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Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread
- Thread starter Brother John
- Start date
Ivlian
Active member
Doesnt Road Relevance mean SUVs with Hybrid or Electric engines?
RallyX developed this eSUV with the idea that any brand could charge body panels (front grill, rear windows, rear lights) to resemble the brand's identity. So far none joined, but I dont think its an ugly car at all... Fit a Rally2 engine inside and it would be the most Road Relevant.for now, since everything is a SUV now. 2029 with Hybrid or Electric Engines? Be my guest
RallyX developed this eSUV with the idea that any brand could charge body panels (front grill, rear windows, rear lights) to resemble the brand's identity. So far none joined, but I dont think its an ugly car at all... Fit a Rally2 engine inside and it would be the most Road Relevant.for now, since everything is a SUV now. 2029 with Hybrid or Electric Engines? Be my guest
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My question isn't about the shape or fuel of the car - it's what they do with the cars, what is the nature of it all.
Those with authority and controlling the money have no desire in seeing consumer production cars going round corners in the air at 180kph, 6 inches from trees. Doing that outside of rally is not an acceptable public image.
deephouse
Senior member
Maybe it's the image that get when that car end up in a tree completely shattered and brands don't wants that. They wanted to be all the time shiny and untached. Like in video games, when some of them forbid developers to implement that psyhics into it, so at the end the game came out and cars barely lose a bit in crashing.
Ivlian
Active member
Oh, your question was more 'for Jon' and his arguments that the cars "should be road production cars, not tubeframes + body pannels", right?
Got it.
The new cars will be production road cars - just in low volume.
To me, there are no half measures, "cars based on", as Jon says. So AFAICS, it's a question of large-volume mass-production cars that are not suitable for what this sport expects, versus cars that are built for the purpose but in very low volumes. If Project Rally One build 25,000 WRC27 cars, by that definition, it meet Jon's criteria.
He's quite happy and understands there's no going back to Group A, but WRC 2.0 or Rally2 or whatever it is he advocates is the way, but 99% of the consumer car is ripped out to achieve that. All that's left is the shell, and the silhouette of a consumer car. This is a ridiculous.
'But Stan, most road cars have bodyshells, you don't understand.' I do understand. This is for a mix of safety and comforts. Rally drivers don't need comforts, they aren't daily drives. Even Group A means 'modified'. They don't sit in traffic, they don't carry children and shopping bags... etc etc. Rally cars are stuffed with foam, the drivers wear helmets and fireproof underwear and have uncomfortable roll cages to climb into.... 'Road velevancy?'
These new cars will be authorised for use on public roads by the local legal authority, which means they are road safe, so therefore must be road relevant, no? And they're always going to be minimum 2 seats side-by-side, enclosed with a windscreen, with headlights, with dimensions based on road homologation norms.. etc. etc.... these are all the usual definitions of passenger cars that are written into legal texts, homologation and type approval rules, tax rules, driver's license rules... etc.
Reality is that there isn't the market for 25000 of these special purpose cars from all constructors put together - as most people don't need one. They are very purpose specific - that of driving through the forests while wearing a helmet and fireproof underwear, trying to set the fastest time.
Reverse engineer that point, I'd like Jon to tell me the consumer relevance in what happens in this sport, to the point that yelling road relevancy means something
deephouse
Senior member
The thing is, that prototypes with various engines and more importantly suvs are already having their own championship, which is somehow in some aspects similar to rallying.
So the road revelance and production cars model is said because the WRC doesn't need to be just like Rally-Raid to work. Imagine what would happen if manus would really start doing what they want. They would bring already built hilux and buggies to the WRC and race there. And when FIA would see that the championships are almost identical they would not have both being run, but would shut down the one who is doing worse, and we all know which is that.
You can't just buy formula car and go racing in F1, but you can buy a rally car and go racing in WRC.
So the road revelance and production cars model is said because the WRC doesn't need to be just like Rally-Raid to work. Imagine what would happen if manus would really start doing what they want. They would bring already built hilux and buggies to the WRC and race there. And when FIA would see that the championships are almost identical they would not have both being run, but would shut down the one who is doing worse, and we all know which is that.
You can't just buy formula car and go racing in F1, but you can buy a rally car and go racing in WRC.
Nonsense, one's off-road, the other is on-road. Surely you know what a road is.
GigiGalliNo1
Senior member
It'll be just like Dakar. Multiclass/category cars (h20, ICE, EV etc) all levelled up to the same power output and BAM!, we have a new series.
to be fair, rally is historically a place where manufacturers did a lot of experimentation. maybe "whatever they want" is too strong a flavour, but we had great clash of technologies and steps forward in innovation, that i see more "historically rally-related" open the regulation than close it.
and btw, about road relevancy, opening the power technology is precisely that. on the road nowadays we have ice, hv, ev, in the next years we could have other mix, and also hydrogen, so...
and btw, about road relevancy, opening the power technology is precisely that. on the road nowadays we have ice, hv, ev, in the next years we could have other mix, and also hydrogen, so...
Don't be so sensitive about everything and defending them all the time, except if you are one of them, which call the shots at the table
Just saying what it is.I've always said rally is rally, and WRC, WR2C and ecorally could be the same series but for the different promoters and purposes.
saco0o
Senior member
did u miss loeb? hes doing the biggest round of the fia rallycross in france today
skip to 4:19 to watch his heat! super interesting to see him driving very tight against mostly loose racers.
the megane is a prodrive build, the guy on the red car is one of the best rx racers out there, the black polo is ran by a paralyzed guy who is a legend and just won i think 2 races in deutschland. check it out
skip to 4:19 to watch his heat! super interesting to see him driving very tight against mostly loose racers.
the megane is a prodrive build, the guy on the red car is one of the best rx racers out there, the black polo is ran by a paralyzed guy who is a legend and just won i think 2 races in deutschland. check it out
GigiGalliNo1
Senior member
From twitter:
AS reports that Hyundai will be ending manufacturer involvement in the WRC after 2026, and will return in 2029.They'll continue to support drivers in the i20 Rally2 for 2027 and 2028, further developing the car with an evo version
as.com
AS reports that Hyundai will be ending manufacturer involvement in the WRC after 2026, and will return in 2029.They'll continue to support drivers in the i20 Rally2 for 2027 and 2028, further developing the car with an evo version
Hyundai cierra el ‘kiosko’ hasta 2029
El fabricante coreano ‘congela’ el equipo oficial del Mundial hasta dentro de tres temporadas, pero reactivará su actividad en WRC2.
as.com
It takes more than equal power output to make cars equally fast. In dakar it doesn't matter that much, since the drivers have way more influence. But if your car is 100kg heavier or 15cm higher in the wrc, you won't win.
I put this torque meter thingy under "wishful thinking". It will most likely end up with a full fledged BoP if they are smart