Racial abuse of Hamilton in Spain

[Giuseppe F1]

Story should speak for itself - ive NEVER seen anything like this in F1 before - a very sad day for our sport:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33858

[ASCAR24/7/365.5]

thats absolutely disgraseful, the same happened to black england players when they played against spint in the world cup or euro cup a few years back, no need for it at all, i think the fia need to do something to nip thi in the bud straight away

[Giuseppe F1]

I honestly think an official FIA press conference where they cover this, put fines to the circuits, officially ban these individuals from future events and ideally having Alonso there to publically distance himself from endorsing this behaviour and conduct of these so called Spanish 'fans' would be a great gesture

[Claus Hansen]

Juist my words, Giuseppe F1, i have attendended 15 Grand Prix, never heard and seen anything like this...

A sad day for the sport !

[Malbec]

I can't stand this type of 'fan', a British equivalent used to get into F1 during the Mansell days, very unpleasant although there weren't any black drivers to hurl abuse against then.

If Alonso disappeared tomorrow these guys would never go to an F1 track again, such is their dedication to the sport.

The FIA ought to clamp down on the Spanish motoring federation if they let this behaviour go unpunished. They might have the option of saying that the FIA don't administer the test sessions and do nothing but if they do they stand to lose even more credibility.

[markabilly]

Story should speak for itself - ive NEVER seen anything like this in F1 before - a very sad day for our sport:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33858


well one way to look at it, is ferrari fans paint themselves red, and LH fans paint themselves black

big deal.

wonder how you paint yourself those honda colors of last year.....or why would you.....

otoh, the cursing and racist stuff is completely uncalled for. But it does seem to be the latest fashion among sports fans.

I am sick of taking children to sporting events (even basketball, baseball and socceer games played by children in youth leagues) and hearing more words of an obscene and profane vocabulary screamed by middle aged men and women, many of whom are the parents of the kids who are playing. And then the pro events are worse. :down:

[Malbec]

well one way to look at it, is ferrari fans paint themselves red, and LH fans paint themselves black

big deal.

They're LH fans are they?

The slogan on the back of the T-shirts they're wearing may give you a clue. 'Alonso No.1'

There are limits to giving people the benefit of the doubt.

[markabilly]

They're LH fans are they?

The slogan on the back of the T-shirts they're wearing may give you a clue. 'Alonso No.1'

There are limits to giving people the benefit of the doubt.


So when is it bad to paint yourself black as distinquished from any other color?

As far as I am concerned, their message is that they are fans of LH.

And people like that, want to hurt, and when you do not let them, you win.

[Giuseppe F1]

So when is it bad to paint yourself black as distinquished from any other color?

As far as I am concerned, their message is that they are fans of LH.

And people like that, want to hurt, and when you do not let them, you win.

What ARE you on about?????

1) as was already mentioned, they are clear Alonso fans as they have Alonso#1 on their shirts

2) Its bad to paint themselves black because they are OBVIOUSLY doing so with a racist connotation

[Azumanga Davo]

well one way to look at it, is ferrari fans paint themselves red, and LH fans paint themselves black

big deal.

Wow, kool aid makes you less intelligent does it?

I certainly don't some sad morons going to do that. Shows that racial stereotyping will never die unfortunately.

As for Markabilly, silly American. :p :

[Malbec]

So when is it bad to paint yourself black as distinquished from any other color?

As far as I am concerned, their message is that they are fans of LH.


I sincerely hope you're joking markabilly.

[markabilly]

So again, what is wrong with being black?
Nothing

What difference does the color of one's skin make?
Nothing.

So what difference does it make to piant one self black?
Nothing.


Was it intended to be a racial insult by these participants?
Certainly.

Should it be a racial insult?
Certainly not.

[Bezza]

I can't stand this type of 'fan', a British equivalent used to get into F1 during the Mansell days, very unpleasant although there weren't any black drivers to hurl abuse against then.



British equivalent? I don't recall Mansell fans being racist!

These fans are pure racist - so you should be careful with tossing comparisons like that into the equation.

[ASCAR24/7/365.5]

yes ark but the point is that it IS a racial gesture, and its something that should happen, these people should be banned

[janneppi]

So, can we expect a return on favour from the Sun/Daily Mail crowd when Renault appears in UK?

Unless Alonso distances himself from these people I can't imagine it being overlooked by the "finer" elements of British F1 follwers.

[BDunnell]

So again, what is wrong with being black?
Nothing

What difference does the color of one's skin make?
Nothing.

So what difference does it make to piant one self black?
Nothing.


Was it intended to be a racial insult by these participants?
Certainly.

Should it be a racial insult?
Certainly not.

I can't quite believe what you're saying here. Blacking up is simply not acceptable under any circumstances. This is clearly an example of racism, pure and simple. I am rather amazed that there is even any discussion of the matter. The motivation of the individuals concerned is quite clear.

[BDunnell]

So, can we expect a return on favour from the Sun/Daily Mail crowd when Renault appears in UK?

Unless Alonso distances himself from these people I can't imagine it being overlooked by the "finer" elements of British F1 follwers.

:up:

[fandango]

yes ark but the point is that it IS a racial gesture, and its something that should happen, these people should be banned

I'm not trying to condone or excuse these people in any way, and I've heard that the circuit authorities have taken measures against the abuse, but there is more to this than simple racial hatred.

I've often seen references to Alonso's eyebrow(s) on this forum, and the same interpretation can be made. People make a joke about it because it's a characteristic of his appearance, and it's not considered racist because it's personal, not against a whole group of people. I think the same thing COULD be true here, although I don't want to defend actions which I would never do or consider correct.

I was surprised not to hear any racial shouts when I was at the circuit the other day, but while what I heard was relentless insults, it really was in a jovial atmosphere. Obviously I wasn't there all day though, so maybe things were different at other times.

This is similar to Luis Aragonés' comments about Thierry Henry a couple of years ago.

[fandango]

I can't quite believe what you're saying here. Blacking up is simply not acceptable under any circumstances. This is clearly an example of racism, pure and simple. I am rather amazed that there is even any discussion of the matter. The motivation of the individuals concerned is quite clear.


I respect what you say, but I have to disagree. It's not that simple. I agree it's unacceptable - in Anglo Saxon culture. But to judge it so simply is to judge it using the values of one culture as being above another. Another thing is that it's carnaval time. People dress up and have (what they consider) a good laugh.

At one point the other day the main guy shouting said "Hamilton come out, we're here with your cousin." Everyone looked around to see who he was refering to, and there was a kid of about 16 or 17 who had dark skin. He looked like he was from South America. Needless to say, he looked nothing like Lewis Hamilton. Everyone laughed at the stupidity of it. There was nothing sinister about it.

What I think bothered the McLaren team more was not the content of what was said, but rather the barrage of noise, which made it difficult for them to work. The circuit director said this in the paper, and that the teams could ask for the public noot to be allowed in if they wanted, as it was a private test.

[Tazio]

silly American. :p :
Could you leave " The Home of the Brave " out of this one?
Thanks!

[airshifter]

Could you leave " The Home of the Brave " out of this one?
Thanks!

You would think on a thread that involves obvious racial prejudice as the topic, other forms of prejudice wouldn't exist. ;)



It disgusts me to see this. Even the "beer swilling redneck" NASCAR fans aren't nearly that bad. Though it's obvious they don't like some of the drivers for maybe reasons racially motivated, I don't know of them reducing themselves to this level.

[markabilly]

I can't quite believe what you're saying here. Blacking up is simply not acceptable under any circumstances. This is clearly an example of racism, pure and simple. I am rather amazed that there is even any discussion of the matter. The motivation of the individuals concerned is quite clear.


"blacking up"??

"simply not acceptable under any circumstances"??

If someone calls someone black, that is an insult?
Only if one assumes that being black is something to be ashamed of, something inferior, and one should be insulted by being called black or someone dressing up as black. That is the message that these idiots intended to send and some of the reactions here is that which they hoped for.

Best answer for such behavior is that Hamilton fans paint themselves black. So whatever

[RaikkonenRules]

Story should speak for itself - ive NEVER seen anything like this in F1 before - a very sad day for our sport:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33858

That's the kind of crap you'd xpect from football holigans. Disgraceful hope F1 dosen't start having riots this year. :down:

[Malbec]

I respect what you say, but I have to disagree. It's not that simple. I agree it's unacceptable - in Anglo Saxon culture. But to judge it so simply is to judge it using the values of one culture as being above another. Another thing is that it's carnaval time. People dress up and have (what they consider) a good laugh.

At one point the other day the main guy shouting said "Hamilton come out, we're here with your cousin." Everyone looked around to see who he was refering to, and there was a kid of about 16 or 17 who had dark skin. He looked like he was from South America. Needless to say, he looked nothing like Lewis Hamilton. Everyone laughed at the stupidity of it. There was nothing sinister about it.

This may well be the case fandango, that this was all good natured.

However there are plenty of cultures where this behaviour isn't seen as being acceptable, Anglo-Saxon ones at the very least as you yourself have suggested. I'd also add that new F1 audiences may not appreciate comments about Hamilton based solely upon his melanin content however well intentioned they may be.

F1 is a global sport. The actions of a handful of fans at a test session is up there for perusal by anyone on the planet within minutes. This is how the Spanish are in danger of being perceived regardless of reassurances that this was all good natured.

In the hypothetical situation where LH beats Alonso to win either Spanish GP this year I hope the Spanish fans don't bring racial comments into it regardless of how humorous or well-meaning the intent. As a Spanish I hope you can understand that having images of Spanish racism beamed live into homes across the globe may be a little detrimental to the way all Spanish are perceived.

I'm speaking as someone who when travelling through Europe a decade or so ago could feel the obvious wariness of the locals in countries like Spain or Italy when they saw the British number plate. Not surprising given the images of Brits on holiday on the Costa Brava or football hooligans giving it some to their south European cousins that they'd seen.

[F1boat]

This is very stupid. I have nothing else to add.

[markabilly]

That's the kind of crap you'd xpect from football holigans. Disgraceful hope F1 dosen't start having riots this year. :down:
Unfortunately as I noted earlier, this seems to be the latest trend at all sporting events.

It seems to have really gotten started at socceer events, and is now spreading all over, everywhere.

I sort of figured motor racing to be immune because what good does it do to be hurling such trash at a driver or team when (even if they were not wearing a helmet), the engine noise would drown out most or all of it.

But I guess not


Besides Spain I would think would be the last place to find a local chapter of the KKK, given the attitude of any true Klansman towards Catholics that regards them as the greater evil,
but I guess not

[fandango]

Dylan H, FYI I'm not Spanish, I'm Irish. I'm only posting on this subject because I can see how the actions of a minority can colour people's views. I agree with what you say about the TV images, but I can also see how the English-speaking media will run with this. And not everyone draws the same conclusions from the same TV images.

[BDunnell]

I respect what you say, but I have to disagree. It's not that simple. I agree it's unacceptable - in Anglo Saxon culture. But to judge it so simply is to judge it using the values of one culture as being above another. Another thing is that it's carnaval time. People dress up and have (what they consider) a good laugh.

I think racism, casual or not, ought to be unacceptable in any culture. In that sense, I have no problem judging that the values of those cultures that disapprove of such things are above those in which this behaviour is acceptable. The same goes for all sorts of other things that some cultures believe are acceptable.



At one point the other day the main guy shouting said "Hamilton come out, we're here with your cousin." Everyone looked around to see who he was refering to, and there was a kid of about 16 or 17 who had dark skin. He looked like he was from South America. Needless to say, he looked nothing like Lewis Hamilton. Everyone laughed at the stupidity of it. There was nothing sinister about it.

I think that's fairly 'sinister', as you put it.

[BDunnell]

"blacking up"??

"simply not acceptable under any circumstances"??

If someone calls someone black, that is an insult?
Only if one assumes that being black is something to be ashamed of, something inferior, and one should be insulted by being called black or someone dressing up as black. That is the message that these idiots intended to send and some of the reactions here is that which they hoped for.

Best answer for such behavior is that Hamilton fans paint themselves black. So whatever

This is not what I was saying at all, and, with respect, your view of this is seriously skewed.

[Zico]

Stupid, pathetic so called "fans" obviously racist yet at the same time the racism issue feeds off itself. By bringing it to the attention of the masses I believe the media are, in effect, promoting it and I actually agree with what Markabilly says..

To add a slant on the subject.. Did you know that in India face whitening creams are big money.. am I offended by this?

No, not in the slightest!

[BDunnell]

Unfortunately as I noted earlier, this seems to be the latest trend at all sporting events.

It seems to have really gotten started at socceer events, and is now spreading all over, everywhere.

I would say that racist incidents at sporting events have decreased substantially in recent years — certainly in the UK — which is why they are all the more shocking when they do happen.

[Tazio]

I think the only real solution to this unfortunate situation is for McLaren to build a test track on Gibraltar

[Tazio]

You would think on a thread that involves obvious racial prejudice as the topic, other forms of prejudice wouldn't exist. ;)

C'est la vie!

[markabilly]

This is not what I was saying at all, and, with respect, your view of this is seriously skewed.
I understand what you are trying to say, quite well, but like many folks, there is this big tendency to overlook the racism implicit (innocent, intended or otherwise) by suggesting that "blacking up" is not acceptable.



Much like "I have friends who are black" is another way of saying, I am a liberal and quite willing to accept people despite the fact that they are black.

So what difference should it make and why even mention it...

So my reaction is that they must be fans of Hamilton, and shall label them as such. Maybe then they will wander off to the scum pond that they slimed their way out of

[Malbec]

To add a slant on the subject.. Did you know that in India face whitening creams are big money.. am I offended by this?

No, not in the slightest!

As an aside pale skin is seen as desirable in many parts of Asia but this has little to do with wanting to appear as a Caucasian.

In previous years manual labourers tended to have darker skin as they spent all their time outside in the sun. The wealthy would stay indoors all day and have a pale complexion. Hence pale skin was associated with wealth. It ought to be noted that this is the case even in cultures that view Caucasians as being of a lower status.

Pale skin was also viewed as being desirable in Caucasian women until air travel arrived. Then for north Europeans having a tan became desirable as it was 'proof' that one could afford travel to sunnier climes, itself a marker of wealth.

[BDunnell]

Much like "I have friends who are black" is another way of saying, I am a liberal and quite willing to accept people despite the fact that they are black.

I think that phrase is used more by people who are far from liberal, in an often vain attempt to prove that they aren't racist having suggested to others that they might be.

[Zico]

As an aside pale skin is seen as desirable in many parts of Asia but this has little to do with wanting to appear as a Caucasian.

In previous years manual labourers tended to have darker skin as they spent all their time outside in the sun. The wealthy would stay indoors all day and have a pale complexion. Hence pale skin was associated with wealth. It ought to be noted that this is the case even in cultures that view Caucasians as being of a lower status.

Pale skin was also viewed as being desirable in Caucasian women until air travel arrived. Then for north Europeans having a tan became desirable as it was 'proof' that one could afford travel to sunnier climes, itself a marker of wealth.

Thanks, wasnt aware of that.

[Dzeidzei]

Remember Kimi wearing a monkey suit last year...

Well, he was just having fun. No insults intended there... :)

Seriously, its not the saddest day in F1. These morons exist and theres no way to get rid of them all. And its even illegal to shoot them. At least in most countries.

The best way LH can answer these guys is to drive fast and beat Freddie on track. Im sure 99.99 percent of the FA fans feel sick about this stunt. Or their hatred of McL and Lewis has really gone way too long.

Its only a sport.

[gloomyDAY]

Remember Kimi wearing a monkey suit last year...

Well, he was just having fun. No insults intended there... :)

Seriously, its not the saddest day in F1. These morons exist and theres no way to get rid of them all. And its even illegal to shoot them. At least in most countries.

The best way LH can answer these guys is to drive fast and beat Freddie on track. Im sure 99.99 percent of the FA fans feel sick about this stunt. Or their hatred of McL and Lewis has really gone way too long.

Its only a sport.Yeah, quite overblown if you ask me. These fans (using the term loosely) should get lost and go back to their cave dwellings. Shouting those kind of remarks at a professional is absurd. No one should stand for that and yet everyone around them let these turds get away with being malicious.

Anyway, just shouldn't happen again.

[mstillhere]

I've often seen references to Alonso's eyebrow(s) on this forum, and the same interpretation can be made. People make a joke about it because it's a characteristic of his appearance, and it's not considered racist because it's personal, not against a whole group of people. I think the same thing COULD be true here, although I don't want to defend actions which I would never do or consider correct..
I completely agree. I was appalled when I saw on this site all the anti-Alonso fans referring to him as one/monobrow or some thing like that. I am not saying it's exactly the same thing, but I don't recall anyone saying anything in his defense. I think the whole thing stopped once Alonso "took care" of it. Otherwise I bet people would still refer to him in the same way.
At times I think, and I am not saying that in general, CONVENIANCE makes us turn the blind eye at things. I truly hope that the reason why so many people are so upset over this issue has nothing to do with Hamilton's nationality nor with the team he is racing for.

[Tazio]

"Abuse of this kind is a clear breach of the principles enshrined in the FIA statutes and any repetition will result in serious sanctions"

Now the FIA wants us to believe they have principals?
That are "enshined" no less?
That's a bit of a stretch!

http://www.f1technical.net/news/8191

[savage86]

Motorsport fans I’ve always found to be surprisingly good natured people, I’ve never met anyone at a motor race I haven’t liked, And I’ve been to races all over the world. These people are likely not really F1 fans at all. Seems to me they have just turned up to laugh amongst themselves about there little joke and give other Spanish race fans a bad name.
Its disgraceful and depressing. Only the other day I was watching something about pre war Olympics where a load of African and west Indian runners turned up and thrashed all of Hitler’s best men causing him to be totally enraged. I thought to myself while watching it how much things have changed, maybe not so much has changed after all.

[Cozzie]

That is just disgusting! Alonso really should come out with a statement saying he does not endorse this and warn fans, if not he is just as bad as the rest of them.

[JovialJooles]

markabilly, I'm really not sure where you're coming from with your comments.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and putting it down to cultural differences.

In the UK and Europe, painting your face black in the manner photographed is a clear racist insult. You would only paint your face black in this situation to insult black people, no other reason. If they were really fans of Lewis and wanted to paint their faces, they would either paint their faces with the St. George Cross or the Union Flag.

There is no way that this can be misinterpreted. Just as someone hanging a noose outside a black person's house in the States is clearly racially motivated.

[woody2goody]

Wow, kool aid makes you less intelligent does it?

OH YEAH!!

[BDunnell]

markabilly, I'm really not sure where you're coming from with your comments.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and putting it down to cultural differences.

In the UK and Europe, painting your face black in the manner photographed is a clear racist insult. You would only paint your face black in this situation to insult black people, no other reason. If they were really fans of Lewis and wanted to paint their faces, they would either paint their faces with the St. George's Cross or the Union Flag.

There is no way that this can be misinterpreted. Just as someone hanging a noose outside a black person's house in the States is clearly racially motivated.

:up:

[Valve Bounce]

I think some people have never heard of racial vilification.

But the above is nothing compared to the monkey chants directed at Andrew Symonds in India.

[cosmicpanda]

I believe markabilly was simply saying that Lewis shouldn't accept it as an insult, which is perfectly sensible IMO.

[Valve Bounce]

I believe markabilly was simply saying that Lewis shouldn't accept it as an insult, which is perfectly sensible IMO.


WHY?

[btcc-thunder]

why the hell were these idiots allowed to remain in the grandstand? disgusting

[fandango]

That is just disgusting! Alonso really should come out with a statement saying he does not endorse this and warn fans, if not he is just as bad as the rest of them.

That's nonsense. It has nothing directly to do with Alonso.

Well, I feel I understand the outrage people feel, being from the same cultural background (more or less) as British, Australians etc. I also understand something of the sense of humour of the people doing the insulting (a sense of humour I don't share). My opinion is that people are sometimes too quick to jump to conclusions and condemn something without it being clearly the case at all, and I've tried to show another perspective, but there you go...

[BDunnell]

I think some people have never heard of racial vilification.

Or they are so worked up about the idea of 'political correctness' apparently ruling our lives that they now feel that anything is acceptable in the name of being 'politically incorrect'.

[Bagwan]

Lewis Hamilton is black , did you hear ?
Gosh , that's a shock .

There are racists everywhere .
Whew , another shock .


I guess some of you still don't understand Markabilly's point .

Allow a racist to shock you , and you play into his/her hand .

These monkeys(oops , who used that term , which also can be used to insult some folks of colour ?) put on Boris Said wigs with some stove black and look like cheap versions of a Bozo/Al Jolson sideshow .

The hard thing about this is wanting to laugh AT , piteously , the utter gutter of thought process that has someone going to this much effort to look foolish , and wanting not to appear as though one is laughing WITH these monkeys .


In fact , I'd like to suggest that these guys are so good , they should take the show on the road .
Are they testing at Silverstone any time soon ?
What say we all pool our resources and get them some tickets ?

[Zico]

Lewis Hamilton is black , did you hear ?
Gosh , that's a shock .

There are racists everywhere .
Whew , another shock .


I guess some of you still don't understand Markabilly's point .

Allow a racist to shock you , and you play into his/her hand .

Well said.. my thoughts too.

[markabilly]

I believe markabilly was simply saying that Lewis shouldn't accept it as an insult, which is perfectly sensible IMO.


WHY?

Never ever said it was not intended to be an insult by those particular people.

but you are right in saying he should not accept it as an insult, for to accept it as such is to imply that being black is bad, when it ain't

so it is all the more worse for us that this statement might be true from another post:"You would only paint your face black in this situation to insult black people, no other reason. If they were really fans of Lewis and wanted to paint their faces, they would either paint their faces with the St. George Cross or the Union Flag."

That is sad for all of us...

And bottom line: if Hamilton breaks down and cries over this nonsense, that will only spur them on, because you would think that they are NOT doing this to get your approval, now are they? :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

Racial taunts of any kind should not be tolerated in any sporting event.

I just watched the Superbowl a few minutes ago on TV, and I just wonder whether Racial taunts occur in this event.

Please let me know.

[markabilly]

Racial taunts of any kind should not be tolerated in any sporting event.

I just watched the Superbowl a few minutes ago on TV, and I just wonder whether Racial taunts occur in this event.

Please let me know.

having been in the stands, i have never heard such, but the last time was 15 years ago. So times may have changed

However, I have stood close to the sidelines at a number of pro football games in the late 70's, and heard what the players said to each other, black and white, would make anything i have heard about the F1 stuff of this thread, very calm and professional.

Indeed, most pro footballers are well beyond racial slurs really upsetting them and would only laugh in your face at such. On the other hand, taunting someone continously, racial or not, is not likely to be well recieved and at some point, likely to result in violence

[DonnieDarco]

I'm not trying to condone or excuse these people in any way, and I've heard that the circuit authorities have taken measures against the abuse, but there is more to this than simple racial hatred.

I've often seen references to Alonso's eyebrow(s) on this forum, and the same interpretation can be made. People make a joke about it because it's a characteristic of his appearance, and it's not considered racist because it's personal, not against a whole group of people. I think the same thing COULD be true here, although I don't want to defend actions which I would never do or consider correct.

I was surprised not to hear any racial shouts when I was at the circuit the other day, but while what I heard was relentless insults, it really was in a jovial atmosphere. Obviously I wasn't there all day though, so maybe things were different at other times.

This is similar to Luis Aragonés' comments about Thierry Henry a couple of years ago.

I find it hilarious that you would compare jokes made about Alonso's eyebrows to this. And when I say hilarious, you can rest assured I'm not laughing. It is in no way the same thing and cannot be compared at all, since having bushy eyebrows is not a matter of race.

I hope the real Spanish motorsport fans of which there are many, help to stamp out this disgusting behaviour which could very easily cost them their grand prix. And that would be a great shame.

As for hearing relentless insults made in a 'jovial' manner, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some people simply refused to hear what was unpalatable to them.

[ShiftingGears]

I find it hilarious that you would compare jokes made about Alonso's eyebrows to this. And when I say hilarious, you can rest assured I'm not laughing. It is in no way the same thing and cannot be compared at all, since having bushy eyebrows is not a matter of race.


It is the same thing. They want some physical characteristic to stupidly exaggerate to try to parodise Hamilton for, which is his skin colour. Whereas someone who wanted to stupidly parodise Alonso would use his eyebrows and exaggerate them.

It isn't racial hatred, its just morons acting like morons.

[wmcot]

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by the media. I agree that it is totally stupid and tasteless and racist, but the proper way to handle it would have been for the circuit authorities to "escort" the bunch of idiots out of the track. If they returned, the local legal authorities should have handled it. We have given this bunch exactly what they wanted - extensive media coverage!

[Priorat]

In another thread I had to explain the difference between being a F1 fan that support Alonso and being just an Alonso fan. Now you can see it. These people just converted their football fanatism to Alonso fanatism and they know nothing about F1. They will disappear once Alonso stops wining or leave F1. Some of you posted here that painting your face in black it is not racism. Well, if you say f** black of sheet wearing your face painted in black it is obviously racism.
But overall they are idiots because with his behaviuor they are embarrassing Alonso himself and his F1/Alonso real supporters.
As they are idiots and know nothing on F1 (and perhaps about anything) they haven't processed right the wrong information given to them by the spanish media.
I admitt that this kind of people and the spanish media at first made me support anyother than Alonso, but now they make me feel sorry for him so I will try not bash him anymore.
Sorry for long post

[SGWilko]

So again, what is wrong with being black?
Nothing

What difference does the color of one's skin make?
Nothing.

So what difference does it make to piant one self black?
Nothing.


Was it intended to be a racial insult by these participants?
Certainly.

Should it be a racial insult?
Certainly not.

Grow up.

[SGWilko]

So, can we expect a return on favour from the Sun/Daily Mail crowd when Renault appears in UK?

Unless Alonso distances himself from these people I can't imagine it being overlooked by the "finer" elements of British F1 follwers.

Well, readers of the 'scum' are just that.

[SGWilko]

I respect what you say, but I have to disagree. It's not that simple. I agree it's unacceptable - in Anglo Saxon culture. But to judge it so simply is to judge it using the values of one culture as being above another. Another thing is that it's carnaval time. People dress up and have (what they consider) a good laugh.

At one point the other day the main guy shouting said "Hamilton come out, we're here with your cousin." Everyone looked around to see who he was refering to, and there was a kid of about 16 or 17 who had dark skin. He looked like he was from South America. Needless to say, he looked nothing like Lewis Hamilton. Everyone laughed at the stupidity of it. There was nothing sinister about it.

What I think bothered the McLaren team more was not the content of what was said, but rather the barrage of noise, which made it difficult for them to work. The circuit director said this in the paper, and that the teams could ask for the public noot to be allowed in if they wanted, as it was a private test.

Sorry, but unless I am misteken you come across as suggesting what those racists were doing as acceptable.

[SGWilko]

I completely agree. I was appalled when I saw on this site all the anti-Alonso fans referring to him as one/monobrow or some thing like that. I am not saying it's exactly the same thing, but I don't recall anyone saying anything in his defense. I think the whole thing stopped once Alonso "took care" of it. Otherwise I bet people would still refer to him in the same way.
At times I think, and I am not saying that in general, CONVENIANCE makes us turn the blind eye at things. I truly hope that the reason why so many people are so upset over this issue has nothing to do with Hamilton's nationality nor with the team he is racing for.

Now hold on a minute, some have commented on here that Lewis' hair looks like it is painted on.

That is poking fun at his physical appearance, but is far from offensive nor racist.....

[redson]

I'm a spanish formula1 fan long before Alonsomania started, and I find very annoynig the way this people behave. I disapprove all the racist insults this people (if you can call them human beings) do. Because of the Carnaval fans went in disguise to the circuit, but these ones painted in black choosed were a no-fun joke. The atmosphere you can live now in a Spanish track is so depressing with all this footbal hooligans turned into Alonso fans that I won't go to any of the races held at Spain and I'll go abroad instead.

[ArrowsFA1]

Sadly this seems to be an extension of the poisonous atmosphere that was evident in F1 at times last year. The media loved whipping up controversy and conflict and it seems a few idiots have decided to take it a bit further by their actions at Barcelona.

They're not F1 fans, nor are they Alonso fans and their behaviour makes fools of no-one but themselves.

[cosmicpanda]

WHY?

Of course, it is unfair that they abuse Lewis because of his skin colour, and it would be a nicer world if they didn't, but they are doing it. But if I were Lewis, I would refuse to accept the insult. Wouldn't you?

Another example: I'm deaf, and sometimes have trouble hearing people. But I'm off to do a music degree next year. If I'd let it trouble me when people called me "deaf ears" and made fun of my hearing loss, do you think I would still be doing that?

[SGWilko]

Of course, it is unfair that they abuse Lewis because of his skin colour, and it would be a nicer world if they didn't, but they are doing it. But if I were Lewis, I would refuse to accept the insult. Wouldn't you?

Another example: I'm deaf, and sometimes have trouble hearing people. But I'm off to do a music degree next year. If I'd let it trouble me when people called me "deaf ears" and made fun of my hearing loss, do you think I would still be doing that?

With the greatest respect, it is not quite the same is it? I wear glasses. When I was at school, I was called 4 eyes. So what.

Racial slurs however are a very different matter.

Disclaimer - that comment is neither detrimental or personal, so please, mods, lay off the PC gone mad editing, I'm still waiting to hear from you as to why one of my previous posts was deemed 'personal'

Tsk. :rolleyes:

[cosmicpanda]

With the greatest respect, it is not quite the same is it? I wear glasses. When I was at school, I was called 4 eyes. So what.

Racial slurs however are a very different matter.

Not that different, really. It's not Lewis' fault that he was born black any more than it's Alonso's fault that he's Spanish, or yours that you wear glasses.

[SGWilko]

Not that different, really. It's not Lewis' fault that he was born black any more than it's Alonso's fault that he's Spanish, or yours that you wear glasses.

Fault does not come into it. Why should being born black mean you are socially less accepted than if you are white. That is the whole crux of it, isnt it?

I get called 4 eyes, because I have a defect with my eyes, being black is not a defect. Or at least, it should not be, but some choose to see it that way.

And our dear friend markabilly was kind enough to bring up the KKK, exactly what is their purpose, other than to make the lives of black people miserable.

[samuratt]

First of all i would like to point out that what happened at Barcelona wasn't racism. I mean, people were insulting Lewis, yes, but no because he is black. Not at all. People were insulting him because of what happened last year. Did they refer to the colour of his skin? yes but not because he is better or worse for being black, just because if you want to insult a fat guy, you call him fat, if you want to insult a bold man, you call him bold. This is the way insults work here in Spain. I do not like it either.

Note that i am not traying to defend this guys, i am just providing you with some cultural background that may lead you to think of what happened was not racism, was indeed a bunch of morons insulting. That is all.

I do understand that due to cultural backgrounds this same thing could be considered racism in some other countries. But not in Spain, we are not creative when it comes to insults, that is true... but here we don't kill anybody for being black, neither slave them. So being black doesn't mean a thing in Spain, it is just the colour of your skin. Another charasteristic we can make fun of if we know it disapoints you.

So to all of you who think that Spaniards are racist for what you saw, let me tell you you are completely wrong. Morons we may be, but no racist at all. And for this solely reasson I, as a spaniard, do not take any responsibility for what these bunch of guys did, neither should do Alonso.

[cosmicpanda]

Fault does not come into it. Why should being born black mean you are socially less accepted than if you are white. That is the whole crux of it, isnt it?

I get called 4 eyes, because I have a defect with my eyes, being black is not a defect. Or at least, it should not be, but some choose to see it that way.

Precisely my point! And the reason that Lewis shouldn't accept it as an insult, because being insulted because of it in the first place is stupid in itself.

[SGWilko]

First of all i would like to point out that what happened at Barcelona wasn't racism. I mean, people were insulting Lewis, yes, but no because he is black. Not at all. People were insulting him because of what happened last year. Did they refer to the colour of his skin? yes but not because he is better or worse for being black, just because if you want to insult a fat guy, you call him fat, if you want to insult a bold man, you call him bold. This is the way insults work here in Spain. I do not like it either.

Note that i am not traying to defend this guys, i am just providing you with some cultural background that may lead you to think of what happened was not racism, was indeed a bunch of morons insulting. That is all.

I do understand that due to cultural backgrounds this same thing could be considered racism in some other countries. But not in Spain, we are not creative when it comes to insults, that is true... but here we don't kill anybody for being black, neither slave them. So being black doesn't mean a thing in Spain, it is just the colour of your skin. Another charasteristic we can make fun of if we know it disapoints you.

So to all of you who think that Spaniards are racist for what you saw, let me tell you you are completely wrong. Morons we may be, but no racist at all. And for this solely reasson I, as a spaniard, do not take any responsibility for what these bunch of guys did, neither should do Alonso.

So, picture the scene. There I am, going about my business, but I've had a bad day.

I shout at the next random black guy I meet and call him a black ****.

Now, I'm up in court on charges of racial discrimination.

My defence would be that I'm allowed to use such language and slurs because that is what the Spanish do, and they are not racist?

Come on, get real.

[SGWilko]

Precisely my point!

Oh, OK. Pardon me. :)

[Mark]

The reason for their insults is irrelevant, they were racial insults and hence they are racist.

[SGWilko]

Deleted, wires crossed.

Sorry.

[Mark]

SGWilko, the only people who I'm referring to as racist are the so called Alonso fans. My post was not directed at yourself or any of your posts.

[SGWilko]

SGWilko, the only people who I'm referring to as racist are the so called Alonso fans. My post was not directed at yourself or any of your posts.

I know, I know. Sorry, see edited post above.

Stuart.

[GridGirl]

Personally I think it is racisit. I was thinking about going to Valencia for the GP this year, but a few selected idiots are seriously putting me off even though I've previously been to the Spanish GP and thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't want to or need to work hard all year to enable me to go to testing or a GP and see this kind of behaviour.

F1 is trying its hardest to break into new global markets. This kind of behaviour by a few selected people isn't going to endear F1 to the world.

[Mark]

Personally I think it is racisit. I was thinking about going to Valencia for the GP this year, but a few selected idiots are seriously putting me off even though I've previously been to the Spanish GP and thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't want to or need to work hard all year to enable me to go to testing or a GP and see this kind of behaviour.

F1 is trying its hardest to break into new global markets. This kind of behaviour by a few selected people isn't going to endear F1 to the world.

I wouldn't let a handful of idiots put you off, you'd probably not see them anyway, even if they were there.

Although if you've been to the Spanish GP before it might be good to try somewhere else?

[samuratt]

So, picture the scene. There I am, going about my business, but I've had a bad day.

I shout at the next random black guy I meet and call him a black ****.

Now, I'm up in court on charges of racial discrimination.

My defence would be that I'm allowed to use such language and slurs because that is what the Spanish do, and they are not racist?

Come on, get real.

Do yeally think this is a good example???

[Valve Bounce]

It is the same thing. They want some physical characteristic to stupidly exaggerate to try to parodise Hamilton for, which is his skin colour. Whereas someone who wanted to stupidly parodise Alonso would use his eyebrows and exaggerate them.

It isn't racial hatred, its just morons acting like morons.

Sorry to disagree, but from what I saw on the link and what was shouted at Hamilton, that is racial vilification. I don't know about Spain, but that is unlawful in our country.

Let me put it this way: If a group dressed like that and shouted the same insults in English in one of our footy matches, he would find himself in serious trouble. Things have changed a lot since Michael Long made a stand. With players, now they have mediation and if that doesn't work, the guy would get suspended.

Personally I think Racial taunts and abuse are unacceptable in any civilised society.

[SGWilko]

Do yeally think this is a good example???

In the case of racial discrimination, is there such thing as a good example?

[samuratt]

The reason for their insults is irrelevant, they were racial insults and hence they are racist.

I think the reason is the main question. If wherever you hear the word "black" you see racism, then everybody in the world is racist, even the people of New Zeland who call thir rugby team "ALL BLACKS"...

Only the other day I was watching something about pre war Olympics where a load of African and west Indian runners turned up and thrashed all of Hitler’s best men causing him to be totally enraged. I thought to myself while watching it how much things have changed, maybe not so much has changed after all.

That was Jesse Owen's, in probably the greatest ever Sporting achievement (in my opinion the greatest, given the context).

The thing is that these morons at Montmelo are not bright enough to realise that, if anything, they are motivating Hamilton even more.

I'm sure I remember watching a documentary on Lewis (it wasn't very good apart from one bit) in which he said that whenever he had suffered racial abuse it just made him more determined to win.

Which is the correct response....although the thought of him doing an Eric Cantona and kung-fu kicking these fans is quite appealing.

I think the reason is the main question. If wherever you hear the word "black" you see racism, then everybody in the world is racist, even the people of New Zeland who call thir rugby team "ALL BLACKS"...

Not the same context.

The Kiwi's shirts are black, which is where the nick-name comes from.

[Mark]

I think the reason is the main question. If wherever you hear the word "black" you see racism, then everybody in the world is racist, even the people of New Zeland who call thir rugby team "ALL BLACKS"...

If they were called that because the players were black then it would be racist, but since it's only the shirts they are referring to it is not!

[SGWilko]

I think the reason is the main question. If wherever you hear the word "black" you see racism, then everybody in the world is racist, even the people of New Zeland who call thir rugby team "ALL BLACKS"...

If they leave out the fact of his skin colour/ancestry, then fine. Call him a t****r cos he drives for McLaren, but not a black F*****.

It is the use of the word black used in a way to belittle someone with that skin colour, that IS racist. They also referred to Hamiltons' 'familly' for crying out loud!

[Big Ben]

I'm not trying to defend this idiotic behavior at all but I don't see how is it different from lets say mistreating a person for his nationality for example and you can see this more often than this
as for the wrath of the spanish fans against McLaren. What can you do? They did stop FA win a third wdc... however the behavior is quite stupid. I ve spent a lot of time in Spain and I could see there all kind of people... racists, nationalists and other type of idiots like in every other country...

[MAX_THRUST]

Sad to say that there has been many racist comments on this site I felt in the past. Subtly done, though by some, less so by others.

I hope he continues to win and dominates the sport, just to shut up the idiots that spout such racist hatred. This isn't 1938 its 2008!!!

[ArrowsFA1]

Sources close to the FIA have told autosport.com that this year's Spanish Grand Prix at Barcelona and the European Grand Prix at Valencia are now under threat because of what has happened, so keen are the FIA to ensure that racism is not tolerated in motorsport.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64973

[samuratt]

In the case of racial discrimination, is there such thing as a good example?

Then picture this!!! and this time this is not an expample. It is just the truth.

A couple of years ago the british police shoot down a black men at the London Underground. The fact that this guy was black (or likely) and was carring a backpack lead them to think he was a terrorist, so they shoot him down 8 times before asking... Yeah eight ****ing times!!!!!

I think this is the best example of racial dsicrimination you will ever find and it happenned at you own country. Now try to explain me why the judges let those policemen free. Were they racist too??

Do not get me wrong, just because some guy mistook a black men with a terrorist and shoot him to death I won't think all british people are racist. I just think there are morons everywhere...

The main reason he was shoot wasn't he was black, it was he looked like a terrorist. But using the same reasoning Mark has used above (undermining the improtance of the "reasons"): "He was black and was shoot down therefore whoever did it was a racist, and whoever gets along with it is a racist too. Period."

I think we should consider everything in its right background!!!! because taking things out of context led to nothing but stupid discussions.

[samuratt]

They also referred to Hamiltons' 'familly' for crying out loud!
What does the hamilton's have to do with this??

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64973

"Spanish fans are aiming their abuse at McLaren and Hamilton because they feel that former world champion Fernando Alonso was treated unfairly when he drove for the Woking based team last year"

Not sure Autosport is helping here....it is a minority of Spanish 'fans' surely? Not 'Spanish fans' in their entirety as that article could be seen as suggesting?

That said, it is quite correct for the FIA to be taking the matter very seriously.

[samuratt]

If they were called that because the players were black then it would be racist, but since it's only the shirts they are referring to it is not!

But the fact is that manny players of ·"THE ALL BLACK" are indeed black!!!!! ;)

[SGWilko]

Then picture this!!! and this time this is not an expample. It is just the truth.

A couple of years ago the british police shoot down a black men at the London Underground. The fact that this guy was black (or likely) and was carring a backpack lead them to think he was a terrorist, so they shoot him down 8 times before asking... Yeah eight ****ing times!!!!!

I think this is the best example of racial dsicrimination you will ever find and it happenned at you own country. Now try to explain me why the judges let those policemen free. Were they racist too??

Do not get me wrong, just because some guy mistook a black men with a terrorist and shoot him to death I won't think all british people are racist. I just think there are morons everywhere...

The main reason he was shoot wasn't he was black, it was he looked like a terrorist. But using the same reasoning Mark has used above (undermining the improtance of the "reasons"): "He was black and was shoot down therefore whoever did it was a racist, and whoever gets along with it is a racist too. Period."

I think we should consider everything in its right background!!!! because taking things out of context led to nothing but stupid discussions.

Just as a matter of interest, but, unless I am mistaken, facts have shown that the individuals (certainly since 9/11) who undertake these suicide attacks are of asian descent. Not racist, fact.

Now, IF JC DeM was a terrorist, and they had not acted in case the PC brgade get on their back, and someone you know got blown to pulp up the walls of a tube tunnel, how would you feel then?

But the fact is that manny players of ·"THE ALL BLACK" are indeed black!!!!! ;)

But that wasn't the case when the nick-name was first used. It therefore has a context that precedes any racial connotations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_blacks

"The team first competed internationally in 1884 against Cumberland County, New South Wales, and played their first Test match in 1903, a victory against Australia. This was soon followed by a tour of the northern hemisphere in 1905, during which the team's only loss was to Wales in Cardiff"

Have a look at the photo and see how many players are non-Caucasian.

The photo is from 1884.

[samuratt]

Not the same context.

The Kiwi's shirts are black, which is where the nick-name comes from.

That is the whole point i am trying to make!!!! The context matters a lot!!!

[BeansBeansBeans]

I think the reason is the main question. If wherever you hear the word "black" you see racism, then everybody in the world is racist, even the people of New Zeland who call thir rugby team "ALL BLACKS"...

There really are some bizarre opinions on this thread. Yes, the New Zealand rugby team is called the All Blacks, due to the colour of their strip, and the team contains several black players. What on earth has that got to do with this discussion? How can you compare it with a group of spectators 'blacking-up' and hurling racist insults at a black sportsman?

[SGWilko]

Just as a matter of interest, but, unless I am mistaken, facts have shown that the individuals (certainly since 9/11) who undertake these suicide attacks are of asian descent. Not racist, fact.

Now, IF JC DeM was a terrorist, and they had not acted in case the PC brgade get on their back, and someone you know got blown to pulp up the walls of a tube tunnel, how would you feel then?

Just as a little tid-bit on this particular example. It is my understanding that JC DeM bolted because he thought he was about to be nicked for outstaying his visa. If he had not been here when his visa ran out, or if he had not tried to do a runner, who knows what would have happened.

[samuratt]

Just as a matter of interest, but, unless I am mistaken, facts have shown that the individuals (certainly since 9/11) who undertake these suicide attacks are of asian descent. Not racist, fact.

Now, IF JC DeM was a terrorist, and they had not acted in case the PC brgade get on their back, and someone you know got blown to pulp up the walls of a tube tunnel, how would you feel then?

I really got scared now!!!!

Are you trying to defend the police behaviour??? So when a couple of stupid spanish morons call Hamilton black it is racism, when you shoot down a men, just because he looks suspicious due to the colour of his skin is just self defense and country preservation?????

First of all i would like to point out that what happened at Barcelona wasn't racism. I mean, people were insulting Lewis, yes, but no because he is black. Not at all. People were insulting him because of what happened last year. Did they refer to the colour of his skin? yes but not because he is better or worse for being black, just because if you want to insult a fat guy, you call him fat, if you want to insult a bold man, you call him bold. This is the way insults work here in Spain. I do not like it either.

Note that i am not traying to defend this guys, i am just providing you with some cultural background that may lead you to think of what happened was not racism, was indeed a bunch of morons insulting. That is all.

i understand that you are not condoning the actions of these people.

I can also understand that a cultural context may be at play, but likewise there is a cultural context to the message and actions of the Ku Klux Klan.

It doesn't make it any better.

[samuratt]

There really are some bizarre opinions on this thread. Yes, the New Zealand rugby team is called the All Blacks, due to the colour of their strip, and the team contains several black players. What on earth has that got to do with this discussion? How can you compare it with a group of spectators 'blacking-up' and hurling racist insults at a black sportsman?

Go back to the begining of the thread and read everything in context, you may find your answer then.

[SGWilko]

What does the hamilton's have to do with this??

Ask those spanish 'fans' that question, its got me stumped too!

Just as a little tid-bit on this particular example. It is my understanding that JC DeM bolted because he thought he was about to be nicked for outstaying his visa. If he had not been here when his visa ran out, or if he had not tried to do a runner, who knows what would have happened.

And if the Police look-out hadn't gone for a piss....

What happened was a tragedy due to the poor leadership of the operation.

It was many bad things, but it wasn't racially motivated.

Now, if only the police had 'blacked' themselves up, they could have had a cultural context to excuse it!

[samuratt]

i understand that you are not condoning the actions of these people.

I can also understand that a cultural context may be at play, but likewise there is a cultural context to the message and actions of the Ku Klux Klan.

It doesn't make it any better.

For second time in a row. That is the point exactly. The context helps you to explain some actions, but does not act as an excuse nor should make them look better.

Anyway you can't compare a bunch of morons yelling "black" to someone with a buch of guys burning people just because of the colour of his skin.

[SGWilko]

I really got scared now!!!!

Are you trying to defend the police behaviour??? So when a couple of stupid spanish morons call Hamilton black it is racism, when you shoot down a men, just because he looks suspicious due to the colour of his skin is just self defense and country preservation?????

FADHH.

[SGWilko]

bunch of morons yelling "black" to someone with a buch of guys burning people just because of the colour of his skin.

Are both racists.

[SGWilko]

And if the Police look-out hadn't gone for a piss....

What happened was a tragedy due to the poor leadership of the operation.

It was many bad things, but it wasn't racially motivated.

Now, if only the police had 'blacked' themselves up, they could have had a cultural context to excuse it!

Ooops, oh dear. Always the bloody the way innit, nothing happens for yonks, but when you slip off for a waz........

You are right, it was a spectacularly good example of bad leadership/planning/management, but not racist, not by a longshot.

[samuratt]

Are both racists.

Yes, like you!

[SGWilko]

Yes, like you!

:confused:

[Mikeall]

Racism is a complex issue cos no one agrees on it's definition and its importance and this seems to depend on the personal experience of it and the opinions of those around them. Sometimes people have contradicting opinions, some may be very against using racial swear words but at the same time believe that a particular race is lazy/ all terrorists/ criminals. On the other hand some people casually use racial swear words and/or regularly label people as black / white etc while having no ill feeling towards any race. Which of these two examples is most racist?

Back to the issue it hand, groups of people chanting about someones race or family is very unpleasant as it is done in a negative way. A better way for all concerned is to be positive about a driver rather than negative about his rival. It reflects better on the supporter, the track, the country (although suggesting that Spanish people are racist as a result of this would in fact be the most racist conclusion that could possible be drawn from this incident) and F1 and all motorsport in general.

Too often supporters of F1 drivers focus negatively on other drivers and often lazily use national or racial stereotypes (ice cold Finn, fiery Latin temprament). Maybe this incident will help people look at the things they say.

[samuratt]

Are both racists.

Yes, sure! infact both deserve to be shot eight times in the back!

[MAX_THRUST]

samuratt

You should be banned from this site for such drivel..
]
The guy that was shot was not black.....olivie skinned, He was an illegal immigrant, his time was up he should not have been in the country. The fact he got shot is a tradegy don't cheapen that loss of life wife your racist rants, of insanity.

Get a grip ...................

[samuratt]

Racism is a complex issue cos no one agrees on it's definition and its importance and this seems to depend on the personal experience of it and the opinions of those around them. Sometimes people have contradicting opinions, some may be very against using racial swear words but at the same time believe that a particular race is lazy/ all terrorists/ criminals. On the other hand some people casually use racial swear words and/or regularly label people as black / white etc while having no ill feeling towards any race. Which of these two examples is most racist?

Back to the issue it hand, groups of people chanting about someones race or family is very unpleasant as it is done in a negative way. A better way for all concerned is to be positive about a driver rather than negative about his rival. It reflects better on the supporter, the track, the country (although suggesting that Spanish people are racist as a result of this would in fact be the most racist conclusion that could possible be drawn from this incident) and F1 and all motorsport in general.

Too often supporters of F1 drivers focus negatively on other drivers and often lazily use national or racial stereotypes (ice cold Finn, fiery Latin temprament). Maybe this incident will help people look at the things they say.

Nice post mate :up:

[Mark]

I think it's sad that, in 2008, we still have to deal with racist abuse, at least it's not the mainstream any more.

Lewis of course won't let anything like this affect him.

[MAX_THRUST]

Drop the london shooting, this has to do with Spanish fans shouting abuse at Lewis because of his colour.

Identify those fans and ban them from all events. If that doesn't work prevent the Spanish drivers from scoring any points at events where it happens.

I think it's sad that, in 2008, we still have to deal with racist abuse, at least it's not the mainstream any more.

Lewis of course won't let anything like this affect him.

I endorse the first statement.

As for the second, I think it will effect him....but not in the negative way that it was hoped for by these morons (I'll stop calling them 'fans' as they are not).

It will be an extra motivation.

So, well done Morons....you've just made your enemy stronger.

[samuratt]

. If that doesn't work prevent the Spanish drivers from scoring any points at events where it happens.

That sounds like racist to me!!!

learn to ask before shooting in the back :D

[Bagwan]

Mimes are white .
And , I don't trust them .

Me , I'm kinda pinkish .

Every last one of you all could be black , and I wouldn't know .

And , what about Conrad Black ? I don't trust him either .
But then there's "Blackie and the Rodeo Kings" , and they rock .

I have 3 black cats and a black dog . White ones get dirty too quickly . Is that being racist ?

[maxu05]

I would not be too worried if I was Lewis. No matter what the Spanish fans said, he will still pocket millions of dollars. I don't worry about racism these days. I have hairy arms, and in China, most dudes have no hair on their body, so many of my students call me Monkeyboy. Now, I could get all riled up over it, but, I realise that I am different, so why should I be upset. I tell my students that I have my own jumper/sweater. They still call me Monkeyboy :laugh: , cheeky little buggers.

[markabilly]

one can rise above it or sink beneath it
the goal of such behavior is NOT to rise above it, but it is your choice

[Bagwan]

So , I guess nobody wants to contribute to the "Send them to Silverstone fund" ?

Did you hear the one about the four guys who thought F1 was a racial series ?
They thought it was all about "race" , when it was all about "racing" .

If a commentator was drunk , and couldn't pronounce drivers names properly , would he be guilty of racial slurs ?

[SGWilko]

So , I guess nobody wants to contribute to the "Send them to Silverstone fund" ?

Did you hear the one about the four guys who thought F1 was a racial series ?
They thought it was all about "race" , when it was all about "racing" .

If a commentator was drunk , and couldn't pronounce drivers names properly , would he be guilty of racial slurs ?

Ask Murray W that question. When JH first started commentating, he was regularly pi55ed during his broadcasts.

NB - Anyone know the name of Barnes Wallis' dog.........

Ask Murray W that question. When JH first started commentating, he was regularly pi55ed during his broadcasts.

NB - Anyone know the name of Barnes Wallis' dog.........

Bouncer?

Oh, hold on....that was Charlene's.

[SGWilko]

Bouncer?

Oh, hold on....that was Charlene's.

My mistake, it was actually Gibson's dog. But is was clearly named when the country was less PC, and we still had something of an empire left.

[Osella]

"Spanish fans are aiming their abuse at McLaren and Hamilton because they feel that former world champion Fernando Alonso was treated unfairly when he drove for the Woking based team last year"

Not sure Autosport is helping here....it is a minority of Spanish 'fans' surely? Not 'Spanish fans' in their entirety as that article could be seen as suggesting?

That said, it is quite correct for the FIA to be taking the matter very seriously.


It is correct for the FIA to take this seriously, however I think you are correct in thiking a lot of the coverage of this isn't helping, and a lot of the reaction of forum members seems to be influenced by that - compare to Fandango who was actually trying to tell people what was going on as he saw it sitting in those same grandstands.

But statements from Autosport like that, and from the BBC such as
"The former world champion complained last season that McLaren were favouring Hamilton and fell out with the Mercedes-powered team when they refused to grant him special status(A gross oversimplification at the very least!). He now drives for Renault. "
and "(Some) were chanting nasty stuff and booing him when he made his way from the garage to the McLaren area at the back. We've never seen that at Formula One events" are purely wrong.
Damon Hill received death threats pre-Hockenheim 1994 and was booed and abused both then and 1995, likewise Michael Schumacher recieved the same and worse treatment from the crowd at Silverstone from 1994 to 1999 at least. I clearly remember the cheers when he crashed in 1999, and the fact that he was referred to as 'The Nazi' by some of the press for years and years after 1994.

But of course, that wasn't racist, so it must have been ok... :rolleyes:

Shame the British press wasn't so interested in reporting those sorts of incidents at that time. So keep a sense of perspective, particularly those of you who are British and Hamilton fans, did you complain so loudly when Hill received death threats and abuse? Were you bothered when Michael Schumacher received abuse at Silverstone from the British crowd?.. If yes, fair enough, but if not, perhaps consider how this is being reported.

This sort of thing has gone on in all sport for a long time, insults are insults and people who are intent on acting this way just pick the easiest thing to use in their attempts to abuse sports people, whether that is a historic fact about their country (poms, nazis, criminals, northern/southern, hick, non-yankee etc) or about their physical appearance (black, white, fat, big-eared, ugly etc). Most of this is not seriously deep-rooted prejudice, just something that is an easy target for morons (generally) to use in an attempt to be insulting.

IMO, of course.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64979

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64981

[Mark]

While I'm not condoning the likes of death threats, there is a world of difference to disliking a driver because he's your favourite drivers opposition, and disliking him because of his race.

[Osella]

While I'm not condoning the likes of death threats, there is a world of difference to disliking a driver because he's your favourite drivers opposition, and disliking him because of his race.

Yes, but what I am saying is that I think these Spanish fans are doing the former, and using the latter as the method, rather than the reason. If Hamilton was Brazilian and white for example, I think he would recieve the same level of abuse (just as Hill/Schumacher did), but it would be differently directed, using a different excuse other than colour. Perhaps next season we will see...

Not trying to turn a blind eye, but there is a world if difference between true irrational racism and people using a physical appearance or someone's background as a device with which to try and inflict verbal abuse.

[Priorat]

Let me say that I have to deal with people like that in my workplace.
Where now they say f*** black, they said f*** nazi in 2006 and f*** finn in 2005. They even call me f*** catalan because I don't support their spanish driver.
It's racism, but they are not aware of it. They have some kind of mental problem that makes them hate everybody that is not like them.
In fact, some of their idols are black football players.
Just feel sad for them. They are not F1 fans. They are just ill people.

[bontebempo]

Hamilton could not care less. Pay me $20,000,000 a year to race cars and you can call me what you like.

[Big Ben]

It is amazing just what proportion this thread took. I for one don't see it to be such a tragedy. That kind of behavior it's pretty stupid but this earth is populated by a large mass of dumb people.

To suggest that this is somehow worst than killing a man for having darker skin is even more stupid. And to suggest it was somehow his fault too because he was illegal immigrant that's too stupid to put it in words. (since its still okay to be prejudiced against nationalities I'd say only a british could say something like that)

[Big Ben]

Let me say that I have to deal with people like that in my workplace.
Where now they say f*** black, they said f*** nazi in 2006 and f*** finn in 2005. They even call me f*** catalan because I don't support their spanish driver.
It's racism, but they are not aware of it. They have some kind of mental problem that makes them hate everybody that is not like them.
In fact, some of their idols are black football players.
Just feel sad for them. They are not F1 fans. They are just ill people.

catalan nationalist... now that's really sane.

[Dave B]

Hamilton probably does care - not for himself, he's got thicker skin than that, but because I'd imagine he'd disappointed that a tiny minority of idiots threaten to tarnish the name of the vast majority of Spanish F1 fans.

With all the brouhaha over Lewis' relationship with Fernando last year it became blindingly obvious that the Spanish are passionate in supporting their man, and this occasionally manifested itself in some foolish comments on forums and in the press. I'm equally sure that Spaniards found some of the comments by Hamilton fans equally rediculous at times - but in the overwhelming majority of cases it was good-natured banter.

For a small group of mindless idiots to decend into this kind of racist behaviour is unsettling, but I'm certain that they are neither true F1 fans nor representative of the view of most Spaniards.

I'm glad that the FIA have moved so swiftly to reinforce the stance that this will not be tolerated. Hopefully this can be nipped in the bud - it would be deplorable if the actions of a few resulted in the loss of the Spanish GP(s).

[Priorat]

catalan nationalist... now that's really sane.

Hey, what is your problem? you always come with something like this when I post. There are are other forums to talk about politics or geography.
It seems you had some kind of bad experience during your time in Spain.

[Big Ben]

no not really... I've had actually a very good time there. It's just that here we are talking about racism and you call this people ill while in the very same post you make some remarks that show the same stupid prejudices except that in your case they are of a different nature. How is it worse to talk about "those blacks" from talking about "their spanish driver" Since when is it wrong to be spanish??

[Roamy]

Hamilton could not care less. Pay me $20,000,000 a year to race cars and you can call me what you like.

this kind of sums it up. LH get a ton of press and sympathy while all the world do gooders cry what a crime it is. LH doesn't have time to even piss on these kind of people. He will handle this crap just like Tiger Woods while we try to have something to talk about.

If these guys would have had we love Lewis on their shirts they would have been elected to the Martin Luther foundation.

Move on and worry about you own ass because Lewis has a lot of dead presidents covering his!!

[bontebempo]

this kind of sums it up. LH get a ton of press and sympathy while all the world do gooders cry what a crime it is. LH doesn't have time to even piss on these kind of people. He will handle this crap just like Tiger Woods while we try to have something to talk about.

If these guys would have had we love Lewis on their shirts they would have been elected to the Martin Luther foundation.

Move on and worry about you own ass because Lewis has a lot of dead presidents covering his!!

Could not agree more!!! Good place to close this thread and talk about something else!

[Priorat]

no not really... I've had actually a very good time there. It's just that here we are talking about racism and you call this people ill while in the very same post you make some remarks that show the same stupid prejudices except that in your case they are of a different nature. How is it worse to talk about "those blacks" from talking about "their spanish driver" Since when is it wrong to be spanish??

Where is the offence in saying their spanish driver (that in fact is how they call him) and where is the similarities in calling someone "you f*** black?

Where I said it is wrong to be spanish and why do you reply to me when in this thread other forumers have referred to those morons as " the spanish fans" .
You just read my posts with different glasses and don't know why

[I am evil Homer]

Apologies if this has laready been mentioned...I skimmed the first 5 pages.

Painting your face black is an insult. It stems from old muscial halls where white people would use boot polish to "black up" to imitate slaves - and they were called Gollywogs. From where you got the racists insult "wog".

[OTA]

My 2 cents,
Is this behavior to be tolerated?
No. Controlling what people say is neither possible nor recomendable, but to stop banners and signs like that is an obligation to circuit, country and all officials involved.
Did Spanish officials acted promptly to stop it?
I beleive so. From what I read, track officials took measures and have come forward with an statement that leaves little doubt.
Spanish press, normally critizised, were the ones reporting the mess, making clear(at least is my opinion) that they are journalists, not irrational fans.
Should we worry?
I don't think so, Spain is a modern, democratic and tolerant country. There is not one sinlge law in which race is a handicap, indeed there are a few positive dicrimination ones. No political party has made an issue with race in the short democratic history of Spain.
Should FA come forward?
I really don't know. If he does may be the politically correct lovers will have more respect for him, but on the other hand it would give racist publicity they don't deserve. I think FA should let politicians and officials do something. But of course, he should not be related in any way with the "racist".

Cheers
David

[BDunnell]

Hamilton could not care less. Pay me $20,000,000 a year to race cars and you can call me what you like.

I would doubt that racism or similar abuse really hurt less the more you get paid.

[BDunnell]

I guess some of you still don't understand Markabilly's point .

Allow a racist to shock you , and you play into his/her hand .

What's the answer then? Ignore racism and hope it goes away?

Racism is, as I said earlier, more shocking to our eyes and ears now because there's less of it around, and, thankfully, it's less acceptable than it was.

[Bagwan]

What's the answer then? Ignore racism and hope it goes away?

Racism is, as I said earlier, more shocking to our eyes and ears now because there's less of it around, and, thankfully, it's less acceptable than it was.


My kid once came home , upset with some childish mocking he was getting at school .

I asked why it was getting to him .

He told me they knew that what they were doing bugged him .

I asked him how they knew .

That was when the light came on , and he's stood above bullies , ignoring them ever since .




This is not to say that these guys don't deserve to be banned from the track . They do , clearly .

But they don't deserve such venom . It shows they won .

They deserve only pity . Laugh at them , not with them .

[Tazio]

Hamilton's common sense response:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/8200

[Dzeidzei]

Hamilton's common sense response:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/8200

What a clever response. Makes everyone hate those assholes in Barcelona.

[fandango]

While I'm not condoning the likes of death threats, there is a world of difference to disliking a driver because he's your favourite drivers opposition, and disliking him because of his race.

I'll try and explain it again. These clowns are acting against their favourite driver's opposition. They're stupid, but not racially motivated.

If (and it may be hard to imagine) Alonso had won the WDC last year in a McLaren and was still happily Lewis' teammate, do you really think these guys would have shown up to insult Hamilton? If you believe the answer is yes, then you have been misled by the media.

[SGWilko]

Apologies if this has laready been mentioned...I skimmed the first 5 pages.

Painting your face black is an insult. It stems from old muscial halls where white people would use boot polish to "black up" to imitate slaves - and they were called Gollywogs. From where you got the racists insult "wog".

I was led to believe that was an abbreviation for west oriental gentlemen....

[bontebempo]

I would doubt that racism or similar abuse really hurt less the more you get paid.

I think it does. These people are privaliged people. A select 22 drivers are picked to do one of the best jobs in the world for serious money.

If i was called a black **** i would think 'Losers, im on loads of cash you sad ******s, call me what you like. Sorry, whats that? Get in a McLaren and test it out? ok' LOL. AND everyone feels sorry for him. Arrrr, poor Lewis. Dont make me laugh. You think he actually gives a ****? I think not.

[SparkyKate]

I am seriously beginning to wonder who has been spiking the water at the F1 venues this past year, the behaviour of most of the teams/drivers was bad enough last year and now the fans (granted the stupid amongst them) have got in on the act.

Anyone stupid enough to start bringing race into yet another sport should be put up against a wall and shot just so that such pond life cannot procreate. And i find it amazing that its all because of Fandango as they are practically the same colour! Colour blind as well as stupid, nice! Seriously though, any hardened Fandango fans who think this is acceptable, i can tell you that, much like fandangos own facial fluff, it really isnt. Blaming Hamilton for Fandango's problems is also a little naive. He bought it on himself by not giving Hamilton the credit and then playing catch up all season, he didnt give Hamiltons years with McLaren the due warning, lets face it, if he had been top dog, he would have got the benefit, not Hamilton. Ron can smell a pound, but he aint stupid.

Frankly, i think theyre both a pair of total and utters, especially as they are the reason i no longer support McLaren after 20years.

To everyone who has got on their high horse though, dont concern yourself with the pathetic small minded (and other areas) idiots, Hamilton certainly shouldnt considering his fan base back home. Fandango on the other hand should get off his arse and sort out his fans, his silence just validates this disgusting behaviour.

Oh and for the record, never is it ok to cover urself in black paint and pretend to be black for the purpous of being a rascist piece of ****. End of.

[SparkyKate]

I'll try and explain it again. These clowns are acting against their favourite driver's opposition. They're stupid, but not racially motivated.

If (and it may be hard to imagine) Alonso had won the WDC last year in a McLaren and was still happily Lewis' teammate, do you really think these guys would have shown up to insult Hamilton? If you believe the answer is yes, then you have been misled by the media.

I think you're missing the big point here...i think Hamilton is a t**t but i do not cover myself in black paint and write racial slogans all over the place as it is not his race i have a problem with, just the smug and crap behaviour etc etc. Yes they are there because of Fandango, but instead of mocking Hamilton, they picked out his race, something that has bugger all to do with racing, and decided to make a very rascist statement. It is disgusting behaviour and they should be banned.

[Roamy]

Jesus H Christ now they are talking about canceling the two Spanish GPs
How stupid can they get. The lawsuits would make McClaren's fine look pale in comparison. This F1 has no limit to their arrogance - they are worse than the guys in the stands.

[donKey jote]

bunch of donkeys in the stands, but I agree with fandango that those carnaval fans in the picture probably never even thought their costume could be so offensive to some. Idiots can't even spell familly :s
The real racists are those who refer to "el negrito", "puto negro" or "conguito" in everyday talk - I'm ashamed to say I even know people who use these terms and think they're being funny. But I don't think even the majority of them actually realise what they are saying and how moronic it makes them appear. :rolleyes:

Some people in Spain have quite some catching up to do, yes, but Spain as a whole is improving... hell now you mostly get real black guys to be "King Baltasar" in the Xmas shopping malls or the 3 kings processions in January. And "conguitos (http://www.educared.net/PrimerasNoticias/hemero/2003/marzo/soci/congui/congui.htm)" aren't marketed as such anymore - since ~2003 I believe :)

Good job Hamilton isn't Rumanian though... then you would have probably seen ignorant malicious Spanish racism at its worst !

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[fandango]

I am seriously beginning to wonder who has been spiking the water at the F1 venues this past year, the behaviour of most of the teams/drivers was bad enough last year and now the fans (granted the stupid amongst them) have got in on the act.

Anyone stupid enough to start bringing race into yet another sport should be put up against a wall and shot just so that such pond life cannot procreate. And i find it amazing that its all because of Fandango as they are practically the same colour! Colour blind as well as stupid, nice! Seriously though, any hardened Fandango fans who think this is acceptable, i can tell you that, much like fandangos own facial fluff, it really isnt. Blaming Hamilton for Fandango's problems is also a little naive. He bought it on himself by not giving Hamilton the credit and then playing catch up all season, he didnt give Hamiltons years with McLaren the due warning, lets face it, if he had been top dog, he would have got the benefit, not Hamilton. Ron can smell a pound, but he aint stupid.

Frankly, i think theyre both a pair of total and utters, especially as they are the reason i no longer support McLaren after 20years.

To everyone who has got on their high horse though, dont concern yourself with the pathetic small minded (and other areas) idiots, Hamilton certainly shouldnt considering his fan base back home. Fandango on the other hand should get off his arse and sort out his fans, his silence just validates this disgusting behaviour.

Oh and for the record, never is it ok to cover urself in black paint and pretend to be black for the purpous of being a rascist piece of ****. End of.

Who is fandango? Apart from being my nickname, that is. Are you refering to Fernando Alonso? Why do you call him that? Something to do with his background, perhaps? (Asturias...?)

[BeansBeansBeans]

I think it does. These people are privaliged people. A select 22 drivers are picked to do one of the best jobs in the world for serious money.

What's the earnings threshold over which racial abuse should be tolerated? £50k per annum? £500k? £1m? £2m? £50m? Come on, where do we draw the line?

How bizarre.

[Sleeper]

This story shows that Neanderthals still exist all over the world, not just council estates.

[Valve Bounce]

Great thread. I am glad that this topic has been discussed extensively and with much emotion. From reading it, I see that nearly everyone in this forum abhors racism, which is great.

Just to correct a misapprehension, the guy shot in the London Underground was Brazilian, not Asian. He was shot because of a number of bungled buggerups by the London Keystone Cops and a hysterical cop who jumped on him and shot him eight times in the head.

I had discussed this extensively in the original thread on this subject - the fact that the London police tried to cover up this whole thing by saying that he was a terrorist suspect was a subject of an extensive investigation/enquiry, although I am not sure what the outcome was.

But he sure as heck wasn't Asian; but then our guys here did try to incarcerate Mohamed Haniff even though the judiciary wanted to set him free.

Getting back to the original post here, yes!! it was disgusting the way these genital craniums behaved in Barca, and I think most here didn't find it amusing nor appropriate.

[Ian McC]

I think it does. These people are privaliged people. A select 22 drivers are picked to do one of the best jobs in the world for serious money.

If i was called a black **** i would think 'Losers, im on loads of cash you sad ******s, call me what you like. Sorry, whats that? Get in a McLaren and test it out? ok' LOL. AND everyone feels sorry for him. Arrrr, poor Lewis. Dont make me laugh. You think he actually gives a ****? I think not.

I doubt you would gain much comfort from your bank balance when standing in front of such an abusive crowd. You seem to think money makes people less human, I think you are wide of the mark there.

[DonnieDarco]

I'm very disappointed by the attitudes of some people on this thread. Racism is racism. This was a clear case of it. Honestly, you can see why it's alive and well can't you, when so many people seem to be in denial, or have this whole, it was a joke, or they didn't mean it attitude.

It didn't look very amusing to me, and it's never going to be ok to behave like that.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm very disappointed by the attitudes of some people on this thread. Racism is racism. This was a clear case of it. Honestly, you can see why it's alive and well can't you, when so many people seem to be in denial, or have this whole, it was a joke, or they didn't mean it attitude.



It didn't look very amusing to me, and it's never going to be ok to behave like that.

Agreed!!

I don't think the Motorsport Organisations in Spain nor the FIA thinks it's that funny either.

I don't see why anyone in this world should have to suffer any form of racial abuse or taunts.

[ShiftingGears]

Drop the london shooting, this has to do with Spanish fans shouting abuse at Lewis because of his colour.


No, it isn't. Theyre hurling abuse (may or may not be jocular) because they felt Alonso was wronged by Hamilton and McLaren.

[maxu05]

I have trouble understanding racism. I was brought up to respect everyone. I see people how they are. My father told me that a good person is a good person, and an asshole is an asshole, it doesn't make a difference what colour the person is or what they beleive in. I was working in a hotel in Sydney as the concierge (oh, about ten years ago) and this new porter came up to me to introduce himself. I said G'day, he introduced himself and then said "I'm Jewish". I replied, "what country is that then ? I could not beleive that he had to announce that, like it makes no difference to me what he is. I don't think I would walk up to someone and say "Hi, I'm John, Church of England by the way. I think race, religeon, country are always touchy subjects, and will be for quite some time. Everyone has a different opinion on these subjects. I do agree, that the fans on this occasion were well out of order.

[leopard]

They maybe on the other hand Hamilton or the black car supporters, soccer fans usually make their face colored according to color of team they support. :D

Besides, If they claim as Hamilton's family I doubt Hamilton will admit them, because neither he has terrible looking family nor wearing glasses. :D

[wmcot]

From reading the comments on this forum and the articles posted on the 'net (I imagine there are quite a few in the press throughout Europe, too) it looks like these idiots have won!

They get a ton of press publicity and stir up heated debates in public places and forums. I doubt they even thought far enough ahead to realize they would be this famous (or infamous) in just a few days after their stupid rantings.

The whole issue is not worth talking about. Racism is alive and well in all corners of the world. So is national and religious persecution. Here in the US, we are picking presidential candidates. People are willing to accept a black presidential candidate, a woman candidate, a Baptist candidate, but they could never be brought to vote for a Mormon candidate!

Pretty much all racial, religious, national and any other form of intolerance are caused by ignorance. We fear those that we don't understand. The more we feed the fires by arguing over the details of the issue, the more hostilities grow.

The ignorant few know how to push the buttons of the "educated" masses.

(I'll probably have to change my sig now. It was meant to be funny until this happened.)

[Azumanga Davo]

They maybe on the other hand Hamilton or the black car supporters, soccer fans usually make their face colored according to color of team they support. :D

Besides, If they claim as Hamilton's family I doubt Hamilton will admit them, because neither he has terrible looking family nor wearing glasses. :D

Nor being the biggest Alonso fan of late. :)

[leopard]

Nor being the biggest Alonso fan of late. :)
Do you wear glasses? ;)

[call_me_andrew]

I don't want to read all 9 pages of this, so I'll make my Monty Python reference and go.

Hamilton wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

[leopard]

Discrimination is not because someone is black, people tend to assemble into the same group of their own, and tend to discriminate the group of minority because they feel have strength to do so.

It can happen everywhere in any aspect of life. We can find discrimination once chickens found ducks among the new chickens, although they were white or any colorful ducks. :)

[Mifune]

When you resort to racial taunts to express your anger towards an individual then you debase both yourself and the entire race that that person belongs to, that’s the issue, not whether Hamilton is upset or hurt, he’s a big boy and he’s heard it all before I’m sure, (the great British public are no saints in this regard)


The reason why this is so serious is because of the message it sends to young black or Asian kids who watch formula one or are dreaming of a future in the sport, (inspired by Hamilton or otherwise)
So yes the FIA does have to get medieval on this if it wants to ensure F1`s image as a sport that welcomes all comers, and is not just a white middle class boys club.


To talk about anything else or make clumsy attempts at ironic humour serves only to muddy the water and undermine the seriousness of what occurred, some posters need to be a little less vain or at least cultivate a slightly more sophisticated sense of humour.

[Roamy]

well the only way to get rid of racism is through interracial sex and having children. So you guys take Ethiopia Somali Kenya and Chad. I will take Mexico Costa Rica Bolivia and Peru

[leopard]

No perfect choice, the first group more tasteful. ;)

[leopard]

Don't get me wrong, I don't have avoidance on food, I like the spicy of Arab and Africa. :p :

[raikk]

absoloutly terrible... I wonder how Hamilton feels about this..

[ArrowsFA1]

I wonder how Hamilton feels about this..
Hamilton saddened by racist abuse (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7225523.stm)

[bontebempo]

What's the earnings threshold over which racial abuse should be tolerated? £50k per annum? £500k? £1m? £2m? £50m? Come on, where do we draw the line?

How bizarre.

Missing the point. Lewis could not care less. He is living his dream and earning serious money.

Lets say you have a hot wife, 3 gorgeous kids and a lovely 6 bedroom house. Great (best in world) job with security for the rest of your life. A few prats walk by and calls you a C***. Are you really gonna give a damn? No, your not.

Racism happends all the time everywhere. LH has surly had his fair share growing up in the UK. But now he is the squeaky clean racing driver in the public eye, he is milking it by saying he is 'saddened' by it? LOL.

Wonder if the puppeteers controlling LH told him what to say? Bet they said 'ok Lewis, this is great, milk this one'. Bernie might orcastrate his WDC now exactly how Channel 4 made sure Shilpa Shetty won Big Brother after her race row.

[Ranger]

I think this article (unlike most shown here) captures both sides of the story pretty well. It's a shame that because of a few individuals, government ministers have decided to "widen" the racism scandal as well.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080205090829.shtml


The Formula One racism scandal involving Lewis Hamilton has turned into a media slanging match between Britain and Spain, as both accuse the other side of wielding the more serious prejudices.

English tabloid The Sun published photos of spectators at the Circuit de Catalunya wearing black makeup and wigs, while the Times accused the Spanish media of 'overlooking' the vile incident.

"The Spanish media all but ignored the controversy over Hamilton's treatment in Barcelona," the London newspaper claimed.

But swarms of prominent Spanish newspapers roundly condemned the abuse of F1's only black driver, in step with the country's motor sports authority and the Spanish Grand Prix venue.

La Vanguardia called for a 'zero tolerance' attitude to racist 'lunatics,' and El Mundo said Montmelo had been the scene of an 'embarrassing spectacle' for Spain.

Britain's The Independent, however, said the incident revealed an underlying racist element to modern Spanish culture.

"It's pretty clear that they are decades behind Britain when it comes to attitudes towards race," an editorial read.

A headline in the Daily Telegraph announced that "Racism is Spanish sport", declaring that "there is something seriously wrong with their authorities who have not taught the masses that such behaviour is unacceptable.

"This may be because the authorities do not see such behaviour as unacceptable," it added.



A writer for Diario AS slammed the British press and said the bad behaviour of a dozen Spaniards at the weekend had been reported as the work of thousands.

"Generalisation is a dangerous habit, which often leads to wrong conclusions and is almost always unfair," the columnist wrote.

"Especially because an uncontrolled individual can cause tremendous prejudice against a whole group, as we are used to seeing at many sporting events."

Another AS article said the Barcelona incident had morphed into a 'disproportionate snowball' in the press, and named the 'English press' as having denounced Spanish sports fans as 'racist because of a few isolated' wrongdoers.

Circuit de Catalunya boss Ramon Praderas also accused the media of "in some cases taking the incident out of context."

"To say we are a racist country is an exaggeration," he said. "There were many more people who took happy photos with Hamilton.

"The history of Spanish sport is full of examples such as these and a few individuals will not spoil this for us."

Who said F1 was in for a less controversial season in 2008? It hasn't even started yet... :\

[Mark]

I think discrimination in Spain is a problem, even between Spanish regions. They recently changed their car numberplate system so it didn't identify which region the car came from, as people from other regions had had their cars targeted :s

[bontebempo]

some of my best friends are Indian or black

[samuratt]

I think discrimination in Spain is a problem, even between Spanish regions. They recently changed their car numberplate system so it didn't identify which region the car came from, as people from other regions had had their cars targeted :s

I think the problem is:
a) you don't know a thing of what you are talking! and this isn't new.
b) you maybe intoxicated by what you read. Maybe using your brain instead of just reading the pathetic british press would lead you to better understanding of things and therefore more constructive opinions.

In fact i have seen a couple of racist comments in this thread that you, as a moderator, should have done something about them. Maybe the fact that your press is accusing spain of being racist doesn't help you to have an unbiased opinion on this matter.

[ArrowsFA1]

Circuit boss Ramon Padreras has said:

"Last Friday, ten people with a megaphone behaved in a unacceptable way against the British driver."

"Right away, we kicked two of them out, we cleared the stands right in front of McLaren's garage and we decided to take measures for Saturday, closing up the terrace right above them. The problem was solved then."

"In no way can the behaviour of ten fans represent the 55,000 who enjoyed the three days and knew how to behave."

"I think that in some cases the behaviour of some 10 or 15 people has been taken out of context, and we are in complete disagreement with that information."

"We are against any racist or xenophobic demonstration, even if it's from a few, and we are not going to allow a repeat of this in the future."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64987

:up:

[Ranger]

So it turns out the circuit directors were acting responsibly and did the right thing.

Can the FIA withdraw that threat now?

The blow up about this is thoroughly ridiculous. Especially when politicians get involved and want to pump more hot air into the grossly over-inflated balloon.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080205092645.shtml

[redson]

I think discrimination in Spain is a problem, even between Spanish regions. They recently changed their car numberplate system so it didn't identify which region the car came from, as people from other regions had had their cars targeted :s

It was changed because we ran out of numbers and we choose the new EU plates.

[OTA]

Some things must be thought one or 2 times before posting them Mark.
Spain is a country of 40 some million people, that freeely elects a goverment every 4 years and in which never, I repeat, never in the last 30 years of democracy there has been a law that could be labeled as racist.
Of course there are stupid, uneducated and why not racist people, but the ones with the power they are not.

Cheers
David

[pino]

In fact i have seen a couple of racist comments in this thread that you, as a moderator, should have done something about them. Maybe the fact that your press is accusing spain of being racist doesn't help you to have an unbiased opinion on this matter.

If you feel insulted by some racist comment, then please report those posts and we Mods will take care if necessary. Mark is the Administrator of these forums, not a Moderator, so isn't his job to take care of those posts ;)

[Big Ben]

"It's pretty clear that they are decades behind Britain when it comes to attitudes towards race," an editorial read.

What a joke. I still remember how the British press tarnished Romania for half a year when this country entered the UE because they were afraid the entire population will move to the promised land. On the 1st of January 2007
reporters were waiting in a Romanian airport to see the masses assaulting the airplanes. They were pretty amazed to see that everybody had better things to do.
And now they talk about how far they are... decades ahead... of nazi germany maybe....

[Mark]

I declare Godwin!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[samuratt]

If you feel insulted by some racist comment, then please report those posts and we Mods will take care if necessary. Mark is the Administrator of these forums, not a Moderator, so isn't his job to take care of those posts ;)

Thank you Pino. I do not feel insulted i rather feel prosecuted! :(
Next time I feel like giving my opinion about any of the Administrator's post i will think about it twice...

It is sad you let people in this forum post comments reinforcing the idea that Spaniards are racist and we can not even stand up and say it's wrong...
:S

In fact if we do, we get ourselves a ticket... Nice way to get a thread about racism going on indeed.

[ArrowsFA1]

It is sad you let people in this forum post comments reinforcing the idea that Spaniards are racist and we can not even stand up and say it's wrong......
To be fair to the mods, samuratt, they do not "let" people post those kind of comments. People post messages before the mods see them or have a chance to react to them. Reporting offensive or insulting posts helps them do what is sometimes a difficult job.

[pino]

Thank you Pino. I do not feel insulted i rather feel prosecuted! :(
Next time I feel like giving my opinion about any of the Administrator's post i will think about it twice...

It is sad you let people in this forum post comments reinforcing the idea that Spaniards are racist and we can not even stand up and say it's wrong...
:S

In fact if we do, we get ourselves a ticket... Nice way to get a thread about racism going on indeed.

Prosecuted by who ? we Mods ? explain how please...

Although Mark is the Admin, he can be wrong too, but posting that isn't new he doesn't know what he's talking about...that's an insult. And it's not tollerated in here, as you know very well. And for what I've been reading in this thread so far, most members didn't generalized about Spaniards. But then again I've might missed a couple of posts so please report them.

Personally I think people from Spain are cool and not racist at all, but idiots are everywhere today...

[bontebempo]

Personally I think people from Spain are cool and not racist at all, but idiots are everywhere today...[/QUOTE]

LOL. Spanish people are not racist? Yeah, and im gonna get pole at the first race of the season LOL

[pino]

Personally I think people from Spain are cool and not racist at all, but idiots are everywhere today...

LOL. Spanish people are not racist? Yeah, and im gonna get pole at the first race of the season LOL[/QUOTE]

I've lived in Spain, so I know what I am talking about...do you ?

[bontebempo]

LOL. Spanish people are not racist? Yeah, and im gonna get pole at the first race of the season LOL

I've lived in Spain, so I know what I am talking about...do you ?[/QUOTE]

yes, my mother is Spanish so go there once every 3 years. Also spent 5 years there from 12-17. Muchas Gracias amigo.

[Roamy]

I think discrimination in Spain is a problem, even between Spanish regions. They recently changed their car numberplate system so it didn't identify which region the car came from, as people from other regions had had their cars targeted :s

And while we are at it - Could you Brits please keep your old people off the beaches in Spain. There is nothing worse than spending all that money to come over and see some hot spanish chick lying on the beach and only see a bunch of British Raisins - disgusting

[A.F.F.]

And while we are at it - Could you Brits please keep your old people off the beaches in Spain. There is nothing worse than spending all that money to come over and see some hot spanish chick lying on the beach and only see a bunch of British Raisins - disgusting

I think I know what you mean Fousto... oh yeah, back in Miami but those raisins weren't British ;)

[Roamy]

I think I know what you mean Fousto... oh yeah, back in Miami but those raisins weren't British ;)

That is why we made "South Beach"

[fandango]

I think discrimination in Spain is a problem, even between Spanish regions. They recently changed their car numberplate system so it didn't identify which region the car came from, as people from other regions had had their cars targeted :s

I'm sorry if it seems I'm jumping on you here, but what has that got to do with these idiots who insulted Hamilton? (Btw, there are many here in Catalonia who seek independence, and even mentioning this area as a "region"
is offensive to them.)

Anyway, this thread has been quite enlightening, and if I may here's a summing up of things.

Everybody on here agrees that racism is wrong.

What many Spanish saw as a stupid insult is seen in many places outside Spain as a serious problem. There is misunderstanding.

The circuit authorities acted correctly by ejecting the worst offenders and restricting access to the stand opposite the McLaren pit.

There were thousands of fans at Montmelò at the weekend, and ranged all round the circuit, but the insults happened at the McLaren pit.

None of this happened last year, not even when Lewis was kicking Alonso's ass in the first half of the season.

And then my opinion:

The insults are not racially motivated, but that is not an excuse or commendation, just an attempt at an explanation. I think this because I was there, and because I don't believe they would have done it if Hamilton and Alonso were friends.

Alonso has consistently refused to speak of Hamilton for months and months now, whereas Lewis has only recently made critical comments about Alonso's behaviour last year.

[A.F.F.]

That is why we made "South Beach"

You should get rid of that thing you have for Latina chicks and trade it to pure Finnish blonds. A charming gentleman like yourself would be a hot thing here in cool Finland :)

[pino]

yes, my mother is Spanish so go there once every 3 years. Also spent 5 years there from 12-17. Muchas Gracias amigo.

Like I said, idiots are everywhere, you must have had bad luck then...

[OTA]

I tell you one problem much larger than racism in Spain. Ignorance, and it seems that it's much more wide spread than racism.

cheers
David

[janneppi]

Anyway, this thread has been quite enlightening, and if I may here's a summing up of things.

Everybody on here agrees that racism is wrong.

What many Spanish saw as a stupid insult is seen in many places outside Spain as a serious problem. There is misunderstanding.

The circuit authorities acted correctly by ejecting the worst offenders and restricting access to the stand opposite the McLaren pit.

There were thousands of fans at Montmelò at the weekend, and ranged all round the circuit, but the insults happened at the McLaren pit.

None of this happened last year, not even when Lewis was kicking Alonso's ass in the first half of the season.

And then my opinion:

The insults are not racially motivated, but that is not an excuse or commendation, just an attempt at an explanation. I think this because I was there, and because I don't believe they would have done it if Hamilton and Alonso were friends.

Sums it up pretty well

[samuratt]

I tell you one problem much larger than racism in Spain. Ignorance, and it seems that it's much more wide spread than racism.

cheers
David

:up:

[bontebempo]

Like I said, idiots are everywhere, you must have had bad luck then...

hope your not calling me an idiot?

[Valentino Rossi Boy]

I think that Spain should aplogse to Lewis Hamilton for the abuse on him.I think it is madness from Spain.It all start when Alonso came to McLaren. I think that McLaren should not have brought Alonso to the team.

[janneppi]

Valentino Rossi Boy, Spain can't be held responsible for the actions of some it's citizens in this case.

[DimitraF1]

:P

[OTA]

Bontebempo

I don't know what Pino meant, but you called me, and another 44 million people, a racist and that's truly idiotic.

Cheers
David

[Valentino Rossi Boy]

Spain can't be held responsible for the actions of some it's citizens in this case. I know this but I maybe wrong

[bontebempo]

Bontebempo

I don't know what Pino meant, but you called me, and another 44 million people, a racist and that's truly idiotic.

Cheers
David


your telling me your not racist in any way? I have been called a spick many times. I dont mind, its part of life, i deal with it! We are all racist in our own ways. Its human nature. Thing is we are all supposed to act like clean living citizens. And you david, are truly idiotic.

Cheers
Bontebempo

[Valve Bounce]

Common guys!! let's cool it a bit here. Personal insults are not the way to go here.

[leopard]

Valentino Rossi Boy, Spain can't be held responsible for the actions of some it's citizens in this case.
True, similarly boy can't be held responsible for any opinion posted here.

[Ranger]

It is correct for the FIA to take this seriously, however I think you are correct in thiking a lot of the coverage of this isn't helping, and a lot of the reaction of forum members seems to be influenced by that - compare to Fandango who was actually trying to tell people what was going on as he saw it sitting in those same grandstands.

But statements from Autosport like that, and from the BBC such as
"The former world champion complained last season that McLaren were favouring Hamilton and fell out with the Mercedes-powered team when they refused to grant him special status(A gross oversimplification at the very least!). He now drives for Renault. "
and "(Some) were chanting nasty stuff and booing him when he made his way from the garage to the McLaren area at the back. We've never seen that at Formula One events" are purely wrong.
Damon Hill received death threats pre-Hockenheim 1994 and was booed and abused both then and 1995, likewise Michael Schumacher recieved the same and worse treatment from the crowd at Silverstone from 1994 to 1999 at least. I clearly remember the cheers when he crashed in 1999, and the fact that he was referred to as 'The Nazi' by some of the press for years and years after 1994.

But of course, that wasn't racist, so it must have been ok... :rolleyes:

Shame the British press wasn't so interested in reporting those sorts of incidents at that time. So keep a sense of perspective, particularly those of you who are British and Hamilton fans, did you complain so loudly when Hill received death threats and abuse? Were you bothered when Michael Schumacher received abuse at Silverstone from the British crowd?.. If yes, fair enough, but if not, perhaps consider how this is being reported.

This sort of thing has gone on in all sport for a long time, insults are insults and people who are intent on acting this way just pick the easiest thing to use in their attempts to abuse sports people, whether that is a historic fact about their country (poms, nazis, criminals, northern/southern, hick, non-yankee etc) or about their physical appearance (black, white, fat, big-eared, ugly etc). Most of this is not seriously deep-rooted prejudice, just something that is an easy target for morons (generally) to use in an attempt to be insulting.

IMO, of course.

Agree 100%. :up:

[pino]

Thread almost cleaned, now please everyone calm down, keep this on topic, and quit personal attacks/insults. Otherwise this thread will be closed and someone will be sent on holiday for a while...

[bontebempo]

Thread almost cleaned, now please everyone calm down, keep this on topic, and quit personal attacks/insults. Otherwise this thread will be closed and someone will be sent on holiday for a while...

well you should listen to yourself and avoid personal attacks...

[Ranger]

On another note, does anyone else think that the thread title should be changed to something impartial?

Such as:
"Hamilton endures racial taunts in Spain"
or
"Hamilton endures racist abuse in Spain"
or
"Racial abuse of Hamilton in Spain"

Because first and foremost, Lewis hasn't suffered from it.

And IMO, a few dickheads out of tens of thousands yelling stuff at someone barely warrants the rather partial term, "suffers", especially as a headline for an article or discussion.

JMO of course.

[leopard]

The title thread can stay as it was, but the foremost Hamilton didn't suffer (at all) from it.

Racism can happen even at the chicken's stall to the duck, it straightens mental of the said person, though. imo.

[wmcot]

This was the case of the ultimate in stupidity of 10 "fans." Stupidity doesn't deserve an audience!

Whether it was racist or just ignorance, if it hadn't been picked up by the press and had been handled quietly by track and/or FIA officials, we wouldn't be having this thread and these handful of idiots wouldn't be getting headlines!

[fandango]

While I agree with wmcot, ths article at least deserves a mention, coming as it does on an extremely pro-Hamilton website.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3119949,00.html

[truefan72]

So many people here miss the point.

The racist taunting has more to do with the attitude of the people than how it affects the individual directed too.

It also denigrates and insults the entire race no matter the feelings of the target. That’s the vileness of racism. Its actions while trying to disparage an individual, are actually offending an entire race. Their actions state that the color of someone's skin is worthy of insults, that their ethnicity/race is worthy of mockery. This is where the taunting crosses the line from an individual to the entire race/ethnic group.

Many of those who can't see comprehend that or fail to see the furor in these actions are usually not the minority or the group being attacked. All too often we here these same people question what the uproar is about. Suffice to say that it is very hard to imagine yourself as that minority or other race. To have to go through life knowing/feeling and experiencing racism and discrimination subtle and overt. It really isn't for them to question what a group finds offensive. If they say it is, then respectfully accept that it is offensive to them and leave it be. There is no point in trying to argue that YOU can't see why THEY are so upset.
The media, institutions and governments do their due diligence on this matter. And thankfully, most of them institute a zero tolerance policy. As to the media it is newsworthy.
Spain of recent has had particular problems with racism. I'm not sure what the deal is. I love going to Spain, especially to Barcelona and Seville. It is a picturesque country today with wonderful food, beautiful cities and excellent football. But they seem to have an indifference towards actions perceived as racist. I'm not sure if it is truly racism, ignorance or general apathy towards the sensitivities of minorities and other races. It is by far not a Spanish problem alone, but they seem to have a serious problem in curbing those behaviors in public arenas or by public people.

Lastly it is ironic that those who can't see the issue with such taunts are the same ones easily offended by any slight to their sub-cultures e.g. Asturians, Catalans, Welsh, Scott, Irish (protestant or catholic), Sardinian, Corsican, Serb, Croat, Bosnian, etc. etc. etc. or other ethnic groups. All too often resulting in unwanted consequences. And this too goes for all races. Look at what's going on in Kenya today. We as humans always look for things to divide us. If that’s what we want to do, fine, but that doesn't give us a license to disparage others unlike us or use their traits as fodder for taunts or hate.

Let's hope that 2008 brings about more common sense from everyone.

I’ve said my piece

[truefan72]

Then picture this!!! and this time this is not an expample. It is just the truth.

A couple of years ago the british police shoot down a black men at the London Underground. The fact that this guy was black (or likely) and was carring a backpack lead them to think he was a terrorist, so they shoot him down 8 times before asking... Yeah eight ****ing times!!!!!

I think this is the best example of racial dsicrimination you will ever find and it happenned at you own country. Now try to explain me why the judges let those policemen free. Were they racist too??

Do not get me wrong, just because some guy mistook a black men with a terrorist and shoot him to death I won't think all british people are racist. I just think there are morons everywhere...

The main reason he was shoot wasn't he was black, it was he looked like a terrorist. But using the same reasoning Mark has used above (undermining the improtance of the "reasons"): "He was black and was shoot down therefore whoever did it was a racist, and whoever gets along with it is a racist too. Period."

I think we should consider everything in its right background!!!! because taking things out of context led to nothing but stupid discussions.

What are you talking about?
you are saddly mistaken.
The unfortunate fellow who was shot was of Brazilian decent and was not black. The police, mistakenly had his house under surveilance as opposed to the one next door. When he left they mistakenly followed him covertly, and we all know what happened at the end.

BTW you aren't going to win this argument. Your inability to understand the basic criteria of racism and misguided attempts at drawing comparisons, metaphoric or concrete are not uilluminating the discussion. Just accept an tolerate the stance that these actions are offensive to black people the world wide. If you can do that, then we could at least meet half way. You can feel and think and perceive what ever you want, but you have to at least understand that acting or voicing those opinions can bedeemed offensive and racist.

[WSRfan82]

absolutely disgraseful markabilly you clearley dont get it at all do you

ferrari fans painting themselfs red yes thats ok...but...to make yourself look black when you clearly not plus shouting abuse is a pure racist remark and should be strictly delt with

[not_incossigle]

I must say that I am writing for the first time on this forum and I looking forward to participating in the passionate and well thought out disscussions on this forum.

[wmcot]

I must say that I am writing for the first time on this forum and I looking forward to participating in the passionate and well thought out disscussions on this forum.

Welcome! A word of caution, however - some posts are more "thought out" than others. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Yeah!! others hardly make any sense.

[tintop]

Can't believe that this thread has gone on for so long, a bigot is a bigot the world around. Course, I guess I just perpetuated it myself. :)

[markabilly]

absolutely disgraseful markabilly you clearley dont get it at all do you

ferrari fans painting themselfs red yes thats ok...but...to make yourself look black when you clearly not plus shouting abuse is a pure racist remark and should be strictly delt with

Some read what they want into the posts of others. Me I was suggesting the alternative approach to treating such behavior and the simple fact that the color black is not inferior nor an insult...but anyway

I thought this was interesting quote from one of the participants:

He told the Spanish daily Publico: "We went last Sunday and we dressed up to celebrate Carnival. We wanted to give a touch of humour to Montmelo and have a laugh at the father of Hamilton.

"We didn't have the slightest intention to laugh at anyone, nor to laugh at the British driver for the colour of his skin.

"I am not a racist and it has made me ashamed to appear like that in the British press. Also, as I am in the middle of the photo, I seem like the protagonist. This has angered me."

The Spanish lorry driver added that no one working security said a word to anyone in his group when they arrived dressed as 'Hamilton's family.'

"On the contrary, the people on security at the gate started laughing and let us pass," he said.

"In fact half the people who saw us thought we were fans of Hamilton. Lots of people took pictures of us.

"If I had known that this was going to happen, I would never have dressed up, but I want to be very clear that we never intended to offend.

"We haven't done anything wrong. I would not have any problem to explain it personally to McLaren and Lewis who is a star."

From the planet article .

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...119949,00.html

My purely speculative guess is that there was an intent to offend and yet what it should be...oh well..I have already said all that..........but whatever.....

[Tazio]

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/sports.aspx?ID=BD4A703198

I'm with Max on this one. If these simpletons have already taken this act on the road
(China 2007) regardless of how ignorant, and thoughtless these individuals are,
it is a very bad reflection on this great sport,
and what its legacy will be, if it is not confronted, and dealt with!
I actually thought F1 was above this crap.
And, people with 3rd grade education’s couldn't afford the admission, let alone airline tickets,
and accommodations halfway around the world.

[wmcot]

According to Max, the same thing happened in China by some Spanish fans who had gone to the GP:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33885

I think Max is right that canceling the Spanish GP without allowing Spanish authorities to first handle the problem would be excessive. (Can't believe I'm agreeing with Max!)

[Tazio]

Dude! We posted simultaneously

[wmcot]

Dude! We posted simultaneously

Looks like you beat me by 1 minute (or less). Like they say, "Great minds think alike!"

[Valve Bounce]

Looks like you beat me by 1 minute (or less). Like they say, "Great minds think alike!"

.........because even when I was in school, the retort was "Fools seldom differ"
:p :

[SGWilko]

We wanted to give a touch of humour to Montmelo and have a laugh at the father of Hamilton.

"We didn't have the slightest intention to laugh at anyone

Isn't what that 'lorry driver' stated a little contradictory?

[Tazio]

Isn't what that 'lorry driver' stated a little contradictory?
And totally lame!

[wmcot]

.........because even when I was in school, the retort was "Fools seldom differ"
:p :

Good to know. I never knew there was a second part to the saying. My mom always used the first part alone.

OTOH, in F1, "great minds" and "fools" are not that far apart! :)

[fandango]

Isn't what that 'lorry driver' stated a little contradictory?

Yes, although it could also be a bad translation. Since this all happened I've been sounding out people here, and I haven't met a single person who thinks it's a case of racism. And among most people I know here, Alonso is NOT at all popular. Many have always considered his self confidence to be a sign of arrogance - something not at all highly valued here. So it's not because they're blind fans of FA.

I'm not saying that proves anything, just my experience. One person even said "the abuse would have been the same if Hamilton were as white as milk." It's nothing to be proud of or to defend, but I don't think it's racism. I think everyone should try to be aware of what they want to believe.

Isn't it amazing De La Rosa hasn't said, or even been asked his opinion? Maybe he's keeping his head low, or I just missed it...

[markabilly]

Isn't what that 'lorry driver' stated a little contradictory?


well, as i already said:



My purely speculative guess is that there was an intent to offend and yet what it should be...oh well..I have already said all that..........but whatever.....


:dozey:

[samuratt]

So many people here miss the point.

The racist taunting has more to do with the attitude of the people than how it affects the individual directed too.

It also denigrates and insults the entire race no matter the feelings of the target. That’s the vileness of racism. Its actions while trying to disparage an individual, are actually offending an entire race. Their actions state that the color of someone's skin is worthy of insults, that their ethnicity/race is worthy of mockery. This is where the taunting crosses the line from an individual to the entire race/ethnic group.

Many of those who can't see comprehend that or fail to see the furor in these actions are usually not the minority or the group being attacked. All too often we here these same people question what the uproar is about. Suffice to say that it is very hard to imagine yourself as that minority or other race. To have to go through life knowing/feeling and experiencing racism and discrimination subtle and overt. It really isn't for them to question what a group finds offensive. If they say it is, then respectfully accept that it is offensive to them and leave it be. There is no point in trying to argue that YOU can't see why THEY are so upset.
The media, institutions and governments do their due diligence on this matter. And thankfully, most of them institute a zero tolerance policy. As to the media it is newsworthy.
Spain of recent has had particular problems with racism. I'm not sure what the deal is. I love going to Spain, especially to Barcelona and Seville. It is a picturesque country today with wonderful food, beautiful cities and excellent football. But they seem to have an indifference towards actions perceived as racist. I'm not sure if it is truly racism, ignorance or general apathy towards the sensitivities of minorities and other races. It is by far not a Spanish problem alone, but they seem to have a serious problem in curbing those behaviors in public arenas or by public people.

Lastly it is ironic that those who can't see the issue with such taunts are the same ones easily offended by any slight to their sub-cultures e.g. Asturians, Catalans, Welsh, Scott, Irish (protestant or catholic), Sardinian, Corsican, Serb, Croat, Bosnian, etc. etc. etc. or other ethnic groups. All too often resulting in unwanted consequences. And this too goes for all races. Look at what's going on in Kenya today. We as humans always look for things to divide us. If that’s what we want to do, fine, but that doesn't give us a license to disparage others unlike us or use their traits as fodder for taunts or hate.

Let's hope that 2008 brings about more common sense from everyone.

I’ve said my piece

Are all americans (citicens of the United States) like Bush? are all Spaniards racist? I think you can come up with the answer by yourself.

Please do not make those kind of assumptions and generalizations. Are not good. And if you don't mind, i would suggest you to learn and inform yourself before posting such kind of things about other's nationalities.

Thanks in advance!

[samuratt]

What are you talking about?
you are saddly mistaken.
The unfortunate fellow who was shot was of Brazilian decent and was not black. The police, mistakenly had his house under surveilance as opposed to the one next door. When he left they mistakenly followed him covertly, and we all know what happened at the end.

BTW you aren't going to win this argument. Your inability to understand the basic criteria of racism and misguided attempts at drawing comparisons, metaphoric or concrete are not uilluminating the discussion. Just accept an tolerate the stance that these actions are offensive to black people the world wide. If you can do that, then we could at least meet half way. You can feel and think and perceive what ever you want, but you have to at least understand that acting or voicing those opinions can bedeemed offensive and racist.


I wasn't trying to win anything. I was only trying to state that sometimes missing the background of some actions can lead to wrong assumptions. That's all. I do accept tht the example wasn't the best though :)

Furthermore i consider myslef "able" to understant the basic criteria of racism. I can understand that using the word "black" is offensive to black people, but I am able to understand that these morons at Montmeló were not insulting Hamilton because he is black, they were insulting him for last years battle between him and Fernando. If you able to understand this maybe we can meet half way... or maybe not, but do not doubt I am willing to reach an aggrement ;)

[Daz100]

Absolutly disgraceful really, I know there is normally banter between Drivers and fans, which is ok, but when it gets like this, it must be stopped, clearly this is just Alonso's fans doing their best to get rid of Hamilton's confidence for the season ahead.

[Bagwan]

Well , surprise , surprise .
We have different cultural groups saying to each other "you just don't get it" .

I used to work with a dude who was a real mix of nationalities , with Austrian , Chinese , English , and Guyanese all scrunched into one . He ended up looking rather Cree(Canadian aboriginal) .
With me being rather pink in hue , due to English , Irish , Scottish ancestry , and both of us being long-hairs , we kinda stood out , working with the suits .
The most fun we ever had together was when we would hurl ethnic insults at each other , trying to shock people around us .
And , it did , many times .
Of course , we always let them know that we weren't serious about the slurs before we let them get too far away .

It always had a great moment of comical emotion as the listener went from utter shock to utter giggles as the abuse got stupider and stupider .


Did you hear the one about the (insert ethnic group here) (we generally use the "Newfie" aka Newfoundlander) who was racing the train to the crossing ?
He hit the 39th car .

Badum tsh .

[BDunnell]

One person even said "the abuse would have been the same if Hamilton were as white as milk."

No it wouldn't, because the abuse would not have involved blacking up, which, to me at least, is a racist thing to do.

[wmcot]

Anyone ever been called "Gringo" by a Latin-American? That's a lot more racist than it sounds! You can be white and suffer racist slurs!

[BDunnell]

Anyone ever been called "Gringo" by a Latin-American? That's a lot more racist than it sounds! You can be white and suffer racist slurs!

I don't think anyone's denying that.

[ArrowsFA1]

Formula One teams, drivers and circuits will be asked to throw their weight behind a new FIA global anti-racism campaign that will be launched at the Spanish Grand Prix, autosport.com can reveal.
'Racing Against Racism' is being spearheaded by motor racing's governing body to drive home the message that racism will not be tolerated at any level of the sport.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65113

[OTA]

Some things sickens me. "Racing against racism" what a joke, and they'll start it in Spain. Of course, Turkey, Baharein, China, Malasia, Brazil and every single country for that matter don't have issues of their own that need to be adressed. The FIA and Spanish authorities have acted here to protect their investment. Nothing to do with racism, just panic to mass media.

Spain is not racist, there is not a single law that defends such a thing and I feel terribly offended that my country is single out for it. Or what are they trying to say that Spain has many arse holes, because that is true not only of Spain.

And all of this because someone called LH a negro. Well guess what he is a negro, and a bloody fast one.
If the people that shouted at LH comitted a crime they should be tried for it, but the FIA has no authority, neither legal nor moral to coach my country in social behavior. We are more than capable of doing it ourselves.

Cheers
David

[Tazio]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65113

"Formula One is a global, multi-cultural sport and has never encountered such scenes before and will not tolerate them in future.

I like the Idea, as long as Honda (or any other team) doesn't try to incorpoate it into their Livery!
In the words of JT "Good Night!"

[maxu05]

I think this whole thing has been blown out of context. In Australia, we would call the people taunting Lewis a bunch of yobbo's. Don't judge all Spanish fans by a few idiots that were most likely intoxicated, and acting foolish. We had the same problem in Australia years ago from fans, and it led to them limiting sales of beer in the stands. Football and cricket are far worse for racial abuse IMO. I think it should not be so sensationalised. I think it will turn out to be an isolated incident.

[Tazio]

Some things sickens me. "Racing against racism" what a joke, and they'll start it in Spain. Of course, Turkey, Baharein, China, Malasia, Brazil and every single country for that matter don't have issues of their own that need to be adressed. The FIA and Spanish authorities have acted here to protect their investment. Nothing to do with racism, just panic to mass media.

Spain is not racist, there is not a single law that defends such a thing and I feel terribly offended that my country is single out for it. Or what are they trying to say that Spain has many arse holes, because that is true not only of Spain.

And all of this because someone called LH a negro. Well guess what he is a negro, and a bloody fast one.
If the people that shouted at LH comitted a crime they should be tried for it, but the FIA has no authority, neither legal nor moral to coach my country in social behavior. We are more than capable of doing it ourselves.

Cheers
DavidThough this sprung out of events in Spain, racism, I'm sure is far worse in elitist societies,
and certain third world countries! I really don't think you should take this as a personal affront.
I applaud F1 for this action. Especially because it doesn't translate directly into $.
It may save the sport some. But, the reality is that today’s professional sports,
and other public functions in civilized society do not accept outwardly expressed racism. End of story!

[fandango]

No it wouldn't, because the abuse would not have involved blacking up, which, to me at least, is a racist thing to do.

Well, they might have "whitened" up, as Spanish people are often a little darker than people to the north of Europe :)

So some things, for you, are racist no matter what the context. At least that's what you seem to be saying. I have a couple of mates who are both black, and happen to be from Texas. So are they racist when they address each other saying "hey, nigga"?

(My being an innocent Paddy, of course, was the only thing that saved me from a kicking when I called them "nigga", and I obviously only ever did it in jest.)