Robin Miller, SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rundgy]

The biggest obstacle to unification is Robin Miller!!! If this guy would just shut his mouth until everything was done we would have had a deal a few years ago. I think Miller likes the split, gives him more to write about. He's the Conrad Dobler of the split!!!

Kalkhoven wants everyone not involved in the discussions to get out of the way.
"Once again, as has happened previously in the past four years, somebody has leaked a story to the press, and the press has turned it into a tornado," he said. "Now it has everyone running around in a circle. It's almost malicious, and it disappoints and infuriates me.
"We were very close to a deal a couple of years ago and everything got leaked. Then instead of the key people working it out, everybody gets involved in the discussion.
"If people are trying to help unification, silence is the best thing."

[CCFan]

The biggest obstacle to unification is Robin Miller!!! If this guy would just shut his mouth until everything was done we would have had a deal a few years ago. I think Miller likes the split, gives him more to write about. He's the Conrad Dobler of the split!!!

Kalkhoven wants everyone not involved in the discussions to get out of the way.
"Once again, as has happened previously in the past four years, somebody has leaked a story to the press, and the press has turned it into a tornado," he said. "Now it has everyone running around in a circle. It's almost malicious, and it disappoints and infuriates me.
"We were very close to a deal a couple of years ago and everything got leaked. Then instead of the key people working it out, everybody gets involved in the discussion.
"If people are trying to help unification, silence is the best thing."


KK is apparently singling Miller out but he isn't the only one reporting what's going on. Even if Miller hadn't said anything, the other publications would have still put out their stories.

It's not fair to blame Miller for all the hubbub. All of us "Inquiring Minds" want to know ALL that's going on!

[OWFan19]

:grenade:



Pass the buck, its an easy thing to do.


Bad thread.

[CCFanatic]

No, not at all. Who else is talking merger stuff with such great detail? Robin is the only guy who is, and is getting that info somewhere. He needs to STFU, and move on. He is one of those people from OW's past who just needs to go out to the pasture.

[CCFan]

No, not at all. Who else is talking merger stuff with such great detail? Robin is the only guy who is, and is getting that info somewhere. He needs to STFU, and move on. He is one of those people from OW's past who just needs to go out to the pasture.

All Miller said was is that the merger/reunification talks are heating up again. Now, many other news outlets are also reporting it.

Again, even if Miller hadn't reported anything, someone else would have.

[cartpix]

No, not at all. Who else is talking merger stuff with such great detail? Robin is the only guy who is, and is getting that info somewhere. He needs to STFU, and move on. He is one of those people from OW's past who just needs to go out to the pasture.


You were soooooooooooo close, yet you let it pass through your fingers. Robin Miller got his info, from someone. THAT someone should shut up. It's Millers job to report the news. Is it THAT someone's job to share THAT info with Miller? All of this merger info leaks out of the meetings, like water out of a rusted out pail. Maybe they should be looking into who's spilling the beans, to Robin, instead of blaming him. As was said, above, if he wouldn't have written it, it would have still been written.

Jeff

[lele]

Listen, regardless of the press being involved, Kevin and Tony now hold equal responsibility in the demise of open wheel racing in America. I don't know why more people aren't furious. As customers of Champ Car, we should all stand up against this mistreatment. If he really was a brilliant businessman, he'd know how to navigate out of this mess. Instead, his stubborness is getting in the way. No wonder Nascar is where everyone wants to go. Champ Car is being run by a bunch of selfish idiots. And I say that as a fan of Champ Car and NOT the IRL. Shame on them. Robin Miller is the only one who speaks rationally in public.

[Breeze]

Miller broke the story. Obviously the leak came to him first. Had he not published on it others may not have ever known. Who's to say. Really, blame, if there is any, should be laid on the leaker. You can't expect a journalist to sit on a story like this.

[Ruben Barrios]

Only an idiot would blame a press leak for a breakdown in merger talks... Oh, and only the like would be so naive to believe it...

[JasonD]

Maybe CC should plugs its own holes before blaming someone for its leaks.

[SoCalPVguy]

An active and vigorous press is one of the principals upon which our great country was founded. To blame press coverage of the merger activities as an excuse to back out shows the complaining party to be a petty ghestapo that probably has no business being in charge in the first place. With this attitude I sincerly wonder how the management and ownership of CCWS can survive.

[lele]

Since forums are nice to blow off steam and all, what more productive way of sending a message is there? KK and his Champ Car buddies have only succeeded in breaking spirits, messing with race drivers careers and blowing money. This press excuse is so tired and unimaginative. Really.

[sanguin]

Since forums are nice to blow off steam and all, what more productive way of sending a message is there? KK and his Champ Car buddies have only succeeded in breaking spirits, messing with race drivers careers and blowing money. This press excuse is so tired and unimaginative. Really.

Really? then why are you here?

Robin is a hack who has done more harm than good for OW by writing that article, IMO.

LB is still a CC event with DPO1 turbos and talented drivers that aren't moving chicanes.

see ya.

[cartpix]

Really? then why are you here?

Robin is a hack who has done more harm than good for OW by writing that article, IMO.

LB is still a CC event with DPO1 turbos and talented drivers that aren't moving chicanes.

see ya.

It's real easy to character assassinate someone, not here to defend themselves, behind the anonymity of the Internet. You seem to have more of an agenda, against Miller, than you claim he has against Champ Car.

You, sanguin, are a hack & have done more harm, than good, to your credibility.

Jeff

[lele]

I agree with CARTPIX. Robin Miller has champions the best for open wheel racing. He praises and criticizes both sides. Blaming him is like falling prey to KK's spin. It just lacks sense.

[Chaparral66]

Really? then why are you here?

Robin is a hack who has done more harm than good for OW by writing that article, IMO.

LB is still a CC event with DPO1 turbos and talented drivers that aren't moving chicanes.

see ya.

Miller is a journalist whose job is to find out what is truth and what is fiction, and report the truth to the public. And I don't care what anyone says, everybody expects to read about a story like this to find out what is going on. Since most everyone here has had a comment of some kind about Miller, I have to assume most of you read his columns. It doesn't matter if TG and KK find his reporting annoying, that is his job, and he does it well. And as others have said here, as Miller wrote about these talks, so did ESPN.com and IndyStar.com, to name a few. So don't anyone fool themselves into thinking that Robin Miller is the only one looking into this. Save your wrath for The Amigos and Tony George if they fail once more to reach an agreement. I'm sure you all will read Miller again to get the details if that happens.

[lele]

Perfectly said, Chaparral66.

[cartpix]

Even my local ABC affiliate had 2 or 3 sentences with both CC & IRL logos on the screen. They said talks have stalled. Go figure, I guess they read Robin's column.

Jeff

[call_me_andrew]

I haven't been around lately. Did I miss something imporant?

[clydekart]

Miller is not a very good journalist from what I have seen. He thinks he has wit and knows everyone in racing. In reality, he is an average writer with a big ego who is not always right. I prefer someone who reports facts and nurtures close relationships with key individuals in order to get the facts correct.

[Ruben Barrios]

Robin has been around open wheel cars longer than 70% of the amigos... He has more credibility that the amigos and Tony Geroge (and brains too), and certainly much more credibility that anonymous internet boot lickers...

[Alexamateo]

Robin Miller's kind of like my local paper, the liberal's think it's too conservative and the conservative's think it's too liberal, so I'm thinking they got it right.

Robin Miller makes partisans on both sides angry at time, so I'm guessing he get's it right more times than not.

[Chaparral66]

Robin Miller's kind of like my local paper, the liberal's think it's too conservative and the conservative's think it's too liberal, so I'm thinking they got it right.

Robin Miller makes partisans on both sides angry at time, so I'm guessing he get's it right more times than not.

Excellent analogy. If Miller is pissing off both sides in this conflict, he probably got it right. Does he have an ego? Sure, name me one person in the media who doesn't. But that ego is nutrured by getting a big story out first, and getting it right, by having well placed sources and having those sources confirmed by others. As a journalist, Miller's job is not to write what the fans want him to write, his job is to get the truth. And offer an informed opinion, which what many in this forum certainly try to do. If you don't like what he has to say, then tell us why. But to use your dislike of what he writes as a license to dismiss him as inaccurate? That goes too far.

[garyshell]

Chaparral66,

I think it could be argued that there is a distinct difference between a journalist and an editorialist (is that a word??? but you get the point).

By offering an opinion, you are no longer a journalist per se. While I do think that most of the time Robin has gotten the story right, I also think that Robin is careful to make sure the story includes him. There is a sly self promotion in his delivery of the story. One that takes him beyond the role of "journalist".

Gary

[FerrrariF1]

Miller broke the story. Obviously the leak came to him first. Had he not published on it others may not have ever known. Who's to say. Really, blame, if there is any, should be laid on the leaker. You can't expect a journalist to sit on a story like this.

The leak is Tony Cottman....Cottman has been Miller's inside source in Champcar for several years. Miller knew exactly step by step of Cottman's quitting, his deal with the IRL, his dinner with George last year, Cottman trying to convince Champcar in keeping May open, Cottman wanting Champcar to brings 8 drivers to the 2008 Indy 500, KK and GF trying to keep Cottman and Cottman rejecting the offer. Now all this last ditch effort to merge for 2008. Well I am more convinced then ever that Cottman is also responsible for the majority of leaks to go right to his buddy Miller. Miller through Cottman has become the IRL voice in the media. Miller is doing everything in his power to make sure the 2008 Champcar season doesn't take place and making sure that any merger doesn't happen. Miller doesn't want one series he wants to destroy Champcar for his own personal reasons.

[FerrrariF1]

Robin has been around open wheel cars longer than 70% of the amigos... He has more credibility that the amigos and Tony Geroge (and brains too), and certainly much more credibility that anonymous internet boot lickers...

Let's see there are three owners of Champcar. KK, DP and KK....How does that equate to 70%? PG is not an owners of Champcar and hasn't been for several years selling out to DP.

I do not agree with Miller's love for open wheeled racing. Miller for the past year has done his best not to help unifying but bent on the destruction of Champcar. Miller has written plenty of lies and has taken facts and twisted them. His latest was the claim of an offer for chassis and engines made to Champcar which even Tony George denied. The offer was not made to Champcar but to individual teams. The deal was not for engines but for one new and one used chassis and required a two year contract from any team that accepted the offer. Miller lied about Walker's statements last year which Walker went on record. If Miller reported the facts such as IndyStar has done in this chase it is one thing but he takes one piece of information (never mentiones his source) the turned into a National Enquier type of article. Miller isn't a reporter but a rumour monger. He is hell bent on the destruction of Champcar for his own personal gain.

Also Cottman was his inside source within Champcar and now turning out to be his inside source at the IRL. Why is it that the people within the IRL and Champcar want to be left alone and work on whatever they may be working while Miller is hell bent on making sure it doesn't happen? Within the last several days people within both camps have said everytime we get close the media dashes any progress?

[EagleEye]

Miller is a journalist whose job is to find out what is truth and what is fiction, and report the truth to the public. And I don't care what anyone says, everybody expects to read about a story like this to find out what is going on. Since most everyone here has had a comment of some kind about Miller, I have to assume most of you read his columns. It doesn't matter if TG and KK find his reporting annoying, that is his job, and he does it well. And as others have said here, as Miller wrote about these talks, so did ESPN.com and IndyStar.com, to name a few. So don't anyone fool themselves into thinking that Robin Miller is the only one looking into this. Save your wrath for The Amigos and Tony George if they fail once more to reach an agreement. I'm sure you all will read Miller again to get the details if that happens.


Can I second this?

[Chaparral66]

Chaparral66,

I think it could be argued that there is a distinct difference between a journalist and an editorialist (is that a word??? but you get the point).

By offering an opinion, you are no longer a journalist per se. While I do think that most of the time Robin has gotten the story right, I also think that Robin is careful to make sure the story includes him. There is a sly self promotion in his delivery of the story. One that takes him beyond the role of "journalist".

Gary

Miller is a columnist for SPEEDTV.com, as he was for the Indy Star when he worked there. He is definitely a journalist. He has important contacts and sources that he makes use of when he breaks stories like the meetings between CCWS and the IRL. He is free to editorialize (give his informed opinion) as he sees fit. In that function, he is like many columnists who cover many sports for sports media all over the country from USA Today to ESPN to Sports Illustrated to Road & Track. There is no hyprocracy, no double standard, no conflict of duty as a writer in what Miller does. If you read Peter King for his informed opinion on football in SI, then it shouldn't be hard to understand what Robin Miller does.

[Chaparral66]

Can I second this?

Why, certainly.

[garyshell]

EagleEye and Chaparral66,

I still respectfully disagree. I distinctly remember from my journalism classes that there was a line clearly drawn between a journalist and a columnist or editorialist.

Let me illustrate:

American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html)
Journalist:
n.

One whose occupation is journalism.[/*:m:m5f6dpy2]
One who keeps a journal.[/*:m:m5f6dpy2]

and this:


American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html)
Journalism:
n.

The collecting, writing, editing, and presenting of news or news articles in newspapers and magazines and in radio and television broadcasts.[/*:m:m5f6dpy2]
Material written for publication in a newspaper or magazine or for broadcast.[/*:m:m5f6dpy2]
The style of writing characteristic of material in newspapers and magazines, consisting of direct presentation of facts or occurrences with little attempt at analysis or interpretation.[/*:m:m5f6dpy2]
Newspapers and magazines.[/*:m:m5f6dpy2]
An academic course training students in journalism.[/*:m:m5f6dpy2]
Written material of current interest or wide popular appeal.[/*:m:m5f6dpy2]

I am not trying to denigrate what Robin is doing. As I said before, I think he has been on the mark most of the time. But to be clear, he is NOT a journalist in the strict definition of the word. He is an editorialist:


American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html)
Editorialist
n. One who writes or presents editorials.


No less a noble profession, just a DIFFERENT one. My only beef is that too often Robin pretends to be a journalist.

I was the page two (editorial page) editor of my high school newspaper. And why was I given that role? Because my journalistic attempts too often crossed the line into editorialism!
Gary

[cartpix]

Let's see there are three owners of Champcar. KK, DP and KK....How does that equate to 70%? PG is not an owners of Champcar and hasn't been for several years selling out to DP.



Really? Do you have a link for the rest of the class, to see? Or are you just talking out your ****, AGAIN! How many of the 4 years are several?


I do not agree with Miller's love for open wheeled racing. Miller for the past year has done his best not to help unifying but bent on the destruction of Champcar.

But I didn't think you wanted unification.


Miller has written plenty of lies and has taken facts and twisted them.

This means alot from a guy who twists, spins, & otherwise ignores facts.



He is hell bent on the destruction of Champcar for his own personal gain.



And that gain would be??? You seem to give Robin an awful lot of power. If Miller can single handedly destroy Champ Car, they must be in worse shape, than people are making them out to be.

Jeff

[Chaparral66]

To Garyshell:

OK, when have you seen many jobs, particularly in the media, that follows a strict dictionary definition? Having said that, Robin Miller, like most reporters, multi-task. Which simply means he does both simple reporting and editorial writing, often within the same article. Beat reporters, which is what Robin Miller is in the most basic of terms, are often called upon to offer their informed opinion in their articles. Can he be just a strict reporter, just giving the simple facts of a story? Sure he can, and he has. But SPEEDTV.com recognizes that few people are as tuned into and connected to open wheel racing as Robin Miller is, for going on over 40 years. Robin Miller is an acredited journalist who uses his reporter's skills to give factual evidence to support his opinions, and he does that better than most. You may not agree with him in what he says, as is your right. But that, in and of itself, does nothing to take away from his credentials as a qualified journalist, who is also a columnist who gives his viewpoint. Many journalists today do both, look in virtually in any newspaper or magazine.

I respect your background as a student of journalism in high school. I was editor of my college yearbook for two years. But I was also a newspaper photographer and reporter for a local newspaper for 11 years, and I perform those duties for a racing magazine to this day. In school we learn what the ideal of a certain profession is, then when we get a job in that profession, we then learn what the job has evolved into. Robin Miller is no different from just about any journalist you've read. His job is consistent with any other media outlet.

[indycool]

At SPEEDtv.com, they do not present Robin's stuff like this as REPORTING. They present it as COMMENTARY. It is the difference between a reporter and a columnist and, IMO, it's presented correctly.

Miller answered KK's blaming of the media on several interviews around Indy, saying in '06 Gentilozzi leaked merger talks to Autoweek and Miller himself had talked to KK a number of times last week. Last night, on Channel 6 in Indy, he said KK "couldn't keep his lies straight."

Indeed, it would appear he can't by his first comments when the initial Miller commentary came out that were something like, "No offer has been made. We haven't seen anything in writing." That since has been edited out in the few places it appeared besides crash.net, which expanded it to include another KK quote that came much later.

When Miller talked to CC car owners, he found they knew nothing of the talks. The CC owners were keeping TG's offer away from them, IMO, because they already knew that TG had announced that TEAMS program of $1.2 million subsidy per car last fall and that some of the teams were considering it, most notably Walker and Haas. With the offer out in public to the owners, it diminishes their leverage in the discussions. THAT's why KK is POed.

[Colt21]

The biggest obstacle to unification is Robin Miller!!! If this guy would just shut his mouth until everything was done we would have had a deal a few years ago. I think Miller likes the split, gives him more to write about. He's the Conrad Dobler of the split!!!

Kalkhoven wants everyone not involved in the discussions to get out of the way.
"Once again, as has happened previously in the past four years, somebody has leaked a story to the press, and the press has turned it into a tornado," he said. "Now it has everyone running around in a circle. It's almost malicious, and it disappoints and infuriates me.
"We were very close to a deal a couple of years ago and everything got leaked. Then instead of the key people working it out, everybody gets involved in the discussion.
"If people are trying to help unification, silence is the best thing."


re·port·er ri-pawr-ter, - 1.a person who reports. 2.a person employed to gather and report news, as for a newspaper, wire service, or television station. 3.a person who prepares official reports, as of legal or legislative proceedings.



Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006 re·port·er (rĭ-pôr'tər, -pōr'-) n.

A writer, investigator, or presenter of news stories.[/*:m:297kc7es]
Law A person who is authorized to write and issue official accounts of judicial or legislative proceedings.[/*:m:297kc7es]

[Chaparral66]

[quote="indycool"]At SPEEDtv.com, they do not present Robin's stuff like this as REPORTING. They present it as COMMENTARY. It is the difference between a reporter and a columnist and, IMO, it's presented correctly.



That's true, the catagory where you can find most of Miller's articles is under SPEEDTV.com commentary section. But not all. When Miller reports a breaking story, it's usually on the racing news section of the site, such as in the Champ Car or Indy Car news section. When he writes an opinion piece on what's happening in the sport, that is what appears in the commentary section. As I have said, Miller performs both functions on the site. There is no questioning his reporter credentials, or his prowess as a columnist. But when Miller says, "SPEEDTV.com has learned", that usually means a straight reporting piece.