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M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams
- Thread starter Sulland
- Start date
Lol what for?
Fast-Eddie
Senior member
Rally wins could be possible while the Toyota WRC27 is brand new and the drivers are adapting to it.
deephouse
Senior member
Toyota will have best package (car, testing, seat time, engineers, mechanics, managers, drivers, motivation, team spirit, budget, amount of backup buddies). I don't see any other team being able to challenge that. The only thing that could make fairer competition from next year is BUDGET CAP (some may argue, that Toyota could then develop car somewhere else in Japan, but as I understood there is not much room for massive development with these new cars)
Fast-Eddie
Senior member
But the best drivers sit in a Toyota, there will be no one left to even challenge
We dont know the performance of the Toyota WRC27 yet or compared to an established Rally2 or Rally2 Kit car.
Especially early on next year, a Rally2 may be its equal with a good driver. Plus Jon Armstrong is already very used to the Fiesta Rally2. The Lancia team drivers and a top guy in a Skoda or Yaris could also be capable.
I don't want to be too negative, but this is what the jung ones call "hopium" on the internet
(I want it to be this way too, don't get me wrong).We have zero indications though that the Toyota will not be competitive next year. They are testing / developing it for a long time now. On contrast we have seen 0km of testing with MSport's kit
Fast-Eddie
Senior member
I don't want to be too negative, but this is what the jung ones call "hopium" on the internet
We have zero indications though that the Toyota will not be competitive next year. They are testing / developing it for a long time now. On contrast we have seen 0km of testing with MSport's kit
You could be right, but the point is that we dont know.
We may expect another Super-Toyota, but it will be new and issues can arise once in competition. The existing Rally2 cars are proven and reliable and drivers are used to them and going flat-out.
There's also supposed to be BoP too.
Agreed, but would not the only competition be the MSport Kit? Rally2 would not be eligible and I think the BoP idea was canned?
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Fast-Eddie
Senior member
Too late now for even that
Agreed, but would not the only competition be the MSport Kit? Rally2 would not be eligible and I think the BoP idea was canned?
Maybe for the 'top class', but a Rally2 driver could still win a rally outright.
The BoP is the Kit plus a weight reduction, no ?
deephouse
Senior member
I don't see a reason why would Toyota show up with slower car than their Rally2 car. Except if they would do it intentionally to increase competition, but no one is that kind, not even Akio. They don't have reliability issues from entering the championship again in 2017 until today (at least big ones), so I don't see a reason they wouldn't build another tank, which could easily substand rough Kenya. They seem pretty confident about 2027, and if that's not the clue, I don't know what is. The only complaint is heard from drivers, that the regs did made cars way slower than current, but that's the way top drivers always were. They kinda want more and more and faster and faster.
And again only way that other car than their WRC27 challenger could win is if all their 6 drivers will have issues (crashes, flat tyres, technical issues or some kind of penalty). But as I mentioned, the whole package from TEAM have a greater chance of winning everywhere than anybody else.
2027 will probably be boring in constructors championship, but could be interesting as hell in drivers (especially if Tanak will be there), because Toyota have 100% chance of all drivers capable being on top spot.
And again only way that other car than their WRC27 challenger could win is if all their 6 drivers will have issues (crashes, flat tyres, technical issues or some kind of penalty). But as I mentioned, the whole package from TEAM have a greater chance of winning everywhere than anybody else.
2027 will probably be boring in constructors championship, but could be interesting as hell in drivers (especially if Tanak will be there), because Toyota have 100% chance of all drivers capable being on top spot.
Fast-Eddie
Senior member
Ok time to move on as this is supposed to be the M-Sport thread... 
I'm just glad they will still be there... and pray that the car is somewhat competitive and maybe a certain Hyundai driver comes back.
I'm just glad they will still be there... and pray that the car is somewhat competitive and maybe a certain Hyundai driver comes back.
If they find people to pay for them, they could field 10 cars.
But finding people with that money is the problem, especially when toyota also offers drives.
deephouse
Senior member
Again the fact is that will probably not sell any "newly build Fiesta Rally2" (probably they will do it for WRC only and their programme, rather than customers). Highely unlikely they will field more than 3 cars. Also considering they need to make a new WRC27 car and development cost money, very big chunk of money.
maybe sesks. And if the price is actually lower, hopefully a few locals here and there.
I really wonder if a drive at M-Sport is even 1 cent more cheap, since we may know the building cost of a Rally1 car, but we do not know the running cost. With other words Rally1 vs 2 running cost? Might be the same, might not
deephouse
Senior member
This is purely guessing so don't take it seriously, but development cost is way higher than actual cost of the car (I'm talking about WRC27 car, as M-Sport did already get everything back with Rally2 when they develop it, Kit is just drop in the ocean):
-345.000€ X 10 = 3.450.000€
-car cost X number of cars needs to sell = development cost
There is also mentioned that logistics and staff will be limited (what can a team bring/how many equipment and how many people will be there on events).
I don't know if this was accepted, but it kinda is somehow budget cap, which I think maybe is not such a bad idea (pointing at that Hyundai "tent", while their car is begging for better performance).
While there is a possibility that the richer constructors will always find a way to be better, in their plant or somewhere hidden from eye, the budget cap could bring some fairness to the championship.
-345.000€ X 10 = 3.450.000€
-car cost X number of cars needs to sell = development cost
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www.wrc.com
There is also mentioned that logistics and staff will be limited (what can a team bring/how many equipment and how many people will be there on events).
I don't know if this was accepted, but it kinda is somehow budget cap, which I think maybe is not such a bad idea (pointing at that Hyundai "tent", while their car is begging for better performance).
While there is a possibility that the richer constructors will always find a way to be better, in their plant or somewhere hidden from eye, the budget cap could bring some fairness to the championship.
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