Montecarlo to enter IRC in 2009 ! [Archive]

14th December 2007, 10:39

I doubt that. Now you have only two real contenders in IRC, Peugeot and Fiat. It seems that it will be a Peugeot cup in 2008...

And in pWRC there is only Subaru and Mitsubishi.

Also, I think Abarth will show much stronger next year with Alen and Basso driving.

Isthmus

30th January 2008, 00:26

Can a WRC car(Cuoq for exemple or others privateers) compete in Monte 09?

PLuto

30th January 2008, 00:54

Can a WRC car(Cuoq for exemple or others privateers) compete in Monte 09?

No. Maybe only in historic category :D

GigiGalliNo1

30th January 2008, 02:09

No. Maybe only in historic category :D

hahhahaha

Tom206wrc

30th January 2008, 09:24

To me it's very good news ;)

Tom206wrc

30th January 2008, 09:26

I doubt that. Now you have only two real contenders in IRC, Peugeot and Fiat. It seems that it will be a Peugeot cup in 2008...

Why René George and VW aren't doing a bigger effort to enter several Polos in IRC ??? :confused:

Mirek

30th January 2008, 11:49

I'm sure they will enter IRC if there is any customer who pays it. They are not a charity...

Karbonyl

30th January 2008, 19:38

I think Rene will lot of work to do this year. They will be present in Belgian championship and in Austria with both of their cars.

Wim_Impreza

30th January 2008, 21:13

Why René George and VW aren't doing a bigger effort to enter several Polos in IRC ??? :confused:

I quote René Georges: "For VW, it is more important to win in South-Africa than to fight for a 6th place in IRC rallies."

He has a lot of work with the Belgian and Austrian national championships and Alberto Hevia will again do the full Spanish championship with the Polo. In Belgium, good old Gaby Goudezeune drives the 'Rallye du Routes du Nord' and probably Ypres. He will do an other rally too, maybe 'Rallye du Hannut or 'Tour du Flandres'. As you can see, René Georges will have more work to do than you thought. ;)

Tom206wrc

30th January 2008, 22:20

I quote René Georges: "For VW, it is more important to win in South-Africa than to fight for a 6th place in IRC rallies."
...

And what would prevent VW to fight in the IRC for the victory, instead of a 6th position ??? :p :

Is the Polo so inferior to the 207s and Grande Puntos for VW not to talk about victory at IRC ??? :s

I'm talking about VW, not René George here... ;)

Mirek

30th January 2008, 22:27

Official VW rally programe is Skoda. VW South Africa is only local and concern doesn't support Polos in Europe.

Wim_Impreza

30th January 2008, 22:40

Indeed Mirek.

@ Tom: you know that the VW hasn't success in IRC 2007 with Tomasz Czopik. Freddy Loix retired in Ypres, but he set good times there. I don't think VW can win an IRC rally, even no podium place. Fiat and Peugeot have more experience and I think their cars are stronger, for sure the factory cars.

Mirek

30th January 2008, 22:52

Anyway it's a pitty since Polo is my favourite S2000. But I don't think that the car itself is that bad. I think that Freddy said Punto is not better and it's engine is weaker than Polo's. The problem is the reliability and possible support and testing which never can be on factory level.

MJW

31st January 2008, 13:53

Organisers are planning to make the most of not being in the WRC in 2009. In addition to the return of the concentration run, the event could be a 6 day rally, run on weekdays, with 3 service parks, and maybe even unrestricted recce. Also the route will be widespread and use a lot of teh mountain roads to try and ensure snow. I detect a real signal to the WRC that the WRC template should be challenged. I also know of a few people already planning to visit Monte 09, just because its different. Imagine if they changed the date to clash with Ireland, that would really raise the stakes!

Mirek

31st January 2008, 13:56

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123464

AndyRAC

31st January 2008, 14:00

Good on them!! The current identikit WRC template is killing the sport, no matter what the 'expert' works teams think. How can you have a WRC without the Monte? Would F1 drop Monaco? You don't drop your crown jewels, yet the WRC does? Certain Rallies should be allowed to run how they want - mainly the classics.

cut the b.s.

31st January 2008, 14:24

Certain Rallies should be allowed to run how they want - mainly the classics.

I've posted to this effect on here before, Monte, Safari, Finland and GB should be given freedom to be 'real' rallys, 5 days/nights, a real test and double points on offer, a kind of masters series within the world championship.

I like the sound of what the Monte organisers are thinking, hope they have the guts to see it through and that it works out well for them

sal

31st January 2008, 15:10

As this is a thread about the Monte and not any one particular team how many entries do you think there will be a for a six day event with a concentration run and unlimited recce time etc? Whilst appealing to the traditionalist in me it has to be said that the Monte has had a relatively poor entry in recent years for various reasons however to deliberatley increase the expense of competing on a notoriously tricky event seems a little odd. After all San Remo is a short sharp affair now and as the IRC has even fewer " works entries" than the WRC at present it's going to take a lot of well heeled drivers like Solowow to make up the slack.

Tom206wrc

31st January 2008, 15:21

I don't know how many entries for 2009 Monte, but hopefully tons of S2000s and not only from Peugeot and Fiat ;)

Tom206wrc

31st January 2008, 15:24

Can someone remove this thread and place it in the IRC section of the forum added in the right thread that deals with Monte-Carlo 2009 ?? :confused:

Mirek

31st January 2008, 15:26

I don't think that the 6 days long model is realistic. I count with something like Sanremo last year just in purpose of having classic stages in course. That six days would be too expensive for privateers that IRC should be friendly to.

DonJippo

31st January 2008, 15:29

Donney

31st January 2008, 16:01

That sounds terrific, let's see if it's true!

Erki

31st January 2008, 17:23

Perhaps if they set the event to take place before the WRC season begins, some WRC teams and/or drivers could still show up, just to get to drive one awesome rally!! (I can dream :) )

31st January 2008, 17:53

I don't know, I would have thought 6 days of Monte would still be cheaper than Safari for example.

I would love to see this happen, a proper rally!

We can expect Abarth, Peugeot and probably Skoda works teams there for 2009 plus the privateers. Probably more S2000s than WRCars on this years Monte anyway.

Mirek

31st January 2008, 17:58

Skoda sure ;) And probably Suzuki as well. They want to make a premiere in the late summer 08.

jso1985

1st February 2008, 00:04

is it just me or IRC is turning into Intercontinental Rejects Challenge? the series looked good in the beggining but now they're only getting any WRC reject, drivers, some teams and now rallyes...

jparker

1st February 2008, 04:34

is it just me or IRC is turning into Intercontinental Rejects Challenge? the series looked good in the beggining but now they're only getting any WRC reject, drivers, some teams and now rallyes...

May I ask what driver/team are you talking about? And why is IRC looking not as good as the beginning? May I remind you that 45 drivers score points during 2007.

Tom206wrc

1st February 2008, 09:46

Same as Jparker I don't understand JSO's point of view :rolleyes:

JAM

1st February 2008, 11:50

Rally Hokkaido

1st February 2008, 12:14

I always tought that teh IRC could be a number 2 WRC, with all the events that want to be on WRC, a kind of access door.
And I believe it will be.
I think you will see other WRC events following Monte's plan in the years they are 'rotated out'.
I know you understand my next point JAM, but maybe other members don't appreciate that WRC organisers have a small group of key personnel working fulltime for them. Without an alternate major rally in the years they don't have
a WRC round they will find it difficult to keep these people and risk losing them and their expertise.

AndyRAC

1st February 2008, 12:38

How long before 1,000 Lakes, Rally GB, Acropolis join the IRC in their 'year out'?
Still think it's a mistake to leave the 'Classic' events out, I wonder what will happen if AMC decide to join the IRC permamently?

kakus

1st February 2008, 13:09

In a French magazine yesterday Sebastien Loeb said that it's possible to see him next year with a C2 for this rally.

Wait and see..

MJW

1st February 2008, 13:12

In a French magazine yesterday Sebastien Loeb said that it's possible to see him next year with a C2 for this rally.

Wait and see.. So now we know who will win next years IRC Monte in a C2!

AndyRAC

1st February 2008, 13:45

So now we know who will win next years IRC Monte in a C2!

That's because of the prestige of the Rally. Same for the Manufacturers, it will always be worth winning the Monte.

Mirek

1st February 2008, 14:47

In a French magazine yesterday Sebastien Loeb said that it's possible to see him next year with a C2 for this rally.

That would be great, which magazin was it?

kakus

1st February 2008, 15:39

]That would be great, which magazin was it?

L'EQUIPE

Or ( In french )
http://www.sebastienloeb.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=305&Itemid=123

- En raison du principe de rotation instauré par la FIA, cette épreuve ne sera pas au calendrier l’an prochain. Qu’en pensez-vous ?
- Déjà, qui dit que je ne le ferai pas l’an prochain ? On verra… Mais c’est en tout cas dommage pour le Championnat du monde, car le Monte-Carlo est une épreuve mythique. En plus, le Tour de Corse et le Rallye d’Allemagne ne sont pas non plus au calendrier 2009. Ce sera donc une année un peu triste pour le public français.

- Vous envisagez donc de faire le Monte-Carlo 2009, qui sera une manche du Championnat IRC ?
- Pourquoi pas ? Je n’en sais rien…

Roy

1st February 2008, 16:41

I don't read something about contest in Monte 2009 and c2. Nothing.

-- Because of the principle of rotation established by the FIA, this test will not be in the calendar next year. What do you think?

-Already, which said that I will not next year? We will see… But it is in any case a pity for the World Championships, as the Monte Carlo is a mythical race. In addition, the Tour of Corsica and the Rally of Germany are not in the calendar 2009. This will be a year a little sad for the public french.

-- Thinking About therefore to the Monte Carlo 2009, which will be a round of the Championship IRC?

-Why not? I do not know…

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sebastienloeb.com%2Fi ndex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id %3D305%26Itemid%3D123%26lang%3Den&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

1st February 2008, 20:39

is it just me or IRC is turning into Intercontinental Rejects Challenge? the series looked good in the beggining but now they're only getting any WRC reject, drivers, some teams and now rallyes...

Take a look at the "who should have a WRC drive thread"

Alen, Basso and Kopecky are all heavily mentioned there and all are in IRC this year. So not rejects, just people who cannot drive in WRC because there are not enough teams.

If Monte Carlo, Safari, San Remo, Peugeot, Fiat, Skoda and the drivers mentioned above are "rejects" of WRC, well, then that's WRCs problem....

A.F.F.

1st February 2008, 21:10

Take a look at the "who should have a WRC drive thread"

Alen, Basso and Kopecky are all heavily mentioned there and all are in IRC this year. So not rejects, just people who cannot drive in WRC because there are not enough teams.

Or drivers who aim to 2009 rule change.

jso1985

2nd February 2008, 00:42

May I ask what driver/team are you talking about? And why is IRC looking not as good as the beginning? May I remind you that 45 drivers score points during 2007.

ok maybe I failed to understand the IRC is development series rather than direct competition to the WRC.

With drivers and teams(Like Kopecky or Kronos), well is not up to the organizers to decide to decide who's in or not, but I just don't like the idea that they're going to start taking rallyes and other things WRC doesn't want, they should try to "build" their own "personality" so the series isn't just seen as WRC division 2

Erki

2nd February 2008, 13:59

ok maybe I failed to understand the IRC is development series rather than direct competition to the WRC.

It should be neither. WC and IRC should be complementary series, supporting each other. We've seen what two competing series can do(I'm talking about Indy Racing League and Champ Car) - nothing good comes out of it.

With drivers and teams(Like Kopecky or Kronos), well is not up to the organizers to decide to decide who's in or not, but I just don't like the idea that they're going to start taking rallyes and other things WRC doesn't want, they should try to "build" their own "personality" so the series isn't just seen as WRC division 2

I have to say I kind of agree with you even. But Monte would still be mega. ;)

Mirek

2nd February 2008, 14:25

jso1985: Just easily... When there is a true legend called Monte Carlo left outside a real competition. You are IRC organizer. Would You left it asleep or would You wake it up and rise?

Killing legends is very stupid and can't help rallysport anyhow. Monte is not a bone WRC left under the table for dogs. It's too valuable and adding it in the IRC is not a mistake of IRC. It is a mistake of WRC.

Tomi

2nd February 2008, 14:46

]jso1985: Killing legends is very stupid and can't help rallysport anyhow. Monte is not a bone WRC left under the table for dogs. It's too valuable and adding it in the IRC is not a mistake of IRC. It is a mistake of WRC.

Not really true, its a misstake from the local rally club who is uncapable to arrange a rally that good so they dont loose money on it.
Monte is one of the lousiest organised event in the calender, under capasity of marchalls every year, almost ever year cancelled stages because of the same reason too.

Mirek

2nd February 2008, 15:34

Just lok at the map of the area of the most legendary stages. There are very few roads which means You could use them as stages but than there are realy serious possibilities of cancelation because of traffic jams in the roads. The second possibility is to close roads from last bigger crossroads (that is in fact closing of all area). And there is third possibility and in novadays probably the only working in keeping classic roads in course - close the roads step by step in more days in order not to collapse all area. But this is not possible in WRC rulles. The same situation is just across the border line in Sanremo area.

Karbonyl

2nd February 2008, 16:23

Not really true, its a misstake from the local rally club who is uncapable to arrange a rally that good so they dont loose money on it.
Monte is one of the lousiest organised event in the calender, under capasity of marchalls every year, almost ever year cancelled stages because of the same reason too.Then I don't understand why the Neste Rally is being dropped out of WRC too... ;)

DonJippo

2nd February 2008, 16:31

Then I don't understand why the Neste Rally is being dropped out of WRC too... ;)

It has not been dropped out of WRC neither is Monte as you for sure know.

Tomi

2nd February 2008, 16:57

Then I don't understand why the Neste Rally is being dropped out of WRC too... ;)

This is new to me, when is Neste dropped from WRC ?

BDunnell

2nd February 2008, 17:30

It should be neither. WC and IRC should be complementary series, supporting each other. We've seen what two competing series can do(I'm talking about Indy Racing League and Champ Car) - nothing good comes out of it.

I don't understand why they should have to support each other, because I don't see the point of having two series. Surely there has to be something wrong with the WRC for the concept of the IRC to have even been devised.

Blitzerflitzer

2nd February 2008, 17:39

Monte Carlo 2009:

http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=6750http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=6750

BDunnell

2nd February 2008, 18:13

Monte Carlo 2009:

http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=6750http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=6750

Thanks for that.

It might not be such a strange idea when you think about it, if the WRC goes down the IRC rules route. Then the 'split' may no longer matter, or even exist.

Tomi

2nd February 2008, 18:21

Well, sebastien has only the french to blame, the initiative to circulate the events came from monte and corsica organisers, and the main reason, limited resourses.

Blitzerflitzer

2nd February 2008, 18:31

limited resourses

For me,that make no sense: paused wrc, because of limited resources and then one week Rally with more stages, cars...

Tomi

2nd February 2008, 18:39

For me,that make no sense: paused wrc, because of limited resources and then one week Rally with more stages, cars...

That was the reason they said anyway, also its maybe good to mention that monte and corsica was the only organiseers that was for the circulation of the current events.

2nd February 2008, 21:11

Monte Carlo and Corsica look like the most likely events to switch to IRC permanently, the French don't seem to get on well with the current WRC administration. IRC will give them the freedom to make the events more characterful and interesting.

Tom206wrc

2nd February 2008, 21:19

L'EQUIPE

Or ( In french )
http://www.sebastienloeb.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=305&Itemid=123

- En raison du principe de rotation instauré par la FIA, cette épreuve ne sera pas au calendrier l’an prochain. Qu’en pensez-vous ?
- Déjà, qui dit que je ne le ferai pas l’an prochain ? On verra… Mais c’est en tout cas dommage pour le Championnat du monde, car le Monte-Carlo est une épreuve mythique. En plus, le Tour de Corse et le Rallye d’Allemagne ne sont pas non plus au calendrier 2009. Ce sera donc une année un peu triste pour le public français.

- Vous envisagez donc de faire le Monte-Carlo 2009, qui sera une manche du Championnat IRC ?
- Pourquoi pas ? Je n’en sais rien…

Interesting... :)

But IF Sébastien Loeb runs 2009 Monte-Carlo that can only be on a Citroën C2 S1600 or R2 Max... :mark:

Why not teammate with Simon Jean-Joseph and run the IRC 2WD championship :D

Mirek

2nd February 2008, 21:27

Tom206wrc: In case of new WRC rulles Citroën would need S2000 car. And I can't see better place for debut than Monte or Corse.

TheFlyingTuga

2nd February 2008, 21:39

BDunnell

3rd February 2008, 01:49

What's crucial to the IRC is TV coverage. Without good coverage, it will fail to have any profile whatsoever.

jparker

3rd February 2008, 02:57

What's crucial to the IRC is TV coverage. Without good coverage, it will fail to have any profile whatsoever.

I don't agree with your comment. Most important for any kind of championship is fears competition, and so far IRC is doing well. Not that TV coverage is not important, but not decisive IMHO.

HaCo

3rd February 2008, 10:16

Well, some time ago, I heard that Citroen have contracted Jean Joseph to develop their S2000 car! In the time, the paper that said that, admits that its possible that Citroen present their brand new C3 in the shape of a S2000 car, like they did with the C2 and C4! I think first seeing of the car will be at Geneve!

Cheers

That would be awesome, and of course a pure speculation, but it would make it logic Loeb running a Citroen in Monte '09... ;)

HaCo

3rd February 2008, 10:19

LOL, this is the new C3 (minispace) in spyshots...
http://www.vroom.be/images/news/6-11883-citroen-minispace-spy-shot.jpg
http://www.vroom.be/nl/spynieuws/5209,citroen-minispace-spy-shot.html

Will this be the all new S2000? :D :D :D

Tom206wrc

3rd February 2008, 10:52

Well, some time ago, I heard that Citroen have contracted Jean Joseph to develop their S2000 car! In the time, the paper that said that, admits that its possible that Citroen present their brand new C3 in the shape of a S2000 car, like they did with the C2 and C4! I think first seeing of the car will be at Geneve!

Cheers

We could know it next week, as PSA is said having planned to present the new cars and concept-cars of both make for Geneva(possibly next thursday) ;)

3rd February 2008, 12:02

Well, sebastien has only the french to blame, the initiative to circulate the events came from monte and corsica organisers, and the main reason, limited resourses.

Maybe they were not talking about the actual event organisation? I believe they have to pay some fees to ISC too, and I heard Rally Deutschland have really been struggling with that too.

Tomi

3rd February 2008, 12:17

Maybe they were not talking about the actual event organisation? I believe they have to pay some fees to ISC too, and I heard Rally Deutschland have really been struggling with that too.

The event organisation is responsible about the marchalls, infrastructur, other facilities and so on, Monte has not met those criterias for years, last year there was some incident at the service in monte, they had to make some fences there this year, because the lack of marchalls.
I have no problem if the French organisers want to arrange the rally every second year or even stop, if they cant make the economy side, but the thing is that i dont understand whats their reason to make good arranged and else the best rallies in the series to rotate.

Erki

3rd February 2008, 14:02

I don't understand why they should have to support each other, because I don't see the point of having two series. Surely there has to be something wrong with the WRC for the concept of the IRC to have even been devised.

The thing is, there are many good and interesting rallies around, but a 30-rally calendar would be far too big. Another meaningful championship would be needed to accommodate those rallies. And makes/teams and to a less extent, drivers too.

I like that in sportscars, there is American Le Mans Series, (European) Le Mans Series, FIA GT, and Japanese LM Challenge(albeit overshadowed by Super GT). I know many people long for a big World Sportscar Championship but I don't. (Sure, I also didn't follow WSC when it was alive and kicking ;) )

I like that this way there would be more good high profile rallies. ;)

And it's also that WRC/IRC/rallying world has to do something differently from F1 to succeed. F1 and rallying are different, what's good for F1 might not be for rallying and vice versa.

Erki

3rd February 2008, 14:03

And I don't like this rotation thing either. Stability is key, IMO.

BDunnell

3rd February 2008, 14:44

The thing is, there are many good and interesting rallies around, but a 30-rally calendar would be far too big. Another meaningful championship would be needed to accommodate those rallies. And makes/teams and to a less extent, drivers too.

I like that in sportscars, there is American Le Mans Series, (European) Le Mans Series, FIA GT, and Japanese LM Challenge(albeit overshadowed by Super GT). I know many people long for a big World Sportscar Championship but I don't. (Sure, I also didn't follow WSC when it was alive and kicking ;) )

I like that this way there would be more good high profile rallies. ;)

And it's also that WRC/IRC/rallying world has to do something differently from F1 to succeed. F1 and rallying are different, what's good for F1 might not be for rallying and vice versa.

I certainly don't agree with you on the sportscar point. Yes, there are many series, but none of them have any profile at all, and sportscar racing was at its best when there was one world championship.

Of course 30 rallies would be too many, but two championships is too many. If the WRC decides to adopt the same rules as the IRC, there should be no need for two. Fragmentation, as in US open-wheel racing, is never good.

BDunnell

3rd February 2008, 14:45

And I don't like this rotation thing either. Stability is key, IMO.

I do agree with that, though.

Mirek

3rd February 2008, 15:00

BDunnell: IRC is commercial project without official FIA championship status so take it easy. It is just up to its organiser if it does well or dies in the future.

BDunnell

3rd February 2008, 15:01

]BDunnell: IRC is commercial project without official FIA championship status so take it easy. It is just up to its organiser if it does well or dies in the future.

Not necessarily. Its potential for success or failure is surely inextricably linked with the fortunes of the WRC.