Which idiot invented ABS

[Daniel]

Which idiot thought up ABS? What was wrong with feeling the grip on the road?

Driving down a steep wet road tonight and I took a wide line on a corner just because it's safest so you can avoid any cars coming up and was driving with my front left wheel off the road on leaves. So of course the car detects that the wheel is locking up and lets the brakes off. So rather than having 3 wheels braking for me I then had no wheels braking. Yeah great idea numbnuts! I was wanting to brake so I then had no brakes.

Why do we have EBD, ABS, TC and so on? Whatever happened to natural selection, feeling what grip your car had and making a conscious effort not to try to kill yourself and others rather than relying on something that doesn't actually know what it should be doing to keep you safe? :mark:

I like the fact that when I need to pull out into traffic quickly I can judge how much throttle I need and get some wheelspin and get out and up to speed as quickly as possible. Why would I want traction control to take my power away and cause me to have an accident. Grrrrrrr.

[ChrisS]

ABS gives you steering control under braking and allows you to hit the breaks really hard without locking the wheels and skiding.

what you said doesn't sound like how ABS works. From what I know, when ABS detected your front left wheel locking up it should have released the breaks of that wheel so it would match the wheel spin of the other wheels, not release the breaks all together

[RaceFanStan]

If your ABS caused the senario you describe you need to have it checked !
ABS monitors for brake locking & adjusts itself accordingly but NEVER totally releases the brakes !
Seeing you posting about it means you survived the adventure which is good. :D

[Daniel]

If your ABS caused the senario you describe you need to have it checked !
ABS monitors for brake locking & adjusts itself accordingly but NEVER totally releases the brakes !
Seeing you posting about it means you survived the adventure which is good. :D
Well perhaps no brakes was a bit over the top :p

It only happened at about 10 mph so no real danger to me :)

My point was just that I was perfectly in control and the electronics didn't know what was going on and tried to help and just made things less good :mark:

[Mark]

I had something similar last week. I was on Gateshead flyover and braking down hill to stop at the back of a queue of traffic. I ran over a bridge expansion joint and all of a sudden no brakes! Thankfully I was still some distance from the other cars.

[tannat]

There is no substitute for a skilled driver.....

[Easy Drifter]

95% of the time ABS is better. One case where it is not is in fairly deep snow where locking the brakes will create a wall of snow in front of the tires which will work better than ABS. Mind you the brakes need to be locked which means no steering and most experienced drivers tend to brake to the threshold of locking.
Personally I do not like ABS although I realize that it is better. :confused:

[Tomi]

Which idiot thought up ABS? What was wrong with feeling the grip on the road?

take off the fuse.

[Daniel]

I had something similar last week. I was on Gateshead flyover and braking down hill to stop at the back of a queue of traffic. I ran over a bridge expansion joint and all of a sudden no brakes! Thankfully I was still some distance from the other cars.

As you should always be :) Was driving through some terrible weather on the M6 today and for once people were driving quite well!!!!


There is no substitute for a skilled driver.....

Very much so. I wouldn't consider myself a highly skilled driver after only 6 and a half years of driving but I like to think I'm fairly careful.


take off the fuse.

Yes but then if I have an accident I have no insurance :p

I did find one thing that helps with ABS yesterday. The handbrake!!!!! Found a nice lovely open gravel area and handbraked it around a nice tight gravel corner :cheese:

[J4MIE]

Yes Daniel I had the same on the RAC Rally a few weeks back, single track road covered with leaves and mud and a rally car came over a crest towards me. I swear it took forever for the car to stop :\

[Tomi]

Yes but then if I have an accident I have no insurance :p

You offcourse replase it with a broken one.

[Malbec]

Well perhaps no brakes was a bit over the top :p

It only happened at about 10 mph so no real danger to me :)

My point was just that I was perfectly in control and the electronics didn't know what was going on and tried to help and just made things less good :mark:

Its not clear from your posts but if the ABS kicked in on all four wheels then you need to get the system checked. It should only work on the wheels that have locked, in your case the one on the leaves.

If it just worked on the wheel on the leaves then the system worked fine, you didn't lose much if any braking ability and all the system did was to take you unawares and give you a little surprise. Sounds as if its still worth having them to me.

[nicemms]

ABS was probably invented for the idiots on the road who don't drive properly on roads and don't concentrate!

Therefore they need fancy electronics to make sure they don't crash.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I don't actually know if my car has ABS :s

[Daniel]

I don't actually know if my car has ABS :s
Would be surprised if you didn't. Next time you're on a nice straight bit of road with no one around and it's wet. Stomp on the brakes at low speed and you'll find out :)

[GridGirl]

Hmm I was only talking about ABS today as I was wondering whether or not my car has traction control. I still have no idea if it does or not, but that got us onto talking about ABS. In 15 months I've only ever got it to kick in three times. The times when it did work I didn't think was needed yet there are times when I've slammed on and I would of thought that it would kick in but it didn't. I cant work it out but I'd rather have it than not. :)

[rah]

ABS and other driver aids are great. But they are like seat belts. They are great fro 99% of the time. I for one would prefer all cars to have driver aids like this. I don't want to be taken out because some other driver does not know how to stop properly. Unfortunately many people do not take advantage of their driving aids in bad situations.

A great thing about ABS is that it frees you up to do other things. Many moons ago while driving in the wet a driver pulled out in front with no indicators and hit the brakes. I was doing about 60kph in a pulsar with ABS. I simply hit the brakes as hard and looked around for a gap to slot into. Having ABS meant that the car in front was no longera major issue, i was going to hit it if I did not change lanes however ABS free'd up my mind to look at alternatives.

The problem arises when people hit the brakes and use their ABS but do not use it to its full potential and try to steer out of the situation.

[Malbec]

The problem arises when people hit the brakes and use their ABS but do not use it to its full potential and try to steer out of the situation.

Its surprising that car manufacturers and driving instructors don't give you much instruction as to how to actually use ABS when it kicks in. You don't get the most out of it if you simply put your foot down in a blind panic IMO.

[rah]

Its surprising that car manufacturers and driving instructors don't give you much instruction as to how to actually use ABS when it kicks in. You don't get the most out of it if you simply put your foot down in a blind panic IMO.

Absolutely right. But is it the manufacturers fault that not enough driver training happens?

When I went for my driving test, I was asked to drive around and reverse park. Not much emphasis on what I am supposed to do in an emergency.

[Malbec]

Absolutely right. But is it the manufacturers fault that not enough driver training happens?

When I bought my car from a dealer they gave a good technical description of what ABS does, ie stops the brakes from locking the wheels. The instruction manual did the same. Neither of them told me what I should do with that and how it should change my driving compared to a non-ABS model. I had to go out and find stuff myself about that, most people wouldn't bother.

Given that ABS should only work in pants-wetting situations where you aren't able to use logic to sort the situation out I'm sure more should be done to teach drivers about what to do with it before you need to use it. The majority of drivers out there passed their tests before ABS became common yet there's been near zero education on how to use it.

[Mark]

Hmm I was only talking about ABS today as I was wondering whether or not my car has traction control. I still have no idea if it does or not, but that got us onto talking about ABS. In 15 months I've only ever got it to kick in three times. The times when it did work I didn't think was needed yet there are times when I've slammed on and I would of thought that it would kick in but it didn't. I cant work it out but I'd rather have it than not. :)

The ST has an optional Electronic Stability Programme which includes traction control, but you would know if your car had it, firstly there would be a button on the dashboard (beside the hazard warning button) and you would remember paying over £500 for it!

[GridGirl]

Hmmm thats obviously the reason why it didn't work when I span my wheels in the rain yesterday then. I really should pay attention to these kind of things when I'm purchasing a car but I don't. At least I know its not broken now. :p

[airshifter]

Its surprising that car manufacturers and driving instructors don't give you much instruction as to how to actually use ABS when it kicks in. You don't get the most out of it if you simply put your foot down in a blind panic IMO.

Actually, most ABS systems stop the quickest if you do just that, mash the brake and hold it.

I think part of the problem lies with conditioning people to get used to ABS. People who have driven non ABS equipped cars are used to trying to prevent wheel lock, and probably don't get the full benefit of the ABS system.

I recall years ago when they introduced ABS on several US cars. One of the magazines (Car & Driver IIRC) tested several cars and stopping distances. Using well trained drivers with racing experience, only one instance did any driver stop faster with a non ABS car. By comparision, the average driver could stop the ABS equipped cars just as fast as the pro's. Those same drivers had much farther braking distances with non ABS cars.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Would be surprised if you didn't. Next time you're on a nice straight bit of road with no one around and it's wet. Stomp on the brakes at low speed and you'll find out :)

It has ABS with EBD :s

[tsarcasm]

It has taken me a lot time to get used to the ABS in my civic 2.0. All my previous cars had standard brakes. In the dry I can threshold brake 2x better, as the ABS is too sensitive. But in the wet/snow or panic situations ABS has no equal (in everyday road cars). So somewhat reluctantly my fuse stays in place.

[Mark]

It has ABS with EBD :s

Electronic Brake Distribution, I think that solves the problem Daniel was talking about in that it individually senses the movement of each wheel and applies the brakes accordingly.

[Daniel]

Well I checked my Haynes manual and mine also has an ABS system which senses all four wheel speeds. I did do a test last night and it didn't seem to brake much worse. Perhaps it was just psychological :p

[Mark]

Well I checked my Haynes manual and mine also has an ABS system which senses all four wheel speeds. I did do a test last night and it didn't seem to brake much worse. Perhaps it was just psychological :p

It might sense all four wheel speeds, but does the system act on each wheel individually?

[Daniel]

It might sense all four wheel speeds, but does the system act on each wheel individually?
Sorry forgot to mention. Yes :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_brakeforce_distribution

[RallyfanNZ]

Electronic Stability Control....4x4's would still be as **** as they were 5 years ago if not for it. Reduces the chance of crashing a 4x4 by 50%. And 23% in a car (surprise surprise). Reduces the chance of roll over which is great in a 4x4. So at least it really does save lives. Although I would like a disengagable version.

ABS, good in certain situations....especially with a **** house driver. Totally useless in rally conditions. Hence why it is scrapped.

[tsarcasm]

all ABS, ESP, and TC are related (on road cars)

each wheel hub/bearing has a 'chopper wheel' (like a timing wheel) with degree marks

the computer monitors all 4, if one is moving a different speed, the ABS, TC, or ESP kicks in...however advanced the programming is

[odykas]

A skilled driver doesn't have to use the brakes to take a corner :p :

[J4MIE]

A skilled driver doesn't have to use the brakes to take a corner :p :

Yes but we are talking about Daniel here :p :

How are you Ody, where have you been? :D

[leno]

Which idiot thought up ABS? What was wrong with feeling the grip on the road?

Driving down a steep wet road tonight and I took a wide line on a corner just because it's safest so you can avoid any cars coming up and was driving with my front left wheel off the road on leaves. So of course the car detects that the wheel is locking up and lets the brakes off. So rather than having 3 wheels braking for me I then had no wheels braking. Yeah great idea numbnuts! I was wanting to brake so I then had no brakes.

Why do we have EBD, ABS, TC and so on? Whatever happened to natural selection, feeling what grip your car had and making a conscious effort not to try to kill yourself and others rather than relying on something that doesn't actually know what it should be doing to keep you safe? :mark:

I like the fact that when I need to pull out into traffic quickly I can judge how much throttle I need and get some wheelspin and get out and up to speed as quickly as possible. Why would I want traction control to take my power away and cause me to have an accident. Grrrrrrr.


There is completely different technic breaking with ABS system than normal brakes. If you have ABS system you must always press the break pedal on full if you dont breake on full ABS is **** and you dont know how will respond.
When breaking with ABS in dangerous situation you MUST NOT press the clutch. If you press it ABS system restart and need more time to find optimal breaking

[Rani]

When breaking with ABS in dangerous situation you MUST NOT press the clutch. If you press it ABS system restart and need more time to find optimal breaking
Never heard this before, could you back it up?
I don't recall ABS having anything such as a "clutch actuation sensor" which would would "reset" it in a case of pressing the clutch.
IMO and knowledge pressing the clutch will not harm your braking force (as long as the brakes are operating properly and not fading) because the ABS' function is only affected by how hard you press the brake pedal and individual wheel speeds.

[leno]

Never heard this before, could you back it up?
I don't recall ABS having anything such as a "clutch actuation sensor" which would would "reset" it in a case of pressing the clutch.
IMO and knowledge pressing the clutch will not harm your braking force (as long as the brakes are operating properly and not fading) because the ABS' function is only affected by how hard you press the brake pedal and individual wheel speeds.

If you have abs brakes try braking hard and press the clutch you will see brakes stop braking for a moment and than braking again

on our faculty we were testing citroen c4, bmw 3 and honda accord and all those cars have this mistake in abs braking
so maybe you have right but our test give us results that braking with abs and pressing the clutch in middle of braking reset brakes