IRC = ladystuff or what ?

[Tomi]

Alen is Abarth S2000

Is this sure?

[Tomi]

Yes, but more probably IRC than PWRC

pity that a good driver gets involved in such ladystuff, better would be to drive the WRC stages.

[COD]

pity that a good driver gets involved in such ladystuff, better would be to drive the WRC stages.


For a young driver like him, all experience from different conditions is valuable. And rather do IRC with Abarth paying the bills, than use all your dad's money to do PWRC

[Tomi]

For a young driver like him, all experience from different conditions is valuable. And rather do IRC with Abarth paying the bills, than use all your dad's money to do PWRC

yes true, but unforunatly the rallies a run on wrong stages, with the current recce rule every pass in valuable.

[A.F.F.]

pity that a good driver gets involved in such ladystuff, better would be to drive the WRC stages.

Have you watched IRC rallies Tomi ? ;)

[Tomi]

Have you watched IRC rallies Tomi ? ;)

no.

[A.F.F.]

no.


Figures ;)

I haven't tasted haggis but I hate it :D

[Tomi]

Figures ;)

I haven't tasted haggis but I hate it :D

Why, every guy in skirt eat it, ask Jamie.

[DonJippo]

Figures

Figures what? If you aim to WRC it would be better to get the experience from rallies that are part of WRC rather than IRC, don't you think so?

[A.F.F.]

Figures what? If you aim to WRC it would be better to get the experience from rallies that are part of WRC rather than IRC, don't you think so?

No I don't. When these guys are ready for WRC, who knows what rallies there are, might as well be those they drove in IRC.

Or do I really have to start bending the barbwire ?

[DonJippo]

No I don't. When these guys are ready for WRC, who knows what rallies there are, might as well be those they drove in IRC.

Naah only one maybe two are events that have chances to be in WRC calendar and that won't take you far...in a 24 events rotation calendar.

Capice or do you want me to hand you the barbwire so that you can play with it?

[PLuto]

Naah only one maybe two are events that have chances to be in WRC calendar and that won't take you far...in a 24 events rotation calendar.

Capice or do you want me to hand you the barbwire so that you can play with it?

You dont know, how far is your answer from reality. You will see in next years...

[Tomi]

You dont know, how far is your answer from reality. You will see in next years...

How do I get somekind of deja vue feeling, was this not the same some guys said about the great ERC a few years back too.

[DonJippo]

You dont know, how far is your answer from reality. You will see in next years...

Kindly define what you mean by "next years"? WRC calendar for next two years is pretty much set and I don't see any former IRC events in there?

Of course anything can happen but the only two events from the current IRC calendar that have a possibility to be in WRC are Russia and China, and even with those earliest 2010.

[A.F.F.]

Capice or do you want me to hand you the barbwire so that you can play with it?

Please do. The whole point was that someone can call IRC ladiesstuff without having watched it ;)

[Tomi]

Please do. The whole point was that someone can call IRC ladiesstuff without having watched it ;)

it is ladystuff, someone call s2000 spectacular because of the sound of the car too.

[jparker]

Figures what? If you aim to WRC it would be better to get the experience from rallies that are part of WRC rather than IRC, don't you think so?
I disagree. As noted already, future champs should be equally dominant on both, gravel and asphalt. Currently PWRC is mostly gravel, therefore IRC is the best Alen can get in terms of asphalt experience. I must say, few guys in IRC are even better then Loeb on asphalt, and Alen wasn't far behind them. I see great future for Alen in IRC and then in WRC.

[pantealex]

PWRC is all gravel (+1snow event) 2008
IRC is good for tarmac training
Abarth make desicions what they will drive, not A.Alen him self.

[pino]

pity that a good driver gets involved in such ladystuff, better would be to drive the WRC stages.

I suggest that both You and Don Jippo go and watch a single event before you criticize this Serie so much...

[DonJippo]

I suggest that both You and Don Jippo go and watch a single event before you criticize this Serie so much...

By any chance are you referring with this to the fact that you were in San Remo this year? Knowing a bit of your backround I would say that this event has a special place in your heart and therefore it would be great event for you being it part of any series, WRC, IRC, ERC etc etc. I am wondering if you would have the same feeling if you went to see IRC for example in China were the entrylist was not really great, was there any of the IRC contenders in China?

Surely there are good elements in IRC but being a serious series don't you think there should be at least competitors in each event...could you imaging a season ending Wales Rally GB being run without any WRC contenders?

[pino]

By any chance are you referring with this to the fact that you were in San Remo this year? Knowing a bit of your backround I would say that this event has a special place in your heart and therefore it would be great event for you being it part of any series, WRC, IRC, ERC etc etc. I am wondering if you would have the same feeling if you went to see IRC for example in China were the entrylist was not really great, was there any of the IRC contenders in China?

Surely there are good elements in IRC but being a serious series don't you think there should be at least competitors in each event...could you imaging a season ending Wales Rally GB being run without any WRC contenders?

Yes Sanremo has a special place in my heart so what ? :p : However both you and Tomi have unfairly criticized the IRC serie from the very start of it. It's a new serie with few Manufactories but with great events in the Calender, and next year will have more Team and drivers involved...why not given a chance ? In China the entry-list was poor because the Champ was decided already, it has happened to WRC too ;) Also NZ never have a great entry list eventhough it's a fantastic event...

[pino]

btw ask the Guy who was with me how spectaculary were those cars on wet surface ;)

[Daniel]

btw ask the Guy who was with me how spectaculary were those cars on wet surface ;)
But that's the cars and stages and not the series that makes it spectacular.

I go to Finland because of the WRCars, makkara (I still owe you a pack of those horrid blue cheese ones don't I DJ?) and Gr F cars. Would I go if it was just an IRC round? Probably not because the calibre of drivers isn't as high and the machinery isn't as fast :)

San Remo has always been good in the wet especially when there are lots of leaves on the road ;)

[Tomi]

However both you and Tomi have unfairly criticized the IRC serie from the very start of it. It's a new serie with few Manufactories but with great events in the Calender, and next year will have more Team and drivers involved...why not given a chance ?

For me its the same if there is a IRC or not, Its just not the right place for drivers who aim to the top in rally, but its a good serie for guys who has failed in WRC or has no aim to drive on the top of the sport.
Also the events that are in IRC was before the IRC and will be after IRC, so the series brings nothing new really.

[dumb]

Big offtopic.
Maybe we should back to thread theme? :)

So anybodie knows if Martin Rauam will run on PWRC 2008?

[Wim_Impreza]

it is ladystuff, someone call s2000 spectacular because of the sound of the car too.

For me, S2000's are by far the most boring cars that I have ever seen.

[dimviii]

agree with Wim Impreza...spectacular a car is not from the sound, but from torque as it exits a corner
:p

[jparker]

agree with Wim Impreza...spectacular a car is not from the sound, but from torque as it exits a corner
:p

Sure it is. Problem is there are only 2 of them :) Enjoy it. That I call boring.
My idea of rallying is competition.

[dumb]

agree with Wim Impreza...spectacular a car is not from the sound, but from torque as it exits a corner
:p

Yes.Exactly.Me the same.I hate when S2000 stops when they are going out of hairpins or some more tightens corner.

[pino]

Let's continue this in the proper forum...

[RS]

Don't worry guys, the Finns will start to like IRC when Alen wins next years championship ;)

[Tom206wrc]

For me, S2000's are by far the most boring cars that I have ever seen.


It's not the feeling I have when I watch them in video ;)


Like every cars, if they have a slow driver they won't be spectacular :mark: but with an excellent driver they will :p :

[HaCo]

I just don't get it. IRC and S2000 has attracted new and old constructors to rallying. Driven by the right person, these cars are just amazing to watch. It's been a long time I had the 'chicken skin'-feeling in Belgian rallying and it is very simple why: a decent driver putting the VW Polo to its limits. If you tell me this is boring than you don't like rallying. Next to the VW there were some WRC's with bad drivers behind the wheel not even half as spectacular as the Polo on its limits, now that is what I call boring.

Rallycars are boring if not driven by the best (best is not supposed to be future world rally championship driver, best at local championships is best too) drivers fighting for the last seconds. It's the battle that makes rallying spectacular, not the cruising. This counts for for N1, N2, ... R2, R3, S1600, S2000 and WRC and that is what the sport is all about: competition on closed roads!

If you don't like S2000 or IRC, don't bother it: go watch the so exciting WRC!

[PLuto]

I just don't get it. IRC and S2000 has attracted new and old constructors to rallying. Driven by the right person, these cars are just amazing to watch. It's been a long time I had the 'chicken skin'-feeling in Belgian rallying and it is very simple why: a decent driver putting the VW Polo to its limits. If you tell me this is boring than you don't like rallying. Next to the VW there were some WRC's with bad drivers behind the wheel not even half as spectacular as the Polo on its limits, now that is what I call boring.

Rallycars are boring if not driven by the best (best is not supposed to be future world rally championship driver, best at local championships is best too) drivers fighting for the last seconds. It's the battle that makes rallying spectacular, not the cruising. This counts for for N1, N2, ... R2, R3, S1600, S2000 and WRC and that is what the sport is all about: competition on closed roads!

If you don't like S2000 or IRC, don't bother it: go watch the so exciting WRC!

I must say, that I am wisiting WRC events for many years and I must say, it is worse and worse. Good drivers are leaving and "bad but rich" drivers are there. But huger problem are cars. There is lot of electronics, it isn't good to spectate. I must say, I will rather go to IRC, ERC or national event than WRC...

[A.F.F.]

I just don't get it. IRC and S2000 has attracted new and old constructors to rallying. Driven by the right person, these cars are just amazing to watch. It's been a long time I had the 'chicken skin'-feeling in Belgian rallying and it is very simple why: a decent driver putting the VW Polo to its limits. If you tell me this is boring than you don't like rallying. Next to the VW there were some WRC's with bad drivers behind the wheel not even half as spectacular as the Polo on its limits, now that is what I call boring.

Rallycars are boring if not driven by the best (best is not supposed to be future world rally championship driver, best at local championships is best too) drivers fighting for the last seconds. It's the battle that makes rallying spectacular, not the cruising. This counts for for N1, N2, ... R2, R3, S1600, S2000 and WRC and that is what the sport is all about: competition on closed roads!

If you don't like S2000 or IRC, don't bother it: go watch the so exciting WRC!


I salute you HaCo :up:

It's not the torque which stops the cars at hairpins, it's how they are driven. I've also seen amazing footage, rallyes from Belgia, Italy, Poland national level where Polos, Puntos and 207s have been driven like hell. And these guys were unfamiliar to me before.

Now I not only know S2000 is amazing class but there are brilliant drivers in national series out from Finnish borderline too :up:

[RS]

Sure, on a dry road going uphill maybe the S2000 don't slide much round the hairpins, but honestly, the WRCars don't do much sliding these days either, even without active diffs.

When the road is wet however, or going downhill when the torque doesn't matter so much these S2000s look much better.

If we are talking IRC vs PWRC, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw there is no asphalt in the 2008 pWRC calendar! If you look at the 2007 pWRC standings I really don't think you can say it is a more competitive environment. In fact if you are looking for a competitive environment in which to learn driving on all surfaces, pWRC is a total waste of time and money.

[Tomi]

[quote="PLuto"]

This is a good one :) , can you name 1 good driver who could have stayed, that has left WRC because the concept is bad.

[pino]

This is a good one :) , can you name 1 good driver who could have stayed, that has left WRC because the concept is bad.

Yes, Gigi :p :

[RS]

This is a good one :) , can you name 1 good driver who could have stayed, that has left WRC because the concept is bad.

That's not what Pluto said though, just stating the facts as they are.

[Tomi]

Yes, Gigi :p :

What did Gigi actually say about other than WRC cars, do you remember?

[Tomi]

That's not what Pluto said though, just stating the facts as they are.

This is what he said, "Good drivers are leaving and "bad but rich" drivers are there."

[RS]

This is what he said, "Good drivers are leaving and "bad but rich" drivers are there."

It's true. Sure they didn't chose to leave, but they have gone not through their own choice.

[Rani]

I must say, few guys in IRC are even better then Loeb on asphalt
Could you name one?

[PLuto]

I would like to know, what will be more interesting for drivers - to start "only" in IRC with S2000 cars, perfect TV coverage and good competition on events like Rallye Monte Carlo, Sanremo or Tour de Corse or start in World Rally Championship with WRC cars against drivers like Perez Companc, Wilson or Rautenbach with bad TV coverage on events like Rally Bulgaria, Rally Cyprus, Rally Indonesia, Rajd Polski...

[pino]

I must say, few guys in IRC are even better then Loeb on asphalt...

I only know Basso and Panizzi who maybe in the same level as Loeb...maybe ;)

[jparker]

Could you name one?

Rossetti, Basso, Vouilloz, Scandola, Andreucci, Ojeda, they all outperform Panizzi early this year during San Remo. I hope that you remember that Panizzi is may be the only one to successfully challenge Loeb on asphalt.

[J4MIE]

Rossetti, Basso, Vouilloz, Scandola, Andreucci, Ojeda, they all outperform Panizzi early this year during San Remo. I hope that you remember that Panizzi is may be the only one to successfully challenge Loeb on asphalt.

To be fair I think when Panizzi was beating Loeb was when Gilles was at the peak of his career, and of course like us all is starting to get older now, and also when Seb was bringing Citroen and himself into the WRC.

I think Loeb is untouchable at the moment, even Marcus on form for the past two years in a good car struggled against him.

But hey, I guess this is why IRC isn't the WRC, right? ;)

[Tomi]

It will be interesting to follow what Rautenbach will do in WRC, he is sitting in top car and after all he is a IRC round winner.

[pino]

Rossetti, Basso, Vouilloz, Scandola, Andreucci, Ojeda, they all outperform Panizzi early this year during San Remo. I hope that you remember that Panizzi is may be the only one to successfully challenge Loeb on asphalt.

Panizzi had problems with his car and made a wrong tyres choice in the first day, that's why he was beaten by these Guys. In the 2nd day the gap from the leaders was so big that the Team asked him to test some new solutions/parts for the future. On equal car and conditions only Basso and Andreucci may beat him on tarmac.

[jparker]

But hey, I guess this is why IRC isn't the WRC, right? ;)

Why not? Duval was so close to Loeb in Germany with less competitive car. How do you explain that? The fact that WRC is unreachable for many other drivers, doesn't mean they are not better. To be honest, WRC is not "talent discovering competition". It's hardly any competition at all.

[jparker]

Panizzi had problems with his car and made a wrong tyres choice in the first day, that's why he was beaten by these Guys. In the 2nd day the gap from the leaders was so big that the Team asked him to test some new solutions/parts for the future. On equal car and conditions only Basso and Andreucci may beat him on tarmac.
True, but still it showed the level of competition, only 2-3 sec difference of stage times. Too bad Panizzi don't run full IRC program, it will be a lot easier to compare.

[HaCo]

Maybe next year Panizzi will do full IRC, let's hope!

Is there any idea what Peugeot France, Italy, Spain will do next year? Any news on MG, what about Skoda?

[Rani]

Rossetti, Basso, Vouilloz, Scandola, Andreucci, Ojeda, they all outperform Panizzi early this year during San Remo. I hope that you remember that Panizzi is may be the only one to successfully challenge Loeb on asphalt.
I don't think comparing these drivers with Loeb while using Panizzi as a benchmark does Loeb any justice. I think Panizzi is way past his prime- when he was leading by a minute in Catalunya and doing donuts in celebration. Would love to be wrong though.
I think that not only has Panizzi's driving worsened, Loeb has gotten better. So much better he can now drive considerably lower then his limit and still beat all his rivals on a given asphalt stage, examples for this being all the last tarmac rallies this year.
I'm sorry, but I think that Loeb would destroy every driver you stated on equal terms.

[Mirek]

Maybe next year Panizzi will do full IRC, let's hope!

Is there any idea what Peugeot France, Italy, Spain will do next year? Any news on MG, what about Skoda?

Skoda most probably nothing in 2008 season.

[RS]

]Skoda most probably nothing in 2008 season.

It's starting to get a little worrying. It didn't take Peugeot 2 and a half years to develop the 207 did it?

[Mirek]

RS: There is nothing which could surprise me about Skoda Motorsport...

[J4MIE]

What about Kopecky? I think he said that he couldn't afford to run a WRC anymore? Plus he had a few top 8 places this year so maybe IRC would be good for him?

[RS]

I think Kopecky could do very well in IRC, especially with it's heavy tarmac bias.

In WRC, Kopecky's main supporter was Skoda Auto and they don't want to pay to promote the old car anymore.

I hope Skoda Motorsport will get on with testing the Fabia S2k very soon and that it will be fully ready and reliable for an IRC campaign in 2009.

[jparker]

I don't think comparing these drivers with Loeb while using Panizzi as a benchmark does Loeb any justice. I think Panizzi is way past his prime- when he was leading by a minute in Catalunya and doing donuts in celebration. Would love to be wrong though.
I think that not only has Panizzi's driving worsened, Loeb has gotten better. So much better he can now drive considerably lower then his limit and still beat all his rivals on a given asphalt stage, examples for this being all the last tarmac rallies this year.
I'm sorry, but I think that Loeb would destroy every driver you stated on equal terms.

Ok, I agree. Panizzi is not the best benchmark. But who is? What's your benchmark? Loeb can only compare himself to Sordo in WRC, the rest, they have no idea how to drive on tarmac. They like gravel (lady stuff). The point is, until we see Loeb against the guys I mentioned with equal machinery, I don't consider Loeb the best on tarmac.

[Mirek]

J4MIE, RS: Kopecky will do the IRC with Peugeot since Fabia won't be ready soon.

[PLuto]

]J4MIE, RS: Kopecky will do the IRC with Peugeot since Fabia won't be ready soon.

You are talking more, than you know. His start in IRC (and with this car) isnt certain yet...

[Rani]

Ok, I agree. Panizzi is not the best benchmark. But who is? What's your benchmark? Loeb can only compare himself to Sordo in WRC, the rest, they have no idea how to drive on tarmac. They like gravel (lady stuff). The point is, until we see Loeb against the guys I mentioned with equal machinery, I don't consider Loeb the best on tarmac.
I don't have a benchmark, I just think that if they were as good as Loeb they'd probably get a chance to prove it with a works WRC drive. OK, I admit that it doesn't work that way nowadays, but still comparing Loeb to someone like Vouilloz (who just started rallying a few years back when he got tired of downhilling- correct me if I'm wrong) seems like comparing Marco Andretti to Fernando Alonso in the sense of taking two stars who participate on two different levels, not taking anything away from Marco.
Might be confusing but I hope everyone understands what I mean.

[HaCo]

]J4MIE, RS: Kopecky will do the IRC with Peugeot since Fabia won't be ready soon.
That would be good for Skoda too, as the 207 is the benchmark right now, they could get some good feedfack from Kop!

[DonJippo]

I don't have a benchmark, I just think that if they were as good as Loeb they'd probably get a chance to prove it with a works WRC drive.

Spot on, some just don't get it.

[jparker]

.... but still comparing Loeb to someone like Vouilloz (who just started rallying a few years back when he got tired of downhilling- correct me if I'm wrong)
Funny, because Loeb started exactly the same way (he got tired of gym-correct me if I'm wrong). I know, it's kind of humiliating for the sport, but what can you do.

[pino]

I don't have a benchmark, I just think that if they were as good as Loeb they'd probably get a chance to prove it with a works WRC drive.

Drivers like Alen, Basso, Vouilloz, Andreucci, Rossetti and even young Scandola would do well in WRC, unfortunately for them...there are only 3 official Team there. How can they get a chance ?

[Tomi]

Drivers like Alen, Basso, Vouilloz, Andreucci, Rossetti and even young Scandola would do well in WRC, unfortunately for them...there are only 3 official Team there. How can they get a chance ?

The same way the others do it, but dont worry if they are good enough they will find the seat on the top of the sport, and the driving for a tv trophy will be just a memory from the past.

[AndyRAC]

Drivers like Alen, Basso, Vouilloz, Andreucci, Rossetti and even young Scandola would do well in WRC, unfortunately for them...there are only 3 official Team there. How can they get a chance ?

And there my friend, is the REAL problem!! 3 Teams, which is the fault of the sport. Cars, costs, etc which are far too expensive to develop, for diminishing/little returns. Driving in the IRC is better than nothing, why knock the championship?

[pino]

..Driving in the IRC is better than nothing, why knock the championship?

Exactly :up: so why bash/criticize so much this serie, if it's the only way for some drivers to compete and show their skills ? Would love to hear one of our Finn expert about it...

[DonJippo]

Exactly :up: so why bash/criticize so much this serie, if it's the only way for some drivers to compete and show their skills ? Would love to hear one of our Finn expert about it...

So with how little you get to drive the whole IRC then? Can you show me how much cheaper it is compared to PWRC season because that is the comparison we have been talking about.

[Tomi]

Exactly :up: so why bash/criticize so much this serie, if it's the only way for some drivers to compete and show their skills ? Would love to hear one of our Finn expert about it...

Not an expert, but would it not be better to show your skills there where you are supposed to drive in the future? If your aim is not the top of the sport its the same what series you drive, but if your goal is WRC with the current recce system you are out right at start compaired to those who have doing PWRC or simular, I cant see how its so difficult to understand that.

[pino]

... Can you show me how much cheaper it is compared to PWRC season because that is the comparison we have been talking about.

No we are discussing a Championship that according to our friend Tomi is for ladies only. Read this thread again ;)




Not an expert, but would it not be better to show your skills there where you are supposed to drive in the future?

And if you don't have money/sponsor to buy you a seat or you 're not as good as Loeb, Mikko, Petter etc..what you're supposed to do ? Compete in PWRC ? Is that Serie better than IRC ? I don't think so...

[Rani]

In my opinion the IRC is okay, you just have to see in the right perspective, which is that it's a notch (or two) below the WRC in all the areas of cars, drivers, teams etc.
I for one also think that all the IRC guys would not be able to challenge for WRC wins, even if they get works seats. Some of them might be good tarmac drivers, but still I don't they are of the same caliber (at least for now, anyway).

[Tomi]

And if you don't have money/sponsor to buy you a seat or you 're not as good as Loeb, Mikko, Petter etc..what you're supposed to do ? Compete in PWRC ? Is that Serie better than IRC ? I don't think so...

They can offcourse drive where ever they like, I just commented Alens doings, it would be sad to see a talent like him going to waste. In PWRC you are infront of the eyes that of the guys who deside about the seats and drive the right events.

[Wim_Impreza]

And if you don't have money/sponsor to buy you a seat or you 're not as good as Loeb, Mikko, Petter etc..what you're supposed to do ? Compete in PWRC ? Is that Serie better than IRC ? I don't think so...

Off course the PWRC is much better than the IRC.

[A.F.F.]

Do you guys honestly think that talents won't be found from other series too ?? LOL.

If Abarth want to compete in IRC rather than PWRC, it's their pussy strategy. Alen has chosen this path and I don't see how it's a complete waste of time ??? IMO experience is more than experience of those stages used in PWRC/WRC.

[Tomi]

Do you guys honestly think that talents won't be found from other series too ?? LOL.

Offcourse they can, but cant remember a single one now that has been picked from IRC or ERC, but from WRC related many, maybe you can tell a few just to remind.

[HaCo]

Off course the PWRC is much better than the IRC.

It all depends from what perspective you look at it. From manufactures point of view IRC is certainly better. From gaining experience and preparing for WRC, PWRC is better.

I also don't think IRC guys would be fast enough to beat the WRC guys in the same cars, however if you see guys like Basso, Alen, Voullioz, IMO they would certainly be able to beat Stohl, H Solberg, Wilson, ... Never the less, guys that have the experience of driving the WRC for several years have a VERY big advantage over the rookies that just come in.

[RS]

When, seriously, did someone last progress from pWRC to a WRC drive? I mean who won this year? Arai. I don't see him going anywhere soon.

pWRC lacks competitive drivers, has only 2 car makes, almost zero publicity and for 2008 no tarmac rounds but I guess that last part suits the Finns eh? Teasing ;)

[Tomi]

pWRC lacks competitive drivers, has only 2 car makes, almost zero publicity and for 2008 no tarmac rounds but I guess that last part suits the Finns eh? Teasing ;)

I dont see anything wrong with 2 about equal carmakes, it separate drivers from tourists, what comes to Arai, if i dont remember wrong also Arai has had his chanses with WRC cars, the lacking of tarmac is not a problem at all, tarmac you can go and training easily somewhere in central europe, often the organiser even pay your bills.

[PLuto]

So with how little you get to drive the whole IRC then? Can you show me how much cheaper it is compared to PWRC season because that is the comparison we have been talking about.

Yes, I can tell you calculations. 7 European IRC races with Peugeot 207 S2000 are on half price of 6 PCWRC with Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX (I am comparing offers for next season with renting private cars)

[RS]

I dont see anything wrong with 2 about equal carmakes, it separate drivers from tourists, what comes to Arai, if i dont remember wrong also Arai has had his chanses with WRC cars, the lacking of tarmac is not a problem at all, tarmac you can go and training easily somewhere in central europe, often the organiser even pay your bills.

Re: Arai; the clue in the tense of the words you use - he "had" his "chances" and that was arguably only becuase he was Japanese and had the sympathy of Subaru.

As for tarmac, I was pretty impressed with how Hirvonen and especially Latvala developed on that surface this year. But that is probably the main reason why they are going to lose the 2008 WRC title to Loeb.

[PLuto]

Re: Arai; the clue in the tense of the words you use - he "had" his "chances" and that was arguably only becuase he was Japanese and had the sympathy of Subaru.

As for tarmac, I was pretty impressed with how Hirvonen and especially Latvala developed on that surface this year. But that is probably the main reason why they are going to lose the 2008 WRC title to Loeb.

You have PM :)

[Tomi]

Re: Arai; the clue in the tense of the words you use - he "had" his "chances" and that was arguably only becuase he was Japanese and had the sympathy of Subaru.

Yes the point is to try to do result when you get the chance, many drivers had their try, Duval, Kresta and so on the list is long, rally on top level is a professional sport no matter how many teams are around everyone who want to drive never gets a car, and thats good it is like that.

[RS]

Yeah wonderful.

Back to the original question, looking at the last 5 or so years pWRC results tables, the only driver to have made any progress from Grp N cars at all is JML who arguably didn't start getting taken very seriously until his WRCar runs and probably had the support behind to make it, pWRC or not.

I'm fairly sure Alen is going to do pretty well in IRC this year and I can see him progressing onto WRC in a few years if there are any drives available. Maybe Alen Snr could restart his career in pWRC, he could probably do pretty well there actually.

[Tomi]

Yeah wonderful.

Back to the original question, looking at the last 5 or so years pWRC results tables, the only driver to have made any progress from Grp N cars at all is JML who arguably didn't start getting taken very seriously until his WRCar runs and probably had the support behind to make it, pWRC or not.

I'm fairly sure Alen is going to do pretty well in IRC this year and I can see him progressing onto WRC in a few years if there are any drives available. Maybe Alen Snr could restart his career in pWRC, he could probably do pretty well there actually.

And about the drivers from ERC or IRC, who has made it to the top?
There is no question that Alen will make it, but why give 3-4 years (even more if the rotation remains) ahead to his main competitors, thats the issue.
What comes to Alen Snr, he is a driver from the past like Panizzi etc, and i guess you know where they drive.

[pino]

And about the drivers from ERC or IRC, who has made it to the top?
There is no question that Alen will make it, but why give 3-4 years (even more if the rotation remains) ahead to his main competitors, thats the issue.
What comes to Alen Snr, he is a driver from the past like Panizzi etc, and i guess you know where they drive.

Phone to Anton then, tell him to leave Abarth, go to each WRC Team, kneel down and ask for a seat...

Merry Christmas paisá :D

[DonJippo]

Phone to Anton then, tell him to leave Abarth, go to each WRC Team, kneel down and ask for a seat...

Why WRC teams? We are talking about IRC vs PWRC.

[DonJippo]

Yes, I can tell you calculations. 7 European IRC races with Peugeot 207 S2000 are on half price of 6 PCWRC with Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX (I am comparing offers for next season with renting private cars)

Thanks for the info, can you also tell how much that is € per stage mileage? Just to get the full picture of the costs.

[Tomi]

Phone to Anton then, tell him to leave Abarth, go to each WRC Team, kneel down and ask for a seat...

Merry Christmas paisá :D

Im going today close where they live, i might drop by, but i dont kneel.
BTW when are they going to announce Gallis seat?

Merry Christmas to you too paisá :)

[A.F.F.]

And about the drivers from ERC or IRC, who has made it to the top?



From IRC, none. Like you know, IRC is a pretty young serie and the driver flow has been other way around. Former WRC drivers are heading to IRC.

About ERC I don't know.

But the point from spotting the talents wasn't that. I rather pointing the future, not past.

[DonJippo]

But the point from spotting the talents wasn't that. I rather pointing the future, not past.

Talents can be spotted every where but it's about what you do with the talent...

[HaCo]

I don't see why IRC drivers should be future world champions? IMO it's allready very cool to be a tense series by itself. Let WRC do its thing and let IRC do it. It is not supposed to be that way, it's of course nice if it could bring WRC champions.

So don't say, "IRC sucks, because it doesn't bring you future WRC champs".

I think it is great we see 'older' WRC drivers battling young rookie drivers, if it is a nice battle in rally's, I want it all!

[A.F.F.]

Talents can be spotted every where but it's about what you do with the talent...

Now WTF was that suppose to mean ??

Is it better to go with PWRC or JWRC to drive and gain experience from the actual rally stages driven in WRC rallies. Which are supposely more expensive and you most probably won't get much of attention, based on what, let's say former PWRC champions or rally winners even?

Or

Is it better to drive IRC, supposely cheaper machinery, easier entry list and try to shine there and maybe get noticed ??

I honestly don't know what is the straightest way to heaven but when we come to the original question, I don't think IRC is ladies stuff until there are Natalie Barrett driving against Michele Mouton. It's great idea to improve rallying to greater audience and with greater chance to get your fifteen seconds of fame.

[AndyRAC]

It also gives a chance to Manufacturers to dip their toe into Rallying, to see whether they like it or not without spending a fortune on the WRC. After all, we still don't know for sure what the future WRCars are going to be, the F1A like to change their minds.

[Mirek]

I think that no matter the stages JRC is good for nothing. No competition, no need to grow. Realy don't think it is usefull these days (except to win it and get the Citroën junior prize - some WRC runs)...

But I think that big minus for IRC is too much tarmac rallys. And that also make it different to PCWRC. Don't think that gravel runners from PCWRC would want to compete in tarmac IRC and vice versa. By the way the results in PCWRC are good for nothing, if You want to go higher, You must pay and You don't need PCWRC to go into WRC if You have budget. The good thing is some knowledge of stages but with new rotation system? Who knows where they will compete next time...