Team Leader in an Equal Team?

How come that Mclaren, the team that trumpets 'equality', can now be claiming that Hamilton will be the Team Leader?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64295

How do you lead when your all equal?

[SGWilko]

How come that Mclaren, the team that trumpets 'equality', can now be claiming that Hamilton will be the Team Leader?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64295

How do you lead when your all equal?

Because he is deemed the better driver over who they have in mind as his team mate. They will still get equal equipment and treatment....

[passmeatissue]

Because he is deemed the better driver over who they have in mind as his team mate. They will still get equal equipment and treatment....

Exactly. They don't mean all drivers are equal, they mean the opportunity will be equal. The cars are the same and if the other driver can beat Hammy he'll be allowed to, at least until/unless he's behind and Hammy needs the points later in the season.

[SGWilko]

Exactly. They don't mean all drivers are equal, they mean the opportunity will be equal. The cars are the same and if the other driver can beat Hammy he'll be allowed to, at least until/unless he's behind and Hammy needs the points later in the season.

No-one envisaged Lewis being as competetive as he was in his first season, certainly not McLaren and especially not Nando. But, as that is their policy, and true to form, McLaren stood by the equal car and opportunity policy.

Clearly, with the drivers being so evenly matched and competetive, it caused issues.

Lewis dealt with it in his own way (even playing mind games on the track with Nando), and Nando, well, he just lost the plot, threw everything out of his Maclaren (buggy, not car hence the spelling), then, when that did not appease him he tried blackmail.

All that did was to shoot himself in the foot.

Now, who else that is available for the 2nd McLaren seat is as fast as FA was/is? Not many candidates are there?

So, given that Lewis is improving, it is fair to summise that he is a natural to fulfill the Team Leader role.

Nothing sinister, just fact.

I see. So equality only goes so far. The very policy Ferrari once had, then.

I am reminded of George Orwell's Animal Farm....."All Pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others"

[SGWilko]

I see. So equality only goes so far. The very policy Ferrari once had, then.

I am reminded of George Orwell's Animal Farm....."All Pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others"

I saw that film, nasty! ;)

[passmeatissue]

I see. So equality only goes so far. The very policy Ferrari once had, then.

I am reminded of George Orwell's Animal Farm....."All Pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others"

Whitmarsh was just saying that they're not having to look for a lead driver. If Nico joins and is faster, for example, he'll be allowed to win the wdc.

If the rumours are true that they're still after Nico and offering $20m to Frank for him, then we can be sure Keke isn't going to settle for anything less.

[SGWilko]

Whitmarsh was just saying that they're not having to look for a lead driver. If Nico joins and is faster, for example, he'll be allowed to win the wdc.

If the rumours are true that they're still after Nico and offering $20m to Frank for him, then we can be sure Keke isn't going to settle for anything less.

If I were Frank, I'd insist on $40m. To let Nico go would, IMVHO be suicide for Williams.

[markabilly]

No-one envisaged Lewis being as competetive as he was in his first season, certainly not McLaren and especially not Nando. But, as that is their policy, and true to form, McLaren stood by the equal car and opportunity policy.


Lewis dealt with it in his own way (even playing mind games on the track with Nando), and Nando, well, he just lost the plot, threw everything out of his Maclaren (buggy, not car hence the spelling), then, when that did not appease him he tried blackmail.

All that did was to shoot himself in the foot.


Nothing sinister, just fact.

Glad to see your Kool aid glass is now full empty :D

Need I remind everyone again, that the number of points between the two at the end of the 2007 wdc was zero; and that Hamilton was the one whose conduct resulted in two FIA investigations AGAINST his team and team mate, one of which cost his team mate 5 grid positions.....and that does not count the 100million fine that was imposed when FA blew up with RD and RD called Max out of fear......

FA (or his daddy) was not the one officially requesting investigations....

But merit and talent have nothing to do with it


Simple fact is that Hamilton is a big name high publicity guy who babbles on the press, writes his own autobio after one year in F1 as though he had been there ten and won ten WDC titles.........He is one who can increase the overall revenue of F1 and Mac, so the focus as it became last year, will be to get that WDC for him, so when he "floats" those eurodollars will just coming rolling in by the billions, and make RD, the team of "intergrity" more popular than ever.....and bernie's pockets more loaded than ever.....

but let us escape reality and return to the Twilight Zone of F1

[passmeatissue]

If I were Frank, I'd insist on $40m. To let Nico go would, IMVHO be suicide for Williams.

The full theory then goes, with those $$$, FA to Williams :eek:

Then, presumably, Toyota give up the unequal struggle and just support Williams as engine supplier.

[SGWilko]

Need I remind everyone again, that the number of points between the two at the end of the 2007 wdc was zero; and that Hamilton was the one whose conduct resulted in two FIA investigations AGAINST his team and team mate, one of which cost his team mate 5 grid positions.....and that does not count the 100million fine that was imposed when FA blew up with RD and RD called Max out of fear......

FA (or his daddy) was not the one officially requesting investigations....



Well, McLaren seem to see it differently to you. Seeing as they are the ones footing the $100m bill, do you find that surprising? Perhaps your version may not be the factually correct one. Who knows?

As for the glass. If the glass starts empty, and is filled half way, if is half full. If it starts full, and is drained to half way, it is half empty.

"tomato, tomato, potato, potato, lets call the whole thing off......" ;)

[SGWilko]

The full theory then goes, with those $$$, FA to Williams :eek:

Then, presumably, Toyota give up the unequal struggle and just support Williams as engine supplier.

I see your plans for world domination are taking shape......

Mwah ha ha ha ha ha! ;)

That has a lot of potential you know that scenario. But honestly, would Patrick and 'Eyebrow man'* get on, I think not.

* Don't blame me, blame Clarkson! :D

[markabilly]

Well, McLaren seem to see it differently to you. Seeing as they are the ones footing the $100m bill, do you find that surprising? Perhaps your version may not be the factually correct one. Who knows?

As for the glass. If the glass starts empty, and is filled half way, if is half full. If it starts full, and is drained to half way, it is half empty.

"tomato, tomato, potato, potato, lets call the whole thing off......" ;)
Surprizing? No
let me put it this way:
put all the current f1 drivers, with all their fan appeal, merchandise and value to f1 in terms of generating revenue and interest--except for one driver, Hamilton

Put Hamilton all by himself.

Compare the two: Hamilton versus the total of all the rest as to who is worth more (and I do not mean subjective evaluation of driver talent to go fastest and so forth, but in terms of generating revenue and cold cash, as in cold hard accounting facts)

Answer is clear:
Hamilton "floats", the rest do not

The only way that "balance" might shift, is if you toss MS into the pile of other drivers

of course if FA were to return to mac and MS to ferrari, that would be Bernie's dream come true for revenue....or if MS were to return to mac.....but bernie is entitled to dream....

Bottom line (as they say in accounting and the movie Unforgiven) "Deserving got nothing to do with it...."

[wedge]

How come that Mclaren, the team that trumpets 'equality', can now be claiming that Hamilton will be the Team Leader?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64295

How do you lead when your all equal?

A definition of a leader is 'first among equals'.

One of the fundamentals of motor sport is to beat your team mate on a regular basis.

However there is never a true equality in F1 because there are priorities to who gets the better race strategy, a brand new component, who gets the spare car, lead the pack in qualy 3 and so forth.

What team managers can do - as in the case of Ron Dennis - is try to run your team with as much equality possible eg. Ron claimed that it was Alonso's turn to lead the pack in Q3/Hungary this year. And yet there are those who argue that you run a team as efficiently as possible by putting all your eggs in basket ie. favouring 1 driver.

IMO, the former works best when you have a dominant team eg. McLaren/1988. The latter model works best when you have multiple teams challenging for WDC.

[SGWilko]

However there is never a true equality in F1 because there are priorities to who gets the better race strategy, lead the pack in qualy 3 and so forth.



And what you describe there is an artificial form of racing introduced by the incompetent 'powers that be' in a vain attempt to spice up the racing. And this leads to the inevitable woes that McLaren bore with two drivers of equal ability trying to outwit, outsmart, outpsyche and outrace each other......

[ioan]

I see. So equality only goes so far. The very policy Ferrari once had, then.

I am reminded of George Orwell's Animal Farm....."All Pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others"

Very good analogy! :up: ;)

[passmeatissue]

Very good analogy! :up: ;)

First time I've seen Ron accused of being a communist :rotflmao:

First time I've seen Ron accused of being a communist :rotflmao:

Oh, I don't know.....

Ronspeak sounds like something from the novel 1984 & Big Brother seem quite appropriate.

[passmeatissue]

Oh, I don't know.....

Ronspeak sounds like something from the novel 1984 & Big Brother seem quite appropriate.

Ah well, that's totalitarianism. Good call though. Ron might even own up to that! But not many democracies in the pitlane :)

[Osella]

Surprizing? No
let me put it this way:
put all the current f1 drivers, with all their fan appeal, merchandise and value to f1 in terms of generating revenue and interest--except for one driver, Hamilton

Bottom line (as they say in accounting and the movie Unforgiven) "Deserving got nothing to do with it...."

Oh I hope so! I would love to see Hamilton/McLaren become the Dale Earnhardt Jr of F1... Popular, wins sometimes, but really no hope of succeeding the legends they have both been held up at replacements for...

[Big Ben]

Exactly. They don't mean all drivers are equal, they mean the opportunity will be equal. The cars are the same and if the other driver can beat Hammy he'll be allowed to, at least until/unless he's behind and Hammy needs the points later in the season.

Hilarious. It's not a lie if you believe it, right?

[Big Ben]

No-one envisaged Lewis being as competetive as he was in his first season, certainly not McLaren and especially not Nando. But, as that is their policy, and true to form, McLaren stood by the equal car and opportunity policy.

Clearly, with the drivers being so evenly matched and competetive, it caused issues.

Lewis dealt with it in his own way (even playing mind games on the track with Nando), and Nando, well, he just lost the plot, threw everything out of his Maclaren (buggy, not car hence the spelling), then, when that did not appease him he tried blackmail.

All that did was to shoot himself in the foot.

Now, who else that is available for the 2nd McLaren seat is as fast as FA was/is? Not many candidates are there?

So, given that Lewis is improving, it is fair to summise that he is a natural to fulfill the Team Leader role.

Nothing sinister, just fact.

Great propaganda. By mind games do you mean not respecting the internal rules about the extra-lap in q3?

[SGWilko]

Great propaganda. By mind games do you mean not respecting the internal rules about the extra-lap in q3?

I mean mind games, out psyching your team mate. Some of the panic like 'must get past Lewis' starts of Nando were clearly Lewis getter the better of him.

But that is also a good example. Thanks, I'd forgotten about that..... :rolleyes:

[SGWilko]

Hilarious. It's not a lie if you believe it, right?

Dunno? waddayathink.....

Answers on a postcard to eu..........?

[Big Ben]

I mean mind games, out psyching your team mate. Some of the panic like 'must get past Lewis' starts of Nando were clearly Lewis getter the better of him.

But that is also a good example. Thanks, I'd forgotten about that..... :rolleyes:

I'd forgotten about this... He did say that he made FM make a mistake :laugh: .. this guy is really "special"... soon enough he´ll make car explode with the power of his mind.

Thanks God Nando out psyched him when it was really important. or maybe he out psyched himself

[SGWilko]

I'd forgotten about this... He did say that he made FM make a mistake :laugh: .. this guy is really "special"... soon enough he´ll make car explode with the power of his mind.

Thanks God Nando out psyched him when it was really important. or maybe he out psyched himself

That's the benefit of experience......

And remember Ayrton had 'out of body/car' experiences. Now that was special.

[markabilly]

I mean mind games, out psyching your team mate. Some of the panic like 'must get past Lewis' starts of Nando were clearly Lewis getter the better of him.

But that is also a good example. Thanks, I'd forgotten about that..... :rolleyes:



And do not forget the mind game where he out-psyched Fernando so bad, that by the time it was over, freddie lost five grid places, and mac lost a wcc plus a $100 million.....

[passmeatissue]

Hilarious. It's not a lie if you believe it, right?

It's the way McLaren run their cars. Ron may have an emotional favourite but the cars are the same and so is the strategy. DC, Montoya have never said anything different. Hammy disobeyed the rules on equality - as you say.

[ioan]

First time I've seen Ron accused of being a communist :rotflmao:

It wasn't meant on such a subtle political level. :rolleyes:

I was talking about the analogy team <-> pig farm! :p : :D