Best Test (or Unknown) Race Tracks in the world?

[FIA]

Best Test (or Unknown) Race Tracks in the world?

I can think of one, Ascari Race Resort in Spain (it was on Top Gear) has a combination of great corners.

Do you know any?

[Mark]

There are lots of fantastic tracks that are greats for their own reasons but would be completely unsuitable for F1. Knockhill is a good example IMO.

[Valve Bounce]

Mt Panorama has got to be the greatest track around that has not been used for F1.

[markabilly]

There is only one: the corkscrew, especially before they screwed it up a couple of years ago and made it less demanding, but still tough enough.

Nothing else like it on a major race track.

And more than suitable for formula one, except for one small problem, and I mean if Tony(the "FIA promoter of the year award") George aint got enough, then Seca aint got a tenth of it, and that is$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$.
Oh did I mention $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Certainly not a problem for these most elite of the ELITE who operate beyond the consideration of anything so carnal and low class, such as concern for money.......or so one might think

[ShiftingGears]

Phillip Island. Very fast and flowing, so it almost certainly is ruled out of contending for an F1 race.

[Valve Bounce]

Phillip Island. Very fast and flowing, so it almost certainly is ruled out of contending for an F1 race.

Obviously, if Philip Island becomes a venue for F1, a lot of upgrades will be necessary to meet FIA standards for an F1 track. But I think the biggest problem is the access to Philip Island which will become a nightmare if the numbers expected for an F1 race are to get there.

[trumperZ06]

;) We don't have the Nurburgring over here for evaulating Sports Cars...

but we do have VIR (Virginia International Raceway).

Many of the domestic manufacturers are using both VIR and Road Atlanta for testing pre-production high performance cars.

A couple of our Mag Rags are now featuring VIR... when running comparision tests, one brand vs. another.

[philipbain]

Cadwell Park (Lincolnshire, England) is possibly one of the finest circuits in the world, it has often been referred to as a mini nordschliffe, but it's so small that its unsuitable for even most national level car racing, though its a favorite for club racing and motorcycle racing.

[trumperZ06]

:D VIR... the full course or Grand course is over three miles around with good changes in elevation including a very tricky "up-hill esses".

Road Atlanta is ~ 2.54 miles long and includes the famous turn twelve, a downhill sweeping high speed right turn corner/somewhat off camber.

ALMS runs the 10 hour Petit LeMans @ Road Atlanta.

Both these tracks are more suitable for Sports Cars... they do not have the safety systems in place for open wheel.

[F1boat]

I like Laguna Seca!

[millencolin]

There is only one: the corkscrew, especially before they screwed it up a couple of years ago and made it less demanding, but still tough enough.

Nothing else like it on a major race track.

And more than suitable for formula one, except for one small problem, and I mean if Tony(the "FIA promoter of the year award") George aint got enough, then Seca aint got a tenth of it, and that is$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$.
Oh did I mention $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Certainly not a problem for these most elite of the ELITE who operate beyond the consideration of anything so carnal and low class, such as concern for money.......or so one might think

The track has a name... LAGUNA SECA

and its not suitable for F1. the facilities are not up to scratch. The pit garages, the grandstands, not up to f1 standards. PLus its not a good track for overtaking

[Jonesi]

The track has a name... LAGUNA SECA

and its not suitable for F1. the facilities are not up to scratch. The pit garages, the grandstands, not up to f1 standards. PLus its not a good track for overtaking

The pit garages are up to F1 standards per track architect who I know. If the track had the money to bring in F1, upgrading grandstands/suites would be easy. I don't think "good track for overtaking" has ever been an F1 prerequisite. and Bernie probably still wants them to upgrade Cal 68 to a freeway, which doesn't look like will ever happen.

[trumperZ06]

The pit garages are up to F1 standards per track architect who I know. If the track had the money to bring in F1, upgrading grandstands/suites would be easy. I don't think "good track for overtaking" has ever been an F1 prerequisite. and Bernie probably still wants them to upgrade Cal 68 to a freeway, which doesn't look like will ever happen.

;) I've heard a major issue is getting a track "Certified" by Formula 1.

Miller Sports Park ( A new track in Utah) was designed to meet most of the F-1's track requirements but...

NO ONE wants to spend (bribe) the "Millions of $$$ Dollars" demanded by F-1 for certification.

[Easy Drifter]

Don't forget both Mosport and St. Jovite were F1 tracks. Both would need massive upgrades to the infrastructure although Mosport has had huge improvements since Dr. Panoz took over.
The Ont. Govt. has announced that highway 407 (multi lane) will be extended to #35 near to the track. Mind you this was planned in 1960 when the track was being built!

[markabilly]

The track has a name... LAGUNA SECA

and its not suitable for F1. the facilities are not up to scratch. The pit garages, the grandstands, not up to f1 standards. PLus its not a good track for overtaking

"Not a good track for overtaking?" What do you mean, it does have pits THAT f1 cars can use for passing just like at all the other tracks.... :D


I was talking track as in tough and challenging to drive regardless of whether the subsidary protions of the track are "up to scratch" Funny how in the world of F1, the purest and highest ideal of motosports, the most important factors seem to be things like garages, pits and comforts for sponsors rather than the actual track; and most importantly $$$$$$$$$$$ for benire pockets.

Having both driven and riden the track on four wheel and two wheel racers, there is nothing like the blind approach to the corkscrew and the drop, that justs causes the tommy to pop up in the throat, and those last two deceasing downhill radius corners to teach respect to those who jump the throttle too soooon.

many do not like it--most notably Rossi, who says that any track where you can not walk the racing line without the real danger of falling down, such as in the corkscrew due to elevation slope, is too dangerous and scary.

And having experienced it--and knowing that Rossi is NOT a whiner like DC, it tells me that a track that can make even a fine brave rider like Rossi worrried about what is on the track is a challenge worthy of the best only

(I would add that concerns about what dangers is off track or crazy high speed corners is quite another concern of a different nature---but no where is there a set of corners that seems to invoke such a challenge to the gut as well as a challenge to the skill of the driver, even though in terms of speed it presents a relatively small amount of danger as compared to the last big speedway corner at Indy before the long main straight (that corner requiring mostly a willingness to keep the throttle open and hope a tire does not pop, causing the massive crashes of recent history)and other such places)

As to overtaking, for a while i thought about the only good track corner for passing in F1 was corner one at indy and now even that seems to have changed before it became a dinosaur extinctus due to lack of bread to feed pockets of benrie.

(but i still think the improvements to the corkscrew, did NOT improve it at all, for neither spectators or driver challenges but i suppose making something easier makes some happpyy--but oh well..)

[ShiftingGears]

"Not a good track for overtaking?" What do you mean, it does have pits THAT f1 cars can use for passing just like at all the other tracks.... :D


I was talking track as in tough and challenging to drive regardless of whether the subsidary protions of the track are "up to scratch" Funny how in the world of F1, the purest and highest ideal of motosports, the most important factors seem to be things like garages, pits and comforts for sponsors rather than the actual track; and most importantly $$$$$$$$$$$ for benire pockets.

Having both driven and riden the track on four wheel and two wheel racers, there is nothing like the blind approach to the corkscrew and the drop, that justs causes the tommy to pop up in the throat, and those last two deceasing downhill radius corners to teach respect to those who jump the throttle too soooon.

many do not like it--most notably Rossi, who says that any track where you can not walk the racing line without the real danger of falling down, such as in the corkscrew due to elevation slope, is too dangerous and scary.

And having experienced it--and knowing that Rossi is NOT a whiner like DC, it tells me that a track that can make even a fine brave rider like Rossi worrried about what is on the track is a challenge worthy of the best only

(I would add that concerns about what dangers is off track or crazy high speed corners is quite another concern of a different nature---but no where is there a set of corners that seems to invoke such a challenge to the gut as well as a challenge to the skill of the driver, even though in terms of speed it presents a relatively small amount of danger as compared to the last big speedway corner at Indy before the long main straight (that corner requiring mostly a willingness to keep the throttle open and hope a tire does not pop, causing the massive crashes of recent history)and other such places)

As to overtaking, for a while i thought about the only good track corner for passing in F1 was corner one at indy and now even that seems to have changed before it became a dinosaur extinctus due to lack of bread to feed pockets of benrie.

(but i still think the improvements to the corkscrew, did NOT improve it at all, for neither spectators or driver challenges but i suppose making something easier makes some happpyy--but oh well..)

My problem with Laguna Seca, is that if the corkscrew is easier...theres nothing that really makes it unique from other circuits. I'd much rather see a USGP at Road America or Watkins Glen. Although Road America looks too good to be ruined by the safety requirements.

[markabilly]

My problem with Laguna Seca, is that if the corkscrew is easier...theres nothing that really makes it unique from other circuits. I'd much rather see a USGP at Road America or Watkins Glen. Although Road America looks too good to be ruined by the safety requirements.
true enough--not having driven or riden after the "improvements", I can only speak from the spectator point of view: the bridge is now right where I used to sit for the best photos and view with the specatator fence being moved back and changed (UGH UGH AND DOUBLE DARN IT). The last turn or twist has been made friendlier ---less off camber and less decreasing radius and so forth....... and so forth :mad:

[call_me_andrew]

And more than suitable for formula one, except for one small problem, and I mean if Tony(the "FIA promoter of the year award") George aint got enough, then Seca aint got a tenth of it, and that is$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$.
Oh did I mention $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's my understanding that Bernie's been taking sanctioning fees in the neighborhood of $20 million, and at that price Tony George would have to sell 150,000 seats at $133.34 per ticket to break even. And I'm sure that at least 1/4 of that $20 million can be traced to spite.

I think Watkins Glen could host a race if a new pit lane/garage area was built.

Daytona's motorcycle course would certainly be worthy as a test track. I suppose it's possible that the new garage area could be retrofit to serve as an F1 pit road if there's enough interest in a race. I'm sure ISC could come up with some money, but I'm not sure they would want to.

[ShiftingGears]

I don't think "good track for overtaking" has ever been an F1 prerequisite.
No way...Tilkes circuits are purely about long straights and hairpins for that very reason!

[markabilly]

No way...Tilkes circuits are purely about long straights and hairpins for that very reason!
and for a while, that appeared to be semi-effective, per turn one at indy, but the last two or three years years--for whatever reason, that 'effectiveness" seems to be gone at indy and elsewhere.

The first three years at Indy, turn one was the place to watch, but no more (and I mean setting aside the fact that the track is no more on the calendar)

Fact of the matter is that the governments have to assist to meet the financial demands of bernei, or you got to sell him the track, per Turkey (see my old posts about that little piece of self-dealing!!!!)

Fact is at those prices, someone trying to make living with their track on spectator sales can not do it. Indeed, I doubt that Waktins Glen could accomodate 150K of people, and I know at the first motogp in Seca where 45k to 60k were showing up on race day, the traffic was impossible at the first motogp (we spent 5.5 hours inching our way to the track for the last five miles from Monterey, we could have walked far faster--As it got closer to morning practice, the team got a cell call from Rossi who was stuck in traffic. He hopped a bike but with no helmet, was stopped by police, but he still made it to the track, but only on a mtorbike doing white lining and off roading in the ditich. Indeed, it was so overwhelming, that they stopped checking people for entry tickets, we were even asked and saw no one asking....BTW--there were estimates that they were upwards of 60k people, but it think official sales tickets for the race itself were only like 48k for the sunday race)

But quick--can anyone name the races that had more true official attendance than Indy last year???

[philipbain]

I think I can partially explain the problems F1 has had with overtaking over the past couple of seasons compared to before when it was never easy at most tracks but at least possible. It can be linked to aerodynamic philosophies changing when the engines were cut from 3 litre V10s to 2.4 V8s, the cut in power made designers concentrate more of aero efficiency tham ultimate downforce, meaning the current cars work the air passing over them significantly less than they did previously, which in turn diminishes the slip stream, this coupled with less overall power and the inabilitiy to call in an over-rev system to give an extra edge on power means that overtaking has become all the more difficult.