Let's Assume

[Roamy]

All teams were given identical cars
you cannot add any aero you must just use what you have


Which current drivers do you think would be capable of winning the WDC?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

1) Alonso
2) Raikkonen
3) Button
4) Hamilton
5) Webber
6) Massa
7) Kovalienen
8) Rosberg

That's it!

[pino]

1) Alonso
2) Raikkonen
3) Button
4) Hamilton
5) Webber
6) Massa
7) Kovalienen
8) Rosberg

That's it!

I would add Kubica to that list, and if Button is there... why not Jarno ? :p :

[woody2goody]

1) Raikkonen
2) Alonso
3) Hamilton
4) Heidfeld
5) Fisichella
6) Button
7) Kovalainen
8) Massa
9) Rosberg
10) Coulthard

[Brown, Jon Brow]

why not Jarno ? :p :

Jarno is too slow ;)

[woody2goody]

Jarno's cool. How very dare you! :)

[jens]

I think the folks here have taken a simplistic approach, I think the results might be surprising as with such concept of a racing series several aspect come into play.

We may have equal cars, but engineers and mechanics would be different in different teams. In lower series the drivers also "theoretically" have an equal car, but are they equal? Some (better financed) teams have better workforce and whoever wants to win the title even in lower series, needs to be in a strong team.

But even if we conjecture such utopical variant of racing, where "everything is equal except the drivers", then there are still some important aspects:

In 0,2 seconds there might be even up to 10 drivers, while in "normal F1" only the drivers in the best car are in such tiny distance of time. The drivers would be very tightly packed and one error would be costly. For example at Istanbul qualifying last year Räikkönen made a braking error, which cost approximately 0,2 seconds. In F1 conditions that didn't cost him more than one position, in so-called "equal cars" that may cost even about 10 positions and - bye-bye race win.

Also, the process of the race would look quite different, what we have been used to seeing and it might demand such values that current F1 don't demand so much and as a result new drivers might shine. Racing would provide a lot more wheel-to-wheel racing rather than trundling alone from start to finish. In equal cars also strategy becomes vital as with pitstops you may not win or lose just 1 position, but why not for example five.


I would add Kubica to that list, and if Button is there... why not Jarno ? :p :

;)
Qualifying would be vital as in equal cars passing in the race would be harder (most of the passes are the result of the fact that the package behind has at least some kind of superiority over the car in front, which enables a pass). For example if Trulli qualifies on pole position (which would be no surprise! :p : ), then I highly doubt he would drop to last position in the race - simply too many cars between him and last pos. He would create a whole new situation (for eveyone!) and with good blocking might achieve decent results even by the end of the race (if the strategy works and he doesn't lose in the pits).

So all in all consistency and error-free performance throughout the season would be vital as it's hard to see anyone really blowing away the whole field by winning consistently. If someone achieves more than 3 wins in a season, then that would be a truly remarkable achievement.

Who would win the championship then? Well, I wouldn't rule out Mr. Consistency and Flawless himself - Nick Heidfeld! :D

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Jarno's cool. How very dare you! :)

If coolness was a factor how come Schumacher one so many WDC's?

[woody2goody]

That's a fantastic post and a fantastic concept.

I know everyone says that this would be 'against the principle of F1', but a 'stock-car' format would create some fantastic racing, probably more teams, and thus more drivers given a chance at the top level.

The teams could still have their own identity, and pride themselves on different aspects of their organisation, such as the construction of the car, the engine, or their pit-work.

This idea should be considered by the fIA and everyone who has an interest in motor racing.

Imagine, week-in, week-out, a straight fight between Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, etc in almost identical machinery. Who knows, they might not even be at the front, in which case it makes it more interesting :)

[woody2goody]

Ps i agree with the Heidfeld part :)

[airshifter]

I would add Kubica to that list, and if Button is there... why not Jarno ? :p :

If those two are on the list I should be on it as well. :laugh:



I think the problem is that even if there were identical cars with identical preparation by the teams, it would still be influenced by driver style and how that particular setup suits their style. Alonso drove the old Renault with the front end to loose it looked nearly impossible to drive, yet even with that understeer he put in blazing laps.

[Osella]

Who would win the championship then? Well, I wouldn't rule out Mr. Consistency and Flawless himself - Nick Heidfeld! :D

Aah, ya beat me to it! ;)

Also, I just wonder how much certain drivers have developed/got a driving style that is very aero-dependent...

In these days where you had traction control and lots of grip from the aero keeping the car in a line was pretty important. (Come on, the fact that cross winds and turning the wheels affect the aero so much just shows how aero-critical the current cars are!)
Look at the 70's and the smooth drivers weren't always benefitted, whereas in the ground-effect era they were more.

So perhaps drivers like Button would suffer more as their driving styles work well in aero-dependant cars..
So I think the specs of this car would have a big effect on who would win. If it was low downforce then guys like Kimi and Alonso, Massa etc would be to the front, however if they had high aero grip, I would expect Trulli, Coulthard, Button to be to the front..

[woody2goody]

That's a pretty good shout.

It's interesting how Force India chose Fisichella because of his 'smooth style'. Do you think this is possibly why?

[ShiftingGears]

Raikkonen
Hamilton
Alonso
Webber
Massa
Heidfeld
Rosberg
Button
Kubica

For the top guys there'd be nothing in it. I put Alonso as #3 because as talented as he is, Hamilton seemed to get to him last year. Eg races like Canada.

[Norwegian Blue]

It would be kinda interesting if they did this for one season, and then went back to normal rules....

Maybe only giving the teams their car for the season with one or 2 days testing before race one. Then we'd see a jumbled up first few races for sure!

[waitey]

people are seriously under estimating robert kubica. and it's really annoying. i think he just doesn't get noticed because he doesn't have flashy looks and that "movie star" persona. the guy is seiorusly quick, been incredibly UNLUCKY. really i think he will beat heidfeld with some decent luck this year. nothing against heidfeld he is fantastic. but the amount of times kubica was in a good position then was let down by a mechanical failure, 4th at melbourne ahead of heidfeld, china in the lead obviously. can easily match heidfeld for speed, usually the times heidfeld would be ahead in qualifying he was lighter. heidfeld technically took out kubica twice ending his race. so i think it's really stupid to not include this guy, absolutely super quick, can pass, and race, has aggression, but oh sorry, doesn't look like a movie star with awesome looks. i think it is the same in the media, he isn't recognised because of this. people it is only his 2nd full year in f1 this year, he was basically a rookie last year.

[woody2goody]

Kubica is very good, but maybe not WDC material at the moment. However he would be the next name on my list lol.

[Ranger]

people are seriously under estimating robert kubica. and it's really annoying. i think he just doesn't get noticed because he doesn't have flashy looks and that "movie star" persona. the guy is seiorusly quick, been incredibly UNLUCKY. really i think he will beat heidfeld with some decent luck this year. nothing against heidfeld he is fantastic. but the amount of times kubica was in a good position then was let down by a mechanical failure, 4th at melbourne ahead of heidfeld, china in the lead obviously. can easily match heidfeld for speed, usually the times heidfeld would be ahead in qualifying he was lighter. heidfeld technically took out kubica twice ending his race. so i think it's really stupid to not include this guy, absolutely super quick, can pass, and race, has aggression, but oh sorry, doesn't look like a movie star with awesome looks. i think it is the same in the media, he isn't recognised because of this. people it is only his 2nd full year in f1 this year, he was basically a rookie last year.

But then again there's been a lot of times where he hasn't been quicker than Heidfeld in races, not to mention qualifying where he was only sometimes higher up the grid than Heidfeld, who is not a great qualifier himself.

[maxu05]

That's a fantastic post and a fantastic concept.

I know everyone says that this would be 'against the principle of F1', but a 'stock-car' format would create some fantastic racing, probably more teams, and thus more drivers given a chance at the top level.

The teams could still have their own identity, and pride themselves on different aspects of their organisation, such as the construction of the car, the engine, or their pit-work.

This idea should be considered by the fIA and everyone who has an interest in motor racing.

Imagine, week-in, week-out, a straight fight between Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, etc in almost identical machinery. Who knows, they might not even be at the front, in which case it makes it more interesting :)

I think they call this kind of racing A1 or something :laugh:

[wmcot]

I think they call this kind of racing A1 or something :laugh:

My thoughts, exactly! But it would be nice if all the drivers drove in the A1 series in the off season - just like they used to do in the Tasman series in the '60s.

[Osella]

That would be great, then we could get the chance to see new guys like Hulkenberg and Carroll and passed-over drivers like Enge against some of the best F1 drivers of the day :up:

[Cozzie]

1. Raikkonen (as much as it pains me to admit)
2. Hamilton (give it two more years and he will be the pick of them)
3. Alonso (fast and talented, but too much to whinge about)
4. Massa (underrated and my tip for 2008 WDC)
5. Heidfeld (mr consistency would shine here)
6. Rosberg (another guy who could prove he is as good as almost anyone)
7. Kubica (not quite as good as Heidfeld but he wouldn't have that pressure here)
8. Kovalainen (already proving he is very very quick)

That is pretty much my ranking of the drivers at the moment and I believe that in a single make season they would be top eight and perhaps with the addition of Button would be the only drivers capable of podiums at the moment. If you ask me next year perhaps I would add Bourdais to that list ;) .

As for the idea of a single make series, it is tantalizing but would never happen unless in ten years time customer cars had taken over and we were left with just Ferrari and McLaren. Formula One is about the combination of driver and machine and that is why it is the pinnacle of world motorsport. However, something like this would be an interesting series (I wouldn't combine it with A1 though) in the off season, even if just ten drivers competed. A format like this COULD work:

5 or 6 races: (Tasman style) in either countries that have not hosted GPs but may in the future (Russia, India etc) or world class circuits that there is no longer room for in F1. I would avoid it being a European series though and focus more on it being a breeding ground for the future of the sport.

10-15 drivers: You could have the F1 drivers that would take up the challenge (Kimi and Alonso are too arrogant but Lewis, Jenson and Heidfeld probably would) and combine those with up and coming drivers (GP2 champs and the like and some from ChampCar in the USA) who are desperately trying to get a contract.

Car: As with many single make series a company such as Dallara or Panoz could jump on board and I'm sure they would if they were given the oppurtunity of having an F1 champ pilot one of their cars.

Sponsorship: As the series would be no more than half a dozen races and contractual issues would make things complicated for some of the top drivers the cars could simply run sponsors of the series rather than individual sponsors (say for instance ITV telecast it, Bridgestone supply the tyres, Honda the engines, Panoz the chassis the cars could contain ITV, Bridgestone, Honda and Panoz livery perhaps with each car being a different colour).

But of course even this would be difficult getting around contracts, sponsors TV rights and Mr Bernard Ecclestone. Grand Prix racing is much more complex than it was in 1965 but we can dream...

[woody2goody]

It would be great, and there could be the possibility of some of those drivers filling remaining F1 seats. It could almost be a shootout for the remaining drives.

[markabilly]

nobody wrong and everybody right thread

[wmcot]

Sounds good. Makes sense. So no way it will ever happen in F1!!! :(

[samuratt]

Not so far ago, Coulthard said that if you really wanted to know which driver is the best you the Fia should do this:

1. 10 teams, 20 drivers, and 10 races.
2. Eahc driver rides a different team car in each race.
3. The driver with most points at the end of the seasson wins
4. The team with most points at the end of the seasson wins.

In essence is the same od a spec racing series, but with the possibility of rewarding the team that builts the best car.

Probably this would end in Ferrari being the best team everyyear, but at least we would have some very interesting races and different WDC every year.

I wouldn't have expected Coulthard to come up with something like this!! :)

[harvick#1]

what about Sato :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaepWeMXq44

[trumperZ06]

;) first & second, Kimi & Lewis... pick em. These two are well ahead of the pack.

Third place is a toss up, Alonso fighting with Masa... FA wouldn't do well competing with equal cars, and NO team orders.

Long shot... Bourdais, look at his record in Champ Car.

[airshifter]

what about Sato :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaepWeMXq44


I had that in my sig the day of the race. Alonso got seriously owned on that move. :D

[edv]

So, fousto, does your experiment include Traction Control or not?
I think that if TC is taken away from this equation and drivers had to 'drift' around corners, then some of the older drivers would seemingly prove better than the young guns...

[samuratt]

I had that in my sig the day of the race. Alonso got seriously owned on that move. :D


Really owned :)

On the other hand many other drivers should learn of the way he conceded position without touching Sato's car. Other drivers are unable to let a car pass them without touching them...

[millencolin]

Webber for sure... why you ask? cause im too one eyed to say anyone else thats why!!!

Blind Faith, gotta love it

[woody2goody]

I think we need to remember that some drivers perform better in mediocre cars, so based on that Fisichella, Button and Sato would be the top three.

[Roamy]

So, fousto, does your experiment include Traction Control or not?
I think that if TC is taken away from this equation and drivers had to 'drift' around corners, then some of the older drivers would seemingly prove better than the young guns...

No TC

my pick are
Rak
Alonso
Hamilton
Rosberg

thats it for me because I don't think a Heidfield could drive around any of these guys in equal cars - massa probably should be on my list but somehow I just figure he would figure out a way to screw up.

BTW Samuratt DC is a freaking joke !!!! He is like having a man secretary!!

[ioan]

thats it for me because I don't think a Heidfield could drive around any of these guys in equal cars

Must be because he was able to drive around JV in equal cars! :D

To many chips on your shoulder cowboy, way to many.

BTW, even Sato drove around FA, in an inferior car! :p :

[leopard]

On certain occasion Honda is not inferior. :)

[Osella]

On certain occasion Honda is not inferior. :)


You mean like the IRL? ;)

[Bagwan]

Must be because he was able to drive around JV in equal cars! :D

To many chips on your shoulder cowboy, way to many.

BTW, even Sato drove around FA, in an inferior car! :p :

Yo , chippy !
Leave the little cowpoke alone .

Ask Fernando what it's like racing against your own team .

Your chip is carved in the shape of a Spanish hairpin .

[SGWilko]

Yo , chippy !


Cabinet maker..........

........or chap behind the deep fat friers in KFC?

:p :

[Bagwan]

Cabinet maker..........

........or chap behind the deep fat friers in KFC?

:p :

Chippy -noun - Snotty slang for one who's shoulders are unseen under a pile of chips .

[leopard]

You mean like the IRL? ;)
Isn't IRL a code with which you put the link of a website?

[SGWilko]

Isn't IRL a code with which you put the link of a website?

Its Real Lunacy.....

[leopard]

Its Real Lunacy.....
I don't know her, I only knew Luna maya.

[Garry Walker]

people are seriously under estimating robert kubica. and it's really annoying. i think he just doesn't get noticed because he doesn't have flashy looks and that "movie star" persona. the guy is seiorusly quick, been incredibly UNLUCKY. really i think he will beat heidfeld with some decent luck this year. nothing against heidfeld he is fantastic. but the amount of times kubica was in a good position then was let down by a mechanical failure, 4th at melbourne ahead of heidfeld, china in the lead obviously. can easily match heidfeld for speed, usually the times heidfeld would be ahead in qualifying he was lighter. heidfeld technically took out kubica twice ending his race. so i think it's really stupid to not include this guy, absolutely super quick, can pass, and race, has aggression, but oh sorry, doesn't look like a movie star with awesome looks. i think it is the same in the media, he isn't recognised because of this. people it is only his 2nd full year in f1 this year, he was basically a rookie last year. What your post of apologies for Kubica does not mention is that Heidfeld was usually the easily faster driver.