No wonder Ford is screwed

[Daniel]

I know a good deal of Ford's problems stem from their US branch but anyhoo.

Which idiot commisioned these adverts and do they honestly think that anyone's going to go "oooh cars floating on balloons! I'll get a Mondeo!" or "Wow it's sad the birds aren't flying I'll get an S-Max" :confused:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yjH4g2lLxAY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-9rIvIRtG6I

What happened to the days when manufacturers had interesting, meaningful and memorable ads.

Ads like this!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PypfibTLNQI

When it comes to current car ads I quite like this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3611lZBe-Uw

Why do Ford insist on mobile phone company style advertising when they actually have good cars which they could probably advertise in really different and interesting ways which wouldn't make you never want to ever own a Ford again.

[MrJan]

I think a large part of the market is made up of the same people who like talking about mobile phones, hence that approach. Sadly it means that loads of other people are put off.

[Robinho]

who is seriously swayed by cars in TV adverts anyway? i would never choose a model, nor manufacturer on the basis of an advert.

i know not everyone in the world is as into cars to bother reading reviews, spotting cars on the street, test drives etc, but surely most people want a car that fulfils their requirements (probably size, safety, efficiency, look and price for the majority of the population) and will prefer some cars to others regardless of advertising campaigns - the only thing i can see they are worthwile for is to maintain a brand presecence in peoples minds, so a cool, slick, modern advert might be enought to keep people thinking about a particular manufacturer when they are choosing a car.

[quote="Daniel"]
What happened to the days when manufacturers had interesting, meaningful and memorable ads./QUOTE]

It's not an ad, but this is good....http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mDM0rmkLKWc

But I suppose you are wanting a good old-fashioned ad....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MQwj0EqOQJw&feature=related

I particularly like the "schnell" bit.

[harvick#1]

who is seriously swayed by cars in TV adverts anyway? i would never choose a model, nor manufacturer on the basis of an advert.


exactly, I normally change the channel when it comes to car ads

[Hazell B]

People who aren't bothered about cars, racing and engines watch TV adverts, which at the end of the day is the vast majority. If it's cool or suitable for a certain type of person, but rubbish (and there's a long list out there) it will sell, plain and simple.

After all, how many Rover 45's, etc. have you seen on the roads today? Without advertising, most of the 4x4 market simply would never exist, especially all those silly women in great big pick-up crewcabs who saw an advert and finance deal half way through Emmerdale :mark:

[GridGirl]

Do tv adverts really make you want to buy a particular car? Theres some adverts I've quite liked and some that were so bland they quickly fade but none of them have ever made me want to buy a particular car.

If you asked a million people for the top three reasons why they bought their car, I doubt even 10 people would say they bought it because of a tv advert.

[Cozzie]

THIS is without doubt the funniest ad I have ever seen...and it's for a modern car, apparently it got banned after its first day!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUP3dtRynk

[LeonBrooke]

I tend to notice car adverts but forget which car for. Like the one featuring the cars floating away with helium ballons tied to them as the new car drives through the streets. What was that one for...? That's right: the new Mondeo.

Or the one with the giant cars; I think that one was peugeot.

[tsarcasm]

in the states ford still sells a version of the 1st gen. focus, europe is on the 3rd generation

[MrJan]

THIS is without doubt the funniest ad I have ever seen...and it's for a modern car, apparently it got banned after its first day!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUP3dtRynk

Only in the states would the selling point of a car be that it's bigger :D

[Hazell B]

If you asked a million people for the top three reasons why they bought their car, I doubt even 10 people would say they bought it because of a tv advert.

That's why adverts work - nobody knows they've been swayed by them.

Ask yourself if anyone has ever told you that, for example, McDonalds are delicious, Levi make the best jeans, Coke is the real thing or Nescafe really does make a funny noise when you shake the beans. Of course they haven't, but just like me you've wanted to try them all out at some point in your life.

We are all heavily influenced by adverts thoughout our lives. Without them I wouldn't have seen half the films I have seen, and neither would anyone else.

Anyway, in short the ad companies keep getting employed so I guess they must be working out for the user ;)

[Daniel]

Exactly Hazell. Advertising does work. But does it work when the ad is just a timeslot with stuff happening on the screen and there being a car on the screen at the same time.

[Hazell B]

If the ad runs for more than a few days (they hope for each target person to see it three times) we will know it has worked. If it vanishes, we'll know not.

It really is that simple often as not :)

[airshifter]

A lot of you seem to ignore one simple fact. Here on a motorsport based forum I think it's safe to say that most of us know a great deal more about cars than the average public does. What wouldn't influence us much might well influence people that know little about vehicles.

I worked in the sign business for many years, and did a lot of research on various advertising in any visual form. It's much more complex than most people realize, but also as simple as finding the right approach to a target market. Keep in mind that the primary objective is to bring attention to the product in the case of higher price purchases. They know that almost everyone is smart enough not to run out and get a new car based on a single commercial, but they also know that if they imprint the idea and draw attention to that vehicle, there is a better chance the customer will look further into it.

Daniel, have you looked at the new Mondeo's in person yet?

[Malbec]

Why do Ford insist on mobile phone company style advertising when they actually have good cars which they could probably advertise in really different and interesting ways which wouldn't make you never want to ever own a Ford again.

Maybe because they've been building decent quality cars for a while and noone has noticed so their market share keeps slipping.

The cars aren't the problem, brand perception is. There isn't any point showing off the new Mondeo in an ad, you have to change how people view the 'Ford' bit. Thats why you get these ads, to make people think differently about the Ford brand. How that ad is meant to do it I don't know, but I do like it and makes me inclined to feel slightly nicer about the company. Now if everyone thought that way then maybe a few more Fords would be headed off to new homes!

[Daniel]

Maybe because they've been building decent quality cars for a while and noone has noticed so their market share keeps slipping.

The cars aren't the problem, brand perception is. There isn't any point showing off the new Mondeo in an ad, you have to change how people view the 'Ford' bit. Thats why you get these ads, to make people think differently about the Ford brand. How that ad is meant to do it I don't know, but I do like it and makes me inclined to feel slightly nicer about the company. Now if everyone thought that way then maybe a few more Fords would be headed off to new homes!
That's what I mean. They have good cars so why the dumb ads? I also dislike the stupid dogbot ads as well. But at least they do tend to advertise features about the cars. Why not tap into the fact that they have good cars in the ads? :mark:

Airshifter. I have had a look at the new Mondeo in that I've walked around one and had a quick peak through the window. It looked nice but not for me to be honest. I just don't like the grille on it. I'm just picky about styling details on cars to the point where I probably go for cars that people would say are boring :)

[ShiftingGears]

That's what I mean. They have good cars so why the dumb ads? I also dislike the stupid dogbot ads as well. But at least they do tend to advertise features about the cars. Why not tap into the fact that they have good cars in the ads? :mark:

Probably because they wouldn't be as memorable. I'm sure far more people have looked at a Mondeo thanks to that "ad with the balloons in it" rather than an ad that states the finer qualities of the car. I think the ad is quite clever.

[airshifter]

Airshifter. I have had a look at the new Mondeo in that I've walked around one and had a quick peak through the window. It looked nice but not for me to be honest. I just don't like the grille on it. I'm just picky about styling details on cars to the point where I probably go for cars that people would say are boring :)

And there is my point. You think the ads are stupid, yet you'll still look because of your interest in cars. It's the people with lesser interest in cars they have to market them to.

[Rollo]

Eight weeks before Ford launched their Mk 2 Focus for general sale, Top Gear left one on the streets of London to just judge what sort of reaction it got.
It got none. Brand new car, not yet on sale... zip, nada, nothing, not even ow.
I think that with Mondeo 4, it's been designed to use Ford's "kinetic" look, which is basically a re-hash of "new edge" because the previous cars were pig boring. The concept car for this was the Ford Iosis.

Ford's problem has nothing to do with cars outside of America. It's Ford USA which is bleeding money left, right and centre and again it's not because of cars. Like GM they had pension plans for their ex-workers and also like GM they thought they'd fund these programs by selling motor cars in the future. Now that petrol prices have skyrocketed and the sale of new cars is on average falling whilst the population is ageing, suddenly Detriot has to fund a bunch of slobbering old git's retirements.

It has nothing to do with cars at all.

As for the adverts... meh. They're ads, they'll go away in time.

[Daniel]

Probably because they wouldn't be as memorable. I'm sure far more people have looked at a Mondeo thanks to that "ad with the balloons in it" rather than an ad that states the finer qualities of the car. I think the ad is quite clever.
Ok think of it another way. If you saw the ad and never saw any Ford branding at the end then what would you think it was an ad for? Why not show 30 seconds of dogs humping each other and then a Ford logo at the end? Memorable, cheap to film and still nothing to do with the car :)

[AndyRAC]

Where are the ads promoting Ford as WRC Manufacturer Champions, very few and far between. Though saying that, Citroen aren't much better.

[Daniel]

Where are the ads promoting Ford as WRC Manufacturer Champions, very few and far between. Though saying that, Citroen aren't much better.
Nah. Far better to spend all that money winning the manufacturers title and then never tell people who don't follow the WRC :)

Clever Focus. Stupid marketing executive :)

[Azumanga Davo]

Ok think of it another way. If you saw the ad and never saw any Ford branding at the end then what would you think it was an ad for? Why not show 30 seconds of dogs humping each other and then a Ford logo at the end? Memorable, cheap to film and still nothing to do with the car :)

They wouldn't let him back in the board room after that, y'know...

[BDunnell]

People who aren't bothered about cars, racing and engines watch TV adverts, which at the end of the day is the vast majority. If it's cool or suitable for a certain type of person, but rubbish (and there's a long list out there) it will sell, plain and simple.

After all, how many Rover 45's, etc. have you seen on the roads today? Without advertising, most of the 4x4 market simply would never exist, especially all those silly women in great big pick-up crewcabs who saw an advert and finance deal half way through Emmerdale :mark:

Exactly. Advertising must work, otherwise companies wouldn't do it. Saying that 'I wouldn't buy anything on the basis of an advert' is missing the point. They clearly have some influence over people. This is not to say that there isn't an awful lot of bullsh1t involved in the process, but the end result does deliver if done properly — and if the product is good enough, of course.

[BDunnell]

Where are the ads promoting Ford as WRC Manufacturer Champions, very few and far between. Though saying that, Citroen aren't much better.

Therein lies a big question about the value of promoting cars through motorsport, which, when you think for too long about it, calls into question the whole notion of manufacturers participating at all when they don't try and get anything out of it.

[Daniel]

Exactly. Advertising must work, otherwise companies wouldn't do it. Saying that 'I wouldn't buy anything on the basis of an advert' is missing the point. They clearly have some influence over people. This is not to say that there isn't an awful lot of bullsh1t involved in the process, but the end result does deliver if done properly — and if the product is good enough, of course.
Well perhaps my statement should have been "This advertising isn't done properly"

[BDunnell]

Well perhaps my statement should have been "This advertising isn't done properly"

Might still work, though. We don't know.

[Daniel]

Might still work, though. We don't know.
It has as much chance of working as a Britney Spears yodelling album has of selling. That's not to say they're bad cars and won't sell because that's not true but I can't see how these ads help the cause of the cars they're trying to sell.

Of course ads don't necessarily need to just list specs like old style ads might have. For instance
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CLmE4lby_fI
The ad says nothing about the car until the end when it says "the new Citroen C4. Alive with technology"

Which then invites the person to investigate and see what this means rather than scratching their head wondering why cars are floating on balloons or why birds aren't flying.

[AndyRAC]

It has as much chance of working as a Britney Spears yodelling album has of selling. That's not to say they're bad cars and won't sell because that's not true but I can't see how these ads help the cause of the cars they're trying to sell.

Of course ads don't necessarily need to just list specs like old style ads might have. For instance
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CLmE4lby_fI
The ad says nothing about the car until the end when it says "the new Citroen C4. Alive with technology"

Which then invites the person to investigate and see what this means rather than scratching their head wondering why cars are floating on balloons or why birds aren't flying.

Talking of Citroen, they're just as bad as Ford - they have 4 times WRChampion, and have you seen the car they've put his name to - a poxy 1.6L 110BHP. Very clever.....

[Malbec]

Well perhaps my statement should have been "This advertising isn't done properly"

It is being done properly.

This ad isn't aimed at you Daniel, you're abnormal. You, like everyone else here, spend time looking and thinking about cars. Not only that you actually log onto a motorsport forum to talk about.... cars.

The average guy and more importantly girl (women are highly influential in 70-80% of major purchases like cars) don't do that. They go more on what the brand feels like. They only care about cars every few years when their old one breaks down and they have to get a new one. What their friends say about the car is as important (probably more so) than rave reviews in magazines. And the important decision makers (ie women) on the whole do not care about WRC.

These guys and girls are not getting the message that Fords now are better compared to the opposition than they've ever been. They don't care either. They want a brand. BMW gives them that brand. Merc does too. Even VW and Honda gives them brands they want. Thats why the 3 series is much more expensive than the Ford Mondeo yet totally destroys it in the private purchasing market.

The new Alfa ad hits the nail right on the head with the quotes "I bought it for the 4wd" "I bought it for the handling" etc etc then saying "rubbish, you buy it because its an Alfa". Yep, people buy it because of the badge on the bonnet, not the car underneath.

This ad isn't about telling you that the oily bits in the new Mondeo are better than the old one and as good as the 3-series. Its about subtly redefining what 'Ford' means to people who really don't care that much about cars. 'Ford' now means affordable, common, average, boring. The Tories almost killed Ford by claiming that they wanted to win Mondeo Man's vote, ie Mr Average. No one ever wants a car that labels you as average. The ad works on your subconscious, making you feel warmer towards the brand. It doesn't work on you but you're not the target demographic. It won't work to immediately raise sales either but over time a sustained campaign like that will slowly change peoples attitudes to Ford... hopefully.

[TangoR34]

I'm so glad that aston martin is now owned by Prodrive.

[ShiftingGears]

Ok think of it another way. If you saw the ad and never saw any Ford branding at the end then what would you think it was an ad for? Why not show 30 seconds of dogs humping each other and then a Ford logo at the end? Memorable, cheap to film and still nothing to do with the car :)

You might be onto something ;)

[Daniel]

I had a nice post written out this morning but flash kept on crashing internet explorer :)

Dylan you talked about brand problems for Ford and I agree to a certain extent. But consider another company with brand issues. Fiat. They have the same problem as Ford but worse. Good cars but a reputation for being a bit boring of late and worse than Ford people think Fiat's will break and rust to bits within 2 hours of purchase.

So what do they do with their ads? Put balloons on their cars and wait 5 years for a whole campaign to take effect or come out all guns blazing with a bold and brash advertising campaign :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvfLhEhOTyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7PB7JBfM_g

End result

Ford - Good cars but still a boring brand
Fiat - Good cars and they've turned the image problem around somewhat

Whoever thought of that Alfa ad campaign is a genius. Seriously.... who buys an Alfa for rational reasons? So why not just advertise as the slightly irrational and desirable choice that it is. If they'd tried to advertise the new Alfa's as more reliable than ever people would have laughed at them so Alfa Romeo just advertised their cars for what they were.

[Rollo]

End result Ford - Good cars but still a boring brand


So boring that 5 million Focii have now been sold? They must be doing something right if they're shifting 400,000+ units a year.

Who cares if they're boring? Not with a sales clout like that.

[bowler]

I'm so glad that aston martin is now owned by Prodrive.

It isn't. It is owned by a consortium of investors, and David Richards is the independent Chairman.

[Daniel]

So boring that 5 million Focii have now been sold? They must be doing something right if they're shifting 400,000+ units a year.

Who cares if they're boring? Not with a sales clout like that.
Well Ford supposedly does :mark:

[FrankenSchwinn]

here is a nice commercial: http://youtube.com/watch?v=GuyaVcqTgic

[Malbec]

Dylan you talked about brand problems for Ford and I agree to a certain extent. But consider another company with brand issues. Fiat. They have the same problem as Ford but worse. Good cars but a reputation for being a bit boring of late and worse than Ford people think Fiat's will break and rust to bits within 2 hours of purchase.

Ford - Good cars but still a boring brand
Fiat - Good cars and they've turned the image problem around somewhat


Fiat is interesting but actually they're still worse off than Ford which regularly gets the Focus and Fiesta in Europe's best selling top 10. The Punto and Panda are quite successful now but before they weren't that hot.

I agree with your summary of Ford but I reckon Fiat's image is a bit like that of Italy itself, unreliable and poorly built but fun and cheeky. If they sort out the reliability bit then they've got a very strong image to trade on. Certainly Ford have nothing that can generate goodwill in the same way as the '500' brand can.

I find brands fascinating especially as cars are getting more and more similar. Also with cheap Korean and eventually Indo/Chinese imports with no brand image entering the market at the bottom brands will become ever more important for European American and Japanese makers to distinguish themselves and lever a premium. Some of the desperation among brands like Ford is interesting to watch but at least they're doing something about it, Vauxhall is doing nothing.

[Rollo]

I agree with your summary of Ford but I reckon Fiat's image is a bit like that of Italy itself, unreliable and poorly built but fun and cheeky. If they sort out the reliability bit then they've got a very strong image to trade on. Certainly Ford have nothing that can generate goodwill in the same way as the '500' brand can.

Interesting diversion here:

The 2009 Ford Ka will be the same car as the 2008 Fiat 500 except with different styling front and rear.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=21975

There is a link that I saw in Italian but I can't read that :(

[odykas]

"Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by , I lift my hat."

Henry Ford