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Rally 3 class

In some countries this class will become a factor between R2 and R5 or R4 if it takes off.

In championships that are mostly run on gravel or snow, this will be a good learning 4wd class for youngsters.
 
Is something said from FIA about regulations for the 4wd in this class?
Will it be a kit, as in R4 or will it be free for tuners to make?
 
Sulland said:
Is something said from FIA about regulations for the 4wd in this class?
Will it be a kit, as in R4 or will it be free for tuners to make?
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No, it will be similar concept like R5 or R2 - cars made and homologated by manufacturers.
 
PLuto said:
No, it will be similar concept like R5 or R2 - cars made and homologated by manufacturers.
Click to expand...

Tragic. Some classes could be left to the rest of motorsport industry to make parts for. This class will most likely be for parts of the world where gravel/snow is predominant, sweden and finland have many smart tuners that could contribute in this class, mostly for young and coming drivers.
 
Sulland said:
Tragic. Some classes could be left to the rest of motorsport industry to make parts for. This class will most likely be for parts of the world where gravel/snow is predominant, sweden and finland have many smart tuners that could contribute in this class, mostly for young and coming drivers.
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I think You don't understand the concept. The idea of R5 was to use as many standard production parts as possible no matter the manufacturer and to keep the cost of the car and its spare parts basically frozen for all the time. There is even higher number of such stock parts in the Rally3 concept (thanks to lower performance). This concept absolutely works in R5 and there is a good reason to expect it will work with Rally3 as well.
 
Mirek said:
I think You don't understand the concept. The idea of R5 was to use as many standard production parts as possible no matter the manufacturer and to keep the cost of the car and its spare parts basically frozen for all the time. There is even higher number of such stock parts in the Rally3 concept (thanks to lower performance). This concept absolutely works in R5 and there is a good reason to expect it will work with Rally3 as well.
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"Stupid is as stupid does"

Well, I understand, but I do not agree.
FIA is more and more giving projects to one company as with R4, or to the OEMs. By doing it this way none of the tunerfirms get anything out of newer rallycars. They just have to concentrate on the older national classes.

Possibility is of course that the OE Manufacturers could hire in a firm to make the 4wd system for their R2 car, but in 99% of the cases they will build it inhouse.

The saf thing is that the engeneering capability inside the independant motorsport companies slowley die, and with them many good ideas never be seen.
Like these firms
http://www.tractive.se/Technology
https://www.sadev-tm.com/en/products/4-wd-products/http://www.sellholm.se/en/produkter/transmissionväxellådor
https://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsport/rally-offroad/
Xtrack started up with Martin Schanche in the mis 80s, and look where they are today!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xtrac_Limited

Many says competition is healthy, and with a max price and a strict rulebook, they could compete.
 
Sulland is right in one aspect: current rules (basically since Gr.R introduction) are totally directed to manus official tuners. Official tuners will always be the reference in the sport but besides being more competitive the cars they built are also more expensive, making them unaffordable for many drivers/teams. Addicionally, the number of homologated cars (with R5 exception) is decreasing at an alarming rate, with the risk of most entry lists becoming boring monotype events. More balanced tech rules, allowing a further participation of private tuners, would be very welcomed.
 
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Sulland said:
What is not true?
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It's not true that private tuners have nothing out of modern rally cars. There are plenty of companies making a lot of money out of the new cars. It's also not true that their engineering skills are disappearing. Absolutely not. Plenty of private companies do very hi-tech work with the new cars. When I speak strictly for Czechia and even for the most expnesive R5 cars most of the Fabias and Fiestas R5 here have engine from Vančík company, not from Oreca or M-Sport (even big teams like SRT, BRR or TGS use these privately-built engines). Many teams develop their own suspension (damper internals are free and Czech roads are very specific - for example standard M-Sport asphalt dampers usually don't work here). Pech's team even managed to get their own Mini RRC gearing homologated by Prodrive few years a go.

That you buy homologated stuff doesn't mean the work is done and there is nothing to improve. Quite the opposite, even the homologated car is just a base for further (albeit limited) development but the limits is what keeps the cost from spiralling sky high.
 
Mirek said:
It's not true that private tuners have nothing out of modern rally cars. There are plenty of companies making a lot of money out of the new cars. It's also not true that their engineering skills are disappearing. Absolutely not. Plenty of private companies do very hi-tech work with the new cars. When I speak strictly for Czechia and even for the most expnesive R5 cars most of the Fabias and Fiestas R5 here have engine from Vančík company, not from Oreca or M-Sport (even big teams like SRT, BRR or TGS use these privately-built engines). Many teams develop their own suspension (damper internals are free and Czech roads are very specific - for example standard M-Sport asphalt dampers usually don't work here). Pech's team even managed to get their own Mini RRC gearing homologated by Prodrive few years a go.

That you buy homologated stuff doesn't mean the work is done and there is nothing to improve. Quite the opposite, even the homologated car is just a base for further (albeit limited) development but the limits is what keeps the cost from spiralling sky high.
Click to expand...

No matter the way you look at it, the truth is that in Gr.N/A days you had a wide diversity of cars and you were able to prepare them in different spec levels, according to your budget; with Gr.R you’re limited to a few cars only available in manus specs and prices*, making harder for those with lower budgets to buy them. That’s crystal clear.

*ok, a few tuners can slightly improve manus specs, making their prices even more expensive…hurrah!
 
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