kind of the same team ? Ducati and Ferrari

[CNR]

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/news/158599-0/raikkonen_compliments_stoner.html



"For sure I enjoy watching MotoGP because there are a lot of things happening and the racing is usually very exciting, plus being in kind of the same team, I watch most of the races," said Kimi.

[Ranger]

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/news/158599-0/raikkonen_compliments_stoner.html

Well put it this way... Both teams are Italian, both are traditionally red, both have the same title sponsor, both teams are currently both drivers/riders and constructors champions, and both the Domenicali brothers are involved in high positions in each respective team.

The only major difference is the number of wheels their machines operate with.

So yes, they are kind of the same team.

[F1boat]

And they both won 2007 championships! :)

[markabilly]

Rumor had it that the initial engine development had a lot of assitance form ferrari, but even more importantly, the rumor is electronic traction control of Ducati, which some consider to be the best on the grid, was of Ferrari origin and assistance.

How good is it over the others is hard to say, but at Seca this year the wildcard riders for Suzuki and Kawasaki were stunned at how good it was on those teams, as in head towards the apex and then just twist the throttle wide open. And Suzuki and Kawa were not running at the top


Rossi's has blamed TC or the lack thereof on his Yamaha the reason he lost.

Casey Stoner went from being a second tier rider who would do the highside too often, due to over-use of the throttle(too much bravery and too little control), to a dominanting rider on his first year at Ducati. Watching him at Seca, he was early on the throttle, and just held it open. Incredible.

And traction control (referred to as 'electronics" in motogp) is far more complicated and tougher to implement, because on has to measure g-forces, rider lean angle, wheel spin and so forth, and the latest systems may be programmed for individual corners on the race track, such that on turn one, the program is optimized for it, then turn 2, the program is optimized for it, and so on...

[Osella]

...the latest systems may be programmed for individual corners on the race track, such that on turn one, the program is optimized for it, then turn 2, the program is optimized for it, and so on...

Which is what they had in F1 for a number of years, gearbox settings and ASM settings were at this level in F1 in 1993, and the traction control setups were certainly of this type in F1 during the 2-way telemetry days as the car would know exactly where it was on track and be able to compensate for just about anything.

But back to the point, certainly the Ferrari and Ducati teams have many connections; the Schumcher test rides for Ducati and the fact that this year (and last I believe) they had their traditional pre-season ski break together, at the same time as Ducati launched their new bike too!

[AndyRAC]

Funny, because I have thought the same; virtually the same sponsors, etc. The difference is that Ducati don't have the same influence on the FIM that Ferrari have on the F1A. In MotoGP Honda have the influence.

[pino]

And they both won 2007 championships! :)

...and they both will win the 2008 championship :p :

[Ranger]

Rossi's has blamed TC or the lack thereof on his Yamaha the reason he lost.

I swear he was blaming the tyres... hence why he's changed from Michelin to Bridgestone this year. Not to mention the bike kicked the bucket or he crashed more than once on inopportune moments, so to single it down to one factor is just silly.

[Malbec]

I swear he was blaming the tyres... hence why he's changed from Michelin to Bridgestone this year. Not to mention the bike kicked the bucket or he crashed more than once on inopportune moments, so to single it down to one factor is just silly.

He blamed pretty much everyone I think, from Yamaha's inability to keep developing Honda-style to their electronics to Michelin's failure to keep up with Bridgestone (despite giving him championship winning tyres for the last few years, such gratitude!).

I think he did himself a disservice, if he leaves Yamaha Honda won't have him back and Ducati is even smaller and less well resourced than where he is now. He's also made things difficult for Yamaha by splitting their works team tyrewise. He really shot himself in the foot.

[Ranger]

He really shot himself in the foot.
Yep, but that's his problem.

What really gets me about all that is how Rossi's ramblings about Ducati's better equipment is somehow reported as true by media (and forum members here), and therefore Stoner's title is somewhat dismissed because "he had the best equipment" (despite the other Duc's not being anywhere most of the time)

But then again, if you beat the best ever, then that HAS to be the reason, right?? :\

[Malbec]

What really gets me about all that is how Rossi's ramblings about Ducati's better equipment is somehow reported as true by media (and forum members here), and therefore Stoner's title is somewhat dismissed because "he had the best equipment" (despite the other Duc's not being anywhere most of the time)


I don't think its just Rossi.

I find the general accusation rather irritating that Stoner/Ducati only won because of better tyres etc etc. The fact is that the Stoner/Ducati/Bridgestone package was superior. Stoner creamed his teammate and Ducati didn't let other Bridgestone teams come close while no Michelin team could outpace them either. It seemed to me that too many people simply couldn't take the fact that a relative newcomer (and previously erratic rider) on an underdog machine running on non-Michelins could win and had to find something to blame.

[F1boat]

...and they both will win the 2008 championship :p :

I hope so. I think that both Kimi and Casey are very likable and super-fast.

[ShiftingGears]

Casey Stoner went from being a second tier rider who would do the highside too often, due to over-use of the throttle(too much bravery and too little control), to a dominanting rider on his first year at Ducati. Watching him at Seca, he was early on the throttle, and just held it open. Incredible.


IMO put Casey in a bike without TC and he's still going to be class. He was fast and inconsistent as a rookie, all he needed was to improve consistency and polish his riding and thats exactly what he did. I'm still amazed he didn't bin it once during the races!


I hope so. I think that both Kimi and Casey are very likable and super-fast.
Agreed.

[Osella]

Well, I'm supporting Felipe and Marco! ;)

[markabilly]

IMO put Casey in a bike without TC and he's still going to be class. He was fast and inconsistent as a rookie, all he needed was to improve consistency and polish his riding and thats exactly what he did. I'm still amazed he didn't bin it once during the races!.

In all the series in which he competed, he was always very very fast and brave, but he over cooked himself on throttle control until Ducati. I remember the very first time noticing him in a 250 race, he was very close to the top, came out of a corner with the throttle on too early and too hard, was losing it, so he did exactly what riders do, shut it off, which often leads to the painful high side---only this time the bike pitiched him off in front, breaking the windshield and running over part of his body with the front wheel. Then the name struck me (Stoner is a great name!!) and he was not Italaian Spanish or Japanese and his body size (he looked like he was 12 when they helped him up)

So he ends up on Ducati, where as the american wild card riders discovered, TC has become king, and his one truly weak spot, throttle or traction control with the wrist was replaced by electronics so good that it was impossible to high side or lose it because of throttle issues.

Another example of electornic throttle control this year was demonstrated in practice at Seca, where two riders (I can not remeber who without looikng it up--old age) collided in to the entrance at turn three, one lost it and clearly shut off the throttle, but the bike engine continued on as though stuck. He actually had an ankle injury when the rear wheel (still spinning) ran over his right foot, and the bike was accelerating in the dirt of the run-off before it finally went down.

Meanwhile, you watch pre-TC, and you see where Rossi was just faster, faster going in and much faster coming out over all the riders, making it look easy and being easy on the tires through a race.

When he jumped Honda for Yamer, everyone said that he would not be winning the rider championship that year, and he took it to a whole new level with Yamaha. Pure rider

So put Stoner on the same bike with no TC with Rossi, and Rossi will win over Stoner, and Stoner would be back to crashing---indeed, "Cap" would be beating him not so much on speed, but by not crashing.

With TC, Stoner can do what he does best, be brave, slam on the throtttle, and just go!!!

Stoner also has a big weight advantage, as he still looks as if he is about 12 to 14 years old.......

As to Rossi fussing, just another example of a champion temperament, unable to accept second place :D

[Rollo]

Kind of not even ow.

Ferrari SpA is a self-contained special entity with the FIAT Group. Whilst it is owned by FIAT, FIAT doesn't internally tinker with it, neither does it extract profits or consolidate Ferrari's books back into the group.

Ducati and Ferrari are likely to be customers if anything, but not stablemates.