Under Age Drinkers

[Hazell B]

The government has today announced yet another crack down and new laws for under age drinkers in the UK.

All hot air, of course. It's just another case of sounding like they're introducing something that'll solve a problem, but that's actually going to make no difference at all :mark:

Over the past year or so myself and my neighbours have called the police dozens and dozens of times about kids drinking (often from entire crates of Stella they've bought!) either on the riverbank outside my home or at the house at the end of the street, which is rented to an 18 year old with no brain and a drink problem. The police have only turned up ONCE from all those calls.

They openly buy booze at a shop nearby, which has never been police checked despite all of us complaining repeatedly. Some of these children are perhaps only fourteen when they buy the stuff. Most might be 17, but are more likely 16 as I've never seen any of them on anything but a push bike.

Good old Brit government, they'll save the day they say. Perhaps they should first consider adding to the police numbers before inventing yet more work for the poor bobby ..... :(

Rant over. It would have been a full blown rant, but I'm tired after being kept awake late last night by under age drinkers at the end of the street :mark:

[Drew]

It's not really going to solve anything. The government has to sort out why teenagers drink, not just ban it.

How many people here have drunk underage in the local park or at parties? I know I have, I wouldn't really class myself a criminal either for doing it.

[Erki]

Huh? I thought it was fairly normal for teenagers to drink themselves into delirium. :confused: Everyone seems to be so proud of their drinking adventures so I don't think there's anything to be surprised of..

[MrJan]

Sadly you can't do much about it. The police won't put some noisy kids at the top of their priorities and the Government are more likely to invest in schools and the NHS.

As for banning it there isn't much point. To be honest I think it's easier for kids to get drugs than to buy booze so banning drinking will just amplify drugs use amongst the young.

[Rudy Tamasz]

I'd rather have the gov't sit and do nothing than pretend doing something because these guys are useless anyway. They will only waste taxpayers money.

I observed how city gov't tried to crackdown on underage drinking when I lived in Illinois. First they bought a pretty expensive armored vehicle and used it... to deliver subpoenas to the owners of the bars where there were alleged cases of underage drinking. Then they had reports that teens were seen drinking in a park. instead of sending an extra patrol car they erased the park. And so on. Oh, the perennial wisdom of the government!

[Dave B]

Laws schmores. As already posted, you can pass all the laws you like but if there's nobody around to enforce them then you'll fail. Miserably.

The opposition aren't much better, Cameron's recent idea of adding 10p to the price of a pint won't solve anything. Getting ratarsed would cost a teenager an extra quid or two - hardly likely to put them off.

[maxu05]

Take them all to Octoberfest, get them so drunk they puke, then they may stop drinking. It didn't work with me, but it sounds good in theory. :beer: :beer: :laugh:

[L5->R5/CR]

It's not really going to solve anything. The government has to sort out why teenagers drink, not just ban it.

How many people here have drunk underage in the local park or at parties? I know I have, I wouldn't really class myself a criminal either for doing it.

They are bored.

There are two types of under aged drinkers in my experience.

There is the less common type, more frequently found in rural areas, that drink, because that is what their mothers, fathers, grandfathers, and so on were able to drink at a certain age so they just do it, sort of a right of passage kind of thing.

Then there are the kids in the suburbs with parents that work a ton that have lots of their parents money to spend but "nothing" to do. These are the kids that drink and do drugs just to do something. It might sound stupid, but I knew a lot of these types when I was in highschool, I flat out asked them why the would get flat out drunk on the weekends, the majority responded "we just do, I mean, it is something to do, I guess it is fun".

I didn't drink much when I was young, and I still don't, now that I am of legal age. Alcohol is too expensive to consume in large quantities at one time. That money can be spent elsewhere and provide far more enjoyment than getting flat out drunk.

[SEATFreak]

Sadly you can't do much about it.

You start a whole merchandise industry based on that saying y'know! ;)

Seriously though, it seems a lot of the time certain people have all the answers like matters of state like political ones; that is until it comes to serious matters where it affects them. Then they seem all to eager to wash their hands of it and write it off as something "you cannot do much about".

How can people say their really is absolutely no possibility ever of finding a soluton to the problem; whever it might be? C'mon, surely one has to eventually emerge; even if it takes months or years for someone to find what side to the problem which when tackled would yield the best results.

Drew suggested tackling why. L5->R5/CR suggested boredom with the main type being those who drinks because they have so much time and money yet so little to do. I know the ones L5 means. The ones I can't believe do things because they are a genuine social nuisance. Those who are reduced to a bus shelter or something for their latenight social hangout with their only means of comfort it seems a can of lager or a bottle of alcopop because they have literally no place to call their own.

So what can we do about that? Is it really as impossible as you think for these kids to be asked what they like to do as an interest and put on some project. So if a kid likes doing up cars put together a project that takes old bangers and does them up. Why not? Are old bangers expensive to buy?

The Maren Trust here in South Tyneside did something similar. Except they refurbused a boat or something.

Bored? Give em activities that stimulates their brain and makes them feel valued.

[Drew]

Of course things are a little different in every country.

I think there are 4 main reasons in the UK.
1) Teenagers want to have fun,
2) Teenagers have little real confidence,
3) Teenagers have nothing else to do,
4) Peer pressure.

I'd have to say 1 and 2 applied to me. We had other things to do we had skate parks, parks, playstations and that. Unfortunetly some places don't have that and that's when things get violent.

A problem with a project car is that it'll mainly be done by people that aren't old enough to drive and as soon as they fix it up, what are they gonna do? The project idea is good, it just has to be very un British, it has to be a relaxed environment.

[LotusElise]

There are existing laws which are meant to cover this - if those were actually applied, then there wouldn't be such a problem. Trouble is, there are so many factors in this: it is possible to fine shopkeepers and pubs who sell to under-agers, but then the teens will just get older friends or their parents to buy their drink for them. They might even steal it. I also think that shopkeepers would prefer not to provide the alcohol, but they are intimidated.

Certain areas where I live which supposedly suffer from this problem have now been made "dispersal zones". This means that anyone congregating there in groups of more than two is moved on. This doesn't work and gets people's backs up - the police often go after soft targets like people sitting eating M&S sandwiches on a wall too close together.

As Hazell says, the police do not have the manpower or wherewithal to enforce a specific ban on public underage drinking. They can't even deal with it as a "breach of the peace" effectively.

The only answer I can see is banning outdoor alcohol consumption, like in Sweden. The British mentality is not ready for relaxing the laws yet.

[jso1985]

The only answer I can see is banning outdoor alcohol consumption, like in Sweden. The British mentality is not ready for relaxing the laws yet.

Worked here in Bolivia too. Underage drinking still exists though but the rate has dropped like 50% since the law was passed in 1992, and it also did wonders to drop rates on crime, street fights and alcohol-induced car accidents.

[LeonBrooke]

I'm convinced the best thing is to raise the drinking age back up to 20. I don't think many people over 20 would be willing to buy alcohol for youths. I have no idea why they lowered it to 18 in the first place.

Banning public consumption is the answer to a number of problems, in my opinion - they've done it in central Auckland and it's great.

[BDunnell]

It's not really going to solve anything. The government has to sort out why teenagers drink, not just ban it.

How many people here have drunk underage in the local park or at parties? I know I have, I wouldn't really class myself a criminal either for doing it.

Me neither.

The other problem is that local authorities, in whom powers relating to licensing laws are vested, are useless at enforcing the rules. In the small town I come from, there is a problem with under-age drinking. Everyone knows the off-licence and the pub that are major parts of the problem. Does anything ever get done? No, and it's not because of a lack of police, because the measures required to deal with it would not require a large number of police officers. There seems to be no will to use the legal mechanisms at the authorities' disposal.

[Powered by Cosworth]

I drink underage. Usually just me and my mates with a crate of Fosters and a BBQ. We relax in a field in the summer sun until the evening. Tidy up and go home.

It's just the chavvy kinds that spoil it the responsable ones :/

[Hazell B]

I think there are 4 main reasons in the UK.
1) Teenagers want to have fun,
2) Teenagers have little real confidence,
3) Teenagers have nothing else to do,
4) Peer pressure.



Totally agree with that list. Problem is that they want to have fun yet on the whole have no respect at all for any other living being while they're having that fun. Bottles are simply thrown at the nearest object they can hit, to show off to their mates. No matter that the object happens to be a car somebody's worked hard to buy.

As them having nothing else to do - they just think that. They have far, far more than I had to do only a few years ago when I was their age. They also have more money to do those things! Of course, the ones who set fire to the rugby club's gear, vandalised the youth club, smashed up the community cafe and killed everything on the allotments have removed so many options, but the rest who kept quiet about who did what are equally to blame.

[J4MIE]

After witnessing a nasty incident in a town near here on my way home from Sweden last night I have to say that the actions of some drunk people is absolutely disgusting :mad: It's why I don't drink to excess as that is where the fun stops, not just for the drinker but as Hazell points out, many many other people nearby who have to put up with it :down:

[Spoonbender]

There are 2 things to blame here, 2 reasons why this problem and others related to Anti-Social Behaviour, knives etc.. Firstly, the parents. I have 4 children. Not one of them have been in trouble with the police. They drink, because they're old enough, but the ones that arn't, don't. I don't see it as being that difficult as a arent to instill right from wrong values in the child as they grow up. The problem is those people who are too thick to know right from wrong are having children, and letting them do what pleases them, instead of taking responsibility and setting them on the straight and narrow.
Secondly in my theory is the banning of the cain in schools.
After all, where did all these thick, namby pamby people come from? As soon as corporal punishment was banned in schools this problem started to fester. Kids started to realise that they were untouchable, even rewarded for bad behaviour with holidays and expensive gifts. It's not their fault, it's the wally's who thought that the short sharp shock was from the dark ages and that we should move on. Well move on we have, to ASBO's, knifings, drunkenness, yobish behaviour and of course kicking people to death in the street.

[Hazell B]

Spoonbender :up:

Some poor man in a town near here was half kicked to death last weekend after refusing to buy some under age youths cigarettes and beer from a local shop. They were all caught, cautioned and released within a few hours, while their victim is still in hospital. Only one has been bailed .... the eldest.

14 and 15 year old kids booting about a twentysomething adult for not doing what they order him to do - a typical UK weekend story these days :(

[Spoonbender]

A suggestion was once made on a radio phone in, that boys were sterilised at birth, and then had to apply for a licence to have children before the operation was reversed. That way he would have to prove that he was responsible and could afford to bring children into the world without being a burden on the state. That view met with alot of opposition saying it was an infringement on human rights, my own view was split.
Opposite where I live is a family, a mother (never worked a day in her life) and 5 children (3 different fathers) and the bloke she now lives with (dose'nt work) The eldest child (probably about 18) has a child the youngest boy (about 11) is a small thug, does exactly as he pleases with no reprocussions. They all smoke (pack of fags £5 a day?) have mobile phones and a car on the drive.
This is starting to sway my position on the earlier idea :)

[Drew]

Sterilising? I think the human rights people would have something to say about that and also I think it wouldn't be terribly good for STIs, if males start to think "hey! I don't need a condom, she won't get pregnant" I think you can where it could go.

Personally I think they need direction. What should happen is that they should be trained in a skill like carpentry or plumbing and not just chucked out into the world at 16 perhaps without any GCSEs.

[Hazell B]

What should happen is that they should be trained in a skill like carpentry or plumbing and not just chucked out into the world at 16 perhaps without any GCSEs.

The 18 year old alcoholic who causes most noise and trouble around here is a full time trainee bricklayer. He's out of the door at 7.30 every morning, works hard all day and is earning respect from his employer - a man who wouldn't believe he's actually training a lad who's drinking himself to death each night. From the outside he appears a lovely, bright young lad.

Sterilization is one of those ideas that 1% of me thinks deserves a medal, but 99% knows it's just plain wrong to treat humans (whatever their class, IQ or whatever) like farm animals. Same goes for National Service, forced education beyond 16, etc. We can't expect people to turn out bad, and blindly punish them all, for the sake of a few moronic individuals.

[BDunnell]

The 18 year old alcoholic who causes most noise and trouble around here is a full time trainee bricklayer. He's out of the door at 7.30 every morning, works hard all day and is earning respect from his employer - a man who wouldn't believe he's actually training a lad who's drinking himself to death each night. From the outside he appears a lovely, bright young lad.

Sterilization is one of those ideas that 1% of me thinks deserves a medal, but 99% knows it's just plain wrong to treat humans (whatever their class, IQ or whatever) like farm animals. Same goes for National Service, forced education beyond 16, etc. We can't expect people to turn out bad, and blindly punish them all, for the sake of a few moronic individuals.

:up:

I couldn't agree more.

[Dave B]

I've dragged this up to ask a binge-drinking related question.

In the UK the Conservatives are calling for a rise in alcohol prices to stop binge drinking. In yesterday's budget the government raised the price of a pint of beer by 4p.

So if I wanted to go out and drink 10 pints (my minimum requirement for a binge :p ) it would cost me an extra 40p. Is that really likely to stop anybody?

That's not even the price of a bag of crisps, let alone a kebab on the walk home!

[Spoonbender]

Dave, the 4 p rise along with other rises is to pay the salary increase of the humble MP. If they want to stop under age drinking, then they have to give the police powers that mean something. I watch these fly-on-the-wall police type programmes on Sky, and every time the kids are let off with a warning, or the police have to drop it through lack of evidence. Kids do this because there is no deterent. A rise in alcohol prices is not going to stop children stealing booze is it??

[gloomyDAY]

They are bored.

There are two types of under aged drinkers in my experience.

There is the less common type, more frequently found in rural areas, that drink, because that is what their mothers, fathers, grandfathers, and so on were able to drink at a certain age so they just do it, sort of a right of passage kind of thing.

Then there are the kids in the suburbs with parents that work a ton that have lots of their parents money to spend but "nothing" to do. These are the kids that drink and do drugs just to do something. It might sound stupid, but I knew a lot of these types when I was in highschool, I flat out asked them why the would get flat out drunk on the weekends, the majority responded "we just do, I mean, it is something to do, I guess it is fun".

I didn't drink much when I was young, and I still don't, now that I am of legal age. Alcohol is too expensive to consume in large quantities at one time. That money can be spent elsewhere and provide far more enjoyment than getting flat out drunk.Listen to this man!

I'm not sure about the rural kids getting pissed, but he's dead on about the chaps over in the 'burbs.

[fandango]

I don't think underage drinking is such a big problem.

They're young, with healthy livers, and if they're sensible they'll grow out of it. What's a much bigger problem is the number of supposedly mature people who continue to drink too much - people who use drink to de-stress, to let their hair down, to forget etc. In other words, people who haven't grown up and got things sorted in their life without needing the crutch of alcohol. The reason I have this opinion is from my experience of a) being Irish and b) living in a place where people don't drink much.

The problem with older people drinking so much, apart from damage to their own health which is their own business, is that young people don't see any other alternative.