Top 10 best WRC drivers

[djip]

If we're talking about the best WRC drivers we must start from 1973. For example Mikkola, Aaltonen and Timo Mäkinen achieved much already before that.

But if we're just talking about the best rally drivers ever, it's more complicated. Does Paris-Dakar count? London-Mexico? National championships?

It is true that WRC started in 1973. But ERC (and IRCM) which preceded it were as much to pinnacle of rallying as WRC is : It was the premier series, with factory teams and drivers, silverware at the end of the season... and treated by media as such (nothing to compare with the RAC "Manufacturer's trophy which no onee, even in england, was considering). So to my opinion, counting ERC (1953)69) IRCM (1970-72) and WRC (1973-today) on the same footing is fair.

Now you are right. Way back then there were events that were out of these championships, yet very (more ?) popular with works entries by the dozen : Safari Rally, Tour de Corse, Gulf London Rally, Olympic Rally ...

The marathons (London-Sidney, London-Mexico, Paris Dakar, ...) are a different story and -aside from the Peugeeot-Citroen days- boasted different drivers.

[Norm75]

Surprised no one has mentioned Toivonen.
I know he didn’t win a championship or that many rallies, but for me he would have become one of the all time greats if it hadn’t have been for obvious reasons. He just had that quality that I didn’t see until Loeb entered the scene, and was more than capable of beating many already mentioned on this thread.

[AnttiL]

Surprised no one has mentioned Toivonen.
I know he didn’t win a championship or that many rallies, but for me he would have become one of the all time greats if it hadn’t have been for obvious reasons. He just had that quality that I didn’t see until Leob entered the scene, and was more than capable of beating many already mentioned on this thread.

Well, he remains a big what if...he was fast but quite often binned it. He also had a bit of a rock star attitude like McRae or Tänak, that makes him more popular than his achievements.

[AnttiL]

It is true that WRC started in 1973. But ERC (and IRCM) which preceded it were as much to pinnacle of rallying as WRC is : It was the premier series, with factory teams and drivers, silverware at the end of the season... and treated by media as such (nothing to compare with the RAC "Manufacturer's trophy which no onee, even in england, was considering). So to my opinion, counting ERC (1953)69) IRCM (1970-72) and WRC (1973-today) on the same footing is fair.

Now you are right. Way back then there were events that were out of these championships, yet very (more ?) popular with works entries by the dozen : Safari Rally, Tour de Corse, Gulf London Rally, Olympic Rally ...

The marathons (London-Sidney, London-Mexico, Paris Dakar, ...) are a different story and -aside from the Peugeeot-Citroen days- boasted different drivers.

It's just way more complicated to do any statistical roundups if you start combining different series. And I would say we go to a very different sport when we rewind the calendar back from 1973...besides, the topic title says WRC, end of story.

As for marathons, Mikkola, Aaltonen and Mäkinen participated in them and rally raids have been favored by latter drivers as well, such as Hirvonen and Sainz.

[becher]

Well, he remains a big what if...he was fast but quite often binned it. He also had a bit of a rock star attitude like McRae or Tänak, that makes him more popular than his achievements.

Plus the perception suffers from the "Senna syndrom".

[Rallyper]

I think an underrated WRC champion is Björn Waldegård (I gave him the honour of copying his name from Google as I don't have all those letters in my keyboard )
When he won the championship in 1979 he was already a top driver on the international scene since a decade, being especially successful with Porsche 911, Lancia Stratos and Ford Escort. I remember reading on a motorsport history topic that that he would have been the highest scoring driver (and therefore a very unofficial driver champion) in the WRC manufacturers championships of 1970, 1975 and 1977. I could be wrong though, I remember there were discussions about some results. Very good on snow and gravel of course, but good driver on asphalt too, which was not so common for Scandinavians.
Of course comparison between drivers from the 70s and today's drivers are difficult, quite different sports...

Agree.

After the two Sebs we could name Björn Waldegård and Marcus Grönholm in third pos.

Björn won first rally he started back in 1965 in own VW 1500S. It was a big national rally (Rally Bore). He won RMC in Porsche 911 in first attempt 1969.

Victories in Safarirally 1977, 1984, 1986 och 1990
Victory in RAC-rally1977
Victories in Monte Carlo-rally 1969 och 1970
Victories in Swedish rally år 1968-70, 1975 och 1978

[AnttiL]

Agree.

After the two Sebs we could name Björn Waldegård and Marcus Grönholm in third pos.

Björn won first rally he started back in 1965 in own VW 1500S. It was a big national rally (Rally Bore). He won RMC in Porsche 911 in first attempt 1969.

Victories in Safarirally 1977, 1984, 1986 och 1990
Victory in RAC-rally1977
Victories in Monte Carlo-rally 1969 och 1970
Victories in Swedish rally år 1968-70, 1975 och 1978

What makes Waldegård better than Sainz or Kankkunen? I don't mean to offend by any means, I'm just interested to find out what makes him better than his stats would suggest.

At least we can say Waldegård is versatile for having won all of Monte, Sweden, Safari, Acropolis, Sanremo and RAC, very different kinds of events. But Sainz and Kankkunen have also won many types of events. Sainz never won in Sweden and Kankkunen never won a tarmac rally (would have won Monte 1987 if it wasn't for team orders)

[djip]

What makes Waldegård better than Sainz or Kankkunen? I don't mean to offend by any means, I'm just interested to find out what makes him better than his stats would suggest.

At least we can say Waldegård is versatile for having won all of Monte, Sweden, Safari, Acropolis, Sanremo and RAC, very different kinds of events. But Sainz and Kankkunen have also won many types of events. Sainz never won in Sweden and Kankkunen never won a tarmac rally (would have won Monte 1987 if it wasn't for team orders)

Way back then (70's) there was this consensus that the best all round driver had to have won Monte Carlo, Safari and RAC don't ask me why). Very few achieved this feat, and Waldgard was the first one.. and did so multiple times.
But it is true that "ranking-" does not make sense. Waldegard, Mikkola, Kankkunen, Sainz are all "all-time greats", so were many others. As someone said : It is impossible to compare the differeent times. We should just not forget the greats of the past.

[AnttiL]

Extending on this topic, here's a table of who performed best on which rally



I have combined mixed surface rallies into one (Catalunya, Sanremo, Portugal, Cyprus in the applicable years) and similarly full tarmac rallies (Catalunya, Sanremo in the applicable years as well as Tour de Corse, Deutschland etc). Also rough rallies include Acropolis, Turkey, Cyprus and Maroc.

[AE1WRC]

I was scrolling through the threads and since we have a small break to Greece and to keep the forum active let's look at the top 10 drivers of all time now (since this was 2 years ago) ? I like Antti's effort to make his list and Danny but imo Kalle and Tanak put themselves in the top 10 list in these 2 years. You cannot tell me Latvala and Neuville (no disrespect) are better than Ott and Kalle. My list is based on are peak ,titles plus longevity combined (I know Kalle lacks longevity but his peak which is still continuing is better than Thierry and Latvala). Now the question is would you put Kalle and Ott in your top 10 and who would be outside ?