IIRC, in 2009, the car was so utterly awful, even Fisi (who, I reluctantly admit, was doing quite well in the Force India) was nowhere in it. And I bet he was motivated - an Italian, in a Ferrari.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
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IIRC, in 2009, the car was so utterly awful, even Fisi (who, I reluctantly admit, was doing quite well in the Force India) was nowhere in it. And I bet he was motivated - an Italian, in a Ferrari.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Agreed, but no-one was ever going to beat the 2012 Red Bull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
I'm sure they have lots of bright shiny objects at your Nursery to entertain you.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
And lots of little boys for you and your friends to pick on.
What does that mean? Apart from being rude, it means nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Can you not have a debate without the derogatary wisecracks?
Certainly, with those who wish to debate, and can do so without being a part of the angry mob.
Like your good self? My impression is that you are your own man.
We make our own beds, after all.
Oh, you mean 'he started it'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Silly me.
I am married, so am no longer my own man.......
I am quite versed at mass debating.........
:rotflmao: classic :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
I think we like to think we are our own men but it's anything for a quiet life where wives are concerned lol. Yes dear anything you say :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
You still listen to your wife? Fool! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by henners88
She's probably a better manager than Domenicali lol. I simply go Ferrari red with frustration and concede I am the number 2. I have my ways of appearing to obey but maintain a level of satisfaction unbeknown to her :pQuote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Wives...gotta love them :p:
The tune in this thread are falling rapidly .
Given the right car the team Ferrari will have should give the grid fits. I sure hope they build the right car for these two, as I agree at this point Ferrari has more to prove than Kimi (or Fernando).Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
I'd be more impressed if they kicked Stefano to the curb and replaced him. But the fact that they are finally moving Massa out shows that they are at least still hungry. Hopefully with two strong drivers will come more quality finishes regardless of the car, and results should motivate the whole team. Only time will tell.
And I agree with Mia as well. As said above, I'm not going to bother with the haters any longer. ;)
There's always the Italian National Anthem, that's always a joy to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
It's just unfortunate that there are Barbarians and the baying mob who don't appreciate the classics.
And, of course, those who must not be mentioned. Or replied too. Or spoken of.
Or else!
Apparently.
One just trusts this isn't special treatment, and that equality will be the rule.
Really? :andrea:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
let's not feed the trolls ;) :sailor: :kiss:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Nice sentiment, Mr Jote.
I'm not allowed too, anyway, not anymore.
Which is fine, and good. Equality is assured.
The Ignore feature is in full effect.
I am quite intuitive in these matters and I'd be will to bet dollars to donuts your wife is a hot "testa rossa" :bounce: :sailor: :angel:Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
I couldn't possibly comment.
Your idea of debating is that everyone readily agrees with you. Daring not to agree immediately garners a rude and often even insulting response. You havent even been around for half a year, but I'm hard pressed to find any regular members you haven't yet had a go at - except for the other tifosi maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Sorry, but that's not the majority's idea of a debate.
Again, trying to get this thread back on track I would say I agree with your observations. If Ferrari again produce a car that is second or third best next season, at least I feel with Kimi they have a driver who will push for more points than Massa has been able to. It might mean the constructors championship is more within reach if Fred and Kimi are as consistent as we are used to. Stefano is a nice guy or at least comes across that way. That doesn't mean he is necessarily the best guy to be leading Ferrari. Under Todt it was sterile, corporate, but the results came in. Stefano has opened Ferrari up to the media and to some extent the fans, but there is no denying the important aspect of running the team has suffered over the past 6 years. Ferrari need to regain that ruthless attitude and getting rid of Felipe at least shows they are recognising the problem rather than trying to remain loyal to a driver who often struggles.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
2014 will be Domenicali's last year if nothing changes.
I'd go further, and say it could well be Luca's last too.
Whatever the reason for re-signing Kimi (best driver available/panic in case Fernando walked), both Domenicali and Luca have put themselves in the firing line.
The driver line-up leaves no excuse in that department.
The FIAT board will know that.
Failure will be seen as a management issue by them.
In a world where a tenth over means you're too slow , taking several years to recognize the problem is (I can't think of how to end this sentence )........Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Yes , but do you really have the time to lead this team ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
It will take quite a commitment .
It's very sloppy I think. Felipe is a likeable character and they may have felt loyal to supporting his recovery and rightly so. However his often poor results have cost them dearly in terms of the constructors championship and it's reached a stage where they need a solid number 2. Alonso is very happy with Felipe as he rarely gets in the way and is no major threat to Alonso's title challenge. It was made public that Fernando had defended Felipe before the news Kimi had been signed and I feel that is just a driver protecting his own interests. There's no secret that Alonso's place within the team is about to get a lot more difficult with Kimi likely getting a lot closer to him in races. The team, any team is bigger than its drivers so it'll simply have to work out. I think Ferrari have done the right thing replacing Felipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Sloppy ?
No .
Not strong enough .
Mousa is a number twelve driver at best .
I'm afraid I've got my hands full in my current occupation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
It's not easy being Shakira's Lust Object, you know!
Massa should have been gone long ago. The end 0f 2010, for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
It will be interesting to see how things develop next year at Ferrari.
So long as we get Motivated Kimi and not the Ice-Cream Licker, it should be ok on the driver front.
People forget that, even with the Mclaren team against him, Fernando nearly won the title in 07 in a most hostile environment, so I think it is hopeful, to the say the least, for people to think he can't cope with a strong team-mate.
As I said before, I hope the two of them are battling for wins.
If the car is only capable of podiums, at best, then both drivers will be difficult to manage for the team - Fernando because once again Ferrari will have failed to deliver and there will be fall-out from that, and Kimi because, well, he is already on record as saying he struggles for motivation if the car is not a challenger.
Let us hope that the wind-tunnel and the engine department come up with something.
For me,part of the failure to produce a car capable of bossing a championship since '08 is due to the sea-change in methodology brought on by the testing ban, and the increase in simulation development.
Ferrari got caught by being too reliant on the things that worked in the testing era, and had failed to keep pace with the new, relevant tooling which Red Bull have excelled in.
It was inevitable, since up until 2008 there was no need to change a successful formula. But often, a teams strength is also its weakness, and the successes of the system perfected in the Todt/Brawn/Byrne triumvirate are, in some ways, what has led to the weaknesses in the current Scuderia.
For the blame for that, I would target Luca. Happy to Lord it in the good times, rash to promote on Nationality and a politically-fuelled ambition, side-tracked into talk of running 3 cars, and all the while not having the foresight to see that the world was changing.
To claim, as some do, that the current driver line-up is responsible for the relative lack of success since the start of 2010 is both uneducated, unaware and simplistic.
To think, as some do, that the return of Kimi will show that the recent Number 1 driver has failed, is again simplistic.
The problems of Ferrari go much deeper than the decision to retain Massa for too long.
In some ways, the decision to keep him post-accident, where his contributions have been intermittent, if one is feeling charitable, have merely accelerated and brought into sharper focus the current managerial issues affecting Maranello, for had he been replaced by a driver who had contributed more, and had, for the sake of argument, those contributions enabled Alonso to claim two titles (a not unfeasible supposition), then the cracks would have been papered over, but the fundamental weakness of the Scuderias construction would not only still be there, but would be even further behind in the future.
Pat Fry is, hopefully, bringing the team's technical department into shape, and the recent additions should, I trust, help and move the department forward, but while there remains at the head a management which is slow to react, something Todt's team were not guilty of, then there is underlying trouble brewing which will not be cured in the short term.
Todt gave Ferrari a real determination. It was not corporate, or sterile. Far from it, it was attacking and it was confrontational and it was pushy.
Three attributes that could never be laid at Domenicali's door.
But three attributes vital to success.
Todt and co. could see that bigger picture , even with Rubinho's pout in the way .Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Luca and Stefano haven't seemed able to see past the lip , until now .
I can't disagree with anything in that post of yours .
Others have had issues with tunnels but the red one has so far been a dud .
The whole pot needs stirring .
It's not just the wind Tunnel, it's the CFD, the Simulator, everything which is required to be the best in the current F1 framework is behind the curve.
If Montezemolo had real political ambition, the thing he needed to do was overturn the Testing Ban. Fiorano was the Scuderia's main weapon, and the one thing nobody else had.
That he has not even tried to get it back is an indication that he is well passed his sell-by-date.
The problem is that the one man who could have is now on the other side of the fence, at the top of the FIA.
Again, that was a dreadful miscalculation by Luca. Not only did he force Todt from the team, it gave Todt the opportunity to go to the one place where Todt could call the shots.
Not the work of a Machievallian genius.
Then there is the issue of sweet little Stefano.
How lovely it is that the once nasty, boo-hiss Ferrari are more media friendly!
What a crock of faeces.
Todt understood that media-friendliness wins nothing, brings nothing and is worth nothing.
Unless something helps Ferrari win, it is worthless.
So, keep smiling, Stefano, and keep being cheerful and media-friendly, because our rivals love it.
There is nothing to be afraid of in the Ferrari management anymore, nothing that the opposition fear.
The only weapon Ferrari have had is Alonso, but no matter how great a talent is behind the wheel, it needs great management within the team to combine with it to bring success.
The 2000-2004 Ferrari team were that combination, but until Todt, Brawn & Byrne had set up the infrastructure needed, the driving talent alone hadn't been enough. Nearly enough, but not enough.
Since 2010, Ferrari have had a super-talent in the car who has nearly, nearly brought success, Nearly, but not quite.
The difference between 2000 and 2014 won't be the drivers, it will be the management.
The biggest problem for Ferrari is finding the next Todt.
People like that do not grow on trees, and a quick look around the motorsport world shows to me that there aren't any examples to suggest.
A few hours of thought, and this is my suggestion -
The Ferrari board removed Montezemolo and Domenicali, and adapt the principles of the early 90's new-broom, whereby they bank-roll the arrival of a complete, new-to-Ferrari but proven within motorsport, management structure.
In other words, these lot -
http://www.art-grandprix.com/art-grand-prix/key-people
Todt dynasty-style.
Make it so .Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Perhaps son could convince papa that testing is a good thing again .
As an aside , you sparked the memory that Mousa is Nic's charge .
Could it be that they kept the little pouter on because of the chance of a favourable nod from Jean ?
It's not a very sophisticated idea , and not very long term thought , which , I guess , pretty much fits with the overall picture .
It would be fun, if only to hear the squeals from those who don't like red cars about what the FIA stands for!
It may well be that Todt junior had some leverage, i,e - friends in influential places within Maranello, to keep Massa ensconced, if only because he had been there as his manager for the complete duration.
I think the Massa scenario was more due to the inadequacies of the management, having some misguided sense of loyalty, than any hope of getting an easy ride from the FIA President.
Jean Todt has never struck me as the sort to dish out favours based on friendship. Or based on anything else for that matter.
Another potential name -
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2884 ... t-renault/
Anyone else with any suggestions? I would hate to think that I would be accused of not being willing to be persuaded by other views, especially as I am the only one who has ever refused to be impressed by a counter-argument!
Statistically, you are more likely to have an accident in a red car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Personally, I prefer Sea Grey.......
Considering the additions to the team’s technical dept, I can't really see any major shakeup in management before 2015. The team is already fully committed to the 2014 challenger.
James Allison in a pretty generic interview for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMTL8cp4soc
Statistically, you are also more likely to have an innappropriately young, pneumatically-chested goldigga lady in the passenger seat of a Ferrari.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Of course, statistically you will also be too old and too bald to properly exploit the situation and are more likely to have a heart-attack trying.
But if you are going to go.
Man when I turn 60, I hope that is the exact situation I find myself in :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCrj-Nz0JbI
Good at something this season!
Good to see the mechanics outperforming the car, anyway.
That is truely mind blowing! All Ferrari need now is a race with a pit stop every 5 laps and they would be at least competitive with RedBull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica