New quali regs

[Bagwan]

New quali regs for '08 coming in .
First Q will be 20 minutes , second stays at 15 and 3rd goes to 10 .
Drivers will not be allowed to refuel after 3rd Q .

Sounds good to me , although the way it used to be without segmented Q was better by far .

[I am evil Homer]

Me too...the final "fuel burn" thing was a farce.

[FIA]

Do well! Be more interseting.

[ioan]

Drivers will not be allowed to refuel after 3rd Q .

What about during Q3, can they refuel during the session!

[Bagwan]

What about during Q3, can they refuel during the session!


Good , no , very good question .
I don't think that has been leaked yet .

[Valve Bounce]

Me too...the final "fuel burn" thing was a farce.

I would prefer no refuelling restrictions during or after Q3. Just let them go for it - fastest car get's pole.

But then, I am just wishing for perfection - it will never happen. :(

[ShiftingGears]

Race fuel quali is a joke. Also, where'd you get that info?

[Bagwan]

Race fuel quali is a joke. Also, where'd you get that info?

FeedMeF1

[Valve Bounce]

FeedMeF1

Could we have a LINK PLEASE

[truefan72]

everything is fine until Q3

Just let them go out on whatever fuel they want and give us some real quality times and exctiement. They should stipulate that drivers need to run a minimum of 6 laps.

That fuel issue has been a pet pieve of mine for a while. I like the itnruige to comeon sunday instead of the fuel strategies playing out on Saturday.

[Valve Bounce]

everything is fine until Q3

Just let them go out on whatever fuel they want and give us some real quality times and exctiement. They should stipulate that drivers need to run a minimum of 6 laps.

That fuel issue has been a pet pieve of mine for a while. I like the itnruige to comeon sunday instead of the fuel strategies playing out on Saturday.


Like I said "No refuelling restrictions during Q3" would be the best direction. Have the FIA ever considered this possibility?

As long as they don't permit changing tyres, which will eliminate qualifying tyres which was just plain extravagent.

[Hawkmoon]

New quali regs for '08 coming in .
First Q will be 20 minutes , second stays at 15 and 3rd goes to 10 .
Drivers will not be allowed to refuel after 3rd Q .

Sounds good to me , although the way it used to be without segmented Q was better by far .

So, no change then.

Why do they tinker around the edges with the length of sessions? It will have no meaningful effect on qualifying. All they have done is give an extra 5 minutes of the Super Aguris and Force Indias trying to get through Q1 and 5 minutes less of the pole position shoot-out.

Shortening Q3 still leaves us with the stupid fuel burning. Sure, we have less of it but we also have less of the actual qualy laps.

Why can't they just get rid of fuel-in qualifying? It hasn't done anything to improve the show and annoys the hell out of a lot of fans. Thanks Max, you twit!

[Ranger]

They should just leave Q1 and Q2 and have a shootout in Q3. Or get rid of Q3 fuel qualy.

[Valve Bounce]

To date, my standard practice is to go for my shower after Q2, then come back for the last bit of Q3 and I havn't missed anything at all. Surely to goodness the FIA must realise that hte first three quarters of Q3 means bugger-all. :(

[jso1985]

and with race-fuel, no matter how short it is it will only get interesting in the final minute.

[Valve Bounce]

and with race-fuel, no matter how short it is it will only get interesting in the final minute.


...............when we are all confused as to who is running a one lapper, who is running light, and who is running heavy. Why bother watching Q3 because you don't really know what it means.

[Garry Walker]

Even more farcical than before. How much alcohol had they consumed before coming up with it? This is a serious question, I guess around 1 litre of Vodka was needed.

[MAX_THRUST]

Q3 was a pointless, missleading exercise this really, although it did keep a few surprises come race day.

Hell give them 10 minutes to drive like stink and re-fuel at the end of the session to what ever they want. We still won't know come race day who has what on board, but the fastest guy will be at the front.

If they can't do the sensible thing, just reverse the whole damn grid.......lots of overtaking then.

[maxu05]

I think they should have the top ten qualifyers from a 30 minute session have a top ten shootout, like in the V8 supercars. One warmup lap, then your shoot out lap. The World Superbikes have had a similar system for quite a while now, (super pole), and it works a treat. It's entertaining, and fair.

[markabilly]

Q3 was a pointless, missleading exercise this really, although it did keep a few surprises come race day.

Hell give them 10 minutes to drive like stink and re-fuel at the end of the session to what ever they want. We still won't know come race day who has what on board, but the fastest guy will be at the front.

If they can't do the sensible thing, just reverse the whole damn grid.......lots of overtaking then.


No, the smart ones will be racing for last on the grid....besides they would need to lengthen the race by at least four hours to have enough pit stops for all the necessary passing for the fastest to get to the front.

What they could do is split the race, whoever fastest In Q, statrs where they are in order of sppeed and finsihes as best they can, first half points based on who finishes wherever, with the same points scored as now, then a second race later in the day, again same points for finishes, but with the finishing order from the first race in reverse order, so whoever finished lastin first race, now starts first and so on ...

Plus with reverse order and it being last race, everyone can be more free to crash out trying to pass....and of course, no blue falgs for second race either....



and with race-fuel, no matter how short it is it will only get interesting in the final minute.


To date, my standard practice is to go for my shower after Q2, then come back for the last bit of Q3 and I havn't missed anything at all. Surely to goodness the FIA must realise that hthe first three quarters of Q3 means bugger-all. :(
Perhaps it is because of selling those minutes for TV ads that the changes are really being made. perhaps Q3 and the last minutes of Q1 get most sponsors wth the ratings being highest, and they are trying to make the pie bigger and spread it around to make more money off TV

[Mark]

What Martin Brundle has been saying for a while is that you should get the teams to tell the race stewards before Q3 what their race fuel load is going to be but then allow them to run whatever fuel they want in the session.

[Bagwan]

OK , here's where I stand on this :
The issue that was solved by a 3 stage quali format was that the front runners never would show on the track until late in quals , after the track was rubbered in by the backmarkers .
1 Hour of qualifying was then segmented , as selling an empty track was difficult for sponsors to grasp .

I propose it be broken into two 1/2 hour segments , with the use of combined time , as in skiing , ensuring teams will field cars in both halves of the session , and as early as possible to try to avoid traffic .
Another development of the idea would be to run them individually in the second session in reverse order to the first .

One other issue that bugs me about the current system is that it isn't necessary for the front runners to run hard at all in the first session .
Either of these ideas would solve that problem as well .


When we weren't dealing with race fuel in 1 hour Q , we had an idea of who had the outright speed over a lap . We had laps sometimes so close that 3 drivers had times the same to 3 digits , and pole that wasn't secure until after the flag .

Now , we get little indication until the first pit stop , just who really had the best car or the best lap .
Even team-mates can't really be compared until one pits first .

Poles meant something more than having less fuel than your team-mate .

[Valve Bounce]

OK , here's where I stand on this :


Poles meant something more than having less fuel than your team-mate ..................or other teams cars.

Exactly my point.

[janneppi]

.

I propose it be broken into two 1/2 hour segments , with the use of combined time , as in skiing , ensuring teams will field cars in both halves of the session , and as early as possible to try to avoid traffic .
Another development of the idea would be to run them individually in the second session in reverse order to the first .

One other issue that bugs me about the current system is that it isn't necessary for the front runners to run hard at all in the first session .
Either of these ideas would solve that problem as well .

I've been dreaming of a similar system myself, with only the top 10 top 8 in the last session to make at least the midfielders fight to make it into the last session.

[scaliwag]

Now this may sound fanciful, however here's my suggestion, Q1/Q2 20 min's each, Q3 5 min's with no refuel before race, the fuel left in the tank is what you start the race with.
If I'm right it would give the lesser teams the chance to run extremely light and gain position at the front of the grid.

Although said teams have very little chance of being in the top ten at the conclusion of the race, it would (A) help them re sponsorship.
(B) Create more excitement, what say you?

Regards scaliwag.

[DazzlaF1]

Me too...the final "fuel burn" thing was a farce.
Too complicated as well

[Valve Bounce]

Now this may sound fanciful, however here's my suggestion, Q1/Q2 20 min's each, Q3 5 min's with no refuel before race, the fuel left in the tank is what you start the race with.
If I'm right it would give the lesser teams the chance to run extremely light and gain position at the front of the grid.

Although said teams have very little chance of being in the top ten at the conclusion of the race, it would (A) help them re sponsorship.
(B) Create more excitement, what say you?

Regards scaliwag.

Well, Q's 1 & 2 are going to be a big hit on TV, that's for sure. :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

All of these proposals are needlessly complicated. Reading about them has given me a headache. Time to go back to one session or single-lap, I think. Anything that needs explaining in more than one sentence is a bad thing.

[Hawkmoon]

All of these proposals are needlessly complicated. Reading about them has given me a headache. Time to go back to one session or single-lap, I think. Anything that needs explaining in more than one sentence is a bad thing.

I agree. Aggregate times and such are a complication that qualifying doesn't need.

Qualifying should be a simple affair, ie. he who goes fastest gets pole.

I think the the current 3-part system is almost right. The three segements ensure some kind of track action throughout qualifying. The problem is the addiction the rule makers have to race-fuel in qualifying.

The sooner these people get it into their thick skulls that it hasn't done a single thing to improve the racing the better. We don't get the mixed-up grids they envisaged in 2003 and we never have. Why stick to something that is universally disliked when it hasn't achieved it's aim?

I also think the sessions should be shorter, not longer. The longer the session the more chance of nothing happening at the start.

[markabilly]

:rotate: Back to a one or two lap, single car Q :s pin:

Or put them all out there for fifteen minutes, in random order chosen by drawing, and whoever passes the most cars gets pole :idea: and with second place starting second and so on and so forth

[markabilly]

Or put them all out there for fifteen minutes, in random order chosen by drawing, and whoever passes the most cars gets pole :idea: and with second place starting second and so on and so forth

Opps really dumb bad idea...there would be no passing because running for 15 minutes, there would be no need for pitstops..... :(

[BDunnell]

I agree. Aggregate times and such are a complication that qualifying doesn't need.

Qualifying should be a simple affair, ie. he who goes fastest gets pole.

The most absurd scenario, of course, is when there is such a change in the weather between one part of qualifying and another that a time substantially slower than one set by a car that went out of qualifying after the first past ends up being the pole position time.

Back to basics is certainly best in this case.

[gloomyDAY]

Wow! This is a climb up the ladder for the FIA.

The rules went from stupid to just plain dumb.

[Valve Bounce]

All of these proposals are needlessly complicated. Reading about them has given me a headache. Time to go back to one session or single-lap, I think. Anything that needs explaining in more than one sentence is a bad thing.

Started your Christmas celebrations early, have you?? :eek:

[jso1985]

One-lap qualy without race fuel would be the best for me, there's isn't the "dead" 40 minutes of nothing from the 12-lap old qualy format and fastest car gets the pole, leave fuel strategies for the next day

[truefan72]

One-lap qualy without race fuel would be the best for me, there's isn't the "dead" 40 minutes of nothing from the 12-lap old qualy format and fastest car gets the pole, leave fuel strategies for the next day


unfortunately,that system has proven to be not only boring,but based on potentially changing weather and track conditions fairly unbalanced to the entire field.

If you are going to do a one lap thing then with 22 cars I would suggest
at least 2 rounds and a final shoot out with the top 10 cars

1. round one, cars go in the order of how they finished previous race
i.e,first place starts last
2. Round two, cars go in in reverse order of how they finished prevois race
i.e. first place starts first
- aggregate time are calculated

3. round three, top 10 go out for one lap in order how they finished on aggregate time with no fuel restrictions.
i.e. #10 drives first, #1 last

That should bring the show to around 80 minutes due to staggered starts.
upon completion of the timed lap, the car must maintain adequate speed until the pit lane entry.
All cars will get enough camera times, and you can't say it wont be exciting

all session long

[gloomyDAY]

unfortunately,that system has proven to be not only boring,but based on potentially changing weather and track conditions fairly unbalanced to the entire field.

If you are going to do a one lap thing then with 22 cars I would suggest
at least 2 rounds and a final shoot out with the top 10 cars

1. round one, cars go in the order of how they finished previous race
i.e,first place starts last
2. Round two, cars go in in reverse order of how they finished prevois race
i.e. first place starts first
- aggregate time are calculated

3. round three, top 10 go out for one lap in order how they finished on aggregate time with no fuel restrictions.
i.e. #10 drives first, #1 last

That should bring the show to around 80 minutes due to staggered starts.
upon completion of the timed lap, the car must maintain adequate speed until the pit lane entry.
All cars will get enough camera times, and you can't say it wont be exciting

all session long
....what?

I'm just going to go out on a limb and state that I'm probably not the only one confused with your proposal. There is still the likelihood that conditions will change with staggered starts. So, what you're suggesting doesn't solve that problem.

1 driver, 1 car, 1 lap, and no fuel/tire restrictions.

[Valve Bounce]

Oh!! for God's sake - just let them go out and run around hairy flatters. Fastest guy get's pole. What's wrong with that?

[gloomyDAY]

Oh!! for God's sake - just let them go out and run around hairy flatters. Fastest guy get's pole. What's wrong with that? Fine with me. Hell that would even give us a taste of the race!

[tinchote]

Am I missing something, or is my signature right on the money? If there's no refuelling in or after Q3, this means that every car will do just a single flying lap: otherwise, you pay the price of having to stop earlier in the race.

The good thing is that now I'm guaranteed another year of good sleeping on Saturdays :s

[airshifter]

Oh!! for God's sake - just let them go out and run around hairy flatters. Fastest guy get's pole. What's wrong with that?


It works for me. Give them 15 minutes, the entire field running at once. They find their own gaps in traffic and run any fuel load they want.

[markabilly]

It works for me. Give them 15 minutes, the entire field running at once. They find their own gaps in traffic and run any fuel load they want.
Yeah!!!

but extra points for passes!!!
And those who crash out get to repir their cars without penalty

[Valve Bounce]

It works for me. Give them 15 minutes, the entire field running at once. They find their own gaps in traffic and run any fuel load they want.


I have no problem with Q1 and Q2 as it is to sift out the slow pokes, and then the remaining 12 get to go hairy flatters over 20 minutes.

This is as simple as possible, and will keep interest of quals over the entire hour.

Surely even a congenital idiot like Max should be able to understand this concept. :rolleyes: