not guilty
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not guilty
Prima facie as it is, america hasn't become a banana republic....
Yet.
Facts: Hispanic shoots black guy in a fight. Only one witness, a person of Asian descent, clearly saw the incident and gave the account over the cell phone to police dispatcher as it happened. Says GZ was attacked and put on the ground by TM and was beating GZ by fists to the face and having the back of GZ's head repeatedly slammed to the concrete by TM (who was larger and stronger than GZ). He says TM and not GZ started fight, not GZ. He says that GZ was screaming, help me (notwithstanding that TM relatives claim it was TM screaming while GZ parents say it was GZ) Evidence showed that GZ nose broken and wounds to head support the story. No physical evidence supports any beating being delivered to TM by GZ. Physical evidence from path of bullet supports only one story: that GZ was below and TM was on top. GZ was in lawful possession of the firearm.---------------------------------- Six women, including one black, finds reasonable doubt and returns not quilty verdict, apparently never reaching the issue of self defense. ------------------Never understood why there was a prosecution, except for the desire of big media, politicians and some other folks to play the race card and generate money and revenue. There never would have been a trial in the first place, except for politicians like Jesse Jackson, Obama, Sharpton and NBC making much so much noise. NBC sued by GZ for making false statements about GZ that pushed further investigation into case, statements that even NBC has recognized as being false and misleading. :rolleyes:
Another fact: GZ did not "win". He has already paid a huge price for defending a neighborhood from serious, violent crime--something which the undisputed evidence showed that he had done repeatedly before the night in question. If this is not enough, there is now a big demand from some of the same folks as before, for a federal investigation and filing of federal charges.
The only really interesting thing that came out of the actual trial evidence was that Trayvon was the one who appeared to be the beligerent racist, not zimmerman.
additionally, and I was stunned to find this, they found a burglary tool in the bushes near the area the incident occurred. When this case first happened, it sounded to me like Trayvon ran off to either stash some stolen goods or some drugs, then he would doubleback and confront the guy who followed him. Upon confronting him in person, trayvon then thought he could "take" Zimmerman in a fight, so he threw the sucker punch and that's how it all started.
The burglary tool is very, very interesting further in that trayvon was busted with a similar burglary tool (along with a dozen pieces of women's jewelry) in his backpack at school previously.
Excellent !!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Quote:
Originally Posted by vhatever
Thank you - I had no idea of this info. This was really a sorry ass judge as well.
So you guys are OK for someone who essentially dished out the death penalty to someone who was at worst, a minor burglar?
Interesting, hope you guys never give anyone the wrong impressed about your intentions, could get nasty.
Facts: wannabe policeman goes looking for trouble and finds it's too much to handle without his gun.
Anybody wonder why his police application was rejected? :dozey:
Donks! Don't make the Americanians feel threatened or else they might be forced to shoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by donks
Nail..Head... :s mash:
Only some Americans Danny :dozey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
You're right, unfair generalization.....
back of Zimmerman's head after he was attacked and the face, taken sometime later:http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HA.7273...h=129&c=7&rs=1
at the scene 3 minutes later after the attack:http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.50346...h=171&c=7&rs=1
Wrong impression??--you mean that while I bash your head repeatedly into the concrete street and hit you in the face, while pinning you down so you can not escape, and being larger and stronger than you, with the potential of killing you if I do not stop, while I am trespassing in a gated neighborhood where I do not live, where a number of break-ins and violent crimes had occurred, late at night....that I am at most, just a minor burglar??Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
yep, it is one of the many things that made this country great. You do not have to allow yourself to be murdered/raped/otherwise brutalized if you have the means to defend yourself. Martin should have went home; he had 4-5 minutes to do so when it would have taken him no more than 30-40 seconds to walk it. Being a concerned neighbor, a busybody , or wanna-be cop are not illegal. Assaulting someone is, even if that someone is just a "cracker", as Martin put it.
Markabilly, pursue me with a gun and let me get close enough to have your head in my hands and they'll be scraping your brains off the pavement, just saying :)
Zimmerman lived in the complex, Martin did not. Zimmerman was a volunteer in the neighborhood watch program along with others as the cops were always too slow to do anything. Zimmerman did not pull a gun until down on the ground, being hit by "martial art style blows".---No evidence that Martin had any idea that Zimmerman had a gun. -------- Zimmerman had seen martin about three minutes earlier and had attempted to watch Martin, and called the police. Police as usual said, we will get there whenever, go back to your car. Zimmerman was doing that, having lost contact of Martin. Zimmerman was close to his car, when Martin approached and attacked him. The "hunter" had become the hunted. Martin could have done what he was doing...disappearing, apparently after dumping his burglar tools in the bushes, but chose to double back and attack Zimmerman. If Martin had attacked Daniel, Daniel would not have been able to scrape up Daniel's own brains from the concrete street---just saying.....and of course, Daniel's demise would have been only brief local news as are many other such murders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
He has a legal right to carry a gun; it's enshrined in our constitution even. And you would really be dumb enough to attack someone with a gun? Save the bluster for the naive or ignorant. Martin thought zimmerman was an easy mark. He wanted to be a thug and he died like a thug.
How would he have attacked me? I'd have stayed in my car :rotflmao: Go looking for trouble and more often than not, you'll find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
He wanted to be a thug, is this because he's black and black people are all thugs? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by vhatever
From superman to mind reader. is there anything you can't do behind the safety of your computer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
What a surprise that those defending the verdict are the inarticulate ones, while those who question it can write properly.
Oh I don't know, go looking for a fight and shoot an unarmed person with my gun and feel like a big man?Quote:
Originally Posted by vhatever
Just a question, I am against guns entirely, I think they do way more harm than good, but what if Zimmerman didn't have one, or hadn't used it? Wouldn't we now be in court discussing why Martin is now being trialled for murder and whether or not Zimmerman should have used or had gun to protect himself?
If Zimmerman didn't have a gun, he wouldn't have followed the guy and nothing would have happened, at worst someone's house may have possibly gotten broken into......Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
But his job was to patrol the neighbourhood, just like in NZ where police don't have guns. Just because try font have guns doesn't mean they don't want to stop crime?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
But his job was to patrol the neighbourhood, just like in NZ where police don't have guns. Just because they don't have guns doesn't mean they don't want to stop crime?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
What a surprise, Daniel follows his own Rule 1: "Rule 1 of the forum, always accuse anyone who disagrees with you of bias.I (sic) would say that though." (a quote complete with the typo)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Really? See above. Anyway, what a surprise. Dunnell engages in a personal attack to bait someone. I like that though, as it proves an old saying: Argue the law. When that is failing, argue the facts. When that is also failing, engage in name calling.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Guys, we want a debate. Don't turn this into anything personal by attacking each other. Discuss the topic.
No, it would just have been a murder of Zimmerman. Just like many other murders, and in that area, only good for a few local news stories. If Zimmerman (and others who were also on the watch patrol), had not been there at all, then somebody's house would have been broken into and people hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
Job? If he was doing some sort of "job", then he would have heeded the advice of the 911 dispatcher who said that they didn't need him chasing people around. The law says you can defend yourself if you feel threatened, which if he was being pummeled then he had the right to do so, but to actually go and deliberately put yourself in a position where you could be threatened? That's the work of a complete and utter incompetent moron of an amateur.Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
What kind of Police officer would see someone (admittedly looking a bit suspicious) committing no crime and then choose to put themselves in a situation where that other person could then reasonably feel the need to attack them?
I can't see any other reason why he would be accused of this other than someone being a complete knuckle dragger and being racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Sorry, what was his job, wasn't it neighbourhood watch? Anyway the advice given to Zimmerman in this situation was probably the best thing to do but given still, usually the job of any sort of law enforcement/Neighbourhood watch/etc. is to prevent crime, not to let it happen and deal with it afterwards. That is what is spoken about here in NZ and i feel it is a fairly good way of protecting a community, Don't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Correct. Except having lost sight of him in the dark as apparently Martin knew he was being followed and took evasive action, Zimmerman was on a path back to his car (which car and house was still inside his gated community) when Martin attacked. No gun was drawn, threatened to be used or used until Martin had Zimmerman pinned to the ground and was beating on him. Besides, the first question the police always ask when they arrive in response to such a call, is where did he go???? Does not do much good to say, well he might still be here somewhere, maybe he broke into somebody's home, or maybe he ran off to some other place out side of the homes in the gated community........Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
I missed out the part of neighbourhood watch where the job of the wannabe cop is to pursue someone who appears to be committing no crime, then to cause a situation where one person feels threatened and attacks, then causing the other side to reply with deadly force.Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
Zimmerman was a volunteer with the local "Neighborhood Watch" busybodies, not a member of any law enforcement agency. :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
Quote:
A neighborhood watch may be organized as its own group or may simply be a function of a neighborhood association or other community association.
Neighborhood watches are not vigilante organizations. When suspecting criminal activities, members are encouraged to contact authorities and not to intervene.
So if I see you walking down the street at night doing absolutely nothing wrong, and Zimmerman never actually saw Martin do anything wrong, then what would your natural reaction be when I pursue you? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Hello??? It is called trespass. The trespass was reported and Martin disappears. About two minutes later, Martin attacks Zimmerman. Zimmerman is unable to make another phone call and it is the neighbor who hears cries for help and sees Martin on top, pounding Zimmerman into the ground, who calls the police while the attack is still occurring. This call also results in the cries for help being recorded by police dispatchers. Martin's parents claim that is their "baby" screaming for help. Others say Zimmerman. The one who made the call to the police, says it is Zimmerman who is beneath Martin, screaming for help. There is a single muffled shot, and Martin falls off of Zimmerman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Yes I understand what you mean, but we have to be realistic here, what's the point in having any sort of neighbourhood watch if they didn't actually try and prevent the crime. How many other thousands of times do you think this has occurred with other people who are protecting there community. I bet 99.99% of these times it's just a couple of kids mucking around somewhere they shouldn't be and then that 00.01% the guy ends up attacking you risking your life, and we have the case we have now. I know he shouldn't have put himself in a position to be attacked but I feel maybe, someone trying to attack and kill you isn't the first thing you are worried about or expecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel