Swedish Rally 2010 - Location

[Sulland]

For some reason the climate is changing, and where it was stable winter conditions 10-20 years ago, it is not any more.

Swedish has struggled for a few years, and it has become more rare with 2m snow, and a thick ice sole under that, what is what the drivers and spectators like.

I think it is about time Bertil Klarin and his team need to start looking for a base further north.

To those that have knowledge of swedish climate and roads that would be perfect for a "New" Swedish Rally - Where would you suggest it moved to ?

[MJW]

Where would you suggest it moved to[/B] ?
Norway

[MJW]

Seiously - Rally Ireland worked cross border - Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, maybe a cross border rally would help. Sure I remember 1990 when it was too warm and rally was cancelled, but things are bad this year.

[Viktory]

Norway

We do get snow in Sweden too, honest.

[Tomi]

i think it should stay in sweden, but they should move it more north.

[DonJippo]

How about area around Falun? They used to have some stages there in the past I think and Falun has been hosting skiing X-country Worldchampionships few times so some facilities should be in place?

[PLuto]

There is big problem - Karlstad is giving money...

[MJW]

You will get good years and bad years, 2002 was ok to saturday and then it started to thaw, 2003 was a "cold year". Personally I like the rally in Karlstad, good base for the rally - maybe in 2010 there will be a "proper" winter. From what I understand only USA has had a proper winter rally conditions in 2008. Global warming/ La Nonia / El Ninio or something is screwing up proper winter in Europe in 2008.

[Jake74]

I don't know if the following is interesting, but I can tell you that there is snow in Nordic Countries, even nowdays. Here are snow maps from Finland and Sweden, the current situation. Maybe you can get a clue of a good snow rally place...

http://www.fmi.fi/en/index.html?neito=lumi

http://www.smhi.se/cmp/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=5505&l=en

I still hope that the rally stays in Sweden.

[Sulland]

We do get snow in Sweden too, honest.

I know, but how far north in Sweden do we have to go to get predictable real winter in February these days ?

No plan of stealing it from "Broderfolket" since we now have our own WRC rally !! ;) Even if I think they should run in the same year !

[Daniel]

http://www.dailytech.com/Solar+Activity+Diminishes+Researchers+Predict+Anot her+Ice+Age/article10630.htm

It's OK there will be another ice age soon :p

[MJW]

How many more years is the sponsorship deal with Uddeholm for Rally Sweden?

[Sulland]

Swedes or other with local knowledge: What about moving it to the Falun/Mora area ? More winter there ?

Has this issue been discussed in swedish media, before or now ?

[Viktory]

No big changes are planned according to Bertil Klarin: http://www.vf.se/Sport/Extra/2008/Svenska-Rallyt-2008/Har-inte-alls-blivit-vad-vi-hoppades-pa.aspx

Rally Village in Karlstad will be used next time. He plans to keep the rally in Karlstad for the coming three Swedish rallies (until 2014). The stages have to be run twice since there are only two days for recce and it has to be done in daylight.

So it looks as if the weather lottery will continue....

[COD]

How think the organisers are? A farce like this would have costed some countries a place in the championship (like Portugal...)

[cosmicpanda]

It wasn't a farce.

And it was one of the more memorable rallies ever, with a high attrition rate, a new winner, and a group N car in the points.

After all, it's not every time that a driver can be caught out by snow on the road in Sweden ;)

[bennizw]

Going back to the area around Mora, isn't that about 90 km north of Torsby? They do an annual skiicompetetion there every year if I am not wrong, and I the snow is often quite heavy. How is the weather up there in these days?

Concerning the snow amount in Norway, I have about 1 meter of snow in my garden. The area I live is around 90 south of Hamar which was the base of RN 07. Hence we have been through shifting weather here too with sudden heat and sudden cold, but the snow hasn't disappeared.

[DonJippo]

Concerning the snow amount in Norway, I have about 1 meter of snow in my garden. The area I live is around 90 south of Hamar which was the base of RN 07. Hence we have been through shifting weather here too with sudden heat and sudden cold, but the snow hasn't disappeared.

It was not the lack of snow but the soft roads that made drivers complain and I'm sure roads in Norway do get soft as well under mild weather conditions so the snow in garden does not really help on that ;)

[Magnus]

Actually FIA have nothing to say about the lack of snow. FIA bothers about safety and about how the organisation is performing.
There are people bothering about the lack of snow though, and they are the once who takes nice pics for promotional use; snow rallies are very good for advertisers and promotion of the cars in general since they tend to stay rather clean, as opposed to gravel rallies in general.
The demands on different organisations is safety safety safety, and organisation. Thay would probably raise an eyebrow though if the USR was run on tar... ;)

[Brother John]

Actually FIA have nothing to say about the lack of snow. FIA bothers about safety and about how the organisation is performing.
There are people bothering about the lack of snow though, and they are the once who takes nice pics for promotional use; snow rallies are very good for advertisers and promotion of the cars in general since they tend to stay rather clean, as opposed to gravel rallies in general.
The demands on different organisations is safety safety safety, and organisation. Thay would probably raise an eyebrow though if the USR was run on tar... ;)

Hej Magnus, it was nice to meet you last Saturday.
I agree with your post here, it is not only snow what counts.

[Ghostwalker]

If i could decide, i would move it to the Sälen area Ski resorts. There's plenty of accommodation there, lots of snow (currently 1m+) and lots of nice roads suitable for SSs. The only problem would be that there are only 1 main road leading up from Sälen village to the ski resorts.

If they moved here they could arrange some combination offers with 1 week of sking+rally for XXXX kr. Like sking mon-thu and then 3 days of rallying.

Bengt Clarin claims that the rally village is a huge success but its not since the rally village is some 80km south of the most sothern stages very few is intrested in driving down to Karlstad to walk through an empty service park. Its empty becasue all cars are up in the Hagfors/Sunne area at the stages or at the remote services.

But if they would move away from Karlstad and Värmland the Buissneses of Karlstad and Värmland would loose allot of money. But in IMO its the Swedish rally and not rally Värmland.


I think they need to choose if they want a proper snow rally they need to move to somewhere where its not only snow safe but to somewhere where they get more then 20cm of snow otherwise they will have to get used to a gravel rally.

[Magnus]

Hej Magnus, it was nice to meet you last Saturday.
I agree with your post here, it is not only snow what counts.

The same BJ! Nice to meet you folks IRL for once.

Maybe I should add also that it is not only promotors that enjoy snow, spectators and the staff within the teams, from drivers to chef, likes it aswell of course. But their and our thoughts are of little value...

[A.F.F.]

Nice to meet you folks IRL for once.



What does IRL stand for?

[DonJippo]

What does IRL stand for?

In real life I believe.

[A.F.F.]

In real life I believe.

Aaha... and what's that exactly ? :confused:

[COD]

Bengt Clarin claims that the rally village is a huge success but its not since the rally village is some 80km south of the most sothern stages very few is intrested in driving down to Karlstad to walk through an empty service park. Its empty becasue all cars are up in the Hagfors/Sunne area at the stages or at the remote services.

.

The thing is, stages and rally village are intended for totally different people. Those who like to go to stages can do that in Hagfors area and those just interested in the "glamour" and athmosphere of the rally without having to hike in the deep snow can do so in Karlstad. So a win-win situation and double the amount of spectators!

[Finni]

It wasn't a farce.

If it was supposed to be gravel and mud rally with studded tyres it was not a farce.

If it was supposed to be winter rally it was a farce.

To my knowledge Sweden is supposed to be only winter rally in the calendar.

The concept of winter rally of course involves beatiful snow benches and icy roads.

After hearing comments from this Bengt-guy my humble recommendation is to give the rally to norwegians.

[Magnus]

As a swede I am obviously very sad that what was once are very nice rally has turned into a muddy mess :(
**** global warming... :devil:
At the same time I belive that the existence of a norwegian alternative makes the USR more safe in the calendar, because then it is not th only snowrally (but one of a dozen gravelrallies... ;) )

[Iskald]

If it was supposed to be gravel and mud rally with studded tyres it was not a farce.

If it was supposed to be winter rally it was a farce.

To my knowledge Sweden is supposed to be only winter rally in the calendar.

The concept of winter rally of course involves beatiful snow benches and icy roads.

After hearing comments from this Bengt-guy my humble recommendation is to give the rally to norwegians.

Thank you, Finni!

And you are of course spot on when it comes to the "concept of winter rally".
Whats the point of running a winter rally on gravel and mud?

The problem with moving the Swedish Rally is that the city of Karlstad and the county of Värmland will be strongly against it. So this is a political issue first and foremost. Then there is the question of infrastructure. Karlstad and Värmland undeniably has a solid infrastructure for running of a WRC-event. Where else, further up north in Sweden, do you find the combination of a large enough city with plenty of hotels and a road system in the area suitable for running a mainevent rally. Some of the swedish forumers could possibly give some answers?

[Jonte]

Imo a move north i Värmland and Dalarna should be enough. We went from Malung last friday and we had between -6 and -10 degreesf vhen we passed the start of old Granberget stage (former Likenäs stage). Up there a lot of stages has been used previous years, around Likenäs and Malung. The stages around Hagfors is normally quite ok even if its warm degrees.

Rally base in Karlstad and remote service in Hagfors and Malung? And a SSS around Sälen? MC i run far from Monte Carlo, som why not do the same in Sweden?

For me I dont really care if they move to Östersund. Ive been to most of the stages they use today in Värmland, so something new would be exciting. How about a special stage on Lake Åre? That would be something!

[Brother John]

Just leave it like it is! Snow or lesser snow, what´s the problem?
Nevertheless we experienced one of the most excited Sweden rallys of the last years. Let Karlstad keep the SSS and Uddeholm airport the service park and everything is oke!
Yes they should keep the the last years stages more Nord from Hagfors like, Likenäs and Frederiksberg and have more chance on good snow.

[Magnus]

Yeah, I missed Likenäs a lot this year, as Fredriksberg. i can understand if Karlstad wants their share of the cookie, but to move the service up to Torsby would do, then you could keep stages like vargåsen, and still have access to the snow safe ones further up north.
Besides; it wouldn´t surprise me if we within a few years will be complaining abt the cold wheather again. It is only one thing that is certain, and that is that nothing is certain, least the wheather.

[A.F.F.]

Just leave it like it is! Snow or lesser snow, what´s the problem?
Nevertheless we experienced one of the most excited Sweden rallys of the last years. .


Did we really ???

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy about the result altogether. The whole resultpage was very different from what we have used to see over the last years.

But I wouldn't say the rally was one of the most exciting. No, the rally was pretty much over at the moment Loeb retired and the final nail to coffin was Henning's retirement.

[Jonte]

Ye
Besides; it wouldn´t surprise me if we within a few years will be complaining abt the cold wheather again. It is only one thing that is certain, and that is that nothing is certain, least the wheather..

True! We only have to go back one year. Then some of the Fords broke down because of the cold weather. In 2006 I remember we having -23 degrees on our incar display on our way to Likenäs.

We cant do anything about the weather (...not in short term anyway). I remeber one year when the discussion was the same as this year - then the weather in Östersund wasnt better. Its more about luck. Make sure that all the preparations is in order, then the competition will be good and good weather will only add an extra dimension.

[Ghostwalker]

COD, ok its intended for different poeple but who is intrested in visting an empty sp (all the cars are at the stages or light -sps? those times that i have been to the full-service sp in hagfors it has been packed with people trying to get a glimpse/photo of the drivers and their cars.

[Brother John]

Did we really ???

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy about the result altogether. The whole resultpage was very different from what we have used to see over the last years.

But I wouldn't say the rally was one of the most exciting. No, the rally was pretty much over at the moment Loeb retired and the final nail to coffin was Henning's retirement.

So you want to see always Loeb in front!
I mean it was not boring, special after Loeb retired! Yes we all know that there are not enough factory teams, for this reason I hope that everyone sits in S2000+ within a short time. I don´t want to see always the same winner! Lesser snow is also not boring, just only 3 stages a day driving twice , thats boring.

[A.F.F.]

So you want to see always Loeb in front!


:confused:

Have you fallen from the ladder again ?

I don'ty care who's in front as long as there are as many as possible there fighting for the win. ( of course, more Finns the better ;) )

I'm saying that when Loeb retired, Mikko hold off and thought about the title more than risking the win.

[COD]

Thank you, Finni!

The problem with moving the Swedish Rally is that the city of Karlstad and the county of Värmland will be strongly against it. So this is a political issue first and foremost. Then there is the question of infrastructure. Karlstad and Värmland undeniably has a solid infrastructure for running of a WRC-event. Where else, further up north in Sweden, do you find the combination of a large enough city with plenty of hotels and a road system in the area suitable for running a mainevent rally. Some of the swedish forumers could possibly give some answers?

I would think the ski-resorts have enough capacity?

And regarding the money Karlstad invests, why don't they make areas compete about who can have the rally? They would probably get the same investment somewhere. Of course, that place should also have the infrastructure as you say.

But the truth is that weather has been on the limit several times last 10 years in the current area

[RicKT]

You seem to of forgotten what the weather was like last year... yes, when i was there last year in Karlstad it was -20 and loads of snow.. this year it was 1'c and we even saw 8'c..

Who knows what the weather will be like in 2 years time..

one this to look out for it what the weather will be like in 2 weeks time in Karlstad...

Anyway...

Im back to karlstad in 2010 what ever.. lol

Rick

[pino]

The rally should stay where's now, they only need to bring service-area back to Hagfors that's all. I too will return in 2010 :s mokin:

[Magnus]

The problem up in areas like Sälen is that the roads are not easy to access. It is one thing to find roads for proper stages, another to allow the public to arrive to the stages without traffic chaos. You need to have stages that have several fairly big roads attaching to them. This is not easily found when you go further up north. You also have to plan the traffic so that the competitors is not hindered by he public on their way to the next stage, this calls for quite a deveploped road system.
But move some of the stages up to the north of Värmland, that I think should fix most of the problem.

[jiipee64]

I´ve been in Sweden on a stage at -35C and +7C and almost everything between. But really the element You allways wait is snow (lots of it) and ice.

So if You have to go north ......

Borlänge hall was OK for service???

[AndyRAC]

Whatever happened to the Jutbo stage?
Anyway, I might be naive, but paying for the right to hold a race/Rally is wrong, the governing body should give it to the area/town/city that meets the certain criteria - not who pays the most money. This isn't just Sweden, didn't Cardiff originally get Rally GB because they paid the most money?

[cosmicpanda]

And Waikato got Rally NZ because of that, I think.

[WRXedUSA]

As much as I would like to say Ostersund, it's simply too remote.

I would agree, move the stages well north of Hagfors and Salen and even the Torsby border area with Norway. Make the overnight stop in Hagfors like they did a few years ago. No need to commute to Karlstad everynight.

Dalarna had much more snow that Varmland this year, but it hasnt always been that way. Falun-Borlange-Ludvika would not be any better of a choice.

Karlstad benefits from the cross Oslo-Stockholm traffic and having scheduled air service near by.


Climate wise, this hasnt been the first year the rally has been effected by warm weather, and it wont be the last either.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Norway

ahha juat wat i wanted to say when i saw this thread!