• Welcome to Motorsport Forums, the ultimate hub for motorsport fans since 2000! Click here to register. It is completely free, takes just a few seconds, and you can sign in instantly with your Google account.

WRC mainclass from 2027

And when the world knows that other major series have more expensive cars, why do they still bring that up and flag it like it's the only problem? The regs are too closed for many. Open them up a little, maybe like more different segments of cars, engines, or power units...
 
deephouse said:
And when the world knows that other major series have more expensive cars, why do they still bring that up and flag it like it's the only problem? The regs are too closed for many. Open them up a little, maybe like more different segments of cars, engines, or power units...
Click to expand...
Different segments of cars is and was always possible, now it is even possible without a serious penalty. There is a reason everybody went for the B segment when the rules first allowed it properly.

But otherwise I agree, the unit cost of a car is not preventing manufacturer involvement.
 
The segment is a big problem and needs to be adjusted because, for some stupid reason, manufacturers are defuncting small and best-selling cars and they are making more and more SUVs. And then potential brands who show interest in series can't compete because they don't make that kind of car. I target Subaru here and now Hyundai with their whining about i20 retirement. Even if regs would have some segment or unit power or even engine allowed and nobody cares and all goes for the same it could be scraped in the next cycle. I mean whoever wants could enter with their stupid EVs, hybrid or normal ICE, or SUV, or whatever is allowed and bring marketing aspect to them. Then no one will whine about high costs, potentially there could be more interest in competing at the top level, more seats, new people, more competition, and maybe more interest (again) at the local level...
 
is EU's resolution banning the production and selling of petrol cars in 2035 still in place? cuz last time i saw, not even hybrids would be allowed. and some recent coments on manufacturers talking again about how "small cars" would be better for EVs.
its confusing and difficult to talk about that stuff. small electric hatches would be the way to go right now, even with SUVs being sold in the market. a shift may happen, so it would be interesting to be one step ahead of that. but the infraestructure is not there and ev racing is not fun. what a bad crossroads eh? hybrids are expensive for competition. these 100mi bucks hyundai and Toyota have in wrc are MUCH bigger than Porsche or Jaguar in Formula E, that have constant financial support from governaments "because greenwashing is good PR". wrc looks to be on a bad position when it comes to define what they will run in the next years, eh? i wonder what wtcc* foruns are talking about THEIR future too. tcr scandinavia is racing evs only. some small cupras and vws look good. theres bmw and teslas too. but should wrc start to think about evs to "be ahead of what happens in the streets"? is this really important? cuz it doesnt look so tbh, but "PR" is everything for these companied.
haha idk what to think, clearly haha
 
0000.jpg
 
hmmm interesting. the best argument i read so far "on the internet" about why evs are not seeling like they thought they would is because most younger people dont have the money to buy a car or simply dont want to buy a car (ideology+uber+bikes?) and 'older generations' dont like evs, so they buy hybrid suvs because of the size of their 'family' and because its cheaper on fuel/mileage, since economics/inflation is kinda bad since the pandemic.
 
Price is the main reason. Everything else is just a consequence.

Here in Norway the % of EV sales is some 85% for the year so far. Mainly cause EVs are cheaper, though it mostly translates in people using the same amount of money as before but getting a "higher class" car. Still even if the sticker prices ends about the same the running cost is much lower.

Since there are many EVs the changing infrastructure expanded quite well and now there are no issues charging basically anywhere (faster charging speed of newer cars also helps).

Talking with my friends around Europe I totally get why it doesn't work elsewhere. Without artificial price factors high end EVs are about same price as high end petrol/diesel cars everywhere (use Audi SUV range for comparison), but the lack of charging infrastructure and the widespread ridiculous myths ("don't like EVs" as you put it) limit how many people buy those.
"Cheap" EVs are still much more expensive than cheap small petrol cars so not much reason to buy those and as you say young people don't have lots of capital.

If situation stays the same then EV sales will go up slowly in Europe. What could happen is that sales elsewhere (China) will lead to cheaper small EVs which then catch up in Europe. But then again now with the tariffs those will be expensive in Europe anyway so European manufacturers will be less pressed to come with cheap cars. So Europe ends with the lowest amount of EVs vs US and China (already the case for both) in the next 2 years anyway.
 
One small extra short term thing about the price.
With the "chip crisis" after COVID all manus upped their prices a lot (5-10k EUR) on 50k EUR cars and most are extremely slow in getting them down again if at all. Yet they all scream about how terrible it is going while keeping massive margins up until this summer. First now this policy catches up on them.
 
I wonder how much WRC actually brings to car Manufacturers now anyway, regardless of the technology used.

In the past rallying was a way to show how tough a Manufacturers cars were, or how reliable, or how exciting, or how sporting, or how innovative.

Nowadays the tough and reliable aspect is taken for granted. But how many people are interested in their car being exciting or sporty ? I guess its single percentage points of the market.

So it seems to be up to rallying to show innovation and that's a really tough one. What has it done since 4WD was proven with the Audi Quattro 40 years ago ?
 
I was recently reading about the Fiat 500, the EC version built in Mirafiori sold less than 5K and forced Stellantis to go back producing the ICE and add the Hybrid one, in order to save their sales. Considering it's a "city car" and the good amount of charging infrastructures in the main Italian cities, that's a signal that customers in Italy (and probably in Europe) are not yet ready for an EV world.

This is a clear response from the market and I'm glad that WRC Promoter is looking beyond saying that they might be continuing with sustainable fuels and Hybrids for the new regulations. Also, we need to consider that in some continents nobody is ready to buy EV. Look at South/Central America or Africa or even India. Who's gonna buy EVs there?
 
but if EU will demand all new cars to be ev by 2035, when should wrc move into that direction? or better... will it? ever?
hearing solid state bateries are on the horizon for cars with double the capacity, fast charge improvements (like, 8 to 10 min to go from 15% to 80%, which they call the optimal status)
 
saco0o said:
but if EU will demand all new cars to be ev by 2035, when should wrc move into that direction? or better... will it? ever?
hearing solid state bateries are on the horizon for cars with double the capacity, fast charge improvements (like, 8 to 10 min to go from 15% to 80%, which they call the optimal status)
Click to expand...

It's more or less like the targets and demands of the Paris climate agreement, we already surpassed 1.5° and anyone have spoken. Money over climate.

Basically the EU rules the automotive industry according to the pressure received by the car manufacturers lobbies (look at where they're offices are located in Bruxelles...) and considering that the manufacturers won't be going 100% EV by then, rules adjustments will come before 2035. No worries about that.
 
I wonder if the EU requires new cars to be EV by 2035, and that sticks and rally cars are built new in 2035, and they travel on public roads for liaison... Does this mean that's a hard deadline for EV rally cars?
 
Morte66 said:
I wonder if the EU requires new cars to be EV by 2035, and that sticks and rally cars are built new in 2035, and they travel on public roads for liaison... Does this mean that's a hard deadline for EV rally cars?
Click to expand...

We're talking about the third homologation cycle from now on, but anyway I guess there would be an exception agreed with the local authorities to let those cars go through the liaison.
 
typhoon said:
I was recently reading about the Fiat 500, the EC version built in Mirafiori sold less than 5K and forced Stellantis to go back producing the ICE and add the Hybrid one, in order to save their sales. Considering it's a "city car" and the good amount of charging infrastructures in the main Italian cities, that's a signal that customers in Italy (and probably in Europe) are not yet ready for an EV world.
Click to expand...
Fiat 500 is a perfect example of what I wrote:
- price decides vs petrol
- small EVs are too expensive compared with bigger EVs


If you want cheap small car just about anything petrol is cheaper. If you want EV (or EVs get directly or indirectly subsidized) you can get Tesla 3 or MG4 which both are much bigger for basically same money.

Nothing to do with "not being ready" for EVs.

Even here with 80%+ electric car sales there are close to zero new 500s on the road, but actually quite many of the previous US-only EV version from unofficial imports.
 
well, in the end the 2027 rules are probably going to be something like "the puma" (where the actual road car is bigger/suv, but they can downsize the 'looks' for it to fit around the safety cell / rollcage specs) with a little bit of less aero and more 'electric power' coming from the hybrids, right? so eh... all this talk here is always interesting and we all love it, but eh...
i'd be in shock if the 2027 rules are not that suggestion
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top