Autoextremist weighs in on the IRL...

[SoCalPVguy]

A 'what do you think' thread should be interesting...

But forgetting NASCAR (and Grand-Am) for the moment, let's focus on the rest of the major league racing series here in the U.S. The IRL obviously exists solely because of the Indianapolis 500. Still the greatest single motor race in the world, the "500" is clinging to its handle as "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing" while the IRL tries to keep the rest of its series viable and healthy, to decidedly mixed results, I might add. I applaud the addition of more road racing events to their season, but too many of the other races on the schedule are forgettable and tedious. If Roger Penske, Chip Ganassi, Michael Andretti and Bobby Rahal ever lose interest in the whole drill called "the month of May," the Indianapolis 500 would be in serious jeopardy. Right now, I believe it's only by the sheer force of will displayed by Tony George and Roger Penske that the Indianapolis 500 is still viable at all, because the Speedway certainly moved away from its raison d'etre long ago, when it regularly pioneered advanced new technologies that directly filtered down to our future passenger cars. And no, running on pure ethanol doesn't count.

For racing enthusiasts who have been to Indy, they "get" what the Indianapolis 500 is all about and truly appreciate the history that just drips off of the Speedway whenever they're there. But how much longer will this fan interest last without a unifying story line, either from the "proving new technologies" angle, or from seeing the "best of the best" drivers competing for the Borg-Warner trophy, or preferably both? The Speedway keeps talking about a "new" engine/chassis rules package, but all indications suggest that it will be an evolutionary one rather than a revolutionary one. And that's not nearly good enough. The Speedway needs to return to its rightful place as the home for pioneering automotive engineering by developing innovations such as alternative propulsion and advanced power applications, because without that hook even the vaunted Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the Indianapolis 500 will succumb to the growing ennui surrounding racing in the U.S.

[mark123]

i'm no expert on the history of the race or the series, but i would suggest that the current spec series is or has the potential to produce much closer races. The problem is the depth of driving talant. If the IRL and in particular the I500 truely had the best teams and drivers, then the race and series would be a rip snorter - but the truth of the matter is that they have 3 great teams - then day light - then the rest of the field.

Now imagine if you took the top couple of teams from CC and a couple of Nascar teams running indy car programs - all well funded with talanted drivers that are picked on results, not funding - there you would have a great show.

Leave the technical stuff to F1 - american OW racing will never hope to compete with F1 on budget (could Chip or Roger cop a 100 million dollar fine and survive?). F1 is boring - do you really want to go down that road?

I think that indy car is building up some momentium, but the drain of talant to nascar is a real problem which is caused by the split on OW racing, resulting in a lack of commercial partners, resulting in less money for the teams and therefore drivers.

I suspect that none of these drivers actually want to run Nascar - its all about the money

[ZzZzZz]

Times change. I don't think Indy can, or should, be a primary source of automative innovation. (Leave that to Le Mans.)

But the other point is spot on. To be the undisputed Greatest Spectacle in Racing, you need top drivers from other series competing. Drop the insecurity. A lot of NASCAR and Champ Car drivers want to come. Getting them is very achievable (and has been discussed).

Do this and IRL drivers will win most of the time. They and the series will gain a greater respect, holding their own against the rest of the best. Ratings and ticket demand for Indy and the IRL will both rise dramatically. There is no downside.

[mark123]

ZZZZs - i agree 100%

[mark123]

I've just given this a bit more thought. Maybe they should move the race to the following day ( i think its a holiday ??). would people still turn up on the Monday?

I know it breaks with tradition - but it would mean that any Nascar drivers would be available to race on the day after the coca cola 600.

Imagine all the ex open wheel stars truning up for the race on the Monday,
which will also increase the TV ratings.

They may need to schedule bump day to not clash with any Nascar event also, and roll out the red carpet. Perhaps they could add a financial incentive to the bog teams to put an extra car on the grid for a Nascar driver that they may have on the pay role?

I don't know if these are good ideas - its just a bit of brain storming. But, anything that fills the grid with geniune super stars (and makes the likes of Milka Duno work for her place on the grid) has to be good for the race and therefore the series.

[Osella]

[quote="ZzZzZz"]Drop the insecurity. QUOTE]

Who, Tony George or the fans...? Because I think you might even have more luck with the first one than convincing most people that radical change is needed.
I like Mark's idea of moving the race, as an idea..but can you really move the Indy 500!?! Long term, however, it may just be the only way for the race to survive as an event that really means something :up: After all, Le Mans has no fixed date and it's been around a while ;)

[beachgirl]

IIRC, the Indianapolis 500 was always run on Memorial Day (May 30), regardless of the day of the week, prior to 1971. Then, the government determined that most major holidays should be long weekends, and Memorial Day became the last Monday of May. In 1971 and 1972, the Indianapolis 500 ran on Saturday, and in 1973 it was supposed to run on Monday (due to weather it eventually ran the following Wednesday). In 1974, it started running on the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend. So, really, the Indianapolis 500 has been run on every day of the week in its long history.

So, yes, you really can move the Indy 500. And the sky won't fall.

[Alexamateo]

IIRC, the Indianapolis 500 was always run on Memorial Day (May 30), regardless of the day of the week, prior to 1971. Then, the government determined that most major holidays should be long weekends, and Memorial Day became the last Monday of May. In 1971 and 1972, the Indianapolis 500 ran on Saturday, and in 1973 it was supposed to run on Monday (due to weather it eventually ran the following Wednesday). In 1974, it started running on the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend. So, really, the Indianapolis 500 has been run on every day of the week in its long history.

So, yes, you really can move the Indy 500. And the sky won't fall.

I posted something similar in the CC thread, and I believe beachgirl has it correct on the dates and days, so I'll chime in that I agree, I think a Saturday race would be fine and it would give the race 2 potential rain dates (Sunday and the Monday Holiday.)

[mark123]

I Would Go Monday, As A Rain Delay Could Cause Issues For The Nascar Drivers Who Race Sunday.

[MAX_THRUST]

ZzzZzzZzz is right, contracts decide who races where these days, things wil never be as flexible as when Mario Andretti raced. Agreed top drivers from other series would make the 500 a bigger spectacle than it currently is, but pandering to the NASCAR communtiy is not the way to go.

Sadly the race clashes with the Coco cola 600 and the Monaco gp, so your not gonna get GP2 or F1 guys going. You may get Robbie Gordon racing in both races?

I honestly think the 500 should stick to its guns, open up the chasis department to allow types of cars to race, but then this causes disparrity between chsis and the racing is there for biased to the chasis that goes faster for longer.

I think the world has chnaged to much for it to return to the good old glory days. If the IRL can get Jaques Vill, Dario, Sam Hornish, and any well know NASCAR driver they have done agood job. You never know Paul Tracey might be there this year, in a vision racing car.........

[millencolin]

You never know Paul Tracey might be there this year, in a vision racing car.........

Yeah... and North Korea will embrace western-style culture.... :p :

[Jimmy Magnusson]

I'll have to disagree with the article though... The greatest single motor race in the world? Hardly. Le Mans wins that by a mile.

[nanders]

but then this causes disparrity between chsis and the racing is there for biased to the chasis that goes faster for longer.

I think the world has chnaged to much for it to return to the good old glory days.

Actually I think they should open it up for chassis development again. This thing is only a 6 to 10 horse race anyway and those would be the teams that could tweak chassis anyway. Wouldn't it be cool to see some different shapes show up?

Innovation is where the roots of Indy is at. Even if they had to show up with the same engine but different cars, the publicity build up might add to the excitement. Remember when Mercedes came with the pushrod? They had a month worth of pub out of that and it really wasn't that much of a difference. That's the last time something technically really happened.

But IMO Indy will struggle unless they do something radical technically, like go to Hydrogen fuel cell cars or something new where engineers and teams can compete like it means something.

[Jag_Warrior]

But IMO Indy will struggle unless they do something radical technically, like go to Hydrogen fuel cell cars or something new where engineers and teams can compete like it means something.

DeLorenzo has been pushing the idea of a Hydrogen 500 for a year or so. The first one is planned to take place in 2009. IMS is to be the site. Major makers, including Honda, Toyota, GM and Nissan are said to be interested. Bridgestone is said to be involved.

We'll see.

[F1boat]

I'll have to disagree with the article though... The greatest single motor race in the world? Hardly. Le Mans wins that by a mile.

I don't think that Le Mans is greater than Indy 500. IMO only Monaco GP rivals Indy.

[Mark]

I'll have to disagree with the article though... The greatest single motor race in the world? Hardly. Le Mans wins that by a mile.

I was just about to post that! Greatest and greatest spectacle too. Indy500 is good but doesn't come close to Le Mans.

[Lee Roy]

I was just about to post that! Greatest and greatest spectacle too. Indy500 is good but doesn't come close to Le Mans.

Have to agree. The Indy 500 may have once been a rival to Le Mans, but that ended in 1996. You can't compare a race like Le Mans where the prestige of winning attracts so many manufacturers to a race where everyone drives the same "off-the-shelf" car and the same dumbed-down "crate motor".