BIG NEWS: Read Subaru, not Mitsubishi....

[General Prim]

It seems that Toni Gardemeister and Al Qassimi will run Subaru Impreza WRC and not Mitsubishi Lancer during 2007 after someone in Japan is angry....

[cut the b.s.]

where did you hear this?

[Tomi]

bad news if true

[JAM]

So, the lot of things that everybody should already know and don't know could have an explanation...

[General Prim]

I have just received a call...

[Lousada]

It seems that Toni Gardemeister and Al Qassimi will run Subaru Impreza WRC and not Mitsubishi Lancer during 2007 after someone in Japan is angry....

Elaborate and give a source, and if you can't, don't start new threads.

[General Prim]

people from Finland must know more...Mitsubishi are looking for drivers that were fired up before petrodollars $$$ arrived...

[General Prim]

Just wait and see... Obrigado

[General Prim]

For LOUSADA: If I am right you pay dinner at Portimao, if not I will give you a present with same value...

[Tom206wrc]

I would have prefered Toni back in a whale ;(

[Simmi]

Anyone know what type of Impreza's we are talking and run by who?

[Tomi]

people from Finland must know more...Mitsubishi are looking for drivers that were fired up before petrodollars $$$ arrived...

nothing here in the news yet, maybe later today

[GigiGalliNo1]

mmmmmmm.......strange. I even remember Gigi talkin to SWRT not so long ago!

[Priorat]

It seems that Toni Gardemeister and Al Qassimi will run Subaru Impreza WRC and not Mitsubishi Lancer during 2007 after someone in Japan is angry....

Do you mean that Al Qassimi pays Toni's drive wherever they go?

[swordsman]

Priorat: Yes his main sponsor does pay everything...

[alleskids]

people from Finland must know more...Mitsubishi are looking for drivers that were fired up before petrodollars $$$ arrived...


Xevier Pons had a buget for Mitsubishi, but was shown the door after the oil dollars come in sight. So maybe angry man in Japan must call angry man in Spain :) .

[Priorat]

people from Finland must know more...Mitsubishi are looking for drivers that were fired up before petrodollars $$$ arrived...

Well, if Mitsubishi gives a ten rallys program to those fired drivers (Rovanperä, Galli...) and Gardemeister keeps his program altough in a Subaru, then I see it as good news.

[swordsman]

Mitsu doesn't have the money to hire any drivers. But maybe if they bring the money themselves there are an opening now...

[[WRCRR]]

The Subarus might be run by Atölye Kazaz...

[GigiGalliNo1]

There's a sponsor back in the game.....

[N.O.T]

The greek site http://www.rally.gr confirms that mitsubishi will not take part in the WRC this year as an M2....it doesn't say what cars Toni and qassimi will use instead though.

[GigiGalliNo1]

greaatttt :| :(

[jonas_mcrae]

sh1t im tired of this I wanted to see the mitsu again, but anyway more WRCs is better than nothing

[JAM]

For LOUSADA: If I am right you pay dinner at Portimao, if not I will give you a present with same value...

Lousada is in Portugal but this Lousada from the forum is not portuguese... it would be an expensive dinner to him :D

[Simmi]

Can someone actually explain why the team has changed cars?

[miksu]

well, i will go to check news from the same channel that told about this garde's mitsu deal in the first place... maybe there's something.

[FrankenSchwinn]

The greek site http://www.rally.gr confirms that mitsubishi will not take part in the WRC this year as an M2....it doesn't say what cars Toni and qassimi will use instead though.

I KNEW IT!!!! i knew mitsu was not going to come back, i just knew it!

[Tom206wrc]

We cannot trust Mitsubishi anymore regarding WRC... :mark:

They are too comitted to Dakar and Rally-Raid...

[ProRally]

They need to decide soon as Monte is just round the corner...

[Tomi]

I dont understand Mitsu at all, they did have full budget, free publicity, and the rug is pulled from under the feet.
Also im not so sure Subaru is the best choise, Toni is lightyears faster than Atkinson atleast on tarmac, in worst case he has to take a pee twice on every stage to keep Atkinson ahead.

[A.F.F.]

Mitsubishi, a manufacturer with great tradition in rallying is heading to be just another Nissan :mark:

Which, btw, ****ed up Gardemeister also in the past :down:

[White Sauron]

Official now(((

http://www.crash.net/news_View~t~Official--No-Mitsubishi-WRC-cars-to-run-in-2007-~cid~4~id~141772.htm

[DonJippo]

I dont understand Mitsu at all, they did have full budget, free publicity, and the rug is pulled from under the feet.

Internal politics at Mitsu I believe, men with big egos and little *****... :rolleyes:

[Tomi]

Internal politics at Mitsu I believe, men with big egos and little *****... :rolleyes:

lol, yes has to be something like that.

[White Sauron]

Internal politics at Mitsu I believe, men with big egos and little *****... :rolleyes:

It's all about Freud?))

[Xeroid]

Oh for fecks sake ...!!
Another boring season, all the Subies parked on the side broken down, Loeb leading the single file to the end and the whales wallowing along behind.
Think I'll go watch the paint dry on the window frames, no hang on, those two flies look quite interesting ...

Ho hummm ....yawn ...

[Viktory]

Mitsubishi have really dissapointed me again!! I just hope Gardemeister and Al Quassim (sp?) find a car for Monte and especially Sweden now!

[FrankenSchwinn]

ok, you cannot blame rally raid or nissan for any of this. the vehicle manufacturer Mitsubishi is not profitable and will not be for quite some time. aff, pino and jippo, you two were looking at buying a new(er) car recently, why didn't you buy a mitsu? (assuming that pino ended up buying that crossover toyota or susuki) because they are crap. they put a gamble on the new coupe/eclipse thing and guess what? it's not selling like they wanted it to! they also spent a good deal of money on redesigning that front grill on every model. when they do rally raid they win. when they do wrc, they dont. when they do motorsport they dont sell any more cars. simple. although, i have to say that a japanese friend said their reputation has slightly improved since the truck fiasco, they are still in the red. i really want to see them getting a renault/nissan deal with PSA because there are a lot of very competant upper middle management that is eager to move up and prove their worth. putting mitsu back on its feet would be a great way to do it! (that is pure speculation and i dont think it would be feasable anyway)

[janez l.]

What a bunch of tossers. Feel really sory for Gardemeister (and Al Qassimi).

[White Sauron]

Damn... Mitsubishi Lancer is the most popular IMPORTED car in Russia. And we're the 5th biggest market for Mitsubishi. And we actually own the Lancer, and I drive my Lancer almost every day now... So I do support this brand both mentally and with money... And for me it's a real disaster they don't come back.

[Tomi]

After all, the positive in this is that there is now many good cars available, if they can keep the sponsoring pacage together and quicly find the cars, everything is still ok.

[General Prim]

FOR LOUSADA: so do you pay me a dinner in Portimao

[MJW]

ok, you cannot blame rally raid or nissan for any of this. the vehicle manufacturer Mitsubishi is not profitable and will not be for quite some time.
Well the Dakar effort that I have just seen on EUROSPORT from Mitsubishi did not look like a low budget effort. I think Mitsu have given up on WRC, on will stick with Rally Raid and PCWRC Group N championships. How many years have we waited for Hyundai and Mitsu to return to WRC?

[Tomi]

How many years have we waited for Hyundai and Mitsu to return to WRC?
Yes when they take off they make promises to come back, maybe so the fans would not get too upset, or to avoid too long explanations.

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Now, I wish that Mitsubishi loses the Dakar..

[Simmi]

Well at the moment they are doing.

[MJW]

Yes when they take off they make promises to come back, maybe so the fans would not get too upset, or to avoid too long explanations.
All the teams that have taken a break from WRC because of bad performing cars have not as yet made a full return. Hyundai, Mitsubishi and Skoda have taken breaks from the WRC but promise to be back, but none have really committed.
Mitsubishi seems the worse, in one minute, out the next. I forget how many drivers careers have been stopped by this, AMcRAE, Panizzi, Galli, Gardemeister - that a fine record.
Its no secret that Subaru had a disatrous year in 2006 and they stuck with it, Citroen took a year out to develop the C4, but in reality they were there last year. I think, Hyundai, and Skoda cant take being beaten and therefore dont play anymore. Mitsu I think are in a big political fight with some part of management wanting rallies and others not. At present I think the non rallies (WRC) are winning.

[Tomi]

All the teams that have taken a break from WRC because of bad performing cars have not as yet made a full return. Hyundai, Mitsubishi and Skoda have taken breaks from the WRC but promise to be back, but none have really committed.
Mitsubishi seems the worse, in one minute, out the next. I forget how many drivers careers have been stopped by this, AMcRAE, Panizzi, Galli, Gardemeister - that a fine record.
Its no secret that Subaru had a disatrous year in 2006 and they stuck with it, Citroen took a year out to develop the C4, but in reality they were there last year. I think, Hyundai, and Skoda cant take being beaten and therefore dont play anymore. Mitsu I think are in a big political fight with some part of management wanting rallies and others not. At present I think the non rallies (WRC) are winning.
Yes sounds reasonable, now it's just to hope the sponsor stays behind the drivers and i belive they do, why else arrange press in Monaco, it's by the way one of the best airlines too.

[Simmi]

I wouldnt commit to rallying if I was top brass from a manufacturer with all the S2000 competition and TV programmes not being shown etc. Its just not stable. Skoda wont be coming back as it has opted for S2000. Cheaper if it all goes wrong im sure. Its like VHS or Betamax, most would rather sit back then risk it.

[cut the b.s.]

ok, you cannot blame rally raid or nissan for any of this. the vehicle manufacturer Mitsubishi is not profitable and will not be for quite some time. . when they do rally raid they win. when they do wrc, they dont. when they do motorsport they dont sell any more cars. simple.


Interesting point, does anyone think rallying sells cars? The Impreza and Evos sell as they are very good cars, but has rally success made anyone here look longingly at a Xsara, a 206, 307 or a focus? Personally it hasnt for me, I like rallying but my cars tend to come from Germany

[ST205GT4]

I'm a little disappointed as I wanted to see Mitsu back, mainly because I like the variety in the cars.

I'm a little confused by their marketing strategy though, although I guess that could be because I'm not in their target demographic for the Dakar stuff. I have pretty close to zero interest in off-road/4wd stuff. Perhaps it's big in Europe? Although I would have thought that the market for those sort of big vehicles would be quite small in Europe in any case.

I wish Toni all the best though. I hope he gets a decent car and has a good go at the championship. Doubt he'll win, but he's entertaining to watch.

[ST205GT4]

Interesting point, does anyone think rallying sells cars? The Impreza and Evos sell as they are very good cars, but has rally success made anyone here look longingly at a Xsara, a 206, 307 or a focus? Personally it hasnt for me, I like rallying but my cars tend to come from Germany

They would if Citroen or Peugeot actually sold cars with a bit of stick. Both Subaru and Mitsubishi sell cars that were originally, or still are, the basis for the cars used in rallying. Where are Citroen or Peugeot's 4wd turbo cars?

[miksu]

"However, at this stage, things were still said to be on track and it was thought that the outfit would still enter the sport, hopefully as a 'Manufacturer Team', but that the word 'Mitsubishi' would not be in the team title.

Under the FIA's regulations though, any team competing as a 'Manufacturer Team', must list a manufacturer, and with Mitsubishi unwilling to allow this, the project appeared to be on shaky ground." crash.net

the name mitsubishi in the team title cannot be the reason, can it? if it is... oh well

[L5->R5/CR]

I'm a little disappointed as I wanted to see Mitsu back, mainly because I like the variety in the cars.

I'm a little confused by their marketing strategy though, although I guess that could be because I'm not in their target demographic for the Dakar stuff. I have pretty close to zero interest in off-road/4wd stuff. Perhaps it's big in Europe? Although I would have thought that the market for those sort of big vehicles would be quite small in Europe in any case.

I wish Toni all the best though. I hope he gets a decent car and has a good go at the championship. Doubt he'll win, but he's entertaining to watch.



You'd think therefore that they would sponsor the TV here to get more press.

You well know the American fascination with oversized vehicles...


Mitsubishi thinks there is more marketing value in winning the Dakar because the Dakar is difficult and hard on cars, you have to have a quality car to survive (nevermind that Nissan quit Dakar because the only countries the give a real twit about it won't be buying SUVs in volume as well as it being a bad return on investment for them).

If you can't win market share in the US, you have to be able to live off of the domestic market. Mitsubishi can't do either one of those things...

[ST205GT4]

True enough. Do they even televise the Dakar on cable in the US?

Although from memory, Mitsu don't even really have an SUV lineup that is that attractive to most Americans. I can't think of an equivalent to say an Avalanche or a Denali etc?

Who are they trying to market to with their Dakar participation?

[koko0703]

Mitsubishi invests in Dakar just because they know they can win it. Nissan, BMW, and VW are good hard working teams but just haven't gotten the last bit of experience Mitsu has so far. But in WRC, the same is not true. Mitsu totally went wrong way in developing WRCar and that lack of experience with current format still hurt them.... With the tradition of winning under Tommi, Mitsu can't stand the situation in WRC. I think same goes for Dakar: Once VW starts beating Mitsu in Dakar, they will withdraw from Dakar too.

I hope Garde gets new car even if it's Impreza WRC2006. Impreza is definitely better than nothing.

[ST205GT4]

It's a silly way to be though. I think David Richards has the right of it. You build up a brand's image by being seen to compete, not just winning. Subaru have created a whole image for their company just by being in the WRC for so long. Mitsu fail to realise this apparently.

[grugsticles]

Mitsubishi invests in Dakar just because they know they can win it. Nissan, BMW, and VW are good hard working teams but just haven't gotten the last bit of experience Mitsu has so far. But in WRC, the same is not true. Mitsu totally went wrong way in developing WRCar and that lack of experience with current format still hurt them.... With the tradition of winning under Tommi, Mitsu can't stand the situation in WRC. I think same goes for Dakar: Once VW starts beating Mitsu in Dakar, they will withdraw from Dakar too.

I hope Garde gets new car even if it's Impreza WRC2006. Impreza is definitely better than nothing.


I agree with what your getting at, but my impression is that Mitsu are too impatient.
I mean, they developed the 05 lancer which at first struggled, but by the end of the season it was on the pace although not quite a pace setter. Hell, it takes a long time to develop a car and I think that Mitsu shot themselves in the foot by quitting WRC when they did. The car had potential!

It still is a quick car even without any development.

[L5->R5/CR]

True enough. Do they even televise the Dakar on cable in the US?


It is on some providers lineups, not others, most all of the major satellite providers don't include it in their basic packages, and it is just the UK feed with one or two extra US personality interviews.



Although from memory, Mitsu don't even really have an SUV lineup that is that attractive to most Americans. I can't think of an equivalent to say an Avalanche or a Denali etc?

Nothing ever stopped them from slapping a new silly name on Dodge products before...

That said I'd only consider an Evo, and even then I don't think I'd buy one. For every STi horror story there are about 50 EVO horror stories here in the states...

SUVs aren't a magic formula. Nissan sells plenty of Titans (debut in 2003) and Pathfinders, with large margins on them...



Who are they trying to market to with their Dakar participation?

Does Mitsubishi even know??? I mean they just keep running the same basic car, with experienced drivers. Seems VW is going to make them work for it and I don't know if they are up to the task, doesn't seem they have the same since of urgency and desire as the VW boys...

[ST205GT4]

That said I'd only consider an Evo, and even then I don't think I'd buy one. For every STi horror story there are about 50 EVO horror stories here in the states...

Must be a US thing that. Don't hear anything like that in Oz. In fact at one of the track days I did recently, one of the race drivers who was instructing me got in and the first thing he said was "why would anyone stick themselves with an STi when you can buy one of these?" (ie an Evo)

[GigiGalliNo1]

US isn't Mitsu's focus Market, they have their own agencies or such in Europe and Australia for example. Now because the Dakar is on, and Mitsu Australia just introduced new SUV's to the Aus market, they're advertising with a Dakar flavour plus the Pajero or Montero (for the Nrth American market) just won an Australian 4WD award.

Plus don't forget Mitsubishi went bankrupt or such a year ago, nearly left the Australian market to be never seen again (did NOT happen) because of Diamler-Chrysler something something... and now Mitsubishi have their priorities (it's Mitsubishi Europe mainly) with the Dakar! So it kinda sucks...

In Aus to continue, they continue to import in good volume of the EVO IX's to compete against the STi's which is good, and you see STi's all the time here so i'm like "meh" but when I rarely see an EVO VII i go OooOoo! and a 8 or 9 it's not a big of a OoOoO but still!! Happy to see them around! :D

Plus did I tell you guys I drove in the same EVO IX that Gigi Galli drove around in at Rally Aus in 05? :D

[L5->R5/CR]

Must be a US thing that. Don't hear anything like that in Oz. In fact at one of the track days I did recently, one of the race drivers who was instructing me got in and the first thing he said was "why would anyone stick themselves with an STi when you can buy one of these?" (ie an Evo)



It isn't that its an Evo. It is however that it is Mitsubishi Motors North America. There are litterally thousands of horror stories from Evo owners regarding the treatment they have recieved. Ranging from drivers who participate in Autocross (auto salon over there perhaps? time trials around low speed cone designated courses) in separate vehicles having warranty work not honored on drive trains (participating in performance driving events appearantly means you are incapable of following break in procedures so when your turbo explodes and frags your motor after 700 miles it is because you were driving too hard instead of faulty parts), to some dealerships flat out refusing to do warranty work...


Subaru supports their owners and breeds incredible brand loyalty here in the US while Mitsubishi seemingly does everything possible to not have anything to do with owners after the purchase (that and shady financing practices...).



You can argue that Mitsubishi isn't focused on the American market, which is fine. But as I said before, if you can't gain/hold market share in the US without heavy incentives, you have to be competitive and healthy in the domestic market. Mitsubishi is neither (and I'd challenge anyone to provide an example of an automaker that is financially sound that isn't either highly competitive and proffitable in their domestic market (I count the EU as one whole market) or competitive in the US market).

[ST205GT4]

I used to frequent the Sube forums quite a bit whilst living in good ole Wyoming as I was tossing up which way to go when I got home and I saw lots of threads from owners who'd been shafted by Subaru on warranty. In fact if you check out this link from NASIOC for example:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240471

You'll see plenty of upset people. I can't find the thread but there was one ages ago about people having their license plates harvested off of SCCA results pages on the net and then having their cars marked for no warranty work due to "racing". It was especially galling for early STI owners as Sube NA were giving people SCCA memberships on selling them the cars!

I think they are as bad as one another in the US.

Here in Oz, Mitsu are a bit more accomodating. The recent Evo Nationals held at one of the race tracks over east attracted Ralliart's rally support truck, their rally car, their driver, the head of Ralliart Australia, a demo Ralliart Colt for people to do hot laps as a passenger in and prizes donated by Ralliart.

Some of the dealerships over my side of the country also organise track days where you can take your car and be instructed by people like Ross Dunkerton (ex Australian Rally Champ). Even though the cars get flogged at days like these, they are considered "Driver Training". I made a point of asking just for the very purpose of clarifying the warranty position.

No idea what Sube Oz are like. I'd be surprised if they didn't do similar things.

Don't disagree with your statements about Mitsu needing to be strong in their domestic market. Nor that they need to have a decent presence in the US. Mind you, if they have to discount they won't be alone. The GM Employee's discount sales ring any bells? I know a mate of mine saved huge amounts of a new Avalanche...god knows what GM are going to do to maintain sales now though!

[White Sauron]

You shouldn't judge Mitsu so... They are good, but in a difficult situation. Just imagine, if one of their biggest markets is Russia, then what can they do? Of course they're in troubles. Imagine if you were very poor and trying to live buy, would you spend a big part of your capital on participating in different shows rather than buying a food and water? No, of course. They do the same. Give them time...

[A.F.F.]

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/urheilu/uutinen.asp?id=1298171

This is how fast Finnish press reacts.

[DonJippo]

You shouldn't judge Mitsu so... They are good, but in a difficult situation. Just imagine, if one of their biggest markets is Russia, then what can they do? Of course they're in troubles. Imagine if you were very poor and trying to live buy, would you spend a big part of your capital on participating in different shows rather than buying a food and water? No, of course. They do the same. Give them time...

In this case Mitsu would just give the right to use the name and cars, funding was about to come from sponsors and not from the factory...

[JAM]

So, in US people buy cars and take the car to the limits on tracks and after that want warranty? :D ... One of the dumbest thing i ever heard.

In fact is strange that Mitsubishi didn't let use the brand by a team.

But someone could explain us better about this... if that "someone" really wants explain something...

[White Sauron]

In this case Mitsu would just give the right to use the name and cars, funding was about to come from sponsors and not from the factory...

Maybe the reason is that if the team perform badly, people will say it's Mitsubishi fault, even thought it's just the name of the team. That was also the reason, why at the beginning of the last year Citroen didn't want its name to be associated with Kronos. But once Loeb started winning, they appered on the scene. The same is for Mitsubishi. But they understand, that their team won't be as good as kronos was last year, so its performance can only damage Mitsubishi image futher, so they decided it was better for them not to return even with just a name. I think it's a good decision from this side of a problem. If I were a marketologist in Mitsubishi, I would do the same. Either return with a full works team or not return at all.

[swordsman]

http://www.crash.net/news_view~t~Official--No-Mitsubishi-WRC-cars-to-run-in-2007-~cid~4~id~141772.htm

[Mickey T]

Toni is lightyears faster than Atkinson atleast on tarmac, in worst case he has to take a pee twice on every stage to keep Atkinson ahead.
wanna little wager on that?

stage wins and stage top threes, not necessarily final rally results...

[Tomi]

Gardemeister says in a interview that the Arabs will sponsor an other car make, but its possible that the drivers changes also.

[miksu]

Toni says that the arabs wanted a longer deal with mitsu and mitsu didnt, and thats where it went down the whole deal... He says it's fift time he loses car under him. No wonder he's pissed.

[jonkka]

Where are Citroen or Peugeot's 4wd turbo cars?

In museums or scrapyards, mostly.

[jonkka]

Interesting point, does anyone think rallying sells cars? The Impreza and Evos sell as they are very good cars, but has rally success made anyone here look longingly at a Xsara, a 206, 307 or a focus? Personally it hasnt for me, I like rallying but my cars tend to come from Germany

This is marketing's eternal dilemma. Do commercials sell products? No, stores do that. But in order to get customers to the stores and to select our products, you have to make them aware of our product. Hence terms like "product awareness" or "brand awareness".

You raised a valid question which had been discussed in Mitsu's case for a long. They rallied Evo, pure performance machine that formed basis for the real rally car but at the same time company sold in Finland (for example) only crappy FWD 1600cc machines that were light years removed from Tommi's WRC tool. That lack of offering didn't help Mitsu's sales.

Did withdrawal from WRC help Peugeot's sales? At least I'll steer clear from them from now on. Sorry Peugeot.

[Fischer]

This is very pathetic of Mitsubishi, it proves how weak Mitsubishi is. I just hope Gardemeister somehow starts in Monte Carlo or Sweden with another car.

[DonJippo]

Gardemeister says in a interview that the Arabs will sponsor an other car make, but its possible that the drivers changes also.

After hearing the interview I don't think we will see Gardemeister in WRC this year :(

[Tomi]

After hearing the interview I don't think we will see Gardemeister in WRC this year :(
yes might be so, 50/60, better wait and see whats happen.

[alleskids]

The Fly Emirates WRT will desperatly be looking for other WRCars, and especcially Suburu Impreza WRCars. Maybe they stole Mats Ostbergs car. Khalid acting as the watch out, and Toni braking in the car, twisting the wiring under the dashboard to get the car started :) .

[alleskids]

The Fly Emirates WRT is desperatly looking for other WRCars, especially for Impreza WRCars. Maybe they stole Mats Ostberg's Impreza. Khalid Al Qasimmi acting as watch out and Toni Gardemeister breaking in the car and twisting the wiring under the dashboard to get the car started :) .

[cannyboy]

So, in US people buy cars and take the car to the limits on tracks and after that want warranty? :D ... One of the dumbest thing i ever heard.


Subaru just did that for me - put new brakes in the car for free under warranty after autocrossing for two years.
Hence, I will buy another. Got to love the US sometimes!

Mitsubishi dealers tend to be asshats of the highest order, hence their problems.

[COD]

Toni says that the arabs wanted a longer deal with mitsu and mitsu didnt, and thats where it went down the whole deal... He says it's fift time he loses car under him. No wonder he's pissed.

If this is true (and why not), then it must prove that despite their promises, Mitsubishi is not coming back to WRC anytime soon.

Anyway a strange decision not to allow the cars to be used as there was a budget for it. But the Japs have made some strange decisions before also.

[miksu]

If this is true (and why not), then it must prove that despite their promises, Mitsubishi is not coming back to WRC anytime soon.

Anyway a strange decision not to allow the cars to be used as there was a budget for it. But the Japs have made some strange decisions before also.

maybe they didnt want long term relationship, because they have something planned already for future...who knows. But yes, very strange...

[jacko]

Arabs involved in rally, seems to me not a right combination..
The arabs only need deliver the money to a strong privat team (like Bozian) and everthing went okay!

[L5->R5/CR]

I used to frequent the Sube forums quite a bit whilst living in good ole Wyoming as I was tossing up which way to go when I got home and I saw lots of threads from owners who'd been shafted by Subaru on warranty. In fact if you check out this link from NASIOC for example:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240471

You'll see plenty of upset people. I can't find the thread but there was one ages ago about people having their license plates harvested off of SCCA results pages on the net and then having their cars marked for no warranty work due to "racing". It was especially galling for early STI owners as Sube NA were giving people SCCA memberships on selling them the cars!

I think they are as bad as one another in the US.

Here in Oz, Mitsu are a bit more accomodating. The recent Evo Nationals held at one of the race tracks over east attracted Ralliart's rally support truck, their rally car, their driver, the head of Ralliart Australia, a demo Ralliart Colt for people to do hot laps as a passenger in and prizes donated by Ralliart.

Some of the dealerships over my side of the country also organise track days where you can take your car and be instructed by people like Ross Dunkerton (ex Australian Rally Champ). Even though the cars get flogged at days like these, they are considered "Driver Training". I made a point of asking just for the very purpose of clarifying the warranty position.

No idea what Sube Oz are like. I'd be surprised if they didn't do similar things.

Don't disagree with your statements about Mitsu needing to be strong in their domestic market. Nor that they need to have a decent presence in the US. Mind you, if they have to discount they won't be alone. The GM Employee's discount sales ring any bells? I know a mate of mine saved huge amounts of a new Avalanche...god knows what GM are going to do to maintain sales now though!



NASIOC is funny...

One of the magazines I work for every so often is more or less an Automotive industry insider piece. About a year ago they did a feature on Mitsubishi and used Better Business Bureau claims and one other database to track complaints about Mitsubishi to talk about their poor market outlook (and compared them with Subaru). Subaru has more market share, but Subaru and Subaru dealers had less complaints by almost 50:1 ratio than Mitsubishi from 2003-fourth quarter 2004.

I'll see if I can access it online or still have a print copy.






So, in US people buy cars and take the car to the limits on tracks and after that want warranty? :D ... One of the dumbest thing i ever heard.

JAM if you browsed that website the list of dumbest things you ever heard of will skyrocket. It is an interesting website, but attracts a more, we'll call them gullible, clientelle...

[Brother John]

Where are Citroen or Peugeot's 4wd turbo cars?

Here they are, ready for Rallycross!
George Tracy his 307cc voor D1

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx011.jpg?t=1168281409

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx004.jpg?t=1168281377

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx013.jpg?t=1168281291

[miksu]

Toni WILL drive Mitsu in Monte and Sweden, maybe also in Norway!!!! Jouhki made a deal with straight contact to mitsu :)

[Donney]

I don't know if saying that's good or wait until the rally starts :p :

[miksu]

I don't know if saying that's good or wait until the rally starts :p :

yeah, true... maybe i got a little bit too excited :P so lets wait now...

[Mauri A]

Toni WILL drive Mitsu in Monte and Sweden, maybe also in Norway!!!! Jouhki made a deal with straight contact to mitsu :)
Source? The local Mitsu man, Heikki Poranen didn´t know, but said it´s possible.

[paxtech]

Arabs involved in rally, seems to me not a right combination..
The arabs only need deliver the money to a strong privat team (like Bozian) and everthing went okay!

Racial discrimination? Why isn't it right? If I had that much money I'd be in rallying myself too. Even if I drive crazy or as slow as molasses, who cares? It's my money I'm spending so critics can go to ****. And I'm not arab just to clear things out. Just can't stand it when someone starts racist comments. Al Qassimi has every right to compete. It is my understanding that Toni get sponsorship from Al Qassimi's team. Without Al Qassimi, Toni can't get into 5 rallies this season, IMO, so just be thankful for that.

[DonJippo]

Source? The local Mitsu man, Heikki Poranen didn´t know, but said it´s possible.

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/muutlajit/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/muutlajit/2007/01/496102

[Fischer]

Not everyone is Finnish here, can you translate that article ?

[Mauri A]

Not everyone is Finnish here, can you translate that article ?

Really? If so, go on Don Jippo.

[Simmi]

Racial discrimination? Why isn't it right? If I had that much money I'd be in rallying myself too. Even if I drive crazy or as slow as molasses, who cares? It's my money I'm spending so critics can go to ****. And I'm not arab just to clear things out. Just can't stand it when someone starts racist comments. Al Qassimi has every right to compete. It is my understanding that Toni get sponsorship from Al Qassimi's team. Without Al Qassimi, Toni can't get into 5 rallies this season, IMO, so just be thankful for that.

Its not overtly or intentionally racist IMO so lets not start going down that road.

[DonJippo]

Not everyone is Finnish here, can you translate that article ?

Here you are:

"John Easton from Mitsubishi Motorsport confirms that they were in talks with a Arabic team for a deal of running a private Mitsubishi team on 2007. Negotiations ended because team's sponsor and Mitsubishi were not able to agree about all details on time and now the whole deal is off. He also said that it was Mitsubishi that was not willing to accept those details and the time just run out. Then he continues saying that there is still going to be some events during 2007 where we will see Mitsu WRC like in 2006.

Rest of the story is about how Toni's manager Mr Jouhki managed to make a direct deal with Mitsubishi about Toni driving Lancer WRC in Monte and Sweden and that there are hopes Norway could be in the same package.

Article also says that according to unconfirmed news Arab sponsor is looking for a similar kind of deal with some other brand but nothing about what that other brand could be."

[rallymull]

Mitsubishi have some how gone down hill quickly, Tommi Makinen won 4 world titles with them and then they changed from the Evo 6 to the Evo 7 and everything went tits up. After nearly 8 years they are still struggling to be competitive in the wrc.

[paxtech]

Success in the WRC is somehow a mix of good car engineering, good driver, and luck. Mitsu, IMO, has been in the right track in terms of car engineering, and I believe 06 has been the year when the Lancer WRC05 could have truly shown its potential. Mitsu's drivers were somehow specialists, and they couldn't deliver when it's not their favorite surface. So Mitsu could use an all-around driver that could deliver. Take the case of Loeb in a Citroen Xsara as an example. Good driver with lots of luck, and a well-engineered car, so even with a privateer team, Loeb was able to win the championship, even when he was just watching TV from his home Marcus can't beat him :D

[JAM]

Subaru just did that for me - put new brakes in the car for free under warranty after autocrossing for two years.
Hence, I will buy another. Got to love the US sometimes!

Mitsubishi dealers tend to be asshats of the highest order, hence their problems.


If you were a Subaru dealer or importer you probably look at the balance $$$$ and wouldn't say that. But that's the old question... i look at my bossom and nothing else.

Maybe you should make some PWRC rallyes and after that ask new brakes under warrantu to your dealer... a very economic way of doing rallying :D

[L5->R5/CR]

If you were a Subaru dealer or importer you probably look at the balance $$$$ and wouldn't say that. But that's the old question... i look at my bossom and nothing else.

Maybe you should make some PWRC rallyes and after that ask new brakes under warrantu to your dealer... a very economic way of doing rallying :D



A lot of subaru dealers sell their vehicles without incentives, and get lots of service department work, and some even have performance part departments or installation services. It all depends on the business model.

For a dealership, selling someone $1,500.00 in performance parts, then getting $2,000.00 in services for the installation of those parts, on a car with $2,000.00 in proffit from the original sale, justifies taking a couple hundred dollars or maybe even $1,000.00 in warranty work that could be denied...

Mitsubishi lacks the ability to implement this strategy where as a lof of Subaru dealers have embraced it fully and completely with incredibly high levels of customer loyalty and spending (people will pay $900 for that new intake instead of $700 (when it costs $200) if the $900.00 one won't void their warranty afterall). This isn't the thread for this but oh well.


I work for the rally team of one subaru dealership that implements this exact strategy. This business model brings in enough revenue to run a competitive car in the a mid level class at 8-10 events, in addition to having 4 full time employees. This model adds to the dealerships bottom line thousands and thousands of dollars as well as large amounts of customer loyalty and additional service department work. They probably warranty a decent amount of work that they don't need to but they also generate a lot more revenue and proffit overall. For example there are 3 Subaru dealerships within 20 minutes of this one, this one charges full list for parts, as well as higher service department rates then the others, and always has all 9 service bays full (plus an entire additional offsite facility that handles their oil changes as performance installations) 6 days a week....

Spend $500.00 to make $700.00...

[Tomi]

Source? The local Mitsu man, Heikki Poranen didn´t know, but said it´s possible.

btw, do you have much snow there? Has Poranen been "tamppaamassa" the arctic rally stages to good condition already? :)

[ST205GT4]

Here they are, ready for Rallycross!
George Tracy his 307cc voor D1

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx011.jpg?t=1168281409

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx004.jpg?t=1168281377

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx013.jpg?t=1168281291


Awesome looking cars, but of course I meant where are their 4wd turbo road cars that the public can buy? Sube and Mtisu know how to leverage their rallying reps. Citroen and Peugeot have failed to do the same in spectacular fashion.

[Tom206wrc]

Here they are, ready for Rallycross!
George Tracy his 307cc voor D1

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx011.jpg?t=1168281409

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx004.jpg?t=1168281377

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/03dublinwrx/George%20Tracey/307rallyx013.jpg?t=1168281291




Thanks for these pictures !! :p :

[Mauri A]

btw, do you have much snow there? Has Poranen been "tamppaamassa" the arctic rally stages to good condition already? :)
We had some 20 cm´s, but yesterday it melted away almost completely. So, no snow banks to lean yet, Heikki praying for snow.

[Tomi]

We had some 20 cm´s, but yesterday it melted away almost completely. So, no snow banks to lean yet, Heikki praying for snow.
Yes i bet he does, a little early spring this year :)

[Tomi]

Forgot to ask you Mauri, do you work still for Jyskälä, in any way?

[Krigen]

Toni WILL drive Mitsu in Monte and Sweden, maybe also in Norway!!!! Jouhki made a deal with straight contact to mitsu :)

Is this confirmed?? If So! Great...

[Mauri A]

Forgot to ask you Mauri, do you work still for Jyskälä, in any way?
My best decision was made in 1978, I quitted. Twenty years was enough, too much travelling, some 150 days a year. As an observer for FIA in rallies around, I soon realized that my reports were not taken seriously. FIA was then in complete control of the mediterrian mafia, so no way to get through with your own proposals.

And, working as the only paid person in the whole organisation, with 5000 volunteers, everybody with their own opinions, was more than difficult.
Not seldom I was told that you are paid for this hobby, we are not!

Anyway, it was fine for the 15 first years!

Sorry for this jeremiade, but the older you get, the wiser you´ll be, at least in your own opinion!

[Tomi]

My best decision was made in 1978, I quitted. Twenty years was enough, too much travelling, some 150 days a year. As an observer for FIA in rallies around, I soon realized that my reports were not taken seriously. FIA was then in complete control of the mediterrian mafia, so no way to get through with your own proposals.

And, working as the only paid person in the whole organisation, with 5000 volunteers, everybody with their own opinions, was more than difficult.
Not seldom I was told that you are paid for this hobby, we are not!

Anyway, it was fine for the 15 first years!

Sorry for this jeremiade, but the older you get, the wiser you´ll be, at least in your own opinion!

ahaa i see, thanks anyway for making a good rally. Do you remember anything about the stages in Tampere direction?

[Finni]

What can we say? Mitsubishi is like a women - unpredictable and untrustable.

[noel157]

Women or never wrong, they just change their mind......

[JAM]

One thing nobody explained... who called angry from Japan and why he (or she?!?) was so angry?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Women or never wrong, they just change their mind......

So true!

/// a t t

[[WRCRR]]

One thing that has been overlooked in this Mitsu/Arab-saga is that besides Gardemeister and Pons who will be present in Monte, Sweden & Norway (+ Hänninen in Norway) with MMSP, Al-Qassimi will also be present in the Adu Dhabi Subaru Rally Team entered Subaru Impreza WRC (at LEAST in Norway, prolly in Monte and Sweden too). So all in all there is now even more WRC-cars entered...so it's not all bad...

[GigiGalliNo1]

late entries with Qassimi be accepted? I always wanted to know.

[grugsticles]

So let me catch up here...

Mitsu/Toni/Al-Qassimi deal fell through because of Mitsu not liking something. Now Toni is now going to drive another car under other backing, same for Al-Qassimi in a Subaru, so...

Does that mean the Mitsu deal is back on again for later in the season?

[miksu]

So let me catch up here...

Mitsu/Toni/Al-Qassimi deal fell through because of Mitsu not liking something. Now Toni is now going to drive another car under other backing, same for Al-Qassimi in a Subaru, so...

Does that mean the Mitsu deal is back on again for later in the season?

Everything means nothing. I think Al-Qassimi is still with the same backing, different car. Lets wait and see...

[JAM]

One thing nobody explained... who called angry from Japan and why he (or she?!?) was so angry?

I repeat this question because everybody seem to talk about what is not essential... Why someone at Mitsubishi didn't want the deal with Emirates?

[alleskids]

A very good question. You would think they could use the money, any team can, but especially a brand with a low cash flow. Fly Emirates wanted to sponsor for a few years, so how bad ca that be ?

[miksu]

also quotes from the mmsp boss in britain, who ever it was, said that there was some little details that needed to be fixed, and it didnt happen soon enough. We will never know the facts about this. Couple of weeks from here i think no-one is even interested, i have lost mine already. Fact is, i hope, Toni and other guys are driving mitsu few rallies at a time...

[klm-607]

Pons on his way back to the WRC
Spaniard testing with Mitsubishi
[12/01/07 - 15:32]

A late call up for Pons from Mitsubishi

Having done on record to state that he would not compete in the World Rally Championship this year, Xevi Pons may be about to break back into the sport. The Spaniard has spent two days testing a Mitsubishi Lancer at the MIRA test facility.

Speaking at the ‘Autosport International' show at the NEC exhibition centre in Birmingham, Mitsubishi Operations Manager John Easton confirmed that he has asked the FIA permission to change his second driver for Monte Carlo and the Swedish Rally.

Mitsubishi has three entries for Norway with Pons, Toni Gardemeister and Juho Hanninen. The team are aiming to enter two cars into the Portuguese Rally.

Pons finished seventh in the drivers' standings last year with 32 points.

Earl ALEXANDER
© CAPSIS International

[JAM]

also quotes from the mmsp boss in britain, who ever it was, said that there was some little details that needed to be fixed, and it didnt happen soon enough. We will never know the facts about this. Couple of weeks from here i think no-one is even interested, i have lost mine already. Fact is, i hope, Toni and other guys are driving mitsu few rallies at a time...

Maybe General Prim could tell something interesting...

[AndyRAC]

They would if Citroen or Peugeot actually sold cars with a bit of stick. Both Subaru and Mitsubishi sell cars that were originally, or still are, the basis for the cars used in rallying. Where are Citroen or Peugeot's 4wd turbo cars?

Have you seen the 2 'Loeb by Citroen' cars? How bad is that C4,just naff I'm afraid, not even 2Litre I believe and the BHP is way too low. C'mon Citroen, you can do better than than that, that is just a half ar*ed effort. Stick a powerful 2L engine in it, preferably turbo charged. Loeb should be ashamed to be linked with such a c*ap car!