Toro vs RB [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Ranger

17th January 2008, 08:36

Doubt it. They only beat Red Bull outright last year once and that was in changing conditions...

But then again anything will be possible if they manage to take the RBR cars out of higher positions like in Japan.

EDIT: As they'll be running the same car it'll also be as temperamental as the RB4 if it is unreliable.

ShiftingGears

17th January 2008, 08:40

Will Toro Rosso end up above Red Bull in the Championship. It looks possible at present.

Renault vs Ferrari
Vetel & Bourdais faster than Coulthard & Webber .....

Will be interesting to watch

Vettel wasn't better than Liuzzi in the dry, so I don't know how hes going to be a match for the Red Bull drivers. Bourdais will be interesting to see, but his whinging attitude won't do him any favours.

jens

17th January 2008, 10:44

I can't see it (STR above RB) happening as STR will start the year with last year's car. :( And when will they get the new car? In the second half of the year?

I hope STR will be sold (as soon as possible) to someone, who will operate independently. STR is a pure B-team and will always trail the A-team without any chance of achieving anything. Even Super Aguri has more freedom in their decisions.

millencolin

17th January 2008, 11:12

nope

when it comes to updates for the car RBR will always be one step ahead of STR. PLus i feel they have a better driver lineup

Will be interesting to see how Sebastien Bonehead goes though

Cozzie

17th January 2008, 22:01

I think they will outshine the A-Team, Coulthard is way past it (well, he was three years ago) and Webber will never amount to anything, surely everyone has realised that by now!? Bourdais will probably impress in the second half of the season and Vettel will only get better.

Do remember when Liuzzi outpaced Vettel, he had two years of experience and Vettel just two races!

markabilly

18th January 2008, 00:35

Will Toro Rosso end up above Red Bull in the Championship. It looks possible at present.

Does it really matter?

Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care?

:rolleyes:

keysersoze

18th January 2008, 00:37

STR has more hossies in da back of da car.

gloomyDAY

18th January 2008, 06:33

Unfortunately, the answer to the thread-starter's question is no. RBR (along with DC and Webber) are given priority. STR will have to wait for the RB4 towards the latter portion of the season.

I am looking for a positive season from STR and am confident that the Seb's can shine later in the season. I just hope both STR driver's can impress enough people to either make the A-team or move up the ladder to another team.

Der Seb is young and full of talent, so I'm anticipating a lot of development from this chap. Le Seb is a champion in every form of racing that he has been a part of and I'm sure he has the same ambitions for F1.

Testing may not prove anything, but at least there's a fire sparked under STR and they seem ready to fight.

wmcot

18th January 2008, 07:59

i for one would like to see STRR finish ahead of RBR on at least a few occasions (on merit, not on retirements.)

Osella

18th January 2008, 19:11

Does it really matter?

Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care?

:rolleyes:

YES! Because some of us still remember that team as MINARDI! And love to see those guys scoring points and looking at podiums, because they fully deserve it :up:

gloomyDAY

19th January 2008, 02:51

Does it really matter?

Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care?

:rolleyes: Yes! Why would disregarding any team be healthy for F1? I could be a fan for any of the top shooters, but I'd rather stick with the underdog and see how they develop. This just has to do with my preference and if it doesn't suit you, then oh well.

I just wanted to metion that my STR shirt came in from the UK last night.

Scuderia Toro Rosso!! :)

wmcot

19th January 2008, 08:42

Does it really matter?

Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care?

:rolleyes:

Sure! We all like to see the Davids wipe out the Goliaths (at least once in awhile)

woody2goody

19th January 2008, 18:03

I used to love supporting Minardi, like most F1 fans apart from those snobs who used to treat them like something they stepped in.

When they scored points in the old days it was great, and most of their guys are still with STR now.

I'm just curious as to what Bourdais has been whinging about in the past?

Osella

19th January 2008, 18:46

He just complained about Paul Tracy whenever Paul Tracy crashed into him... ;)

Funnily enough, some people didn't see it that way... So (because he's French probably :p ) Seb was 'whingeing', but Paul was 'tellin it like it is' etc...
Just depends which side of the fence you sit.

woody2goody

19th January 2008, 19:08

Didn't Paul Tracy crash into quite a few people? ;)

It's the American attitude towards 'foreign' drivers again.

It's disgusting how people like Villeneuve, JPM and Franchitti are being treated by so-called NASCAR 'purists'.

'Le Seb' as someone called him will do pretty well. After all he's won a prestigious seried 4 times in a row, he must be good. And he did some good times last week for STR.

Osella

19th January 2008, 19:29

Well, the Canadian's didn't really seem to take to Seb too well either... ;)
But then again there are a lot of people who don't like Tracy!

Montoya hasn't been treated too badly, but a lot of people, me included, want to see him fall flat on his face! Franchitti actually has been pretty well received. Winning Indy so recently means people have a lot more respect for him. He's also never been an F1 driver, so he's not a has-been trying to scrape a ride.
And the NASCAR 'purists' are pretty divided about the open-wheel influx, so don't be too quick to judge that scenario. It's like saying 'The F1 world is captivated by Lewis Hamilton' No we're not! He's just another rookie who did well in probably the best car of the year.. Must F1 'purists' can see that and not get obsessive over one driver, just as those of us who properly follow racing know just how good Bourdais is, as opposed to those who just think of failed Indycar/CART drivers in F1 and lump him in with them...

Personally I don;t think getting beaten by Vettel is a disgrace, as Vettel (ironically) has much more F1 experience. I am growing ever more uncertain about Mark Webber's relative merits.. I hope 'Minardi' beat Red Bull this season, 'cos I ama huge Minardi fan. And I wonder why Webber has never raced for Renault, when you consider the talent Flavio has nurtured and discovered.. (Schumacher, Alonso, Fisichella, Trulli)
However he was wrong about one J.Button, but I still believe Toro Rosso has the more talented driver lineup, but experience (team and drivers) will count over the course of the season.

woody2goody

19th January 2008, 19:49

Button is better than Webber and I think better deserves a top seat.

I am a Hamilton fan but not obsessed with him like the media seems to be. When I watch the ITV coverage I want to hear about Fisi and Jarno and Coulthard and Davidson as well, not just Lewis, Lewis , Lewis. I think he's fantastic and I hope he wins the championship, but there are 22 cars out there in 2008 not just the number 22.

With the NASCAR thing, i wonder if they would be so hostile to Michael Schumacher if he raced there. Surely they wouldn't just dismiss him as 'another open-wheel driver' taking the place of a young star. Possibly because him and JPM are the only F1 drivers Americans have heard of makes them less despised than someone like Villeneuve.

i hope they all do well this year and shut some people up.

I just want a fantastic season and I'm sure it wil be very close and very exciting. The new drivers are exciting and it will be interesting to see if the rookie crop is as strong this year as it was in '07. It could well be.

Osella

20th January 2008, 17:13

I just want a fantastic season and I'm sure it wil be very close and very exciting. The new drivers are exciting and it will be interesting to see if the rookie crop is as strong this year as it was in '07. It could well be. Are you talking about F1 or NASCAR? ;)
I'm looking forward to both, and maybe to F1 a bit more this year, hope Felipe gets the championship and Heidfeld gets a win!

NASCAR-wise, there's no way the rookie crop could be worse than last year!
Hopefully Tony will get the title and Franchitti gets a win, same for Blaney :up:

P.S- agree about Webber and Button..

woody2goody

20th January 2008, 23:39

I was talking about F1 but I agree with you about the NASCAR rookies lol.

I think Johnson will win the title again and I hope Brian Vickers wins one for Red Bull. I think there will be a good scrap at one of the road courses between JV and JPM. Could be fun. :)

I think Toro Rosso have a good shot at beating RBR but I think DC and Webber will do enough to beat them in the end. I said in the ;08 predictions thread that I think DC will get a couple of podiums, so I have to back him at the risk of looking stupid ;)

Osella

21st January 2008, 12:57

[quote="woody2goody"]I think Johnson will win the title again and I hope Brian Vickers wins one for Red Bull. I think there will be a good scrap at one of the road courses between JV and JPM. Could be fun. :)
QUOTE]

I'd love Vickers to get a win, but I don't think Red Bull quite have the organisation there to keep the car up top all race. Plus I'd love Blaney to finally get a win!
Not sure about Jacques on a road course, from the looks of things he may not even be at the road courses without a major sponsor which BDR are currently lacking! Wouldn't be surprised to see Franchitti up there at both road courses tho :up: And Carpentier shouldn't be forgotten as long as he can get in the race...

Bagwan

21st January 2008, 13:45

Not sure about Jacques on a road course, from the looks of things he may not even be at the road courses without a major sponsor which BDR are currently lacking!

Don't worry about Jacques , Osella .
He just turned down a 5 year deal with a Japanese sponsor , so you can bet he's feeling confident the money will be there .
He'll win 3 , always be in contention , and finish 8th on the season .

Osella

21st January 2008, 14:20

Really...?
Perhaps he should have asked Bill Davis if that was okay first...

"Villeneuve was to run for the 2008 Raybestos Rookie of the Year Award, but supposedly now, will run the first five races of the 2008 Sprint Cup season and see where the team is after those races and if they get in the top-35 in owners points and the guaranteed starting spot"

ioan

21st January 2008, 14:33

And what Nascar and JV have to do with Torro Rosso vs RedBull???

Bagwan

21st January 2008, 14:35

Really...?
Perhaps he should have asked Bill Davis if that was okay first...

You mean whether it'll be ok to finish in 8th , win 3 , or be confident about sponsors ?
Ok , I know what you mean , but I have perhaps as much confidence as JV on this one .

Bagwan

21st January 2008, 14:37

And what Nascar and JV have to do with Torro Rosso vs RedBull???

One of those 2 teams will also finish 8th on the season .

ioan

21st January 2008, 14:45

One of those 2 teams will also finish 8th on the season .

Than I hope it's RedBull, while STR finish 7th! :D

Osella

21st January 2008, 18:43

Than I hope it's RedBull, while STR finish 7th! :D

:up: ;)

seppefan

29th January 2008, 15:36

STR and RBR cars to be 'similar' - Vettel
(GMM) Sebastian Vettel has revealed that Toro Rosso will begin the 2008 season with the STR2B -- a development of the car the team used last year.
The single seater has been performing strongly in his and new teammate Sebastien Bourdais' hands in recent tests, moving Vettel to conclude that the team's policy of using the old car for the first few races of the season could prove an advantage.
"Let's wait and see if we are not doing better with proven material than many others in their brand new machines having to overcome teething problems," the German, who is 20, told F1's official website.
Vettel said a launch date for the 2008 car has not yet been set, but confirmed that the STR3 will be "similar" to the 2008-spec single seater that was recently revealed by sister team Red Bull.

As quoted on AR1.

It could be close !

dime3

29th January 2008, 15:49

I think Toro Rosso have a good shot at beating RBR but I think DC and Webber will do enough to beat them in the end. I said in the ;08 predictions thread that I think DC will get a couple of podiums, so I have to back him at the risk of looking stupid ;)
Exactly, I can't see TR beating RBR. I agree that DC and Webber are a better combo, given the chance podiums will always be an option.

ioan

29th January 2008, 16:05

Exactly, I can't see TR beating RBR. I agree that DC and Webber are a better combo, given the chance podiums will always be an option.

DC and MW are both on the downward spiral already and soon one of them, or both, will be history as the Sebs will showcase their abilities.

dime3

29th January 2008, 16:10

DC and MW are both on the downward spiral already and soon one of them, or both, will be history as the Sebs will showcase their abilities.
IMHO this will be DC's last year, but that doesn't mean that he won't be giving it 100%. Webber is as fast as anyone in quali and very good during races. He won't be giving anything away.

The Seb's maybe the future, well one of them might be if they preform, after all F1 is cut throat. But both have a lot to learn.

gloomyDAY

29th January 2008, 17:41

ShiftingGears

30th January 2008, 03:54

DC and MW are both on the downward spiral already and soon one of them, or both, will be history as the Sebs will showcase their abilities.

Vettel wasn't clearly better than Liuzzi in the dry, and poor pitstop strategy from Webber allowed Vettel to finish higher in China. I'd like to know why you think MW is on a downward spiral - I think he drove brilliantly this year. Not sure how Bourdais will go, in CCWS he wasn't Mr Flawless by any means.

gloomyDAY

30th January 2008, 05:53

Vettel wasn't clearly better than Liuzzi in the dry, and poor pitstop strategy from Webber allowed Vettel to finish higher in China. I'd like to know why you think MW is on a downward spiral - I think he drove brilliantly this year. Not sure how Bourdais will go, in CCWS he wasn't Mr Flawless by any means.Don't forget how Bourdais complained incessantly in CCWS. That's the primary reason why I think Le Seb is catered for the F1 culture. If something goes wrong, just bitch until someone will care to listen. Of course, that might be viable if he gets results or else he'll be ignored.

I just think Le Seb was poached and Der Seb is being pampered in order to be the future for Red Bull. Honestly, why else would they have ostracized Liuzzi and Speed? They were strong drivers in 2007 for the equipment each were given. Yes, Speed had a fallout with the team management. Still he was competent in the car and just as capable as Liuzzi.

woody2goody

30th January 2008, 09:27

ShiftingGears

30th January 2008, 09:49

Don't forget how Bourdais complained incessantly in CCWS.

Yep. Being a lot faster than the opposition and whinging is what I've remembered him for in CCWS.

gloomyDAY

2nd February 2008, 04:01

Vettel beat RBR and Bourdais was closely behind the RB4's.

gloomyDAY

3rd February 2008, 01:28

I know it's only testing, but we topped the charts!

That's something for the minows to get excited about.

:beer:

gloomyDAY

3rd February 2008, 20:01

Bourdais (http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2008/2/7317.html)

Q: With the backdrop of your American heritage, can you understand the safety concerns surrounding the ban on traction control (TC)?
SB: In general it never made sense to me to have TC in Formula One. We are supposed to be the best drivers on this planet. We all come from Formulae without traction control and nobody complains. And then we come into Formula One and suddenly it was the easiest car to drive because there was nothing to do with the right foot. And in fact when I tested last year it was a bit frustrating for me as I felt I was not 100 percent in control of the car. All the discussions about not driving in the wet without TC…if we have such discussions we should not be here. For myself I have discovered that in wet conditions the car drives superbly - it is super balanced. :s mokin:

jens

3rd February 2008, 20:50

gloomyDAY

14th February 2008, 21:57

Uhh. So far the impression from testing tells that RBR and STR are about even, but I guess RB as A-team has more room for progress.

But yeah - I'm definetely hoping that Vettel can at least occasionally embarrass the A-team. :p :Webber has been kicking in testing, but DC is being paced ominoulsy by Vettel. I just hope that STR really struts their stuff. Sooner of later I think STR is bound for some glory this year. *fingers crossed*

Ranger

15th February 2008, 04:59

Webber has been kicking in testing, but DC is being paced ominoulsy by Vettel. I just hope that STR really struts their stuff. Sooner of later I think STR is bound for some glory this year. *fingers crossed*

All just testing, though. Yesterday Coulthard was 2nd whilst Webber was 10th... So I suppose you'll know more about it at the last test/first race.

Though we can say that STR is much closer to that middle group than before.

gloomyDAY

15th February 2008, 06:34

All just testing, though. Yesterday Coulthard was 2nd whilst Webber was 10th... So I suppose you'll know more about it at the last test/first race.

Though we can say that STR is much closer to that middle group than before. ;) I'll take that.

Underdog baby! That's what it's all about.

gloomyDAY

16th April 2008, 15:57

I read what Vettel said and I'm sure he's confident.

All I can do is sit on my hands and wait for the first race. Really want the 'Sebs' to do well this season, but I don't want to jinx it. Since I believe the 'Sebs' are the future of Red Bull they need to perform well in order to make the A team next season.
Finally, some of my suspicions are coming to light.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66666

I wonder which team Vettel will be driving for next season.