WRC mainclass from 2027

[deephouse]

They should radicaly change Rally1 category in a way that could suit many entries, as manufacturers or private teams. Rally2 should be tweaked little by little and not touch in many ways as the formula was, is and it will be perfect for many years.

[saco0o]

i have this especific doubt on the R5s:
if i had the money to just install the roll cage safety cell specs on an Audi S1 or a Renault Megane, have the engine on the rules specs... can i simply enter and compete in wrc2/erc? or its not allowed? does manufacturers need to authorize this kind of thing? do they need do pay? is something related to homologation? cuz theres lots of models doing tcr and ap4 and none are actual factory teams. why that doesnt happens in rally2?

[macebig]

Rally 2s for FIA need to be homologated by a manufacturer. That's why Meirion Evans Mirage and Proton stayed local to the UK and the Holzer Corsa never took off.

[becher]

i have this especific doubt on the R5s:
if i had the money to just install the roll cage safety cell specs on an Audi S1 or a Renault Megane, have the engine on the rules specs... can i simply enter and compete in wrc2/erc? or its not allowed? does manufacturers need to authorize this kind of thing? do they need do pay? is something related to homologation? cuz theres lots of models doing tcr and ap4 and none are actual factory teams. why that doesnt happens in rally2?

You can do that in AP4 and Maxi Rally and some stuff in Spain (N5 I think), but none of those are FIA.

Rally 2 Kit is the only way to take an A1 for example like Ekström did for a few events (ORECA developed kit with a 1,6 PSA engine if I remember correctly). But those things are not on the level of proper Rally2 cars and the whole idea is kind of dying I think.

R5/Rally2 must be approved by the manufacturer for homologation. One example is the Holzer Corsa R5 from 2017, it got pretty far in development and they had built up a proper prototype but Opel/GM refused them the right homologate it.

TCR is also not a FIA ruleset, but most privately developed cars like the Alfa, Subaru and so one ended up uncompetitive or driven of the market by manufacturer developed cars.

[Mary Mary]

Rally 2s for FIA need to be homologated by a manufacturer. That's why Meirion Evans Mirage and Proton stayed local to the UK and the Holzer Corsa never took off.

Small note fwiw, the Iriz was FIA homologated by Proton of Malaysia.

[saco0o]

interesting! but what "homologation" means in that sense? is it "authorizing" the use of a car or they need to actvely be involved in the construction, selling, injet money...?
for example: can the vw group just say "yes, anyone can get a modern cupra small crossover model and turn it up to R5 specs...?" or the vw group kinda need to be involved? idk how that works hehe. i dont imagine ford giving fiestas do msport with rollcage installed for example, i understand that msport (and others) have authorization from the brand and fia to remove everything from a fiesta and turn it into the rally model.
am i too distant from reality? cuz if its like that it seems easier to kinda "hey manufacturers, next R5 rules is for small crossovers, can you all allow models "?

[Mary Mary]

interesting! but what "homologation" means in that sense? is it "authorizing" the use of a car or they need to actvely be involved in the construction, selling, injet money...?
for example: can the vw group just say "yes, anyone can get a modern cupra small crossover model and turn it up to R5 specs...?" or the vw group kinda need to be involved? idk how that works hehe. i dont imagine ford giving fiestas do msport with rollcage installed for example, i understand that msport (and others) have authorization from the brand and fia to remove everything from a fiesta and turn it into the rally model.
am i too distant from reality? cuz if its like that it seems easier to kinda "hey manufacturers, next R5 rules is for small crossovers, can you all allow models "?

Authorisation, yes.

FIA Rally2-5, there's multiple steps of homologation. First, a mass-manufacturer has to be producing a touring car in enough numbers, currently 2500 identical cars in the year up to homologation, and they need to get certification on that from a local ASN. Only the manufacturer can do that. This car has to be accepted into Group A by the FIA, which permits changes for safety and performance tuning for motorsport use. It used to be you could go racing and rallying at this point but not now, because all the 'touring car' series have special purpose cars now, even at lower levels, so in reality the application for Group A and Rally2-5 is simultaneous. The second homologation is to specialise a Group A car into what makes it a Rally2-5, which confirms compliance with those specific regulations. A private company may do this development work but will still need support and permission of the manufacturer to get this homologation because it's an 'extension' of the first, and there is probably protection for the manufacturers, FIA and buyer surrounding the selling of Rally2 kits/cars.

Ford will supply M-Sport with bodyshells and only the components they produce that M-Sport need, they don't remove anything from a completed road car - it's inefficient and not business sense. Other common parts from third parties will be procured by M-Sport. The Rally2 bits and pieces can be sold separately as a kit for a privateer to fit, this is how Polos continued to be (homologated)x built quietly, years after VW noisily withdrew from motorsport. but it also doesn't make sense for a privateer to pay for and rip out needless comforts and technology. VW may have sold/licensed out the design and spec for production of the kit, somebody else can confirm. Privateers also don't have the opportunity to get one or two bodyshells from a manufacturer without that manufacturer approving the idea.

For Rally1 it's a bit different as they are straight up race cars developed only for the WRC Rally1 championship. There is no Group A part. The Rally1 homologation requirements are not public, but if it's like the World Rally Car, the production certification still needs to be attained and the cars can only be homologated by a team that enters the WRC Manufacturer's championship, which is all very costly and requires big commitment. Ford will supply M-Sport with a phone number of whoever manufactures the headlights, windscreen and any other mandatory components, but everything else is up to M-Sport to procure, make and assemble.

When thinking of allowing privateers doing this without manufacturer support, don't forget that the manufacturers are powerful within the FIA and the FIA is not just about motorsport. Many manufacturers do not do motorsport yet a manufacturers' representative sits permanently on the World Motorsport Council, (the approver of ALL regulations), and various commissions and committees. It's not clear who is on the WRC commission at the moment because the FIA decided to keep it semi-secret this year. IMO, the idea that the FIA will encourage the privateer to replace manufacturers is not realistic. Not only is it demoting the FIA 'member manufacturers' presence, but there is big money involved from the manufacturers that do want to participate in sport, and they do not want to be against another manufacturer who gets a free ride by a privateer.

I hope this answer is useful.

[saco0o]

I hope this answer is useful.

that was a really interesting read for me, thanks! sounds WAY more complicated than what i thought.
good post, mate.

[saco0o]

after getting more into how difficult is the whole homologation thing, doenst this (image on the link, i cant post images, idk why) start to look like an option for Rally2?
normally, championships that use this type of car can reduce the general costs when its produced by just one or two brands. or when the rulers/spec for the construction are super strickt, you can build in house and it will be similar to the other's constructions (wait, i cant post the image haha its something like https://www.planetedacia.com/images/...0557_1_6_1.jpg

[becher]

after getting more into how difficult is the whole homologation thing, doenst this (image on the link, i cant post images, idk why) start to look like an option for Rally2?
normally, championships that use this type of car can reduce the general costs when its produced by just one or two brands. or when the rulers/spec for the construction are super strickt, you can build in house and it will be similar to the other's constructions (wait, i cant post the image haha its something like https://www.planetedacia.com/images/...0557_1_6_1.jpg

That is in concept at least more or less Rally1, but given we are talking about a world championship I would find it a shame to make Rally1 into a spec series.