Alonso hints at get-out clause WHY ?

[CNR]

http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/7639014


Fernando Alonso has hinted there is a get-out clause in his Renault deal which would allow him to quit the team at the end of the 2008 season.

[Mark]

Doesn't surprise me at all. These things are fairly standard. Often they are something like that if the team fails to score x number of points in a certain number of races then the driver is free to leave.

[Roamy]

as a 2 x wdc that is a smart deal for Alonso. Plus maybe Flavio has retirement or movement on his mind as well

[WSRfan82]

i bet thats just in case asslonso starts off like he did at mclaren and if renault get sick of his winging they can kick him off the team hehehe :D

[Mark]

That's why the Renault deal took so long, all along it was said that Flav wanted him to sign for 2 years or more but Alonso wanted to be free for 2009 if Renault turned out to suck as much as they did in 2007.

[ArrowsFA1]

There were reports a while back that Alonso's wish for a 1yr contract was preventing any deal. Red Bull may have been one team willing to consider that, but it seems he has reached a compromise with Renault.

Does this mean that a move to Ferrari is still on the cards for 2009 :confused:

[Mark]

Does this mean that a move to Ferrari is still on the cards for 2009 :confused:

Yes, he has already signed for 2009... in his dreams :p

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: This is a tuff "read" without seeing the contract.

Alsonso may have insisted on a one year commitment due to Renault's poor performance in 2007.

On the other hand... Renault may have insisted on the one year contract... giving Renault an "OUT"...

because of Alonso's character flaws.

As good a driver as Alonso is... his attitude disrupts a team.

As good a driver as Alonso is... his attitude disrupts a team.

Yes, it disrupts 'a' team.....Mclaren.

Alonso & Renault is a completely different scenario. Different as in 'successful'.

[trumperZ06]

Yes, it disrupts 'a' team.....Mclaren.

Alonso & Renault is a completely different scenario. Different as in 'successful'.

:p : Many people at Renault were GLAD to see Alsono go... in 2006 !!!

He left Renault.... with much... BITTERNESS and RESENTMENT...
at the end of the 2006 season.

;) I'm sure the same emotions that Renault felt in 2006 regarding Alonso... were in the McLaren team, last year.

[Big Ben]

:p : Many people at Renault were GLAD to see Alsono go... in 2006 !!!

He left Renault.... with much... BITTERNESS and RESENTMENT...
at the end of the 2006 season.

;) I'm sure the same emotions that Renault felt in 2006 regarding Alonso... were in the McLaren team, last year.

Yeah right... :laugh: funny boy

[Sleeper]

From what Autosport were saying at the time, he has a two year contract with get out clauses after 1 year incase it goes the same way as his McLaren time or a better ride (i.e. Ferrari) comes along.

[SGWilko]

Alonso & Renault is a completely different scenario. Different as in 'successful'.

If that is the case, why the need for a get out clause. Personally I think Onslo is on a par with the Scots that enter the highland games - tossers. ;)

[Malbec]

:p : Many people at Renault were GLAD to see Alsono go... in 2006 !!!

He left Renault.... with much... BITTERNESS and RESENTMENT...
at the end of the 2006 season.

;) I'm sure the same emotions that Renault felt in 2006 regarding Alonso... were in the McLaren team, last year.

Actually I think Tamburello has a good point.

Renault and McLaren are two teams with totally different cultures.

Alonso's antics were tolerated at Renault as long as he drove the nuts off the car every other weekend which he did. They weren't at McLaren which requires its drivers to tow the party line a lot more closely. There's a good interview with Flavio somewhere where he talks about balancing the personal needs of a fast driver's ego with the need to cut him down to size when he gets too big for his boots.

If there was so much bitterness and resentment at Renault regarding Alonso may I suggest that they wouldn't have him back? Everything I've read about the team indicates that they're glad to have him back though they remember his negatives as well as positives.

That said we did see a preview of Alonso's inability to handle pressure with his comments in 2006 re: not getting full Renault support which was clearly total BS.

[markabilly]

Actually I think Tamburello has a good point.

Renault and McLaren are two teams with totally different cultures.

Alonso's antics were tolerated at Renault as long as he drove the nuts off the car every other weekend which he did. They weren't at McLaren which requires its drivers to tow the party line a lot more closely. There's a good interview with Flavio somewhere where he talks about balancing the personal needs of a fast driver's ego with the need to cut him down to size when he gets too big for his boots.

If there was so much bitterness and resentment at Renault regarding Alonso may I suggest that they wouldn't have him back? Everything I've read about the team indicates that they're glad to have him back though they remember his negatives as well as positives.

That said we did see a preview of Alonso's inability to handle pressure with his comments in 2006 re: not getting full Renault support which was clearly total BS.
No FA was not the golden boy @ mac, and he never did to golden boy, anything close to what golden boy did to him...geeaasss, NOW do you see why I keep repeating myself, Wilko..got to love the brit view of the world....Loui is throwing fits and it is all Freddie's fault....I guess we should blame Louie being the champion choker of all time on Freddie......

[Valve Bounce]

Yes, he has already signed for 2009... in his dreams :p

Has Dr Phil confirmed that yet? :p :

[Malbec]

No FA was not the golden boy @ mac, and he never did to golden boy, anything close to what golden boy did to him...geeaasss, NOW do you see why I keep repeating myself, Wilko..got to love the brit view of the world....Loui is throwing fits and it is all Freddie's fault....I guess we should blame Louie being the champion choker of all time on Freddie......

Did you actually read what I wrote?

How Alonso's teammates reacted to him is irrelevant. His reaction to times when he was beaten by his teammates is.

By all accounts when Alonso was beaten by Fisi he went berserk. You did not want to be in the Renault garage at Indy 2006 when Fisi simply outpaced him all weekend. It didn't matter whether Fisi was subservient or Renault preferred Alonso to win.

The same happened at McLaren when Hamilton beat him more often than Fisi beat him at Renault.

McLaren didn't tolerate tantrums whether it be from Alonso or Hamilton. Renault did within certain boundaries.

Oh and whilst I'm sure Hamilton had his fits, can you actually come up with anything substantive that suggests that he threatened to blackmail McLaren like Alonso did?

[leopard]

I think FA and Renault were already in discourse late of last season about possibility they work together next season, that's why he turned down the more beautiful money from Toyota whereas he has no contract in hand.

Both Renault and Alonso already knew each other, and therefore no need to make contract in a rush.

I think the long negotiation to make the deal was coupled with which partner they would work with next season. FA would always prefer Fisi to others, but Jr seems to be a string attached if they want more investment from partners like Telmex.

[wmcot]

I would suspect that after the 2007 season it will be common to have "get out" clauses for both parties involved in the contract!

[gloomyDAY]

I'm glad Alonso is on the grid and ready to roll. If things don't workout then he can just throw a hissy fit, leave, and choose another team for 2009.

To be honest, I would just relish the sight of Lewis giving this Iberian punk a world class beat down on the track. I'm hoping Renault is competitive so it can be a fair fight against McLaren.

Anyone else feel that way?

[leopard]

I see it from the way other than expectation to cash down bitterness he had during he drove McLaren, but how good he will develop a car from the 4th in the championship.

This is really a big job, the policy of the use of MES for the series will be another task from which McLaren will have some benefit for the Renault to fight against.

If both parties satisfied with the result, it could probably the single season contract to be extended. Who would want to hire Alonso other than Renault? Ferrari has said that Kimi is stronger than FA, unless if he can prove a miracle this year to make their eyes open.

[SGWilko]

NOW do you see why I keep repeating myself,

I've decided it must be age related..... ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I've decided it must be age related..... ;)

.............like when Big Al kicks in. :(

[Garry Walker]

Why would Ferrari want Alonso?
If piquet beats Alonso this year, crybaby`s reputation will sink even further.

[markabilly]

Oh and whilst I'm sure Hamilton had his fits, can you actually come up with anything substantive that suggests that he threatened to blackmail McLaren like Alonso did?
No you are right LH did not threaten to my knowledge like FA did,

let examine it: In the privacy of an internal meeting, the morning after being docked five places (which was enough to cost FA a wdc), FA made his "threat", (assuming it was such a threat) to RD who in turned panicked, apparently knowing full well what was going on with all the testing, and it was RD who ran off at the mouth to Max.

Instead LH ran his mouth direct to the fia or through daddy to the FIA, at Monaco which resulted in a formal investigation by the FIA and at Hungary, he started the big stuff by refusing to obey the arrangment insisted upon by Mac per prior races to give each their shot at the last lap on lightest tanks Q.

And what did FA do to ever cost his team mate five grid positions or cost LH anything at anytime? NOTHING
What did FA ever actually do to carry out his private "threat" to cost Mac the penalty of wcc and 100 million? Nothing
What did LH do to cost Mac the penalty of wcc points and 100 million? everything

So you are right!!! LH never merely "threatened" to report anything. He actually did it in person or through daddy.

Happy now? :D

[markabilly]

.............like when Big Al kicks in. :(
you mean Jack Daniel with a touch of kool aid :D
makes me think it is not age related

[SGWilko]

RD who in turned panicked, apparently knowing full well what was going on with all the testing, and it was RD who ran off at the mouth to Max. Is that a known fact, or just an assumption that Ron knew everything?


Instead LH ran his mouth direct to the fia or through daddy to the FIA, at Monaco Again, is that fact or fiction that can be backed up?

[markabilly]

Is that a known fact, or just an assumption that Ron knew everything?

Again, is that fact or fiction that can be backed up?
Well RD sure panicked like a coack roach when the light is turned on

but the FIA investigation sparked by LH's mouth that was announced, demonstrates that fact beyond contestation :D

[SGWilko]

Well RD sure panicked like a coack roach when the light is turned on

but the FIA investigation sparked by LH's mouth that was announced, demonstrates that fact beyond contestation :D

Or, it could just be that, having been informed of the fact by FA, Ron did the decent thing.

Until someone can actually prove otherwise, I am prepared to give RD the benefit on his personal knowledge and involvment.....

[samuratt]

Did you actually read what I wrote?

Oh and whilst I'm sure Hamilton had his fits, can you actually come up with anything substantive that suggests that he threatened to blackmail McLaren like Alonso did?

Do you hace any proof that FA threatened to blackmail McLaren????
Oh yes, an statement from Ron Dennis. And do you think everything you read??? even more do you believe in all that Ron Dennis says??? cause if i have learned something this year is that this guy is big liar, nothing more and nothing less. So i would not believe anything this guy has said over the seasson. Period.

Back to the thread what Fernando has done is just common sense. He found himself in a very bad situation this year after the Brazil GP. To continue with the team but letting hamilton take the n1, or to leave by signing a press release stating that he had an equal chance to fight for the championship so after all it had been a good seasson. As far as the spanish media can go with their "so called" news, the latter option included a clause that says he can not bash McLaren in the media telling the truth of what have happened.

Fernando's dream is to drive for Ferrari one day. If that will happen or not only the future will tell, but he is at least taking the steps needed to fullfill his dream. First he prevented Lewis from wining the WDC (overtaking him on a clealy inferior car at Brazil), and second he has a contract with Renault that allows him to go to another team in 2009 or 2010.

All in all Ferrari were very happy with Fernando after the Brazilian GP :)

[SGWilko]

Well RD sure panicked like a coack roach when the light is turned on

but the FIA investigation sparked by LH's mouth that was announced, demonstrates that fact beyond contestation :D

Why do I feel like Paxman interviewing Howard?

Answer the question, facts with cast iron proof or hearsay?

[trumperZ06]

Did you actually read what I wrote?

How Alonso's teammates reacted to him is irrelevant. His reaction to times when he was beaten by his teammates is.

By all accounts when Alonso was beaten by Fisi he went berserk. You did not want to be in the Renault garage at Indy 2006 when Fisi simply outpaced him all weekend. It didn't matter whether Fisi was subservient or Renault preferred Alonso to win.

The same happened at McLaren when Hamilton beat him more often than Fisi beat him at Renault.

McLaren didn't tolerate tantrums whether it be from Alonso or Hamilton. Renault did within certain boundaries.

Oh and whilst I'm sure Hamilton had his fits, can you actually come up with anything substantive that suggests that he threatened to blackmail McLaren like Alonso did?


Or, it could just be that, having been informed of the fact by FA, Ron did the decent thing.

Until someone can actually prove otherwise, I am prepared to give RD the benefit on his personal knowledge and involvment.....

:dozey: Hhmmmm... I think Ron went to the FIA....

simply to eliminate any possible threat of being...

Black Mailed by Alonso !!!

That said... Alonso's actions...both with Renault at the end of 2006 & with McLaren in 2007 are simply unconscionable.

Renault's fall from grace this past year has left them desperate to regain their competitiveness... even to accepting a...

" Judas " ... as their number 1 driver.

The one year contract by Renault... may be intended to be used as a club...

attempting to exercise some control over a "loose cannon" who will be constantly in front of the press.

:s mokin: Trumper :s mokin:

[Malbec]

Do you hace any proof that FA threatened to blackmail McLaren????
Oh yes, an statement from Ron Dennis. And do you think everything you read??? even more do you believe in all that Ron Dennis says??? cause if i have learned something this year is that this guy is big liar, nothing more and nothing less. So i would not believe anything this guy has said over the seasson. Period.

All in all Ferrari were very happy with Fernando after the Brazilian GP :)

Alonso's manager for a start. Also both Bernie and Max have accepted Ron's account of that meeting at Hungary. Odd that people accept Max's verdict when convenient but not at others.

Ferrari may be happy with Alonso but they won't have him. 2007 with Alonso clearly looking for a way out from McLaren and Massa only on a one season contract would have been the ideal opportunity for Ferrari to sign him if they were interested. They responded to Alonso looking for another seat by extending Massa's contract.


Markabilly, try and return from fantasyland with arguments that can be based on evidence, not on a Hollywood script. Either way your argument is irrelevant regarding Alonso's return to Renault unless you're also trying to argue that Hamilton is following him there for 2008.

[markabilly]

Is that a known fact, or just an assumption that Ron knew everything?

Again, is that fact or fiction that can be backed up?
Fact that RD panicked is based on his own words; fact that FA was mad at being decked five grid places late the night before that meeting the next morning because of an incident that started when Hamster arrogantly refused to follow team instructions to give the advantage to FA the same as LH had recived the advanatage in prior races, based again on RD own testimony

AND GIVEN that HAMSTER's (his own teamate) complaints and behavior just cost his team mate FA the pole and pushed him back five grid places, with him inheriting pole, who would not be steamed completely through and through--if it had been me (or Senna or a number of other drivers), I would have ripped Hamster into little bitty pieces


Fact that Hamster was making various quotes to the news about how he deliberately chose to disobey...

Fact about Hamster's complaints about Monaco



Or, it could just be that, having been informed of the fact by FA, Ron did the decent thing.

Until someone can actually prove otherwise, I am prepared to give RD the benefit on his personal knowledge and involvment.....


Why do I feel like Paxman interviewing Howard?

Answer the question, facts with cast iron proof or hearsay?


Read and research it yourself, plenty of links have already been provided....including ron's own words.....




Markabilly, try and return from fantasyland with arguments that can be based on evidence, not on a Hollywood script. Either way your argument is irrelevant regarding Alonso's return to Renault unless you're also trying to argue that Hamilton is following him there for 2008.

No I am just so tired of mac and hamster apologists dumping on freddie with some sort of superior, snotty brit attitude about Freddie, blaming him for Mac's problems and slamming him for being a blackmailing rat when for WHAT we actually know, Hamster was the only rat whose squealing started two investigations, one of which cost his team mate a WDC, and his team the fine of 100 million and wcc points

Bottom line:
When it comes to choking in 2007, Hamster wins.
When it comes to ratting out a team mate, Hamster wins.
When it comes to ratting out his team, Hamster wins.
When it comes to costing a team mate and his team of having a WDC winner on his team, Hamster wins

But it is only fitting because are not hamsters related to rats? :confused: :confused:

And I am still waiting for any evidence that Freddie did anything that cost the Hamster one single point by complaining about him to the FIA. But oh me, oh NO, Freddie is unhappy unless he is winning, freddie is unhappy unless he is ahead of his team mate--but who wants a driver who is happy running second?

This whole thread was started and is all about dumping once again on freddie...without squat to back it up

[Valve Bounce]

you mean Jack Daniel with a touch of kool aid :D
makes me think it is not age related

I forget :(

[janneppi]

And I am still waiting for any evidence that Freddie did anything that cost the Hamster one single point by complaining about him to the FIA. But oh me, oh NO, Freddie is unhappy unless he is winning, freddie is unhappy unless he is ahead of his team mate--but who wants a driver who is happy running second?

This whole thread was started and is all about dumping once again on freddie...without squat to back it up
It's not really just about about Hamilton is it?
Here's what some snotty Brit apparently said last year:
http://www.duemotori.com/news//18593_Fernando_Alonso_has_chink_in_armour_-_Pat_Symonds.php

"He only had one very, very small chink in his armour when he drove for us," Symonds explained, "and that was the inability to accept being beaten."

"Actually that's a really good quality, but it was the one time he was perhaps slightly irrational -- when Giancarlo (Fisichella) beat him, for example."
"I think that what we've seen this year, with Lewis unexpectedly giving him such a hard time, it's opened up that chink a little bit,"
Pat Symonds is just another Hamilton apologist, right? :p :
The original interview is the Sunday 30 September 2007 a podcast on Renault f1 web site.

[RaikkonenRules]

http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/7639014

Sigh does he still think he's getting in at Ferrari next year? :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Sigh does he still think he's getting in at Ferrari next year? :p :


Hope not!! we don't want a whole shyteload of conflicting issues at Ferrari next year.

[samuratt]

Alonso's manager for a start. Also both Bernie and Max have accepted Ron's account of that meeting at Hungary. Odd that people accept Max's verdict when convenient but not at others.

Ferrari may be happy with Alonso but they won't have him. 2007 with Alonso clearly looking for a way out from McLaren and Massa only on a one season contract would have been the ideal opportunity for Ferrari to sign him if they were interested. They responded to Alonso looking for another seat by extending Massa's contract.


Markabilly, try and return from fantasyland with arguments that can be based on evidence, not on a Hollywood script. Either way your argument is irrelevant regarding Alonso's return to Renault unless you're also trying to argue that Hamilton is following him there for 2008.

Can you provide me with the statament made by Alonso's manager???? I do not remember it, maybe because it did not exist. On the other hand i remember Mad Max talking about the issue, and how Ron Dennis again lied to him by saying he had nothing to be worried about, and later packnicing about the prospect of being blackmailed. Yet again no proof that Alonso blackmailed the team, you only have Ron Dennis statement, and Max statement about what Ron Dennis have told him.

Please provide us (preferably me) with some solid proof that the blackmailing took place, and do not refer us to Ron Dennis words againn please, because if something has been proven this year is that he is a liar (even Max said so).

About Massa's contract being extended i think that the only reason why this happened was because Massa's manager is Todt's son, and by extending Massa's contract Todt made sure his son would have enough money to survive now that is father si not running the f1 team anymore. Furthermore, given the fact that Ferrari needed Massa to pull over to ensure Kimi was WDC, they had to give him something back in exchange. It is just a thought but as a therory it may be as valid as yours. I won't be surprised if Massa is dumped after 2008 to make room for another driver. Fernando perhaps? who knows...

[markabilly]

I forget :(
first sign of drinking that kool aid stuff too much.....just look at poor Wilko

[markabilly]

It's not really just about about Hamilton is it?
Here's what some snotty Brit apparently said last year:
http://www.duemotori.com/news//18593_Fernando_Alonso_has_chink_in_armour_-_Pat_Symonds.php

Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
"He only had one very, very small chink in his armour when he drove for us," Symonds explained, "and that was the inability to accept being beaten."

"Actually that's a really good quality, but it was the one time he was perhaps slightly irrational -- when Giancarlo (Fisichella) beat him, for example."
"I think that what we've seen this year, with Lewis unexpectedly giving him such a hard time, it's opened up that chink a little bit,"
Pat Symonds is just another Hamilton apologist, right? :p :
.


So the willingness to accpet being beaten is a good quality?
For a driver who is determined to be and has been a wdc?

Nope is like me when he says

"He only had one very, very small chink in his armour when he drove for us," Symonds explained, "and that was the inability to accept being beaten."

"Actually that's a really good quality,......,"

Actually I agreed and would hardly call that dumping, unless one prefers lap dogs for their drivers such as RB, DC and so forth who are more content and happy to always be number two, so they do NOT have"one very, very small chink in his armour , that was the inability to accept being beaten."

So what?

like I said:




And I am still waiting for any evidence that Freddie did anything that cost the Hamster one single point by complaining about him to the FIA. But oh me, oh NO, Freddie is unhappy unless he is winning, freddie is unhappy unless he is ahead of his team mate--but who wants a driver who is happy running second?

This whole thread was started and is all about dumping once again on freddie...without squat to back it up
For me, I do not care for either of them, and I do not blame LH for wanting to race him, it is just the manner in which LH and Ron D tried to do it, with the utmost hypocrisy (gee he will not play computer games with me in the hotel......) and the action of whining to the FIA about his own team mate, while everyone slams Freddie as though Freddie was the one whining to the FIA and costing Hamster points

As I said, give me evidence that FA went somewhere other than RD to start the ball rolling on the 100 million fine.....you can not. It started with his team mate taking away pole and five grid positions by publicly protesting the Mac decision as to who would have the last lap advantage with his behavior, to which freddie reacted, that day and the next morning with the utmost anger of a WDC--(and NOT as a lapdog happy to be second) and RD ratted out or blew the whistle on himself......

Give him back that pole, and even with a very unhappy second place finish for Freddie in that race, Freddie is the 2007 WDC--not Kimi (and as a fan of Kimi, I am grateful for hamilton's contribution to the WDC at Hunagary as well his doing the choke dance :D :D )

and never forget, LH finished second only based on tie breaker scoring due to more victories......such as the one given to him by the FIA at Hungary.

[janneppi]

So the willingness to accept being beaten is a good quality?

Yes, if the alternative is irrational behaviour, as Symond put it. ;)
IMO Alonso has the habit of talking too much, wheter it's his comments in 2006 about Renault not doing enough to help him or last year's comments about McLaren favoring Hamilton. How much weight was there in his comments is for anyone to make up their minds, but the effect on his engineers and the team in general is hardly helping his position inside the team.

[seppefan]

Yes, it disrupts 'a' team.....Mclaren.

Alonso & Renault is a completely different scenario. Different as in 'successful'.

piquet will p@ss Alonso off at some stage this year and we will see the diva back.

Bourdais summed it up

"When he started acting the diva, more and more line-ups became occupied and some doors for him were even locked," Bourdais said.
"Me, I did wonder about where he would end up."

[SGWilko]

About Massa's contract being extended i think that the only reason why this happened was because Massa's manager is Todt's son, and by extending Massa's contract Todt made sure his son would have enough money to survive now that is father si not running the f1 team anymore.

That sounds to me like a conflict of interest. Personally, I think they re-signed Massa because not only is he a proven race winner, but he is prepared to play the team game.

Todt's manouvering for his Son's sake is the conflict of interest, and even I do not think that low of Todt to accuse him of such underhand tactics......

[SGWilko]

first sign of drinking that kool aid stuff too much.....just look at poor Wilko

Don't you worry about me, you look out for No. 1. :dozey:

[jens]

I think we still can't rule out the possibility that Alonso will join Ferrari in 2009. Arguably Massa's 2010 contract depended on Jean Todt staying as a team principal, but by now Domenicali has taken over that role...

[SGWilko]

Thinking out loud here....

Is the title of this thread meant to be read as:-

Why a get out clause?

or

Why would Alonso openly hint at such a clause existing?

or

Both?

The need for such a clause perhaps undermines your potential faith in the teams abilities. Publicly airing such a clause is surely a slap in the face to his new (returning) team, isn't it?

[SGWilko]

I think we still can't rule out the possibility that Alonso will join Ferrari in 2009. Arguably Massa's 2010 contract depended on Jean Todt staying as a team principal, but by now Domenicali has taken over that role...

I think ultimately that will be a decision for LD-M, and influenced by the long term commitments of one KR.

If LH continues to impress and learn and improve as he did in his rookie year (choking aside for the repeaters on here), Ferrari may well have a vested interest in dangling a big fat juicy carrot in front of LH.

[Big Ben]

Thinking out loud here....

Is the title of this thread meant to be read as:-

Why a get out clause?

or

Why would Alonso openly hint at such a clause existing?

or

Both?

The need for such a clause perhaps undermines your potential faith in the teams abilities. Publicly airing such a clause is surely a slap in the face to his new (returning) team, isn't it?

could it be because everybody makes so much noise about this???

I for one hope he never goes to Ferrari and I doubt he can go in Massa's place. I don't think it's Ferrari's policy to have two drivers capable of winning the wdc.

[Malbec]

Can you provide me with the statament made by Alonso's manager???? I do not remember it, maybe because it did not exist. On the other hand i remember Mad Max talking about the issue, and how Ron Dennis again lied to him by saying he had nothing to be worried about, and later packnicing about the prospect of being blackmailed. Yet again no proof that Alonso blackmailed the team, you only have Ron Dennis statement, and Max statement about what Ron Dennis have told him.

Please provide us (preferably me) with some solid proof that the blackmailing took place, and do not refer us to Ron Dennis words againn please, because if something has been proven this year is that he is a liar (even Max said so).

About Massa's contract being extended i think that the only reason why this happened was because Massa's manager is Todt's son, and by extending Massa's contract Todt made sure his son would have enough money to survive now that is father si not running the f1 team anymore. Furthermore, given the fact that Ferrari needed Massa to pull over to ensure Kimi was WDC, they had to give him something back in exchange. It is just a thought but as a therory it may be as valid as yours. I won't be surprised if Massa is dumped after 2008 to make room for another driver. Fernando perhaps? who knows...

Re: Alonso's comments to Dennis you can look for yourself. Ultimately what is important is that motorsports people believe that account as indicated by the Bourdais quote later. He didn't do himself any favours with his conduct at McLaren regardless of what Hamilton did.

Re: Massa, possibly but I doubt it.

Whilst Ferrari might be a nepotistic team they aren't stupid. This is a team that when looking for Schumacher's successor signed someone who was contracted up to the eyeballs with McLaren in Kimi. If they had really wanted Alonso they'd have signed him when they had a free seat and he wanted to quit McLaren, ie 2007, not leave him free to sign a contract with another team. Chances like that don't happen often.

I also believe that from mid-2007 onwards Todt was sidelined from main F1 operations, certainly at a management level. Just as McLaren's 2008 launch was interesting because of Bernie's presence, the 2008 Ferrari launch was interesting because of Todt's absence. The guy who steered Ferrari for more than a decade was nowhere to be seen. Neither is he to be found in a senior management position at Ferrari proper where he was supposed to be 'promoted' to. I don't know what his current role is but he isn't the power he once was and neither do I believe he would have had the power to sign Massa again if LdM had wanted Alonso.

Another thing is that Ferrari have been utterly utterly consistent about Alonso in that they have stated that he does not have the right temperament for Ferrari (even from when he was at Renault) whilst singing Kimi's praises. As has been mentioned elsewhere it is not Ferrari policy to have two top drivers in competition but to have one who is willing to hold a secondary position like Massa. Alonso does not fit into this picture at all.

Alonso at Ferrari is never going to happen unless something untoward was to happen to Kimi.

[CNR]

[quote="


Neither is he to be found in a senior management position at Ferrari proper where he was supposed to be 'promoted' to. I don't know what his current role is but he isn't the power he once was and neither do I believe he would have had the power to sign Massa again if LdM had wanted Alonso.

[/quote"]
Ferrari CEO Jean Todt

http://www.fosagold.org/F1SA/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4988&Itemid=2

[tintop]

Why would Ferrari want Alonso?


Gee, I don't know, maybe because he's been the highest scoring driver over the past 3 years?? Beating MS/Ferrari/FIA collectively. Kind of makes sense, no?

[markabilly]

Don't you worry about me, you look out for No. 1. :dozey:
KR seems to be looking out for himself pretty good lately....i think he quit the kool aid more than a year ago when he left mac.....try it sometime, but you need to be off it for a good six months. :o

[markabilly]

Re: .

As has been mentioned elsewhere it is not Ferrari policy to have two top drivers in competition but to have one who is willing to hold a secondary position like Massa. Alonso does not fit into this picture at all.

.
well you finally got one thing absolutely right... :D ..there are drivers and there are champions...

[samuratt]

That sounds to me like a conflict of interest. Personally, I think they re-signed Massa because not only is he a proven race winner, but he is prepared to play the team game.

Todt's manouvering for his Son's sake is the conflict of interest, and even I do not think that low of Todt to accuse him of such underhand tactics......

So you do think that Massa's signing back in 2005 was only because of his outstanding drives in a Sauber???? do you really think that Jean todt and his son had nothing to do with it??? if yes, then you are quite naive.

Abobut the resignment, as i previously posted could be the result of Massa giving up a win at his home track to make Rainkonen champion, but i am sure that Jean todt and his son had somehitng to do again. In fact both should have carried the disccusion to make the arraegment. Did they doi it in Todt's ship (if he has one)???? XD

[samuratt]

Re: Alonso's comments to Dennis you can look for yourself. Ultimately what is important is that motorsports people believe that account as indicated by the Bourdais quote later. He didn't do himself any favours with his conduct at McLaren regardless of what Hamilton did.

Re: Massa, possibly but I doubt it.

Whilst Ferrari might be a nepotistic team they aren't stupid. This is a team that when looking for Schumacher's successor signed someone who was contracted up to the eyeballs with McLaren in Kimi. If they had really wanted Alonso they'd have signed him when they had a free seat and he wanted to quit McLaren, ie 2007, not leave him free to sign a contract with another team. Chances like that don't happen often.

I also believe that from mid-2007 onwards Todt was sidelined from main F1 operations, certainly at a management level. Just as McLaren's 2008 launch was interesting because of Bernie's presence, the 2008 Ferrari launch was interesting because of Todt's absence. The guy who steered Ferrari for more than a decade was nowhere to be seen. Neither is he to be found in a senior management position at Ferrari proper where he was supposed to be 'promoted' to. I don't know what his current role is but he isn't the power he once was and neither do I believe he would have had the power to sign Massa again if LdM had wanted Alonso.

Another thing is that Ferrari have been utterly utterly consistent about Alonso in that they have stated that he does not have the right temperament for Ferrari (even from when he was at Renault) whilst singing Kimi's praises. As has been mentioned elsewhere it is not Ferrari policy to have two top drivers in competition but to have one who is willing to hold a secondary position like Massa. Alonso does not fit into this picture at all.

Alonso at Ferrari is never going to happen unless something untoward was to happen to Kimi.

So finally you admit there is no proof of Fernando blackmailing McLaren??? for me that is enough.

I do admit that Fernando did not do himself any favor by whining.

About Massa, i already said what I think. The truth we will never know, so having different opinion is not that bad :)

About Ferrari signing Fernando. Well you can be right, or you can be wrong! who knows??? As far as I know, but do not ask me for a proof, Todt did wanted to sign Fernando back in 2002 as a test driver, but Flavio came into the picture and offered a test role for one year and a race drive for the next. Fernando chose Renault and to Todt's pride (which is huge) that was a blown he had never recovered from. But i do agree with you that as long as Kimi is at Ferrari Fernando won't drive a red car.

[SGWilko]

So you do think that Massa's signing back in 2005 was only because of his outstanding drives in a Sauber???? do you really think that Jean todt and his son had nothing to do with it??? if yes, then you are quite naive.

Abobut the resignment, as i previously posted could be the result of Massa giving up a win at his home track to make Rainkonen champion, but i am sure that Jean todt and his son had somehitng to do again. In fact both should have carried the disccusion to make the arraegment. Did they doi it in Todt's ship (if he has one)???? XD

No, I think they wanted a return on their investment in him. Not everything in F1 has to be sinister you know. ;)

[SGWilko]

As has been mentioned elsewhere it is not Ferrari policy to have two top drivers in competition but to have one who is willing to hold a secondary position like Massa. Alonso does not fit into this picture at all.


well you finally got one thing absolutely right... :D ..there are drivers and there are champions...

"We have our drivers who start (the new season) on an equal basis," he said. "They are going to play it out with their own chances of victory, and there are no changes from this point of view. They are both on an equal basis."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64580

[markabilly]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64580
Sub-titled: ferrari boss drinking RD kool aid.......so maybe Kimi's cup runneth over...or is it half full or half empty....???

Just when I thought it was safe to quit....

[SGWilko]

Just when I thought it was safe to quit....
Sorry everyone. :laugh:

[Malbec]

Ferrari CEO Jean Todt

http://www.fosagold.org/F1SA/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4988&Itemid=2

Interesting article.

So LdM who is Ferrari born-and-bred as opposed to Todt who is hired-by-Ferrari wants to come home from Rome back to Maranello and take over the reins.

Is LdM going to head the F1 team? Is he going to take over the roadcar business, or is he going to do more in his current official role as head of Ferrari SPA? Either way there is less space for Todt to do as he likes, and he certainly doesn't have the influence he had at the F1 team as he used to since he isn't even there anymore.

[SGWilko]

Interesting article.

So LdM who is Ferrari born-and-bred as opposed to Todt who is hired-by-Ferrari wants to come home from Rome back to Maranello and take over the reins.

Is LdM going to head the F1 team? Is he going to take over the roadcar business, or is he going to do more in his current official role as head of Ferrari SPA? Either way there is less space for Todt to do as he likes, and he certainly doesn't have the influence he had at the F1 team as he used to since he isn't even there anymore.

It was LD-M who hired JT in the first place......

[Jag_Warrior]

Why would Ferrari want Alonso?
If piquet beats Alonso this year, crybaby`s reputation will sink even further.

I'm sure that Flava Flavio will remove Piquet's wheel nuts during stops before he'll let that happen.

But with his new personal sponsor, Kleenex, at least Alonso will be well financed.

[Malbec]

It was LD-M who hired JT in the first place......

Exactly, Todt is going to find himself expendable very soon I think...

[samuratt]

Exactly, Todt is going to find himself expendable very soon I think...

Jean Todt is the CEO for the sports car division, and dopes not have anything to do the racing team anymore. I would consider that a promotion rather than the opossite... though we don't know what Todt thinks about this.

cheers

[Spoonbender]

But with his new personal sponsor, Kleenex, at least Alonso will be well financed.

:) :) :) :) :) he he, very good, is it true ??????????

[Big Ben]

Why would Ferrari want Alonso?
If piquet beats Alonso this year, crybaby`s reputation will sink even further.

if the Macaca - Hamilton alliance didn't beat him how is piquet going to do that in a team that does know who can and who cannot win a championship?

I know it was hard for you to accept the fact that this guy beat you idol but come on... it's time to get over it.

[samuratt]

Michael Schumacher claimed recently in an interview that Jean Todt, in spite fo being promoted to CEO, was still controlling somehow the F1 team and giving all his support to Stefano Domenicalli. So maybe Jean isn't nearly gone.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33658

[markabilly]

Michael Schumacher claimed recently in an interview that Jean Todt, in spite fo being promoted to CEO, was still controlling somehow the F1 team and giving all his support to Stefano Domenicalli. So maybe Jean isn't nearly gone.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33658
called saving face in some circles

[ioan]

Michael Schumacher claimed recently in an interview that Jean Todt, in spite fo being promoted to CEO, was still controlling somehow the F1 team and giving all his support to Stefano Domenicalli. So maybe Jean isn't nearly gone.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33658

Jean is getting old and tired and surely is planing for his retirement.
Running the whole Ferrari business and the F1 team wasn't easy and maybe he felt it was too much, so it was time to promote someone younger to the top of the F1 team a few years before he retires.

However, given how much the McLaren fans hate him for dominating the sport and for showing the world what kind of people RD and his team are, some are now trying to make it look like if he was thrown out of the F1 team.
But hey it's McL&C fans we are talking about! :p :

[Big Ben]

Jean is getting old and tired and surely is planing for his retirement.
Running the whole Ferrari business and the F1 team wasn't easy and maybe he felt it was too much, so it was time to promote someone younger to the top of the F1 team a few years before he retires.

However, given how much the McLaren fans hate him for dominating the sport and for showing the world what kind of people RD and his team are, some are now trying to make it look like if he was thrown out of the F1 team.
But hey it's McL&C fans we are talking about! :p :

Don't you get tired of constantly attacking people who don't share your obsession for MS and Ferrari? I'm sure JT is not better than RD. I for one have more doubts about JT´s character.

[ioan]

Don't you get tired of constantly attacking people who don't share your obsession for MS and Ferrari?

No but I might get tired of you continuously attacking me when I didn't address you the slightest word.


I'm sure JT is not better than RD. I for one have more doubts about JT´s character.

I always knew you have a soft spot for cheaters and liars, nothing new really.