What Would the Merged Schedule Look Like?

[bzcam]

I, for one, am excited about the proposition of a merger. I am a fan of both series and would love to see them come together with a deep schedule and lots of cars on the grid. So, anyone care to list what the merged schedule would look like for 2008 assuming they pull this off? What would stay and what would go? What would be the impact?

As a Houstonian, I hope that Houston stays on the calendar, but I would take unified series first. Any ideas?

BZ

[bzcam]

Here's a quick cut and paste of the two league's schedules. What stays? What goes? IRL is in bold.


Sat 29-Mar Homestead-Miami Speedway
Sun 6-Apr Streets of St. Petersburg
Sat 19-Apr Twin Ring Motegi
April 20 Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach
Sun 27-Apr Kansas Speedway
April 27 Champ Car Grand Prix of Houston
May 18 Champ Car Grand Prix at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
Sun 25-May 92nd Indianapolis 500
Sun 1-Jun The Milwaukee Mile
June 1 Champ Car Belgium at Circuit Zolder
Sat 7-Jun Texas Motor Speedway
June 8 Champ Car Spain at Circuito Permanente de Jerez
Sun 22-Jun Iowa Speedway
June 22 Champ Car Grand Prix of Cleveland
June 29 Champ Car Mont-Tremblant
Sat 28-Jun Richmond International Raceway
Sun 6-Jul Watkins Glen International
July 6 Steelback Grand Prix of Toronto
Sat 12-Jul Nashville Superspeedway
Sun 20-Jul Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
July 20 Rexall Grand Prix of Edmonton
July 27 Champ Car Portland
Sat 9-Aug Kentucky Speedway
August 10 Road America Grand Prix
Sun 24-Aug Infineon Raceway
Sun 31-Aug The Raceway at Belle Isle Park
Sun 7-Sep Chicagoland Speedway
September 14 Champ Car Holland at the TT Circuit Assen
October 26 Gold Coast Indy 300, Surfers Paradise
November 9 Gran Premio Tecate Presentado por Banamex

BZ

[Shirk]

I believe all but the street course races in Long Beach, Edmonton & Surfers Paradise would be gone, while I haven't heard of any IRL races getting the axe.

[RacinRandy]

This looks tough, but here are my thoughts.

(1) Tradition rules! When there are conflicts, you have to give the date to the race that has been around longer, regardless of which series.
(2) Both the IRL and Champ Car started out on American soil, so when the conflict is there, keep it in the States. With all of their influence, Japan will have to get a date somewhere.
(3) Also look at the past race attendances and the potential attendances for a unified series.
(4) You do want to keep a good mix of short ovals, super speedways, permanent road courses, street courses, and an airport if there is room. There should be a maximum of 21 races, but 19 is more realistic.
(5) TV packages with have to be changed drasticly. You can start by dumping the rediculous package that Champ Car got.
(6) What are the chances of the Champ Car teams getting new cars and testing before the March 29th race? That's right around the corner!

[994ever]

IMO--coming at this as someone who likes auto racing as a sport rather than a crashfest, death-defying stunt show--these are the tracks I'd like to see unified schedule:

Temporary Circuits:

Long Beach
Cleveland
Toronto
Edmonton
Surfers Paradise

Ovals:

Milwaukee
Michigan
Indianapolis
Motegi (because it is a great oval)
Gateway
California Speedway
Phoenix

Road:

Road America
Mexico City
Mid-Ohio
Laguna Seca
Portland

17 races, over 40 weeks. I have no time for the 1.5 mile Hot Wheels tracks; to me that is not racing, its driving to see who will fly.

[nanders]

IMO--coming at this as someone who likes auto racing as a sport rather than a crashfest, death-defying stunt show--these are the tracks I'd like to see unified schedule:

Temporary Circuits:

Long Beach
Cleveland
Toronto
Edmonton
Surfers Paradise

Ovals:

Milwaukee
Michigan
Indianapolis
Motegi (because it is a great oval)
Gateway
California Speedway
Phoenix

Road:

Road America
Mexico City
Mid-Ohio
Laguna Seca
Portland

17 races, over 40 weeks. I have no time for the 1.5 mile Hot Wheels tracks; to me that is not racing, its driving to see who will fly.

I like it. Just a couple minor changes:

Temporary Circuits:

Long Beach
Cleveland
Toronto
Edmonton
Surfers Paradise

Ovals:

Milwaukee
Michigan
Indianapolis
Motegi (because it is a great oval)
Iowa
California Speedway
Phoenix
Euro Speedway
Kansas (has a contract)

Road:

Road America
Mexico City
Mid-Ohio
Laguna Seca
Portland

Mickey Mouse European wanna be MotoGP type tracks:

0

Nopi Chicks:

Please add them :-p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guh3wC-c7EE

[994ever]

It IS possible that some of the losing side's more successful races could be picked up later (09 or 10) as existing contracts for this year get sorted out or expire.

Well if that is the case you can kiss Toronto goodbye. It won't come back after a year's absence. I'd suspect the same is true of Cleveland and Edmonton.

[nanders]

Well if that is the case you can kiss Toronto goodbye. It won't come back after a year's absence. I'd suspect the same is true of Cleveland and Edmonton.

I'm kinda thinking Toronto could be gone no matter what. No sponsor and they are looking for government help. It's not one of the tracks on the purposed list MarkC is circulating.

The Amigos were promoting it I think and it's conspicuously absent ..... !

[ChaimWitz]

The ONLY consideration for which tracks remain is existing contracts. Which ever side is the "last party standing" is the one whose dates will prevail. The losing side's dates and contracts will be settled in bankruptcy court.

It's very simple, existing venues with contracts will sue if their dates go away. The winning side will not expose itself to that. Some of the losing side's races might come over if they fit the schedule. It's business pure and simple. All the wishfull thinking in the world will not alter that. It has absolutely nothing to do with which races are currently more successful or aesthetically better tracks.

It IS possible that some of the losing side's more successful races could be picked up later (09 or 10) as existing contracts for this year get sorted out or expire.

Starter, what you wrote here is the truth of the matter. The truth also includes the fact that the CCWS races that won't be included in an initial combined schedule are all losing significant amounts of money for either the sanctioning body or the promoter or both. In the end, all this is a business and the point of a business is to make money.

[CARTDM15]

I hope a combined schedule doesn't have a month for the 500.Nothing against the 500 but I would whether see racing than practice & qualifing.

[Cart750hp]

I hope a combined schedule doesn't have a month for the 500.Nothing against the 500 but I would whether see racing than practice & qualifing.

I know what you mean. But come to think of it, 2-3 weekends of doing practice and qualifying also is a good marketing for sponsors and new fans. It gets them time to get on the 500 race day. That's the idea. Kinda preview, or kinda playoff thing.

[nanders]

I know what you mean. But come to think of it, 2-3 weekends of doing practice and qualifying also is a good marketing for sponsors and new fans. It gets them time to get on the 500 race day. That's the idea. Kinda preview, or kinda playoff thing.

.... but, If they would go to 1 weekend of qualifying at Indy this year they could run Laguna. And me thinks that place could make a comeback.

[mark123]

.... but, If they would go to 1 weekend of qualifying at Indy this year they could run Laguna. And me thinks that place could make a comeback.

i agree that spending a month at indy is over kill. HOWEVER, this year it could give the cc teams lots of testing miles and even the playing field. from 09 onwards, make it over 2 weeks - thats plenty of time.

as a side note - the cc teams should be given bonus test days to get them up to speed.

[Cart750hp]

.... but, If they would go to 1 weekend of qualifying at Indy this year they could run Laguna. And me thinks that place could make a comeback.

Sure, Laguna is more likely to comeback. But remember that one reason why Laguna was a dead place for CC because they kept moving the date from September to May, May to September, then now September to May again. So until IndyCar have come to a set schedule or more stable (I doubt it'll happen this year or even next year). Since all teams are now in one home, they should build their exposure in I500 first and Long Beach comes next. The rests of the schedule should just follow. I could be wrong but I've noticed that IndyCar were setting their schedule around Long Beach and I500.

Also, I500 is needed for this new series to regain exposure. As for start, I'd leave May to be all about I500.

[duongrn]

I would think that TG would like to add a the road circuit at Indy to the schedule and not worry about F1. He can make it a Labor Day/July 4th tradition or something.

Also I though I heard a rumor that Indy would like to race at Daytona someday.

[duongrn]

Made some edits. This is just my guess on how it would like in a couple of years. They may even do a couple of rotations for track every few years. I guess that would be a nice problem to have.

Temporary Circuits:

Long Beach
Cleveland
Toronto
Edmonton
Surfers Paradise
Detroit

Ovals:

Milwaukee
Michigan
Indianapolis
Motegi (because it is a great oval)
California
Phoenix
Daytona
Texas

Road:

Road America
Mexico City
Mid-Ohio
Laguna Seca
Indy GP

[garyshell]

I have no problem with the 1.5 mile ovals, if and ONLY if, the cars are setup such that they are not running at 100% throttle. I want to hear the revs go down in the corner. Hell, I want to see feet on brakes entering the corners. The danger does NOT come from the length of the track. The danger comes from the idiotic rules that allow for 100% throttle racing. This applies to any and all ovals.

Gary

[ShiftingGears]

Road:

Indy GP

Indy 500 + Indy GP circuit would be complete overkill. Not least because Indy Gp is an awful track. Watkins Glen should not be lost from the schedule.

[DanicaFan]

The Indy 500 being a month long is not a waste. Its awesome. There is nothing like that month of May. Its what makes the 500 a special tradition and the Greatest Spectacle In Racing. :D

[jwhite9185]

My dream schedule... Weather it makes it to reality or not is a different matter.


29-Mar Homestead-Miami Speedway

06-Apr Streets of St. Petersburg
12-Apr Twin Ring Motegi
20-Apr Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach
27-Apr Champ Car Grand Prix of Houston

25-May 92nd Indianapolis 500

01-Jun The Milwaukee Mile
07-Jun Texas Motor Speedway
22-Jun Champ Car Grand Prix of Cleveland
28-Jun Richmond International Raceway

06-Jul Steelback Grand Prix of Toronto
12-Jul Nashville Superspeedway
20-Jul Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
27-Jul Champ Car Portland

10-Aug Road America Grand Prix
24-Aug Infineon Raceway
31-Aug The Raceway at Belle Isle Park

07-Sep Chicagoland Speedway
14-Sep Watkens Glen International
28-Sep Champ Car Grand Prix at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca

26-Oct Gold Coast Indy 300, Surfers Paradise

09-Nov Gran Premio Tecate Presentado por Banamex

Maybe a tad too long, but it keeps the best races from both series IMO.

[MAX_THRUST]

Schedules can be changed at permanent facilities but street tracks are a little more difficult to move. Honda will happily move the IRL Japan race to the week before or after Surfers Paradise if it stays. Makes it worth the long journey.

My wish list of tracks below....ones that muast stay surely..

1.Long Beach
2.Cleveland
3.Toronto
4.Road America
5.Mont Tre Blanc
6.Watkins Glen
7.Belle isle
8.Michigan,
9.Millwaukee
10.Surfers Paradise
11.Indy 500
12.Mexico City
13.Mid Ohio

As for the rest pick and choose I'd be easy.

The rest could all be ovals for all I care, a healthy mix of tracks.

This is the first time I have been properly excited about IRL/CCWS since 2002. Lets hope this gets done and quick.

As fot Homestead and Stpetes being so close together I never understand that. Same as Laguna and Long Beach(I don't know how far appart they are). Does one area need to races. My choice for Florida would be St Pete.

[nanders]

I have no problem with the 1.5 mile ovals, if and ONLY if, the cars are setup such that they are not running at 100% throttle. I want to hear the revs go down in the corner. Hell, I want to see feet on brakes entering the corners. The danger does NOT come from the length of the track. The danger comes from the idiotic rules that allow for 100% throttle racing. This applies to any and all ovals.

Gary

Indy Cars run flat at Richmond. I heard Danica say so.

[Chris R]

Tracks that should be on schedule from 2009 on:
Indy
Long Beach
Road America
Surfers
Cleveland
Milwaukee
Michigan
Fontana


Markets that should be served either with current or future venue:
South Florida
Pacific Northwest
Canada
Mexico
Northeast
Mid-Atlantic (how about the new Thunderbolt raceway??)
Japan
Southwest
Chicago area

As for 2008 - I don't care too much as long as they get it right in 2009. I'll take whatever I get this year...

As for track configuration - I would think it would be a good idea to move away from the NASCAR ovals - they just are not well suited to truly fast race cars... however, roughly 33% each of ovals, permanent road courses and temporary courses is probably a good starting point....

[bblocker68]

The Indy 500 being a month long is not a waste. Its awesome. There is nothing like that month of May. Its what makes the 500 a special tradition and the Greatest Spectacle In Racing. :D

In the 60's 70' snad 80's, absolutely!

I vote for 3 weeks. Makes a nice compromise. The Champcar teams could use the extra time to setup the car correctly.

[HoustonCartFan]

Here's a quick cut and paste of the two league's schedules. What stays? What goes? IRL is in bold.

[B]Sun 27-Apr Kansas Speedway
April 27 Champ Car Grand Prix of Houston


OK, I live in Houston also and that most likely biases my opinion however...

Houston MSA 6th Largest in the US
Kansas City MSA 28th in Size

My source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas

[duongrn]

Indy 500 + Indy GP circuit would be complete overkill. Not least because Indy Gp is an awful track. Watkins Glen should not be lost from the schedule.


I am 50-50 on Indy GP. I know in Nascar land they do multiple dates on the same track, but at least it would be a different discipline for Indy Car.

I am not saying I like the schedule, just "guessing" would it would look like.

[TeamTracy26]

Based on what I've read on Multiple forums and motorsports news, it sounds like TG will maintain all of the current IRL Tracks, with Motegi being the one that gets moved to a new date. Based on the 3 options that were given, Opt 1. Move to later date (Aug Date?), Opt 2. Move to end of season as non Points Race(Not likely as Champion is already decided no "excitement" to the race) Opt3. Cancel and Re-Secedule for 09 (Again not likely as why would Honda want to give up "their" race).

Here is what I would think would be the Schedule and I've also thrown some Wild cards (*), with reasoning behind why they may or may not work.

Most likely a 19 Race Schedule

1. Homestead (OVAL) Mar 27 - 29
2. St Petersburg (STREET) Apr 4 - 6
3. Long Beach (STREET) Apr 18 - 20
4. Kansas (OVAL) Apr 25 - 27

*Laguna Seca (ROAD) May 16 - 18 (Weekend is open anyways and does not conflict with current IRL Schedule but is probably going to conflict with Indy Festivities, but if IRL is willing to absorb the CC Contract if legally possible maybe re-schedule to week earlier. Current CC Contract might pose legal issues but if it could get worked around, why not add it in)

5. Indy (OVAL) May 23 - 25
6. Milwaukee (OVAL) May 30 - June 1
7. Texas (OVAL) June 5 - 7

*Cleveland June 13 - 15 (OK we're talking about asking an airport to shutdown here, so this would obviously depend on their willingness to do so, and the only way this looks like it would fit is if they pushed the date up one week, which wouldn't seem that big of an issue)


8. Iowa (OVAL) June 20 - 22
9. Richmond (OVAL) June 26 - 28
10. Watkins Glen (ROAD COURSE) July 4 - 6
11. Nashville (OVAL) July 10 - 12
12. Mid Ohio (ROAD COURSE) July 18 - 20
13. Edmonton (STREET) July 25 - 27 (Either Mid Ohio gets moved or Edmonton gets moved, personally I think it's easier to delay a Street Course, as Mid Ohio may have other events currently scheduled so Edm gets bumped a week.)

*Toronto Aug 1 - 3 (First off I live in Toronto and love this race so forgive the bias here, and no need for me to say this race is huge for TO. However with no Race sponsor this is a big issue with Steelback pulling out. This weekend is also a Long Weekend in Ontario so could be good or bad, depending on how you look at it.)

14. Kentucky (OVAL) Aug 7 - 9
15. Motegi (OVAL) Aug 13 - 15 (Based on above, I think Motegi would rather have meaning to this race rather than a non-points event, so this would probably be the weekend to fit it in. But we're talking about travelling a few thousand miles 1 or 2 days after a race, and then come all the way back. I guess the good thing is Infineon is on the West Coast anyways so the trip back is just across the Pacific)
16. Infineon (ROAD COURSE) Aug 22 - 24
17. Belle Isle (STREET) Aug 29 - 31
18. Chicagoland (OVAL) Sept 5 - 7
19. Australia (STREET) Oct 24 - 26

*Mexico Nov 7 - 9(Really late in the season, and would stretch schedule into possibly 20 races, don't think there would be a problem finding a promoter, only hurdle would be how long to run the season.)

[cy bais]

I just can't stand ovals, leave that type of racing to nascar I reckon. It's too bad that nice road courses like Road America, Mont Tremblant and Zolder will disappear in the short term if not, permanently from Cindy (Champ & Indy) :(

As I've said in the past if you must have an oval race, let it be Indy500. Is it true that Motegi has a road-course inside the oval ?

[F1boat]

It is true, Moto GP race on the road course of Motegi.
I personally prefer a mix of ovals and road courses.

[nanders]

I just can't stand ovals, leave that type of racing to nascar I reckon. It's too bad that nice road courses like Road America, Mont Tremblant and Zolder will disappear in the short term if not, permanently from Cindy (Champ & Indy) :(

As I've said in the past if you must have an oval race, let it be Indy500. Is it true that Motegi has a road-course inside the oval ?

They ain't Champ Cars unless they run on ovals too.

[garyshell]

I personally prefer a mix of ovals and road courses.

As do I, but if and ONLY if the drivers do not run at 100% throttle for the entire lap on the ovals. That needs to end.

Gary

[Robert Ryan]

Surfers Paradise may disappear as the A1GP would like to race there. Currently Alan Jones on behalf of the A1GP is putting a submission to the Queensland Govt. A1GP is suitably international more so than CCWS or the IRL and would make the Surfers event something other than a V8Supercar headlined show.

[UDFlyer]

I have no problem with the 1.5 mile ovals, if and ONLY if, the cars are setup such that they are not running at 100% throttle. I want to hear the revs go down in the corner. Hell, I want to see feet on brakes entering the corners. The danger does NOT come from the length of the track. The danger comes from the idiotic rules that allow for 100% throttle racing. This applies to any and all ovals.

Gary

Is there ANY oval on which the *****wagons don't run at 100% throttle?

[Delenn]

If we are doing fantasy schedules, here is mine:

1. Sat 29-Mar Homestead-Miami Speedway
2. Sun 6-Apr Streets of St. Petersburg
3. April 20 Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach
4. MOVE Sat 19-Apr Twin Ring Motegi
DEL Sun 27-Apr Kansas Speedway
DEL April 27 Champ Car Grand Prix of Houston
5. MOVE May 18 Champ Car Grand Prix at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
6. Sun 25-May 92nd Indianapolis 500
7. Sun 1-Jun The Milwaukee Mile
DEL June 1 Champ Car Belgium at Circuit Zolder
8. Sat 7-Jun Texas Motor Speedway
DEL June 8 Champ Car Spain at Circuito Permanente de Jerez
DEL Sun 22-Jun Iowa Speedway
9. June 22 Champ Car Grand Prix of Cleveland
DEL June 29 Champ Car Mont-Tremblant
10. Sat 28-Jun Richmond International Raceway
11. Sun 6-Jul Watkins Glen International
DEL July 6 Steelback Grand Prix of Toronto
DEL Sat 12-Jul Nashville Superspeedway
12. Sun 20-Jul Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
DEL July 20 Rexall Grand Prix of Edmonton
13. July 27 Champ Car Portland
DEL Sat 9-Aug Kentucky Speedway
14. August 10 Road America Grand Prix
15. Sun 24-Aug Infineon Raceway
16. Sun 31-Aug The Raceway at Belle Isle Park
17. Sun 7-Sep Chicagoland Speedway
DEL September 14 Champ Car Holland at the TT Circuit Assen
18. October 26 Gold Coast Indy 300, Surfers Paradise
19. November 9 Gran Premio Tecate Presentado por Banamex

Stick some of the best street (or runway) circuits, with classic road courses, and a few carefully selected ovals. Move Motegi to wherever because of Long Beach and Laguna Seca because of Indy. The rest can stand as is.

Apologies if your race is excluded. Bear in mind, I was thinking of going to Assen or Zolder, so this does me no good. But for the good of open wheel racing.

Now that would be a schedule...... Are you listening Tony?

[UDFlyer]

>> Now that would be a schedule...... Are you listening Tony? <<

Surely you jest.

[UDFlyer]

The Indy 500 being a month long is not a waste. Its awesome. There is nothing like that month of May. Its what makes the 500 a special tradition and the Greatest Spectacle In Racing. :D

Yes, right up through 1994. Check out these pictures of Pole Day then and Pole Day now.

[UDFlyer]

The Indy 500 being a month long is not a waste. Its awesome. There is nothing like that month of May. Its what makes the 500 a special tradition and the Greatest Spectacle In Racing. :D

Here's the Pole Day picture from 2004.

[garyshell]

Is there ANY oval on which the *****wagons don't run at 100% throttle?


Nope, not at this point anyway. But post merger, I bet there will be a lot of folks calling for it. I, for one, intend to wage whatever sort of grass roots fan campaign I can to make it happen. (Yeah, yeah, I know I am dreamin', but...)

Gary