Finland's Motorsport talent system

[Sulland]

It is amazing to follow the way Soumi/ Finland is coming up with Top-Line drivers in both Rally and F1 all the time !

But this is not due to coincidence, it is due to a model the Finns have followed for a long time.
The Finns on the forum can explain much better than me, but the model in short is that the current top drivers get a responsibility to help one or more of the fresh talented drivers the last bit to the top.

I am not sure if there are Agents/Managers or other people sitting in the background, working towards the same goal.

Can a Finn please explain in detail ?

My point is that more Nations need to learn from this, since the system seems to work perfectly !

Do other countries have ways/systems of helping talent to the top, or is it every man for himself ?

[Tomi]

I think it's much like you explained, the federation also arranges courses (teachers are absolute top level, meaning world champions) and has special coaching for the most talented, but good manager is the most important, rally is expensive.
Also the past champs helps out in what they can, for instance i read from the forum today that Dele is going to start in monte with top car, if he can arrange such ride for himself, he could have done it for someone who really need the drive, thats the difference.
Also its good to have a top level national series, you have to drive flatout right from the start of the carreer, the others anyway will.
Forgot to mention that a good planning is important too, what series to drive and when in what cars and so on, its also important to show the sponsors progress, so they continiue to help.

[rp]

cheap cars, good roads and oil money...

Just kidding, the one thing is for sure the long tradition in rallying, world´s best rally roads and lately Mr Timo Jouhki. He was the manager of Juha, Tommi and Harri and is still involved in rallying very strongly with Toni, Mikko and J-M. Without him only one Finnish rally driver has reached the highest level during the last 20 years and it was Marcus...

Sadly Mr Jouhki has said that he may not take a new protégé anymore, but who knows if he finds really talented driver...

[A.F.F.]

Don't forget what AKK has done with their training program.

[Finni]

I would say that Finland just has largest material of fast drivers in rallying. There is program by AKK but I am not sure if it's behind of many succesfull driver. Normally finnish drivers has to achieve certain level of mastery in tough national series and then he can dream about sponsoring. For instance in Britain you need only right father or right face to become wrc-driver (Wilson, Mchale contra Meeke and Wilks). In Norway the overall level in national championship is too slender to produce consistently top wrc-drivers.

As to F1 I have impression that Räikkönen and Kovalainen for instance came up quite normal route. Räikkönen drove in Europe and then became picked up to Formulla Renault by englismen named Robertsons?

[jparker]

Speaking of training programs and talent systems, what's Anton Alen's history of training?

[GruppoB]

Its quite simple

FINISH RALLY MAFIA

I kid!

[jparker]

Its quite simple

FINISH RALLY MAFIA

I kid!

I don't think so. Some kids just don't get it, so it must be something else.

[Magnus]

I have always wondered why sweden is som dominating in the WRC :s
We have the gravel roads, we have more people then Finland, we have a big motorsport community, may be those are the reasons.
I am fed up with it. I am thinking of becoming a finn or a norse instead, or maybe we can just take them with brute military force? But nah, the only thing which is brute in Sweden is the taxes... :devil:

[AndyRAC]

The Finnish governing body (AKK) obviously want their drivers to do well, and will support them properly. In UK we have the MSA, enough said.....

[A.F.F.]

AKK has training for karting and racinng series plus rallying. It doesn't make champions but surely help those who have the talent to move forward. I think getting in AKK's junior training is a big step in one's early career.

[I am evil Homer]

But then in the UK track racing is more of a tradition than rally and look how we do at that...Hamilton, DC, Button , Davidson in F1, Priaulx and Thompson in WTCC, Jarvis and others in lower formula, Toseland champion in WSBK.

The BRC has been dying for a while and sadly the guys who seem to have the most natural talent - Wilks and Meeke - don't have the backers to make the most of it.

[Josti]

Our national motorsport federation (KNAF) finally took initiative this year with their own Group N team in the World Rally Championship. I hope it will be even more serious next year, and do PWRC (with at least one driver).

[Tomi]

Our national motorsport federation (KNAF) finally took initiative this year with their own Group N team in the World Rally Championship. I hope it will be even more serious next year, and do PWRC (with at least one driver).

this sounds like a good idea, also if the funds are limited its better to support 1 guy properly than 2 a little bit, here is where i think the swedes has done wrong.

[Sami]

Well, the same old subject brought up again.

I don't think it is about coaching. The national level coaching system has not brought anyone to the absolute top level.

Hänninen and Pinomäki are in, but both have be coached also by an italian driver. So is Matti Rantanen, but his breakthrough hasn't come yet, and I would say, is not gonna happen. Fourth driver in the coaching team is the most talented one, Jarkko Nikara, but he is driving mostly on national level next year as far as I know.

Then we have other local coaching teams in the system, and that has an influence I guess, but mostly on national motorsport level.

I think the key word is national competition, we had 1457 drivers and 1417 rally cars entering a rally in 2007, and the average entries were 136 per rally (34 rallies aranged in 2007). All the rallies are really fast (average speed of national championship was 115km/h), even on the F-cup blind rallies (driven without any notes whatsoever) the average speed was 110km/h (driven with 2wd, rwd old cars), driven on snow (50%) and gravel (50%).

The only approach in Finnish rallies is to go flat out from the beginning, one stage taken easy drops you several places down in the results.

I would say again that one of the most important things is the blindness of most of the rallies. Of the 34 rallies 25 was driven without no notes. That combined with the tough competition and extremely fast roads means that everyone has to learn to control the car in extreme conditions and save close calls in order to stay alive. The school is hard, I thing that all the Finnish drivers entering the World Series has more experience in rolling cars than the drivers coming from reccerally cultures.

Here is a typical example of a F-cup junior driving, in car of a complete stage of the last round of F-cup, driven by Antti Tawast (Opel Kadett GSi) who finished second in junior class in that competition

SS1: http://www.toofastracing.net/video-lapua2007-ek1.php
SS5: http://www.toofastracing.net/video-lapua2007-ek5.php
see http://www.toofastracing.net

Another good example, by Seppo Kopra (BMW M3)
SS2: http://www.koskelo.fi/koskelo-kauhava2007-ek2.mpg
SS1: http://www.koskelo.fi/koskelo-kauhava2007-ek1.mpg

In blind competitions there tend to be one two close calls per a special stage, that is the most important coaching!

[DonJippo]

I would say again that one of the most important things is the blindness of most of the rallies. Of the 34 rallies 25 was driven without no notes. That combined with the tough competition and extremely fast roads means that everyone has to learn to control the car in extreme conditions and save close calls in order to stay alive. The school is hard, I thing that all the Finnish drivers entering the World Series has more experience in rolling cars than the drivers coming from reccerally cultures.

I totally agree with this one :up:

[shurik]

I would say again that one of the most important things is the blindness of most of the rallies. Of the 34 rallies 25 was driven without no notes. That combined with the tough competition and extremely fast roads means that everyone has to learn to control the car in extreme conditions and save close calls in order to stay alive. The school is hard, I thing that all the Finnish drivers entering the World Series has more experience in rolling cars than the drivers coming from reccerally cultures.
Wish we had thi sort of events :rolleyes:

[COD]

As what sami says can be true in many ways, we have one example that destroys the theory: Jari-Matti Latvala. He has not done a single blind rally in Finland or anywhere else, so this can not be the only reason.

[Finni]

As what sami says can be true in many ways, we have one example that destroys the theory: Jari-Matti Latvala. He has not done a single blind rally in Finland or anywhere else, so this can not be the only reason.

You nailed it. I think that tough and wide competition in all levels is rather the key.

For Sami, are you sure that Nikara is more talented than Hänninen? Hänninen's results from group N has been slender but in terms of raw pace he has been perhaps most convincing pwrc driver in five year. Also his stage times with Mitsu wrc in Finland were improving to very high level before technical problems. I remember especially Lautaperä where he was fourth with Mitsu wrc.

[DonJippo]

As what sami says can be true in many ways, we have one example that destroys the theory: Jari-Matti Latvala. He has not done a single blind rally in Finland or anywhere else, so this can not be the only reason.

There is always an exception to any rule...even to the rule #1 ;)

[Sami]

Jari-Matti Latvala for sure is an exception, for him they have built a career since he was 10 (he got his first competiotion car at the age of 8). He has driven variety of cars in variety of conditions since the beginning (in GB, Italy, Finland already in the first year), rwd (corolla, ascona, escort), fwd (opel astra, renault clio group n and a, citroen saxo, suzuki ignis, ford puma and fiesta) and 4wd (lancer, impreza, cup and N, corolla wrc, Focus versions)...

Everyone knew he's gonna go far since he started the rallysprint competitions in Corolla GT 16 years old.

[SubaruNorway]

Grönhoms are going to be Andreas Mikkelsen's mentor helping him with everything from setup to pacenotes and support on event's.

http://www.vimenn.no/bil/article178362.ece

[Sami]

You nailed it. I think that tough and wide competition in all levels is rather the key.

For Sami, are you sure that Nikara is more talented than Hänninen? Hänninen's results from group N has been slender but in terms of raw pace he has been perhaps most convincing pwrc driver in five year. Also his stage times with Mitsu wrc in Finland were improving to very high level before technical problems. I remember especially Lautaperä where he was fourth with Mitsu wrc.

It is not relevant discussion, both are talented.

But comparing their early years I saw Nikara as a more pure natural talent, he was phenomenal in his first competitions in an astra, Hänninen was not that amazing until his second Civic year...

[Sulland]

Can anyone explain AKK's role in more detail - what they do and how they do it.
Is the role of the past and current top drivers included into this, or is their role separate ?
Is sponsorship a part of the deal ?

[rdr]

Can anyone explain AKK's role in more detail - what they do and how they do it.
Is the role of the past and current top drivers included into this, or is their role separate ?
Is sponsorship a part of the deal ?


- Now (2008) coach/teacher is Risto Mannisenmäki
Main sectors: season and career planing, physical and mental training, driving, car handling (diffrent test's and analysing), working with team, appearance and language skills, pace-notes, rules, marketing, antidoping etc..

- no any other AKK sponsorship!!!

[Maui J.]

I remember starting an almost identical thread like this on a rival forum 3 or 4 years ago.

I think Jonkka's answer summed it up best in a few words... "Success breeds success".