FGP - Last Discussion - McLaren.

[N. Jones]

Ok, it looks like the separate engine rate is deadlocked so I will pull it. We will make no changes to engine pricing and scoring for 2008.

The last issue to deal with, and I saved it for last for a reason, is McLaren.

My feeling is:

I cannot, with a clear conciseness, put McLaren at the bottom of the chassis and engine tables. To do so would repeat the Lewis Hamilton scenario of this season and I wish to avoid that at all costs. Part of the way these fantasy elements are scored is not just by what they did last year but what machinery are they driving in. I will be taking that into account from here on out.

With that in mind I cannot put McLaren at a price of 2 and 8 because everyone will be grabbing them. Therefore I propose to put them third in both categories.
This way they are pricey because they are going to be a top team next season but at the same time they are below 20 so as to not be too expensive (call it around 17 for both chassis and engine).

Let's hear arguments for an against! I will tabulate them and see where we stand. If there is a call to move them elsewhere I will do so. If not then they will be third in the "constructor" categories.

[truefan72]

put them where they would have been if there were no spygate
it is the only fair and rational thing to do,
...so probably 2nd

it is a pipe dream to wish they be placed any lower and afterall, this is fantasy F1 and not reality. Nobody here has to bear the lack of travel budget, pit lane assignment and other malignmebnts that come from the penalties imposed on the team. The only real factor here is performance, and all things being equal, the Mac's are probably a top 2 team in 2008

[Firstgear]

I agree that putting them in 2nd or 3rd would be the right thing to do. The only other thing I would suggest would be to make this descision as late as possible. Delaying your descision may give you a better indication of the probability of Mac being thrown out for constructors in 2008. If the FIA come up with something new against the Mac's in the coming months you may want to lower their costs. If nothing new hits the news, maybe put them in second.

Delaying may also give you a better indication for Renault. If it starts to look quite likely that Renault will get thrown out in a month or two, you might want to lower them as well.

I guess all I'm trying to say is more time = more information = better placement of teams.

[PSfan]

Well, I'm not really sure I like the idea of arbitrarily picking the value of the MacLeran team based on how we expect them to perform. The values in the past where based on where they finished, So I would have expected the choices to be along the lines of either setting their value based on them finishing 1st, 2nd, or last:

1st: because thats where they would have finished had they scored points in Hungary, and believe they dropped their appeal regarding the hungary points after they where already thrown out of the constructors championship.
2nd: Well because thats where they would have finished if they weren't thrown out of the CC and their Hungary appeal failed
11th: Goes without saying... thats their official classification isn't it?

I would be in favour of either them being valued at either 1st or 2nd. But secondary to this discussion, if McLeran are promoted, then shouldn't the values of BMW and downwards also be adjusted? (Ferrari as well if Mcleran are valued 1st)

[aryan]

I am with PSFan on this. I don't see the rational on putting an arbitrary value on McLaren. In regards to McLaren I only see two options in regards FGP:

1) Putting them last, as per FIA finishing order
2) putting them first, disegarding spygate for the purpose of FGP

Personally, I am for option 2, for obvious reasons.

[pino]

I would put them in 2nd pos :)

[aryan]

2) putting them first, disegarding spygate for the purpose of FGP



It has now come to my attention that if we disregard spygate but do take Hungry's fine into consideration, then McLaren would have finished 2nd.

That seems to be general consensus here, although I can't see the logic behind disregarding one fine but taking into account the other one, for the purpose of this conversation which is the merit of the car and its pace fpr FGP for next year of course.

So, it seems to me that we have 3 options after all (contradicting my previous post)

1. Put them first.
2. Put them second.
3. Put them last.

My choice is the first option of course, for obvious reasons :D

[N. Jones]

I could see putting them second.
I can also see that, so far, no has vigorously defended putting them last.
And yes, I will probably wait to annouce where they are going to go (they will be either 2nd or 3rd) so we can see what happens.

IF Renault get thrown out of 2007 then I am going to have to readjust the scoring again!

AND - what no one is talking about - Force India has a complaint up that STR & Super Aguri are customer cars and therefore illegal. Whenever that hearing takes place and if STR & SA are found guilty then they will be thrown out of 2007 as well!

We could have a very screwed-up FGP final standing!

[Breeze]

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
I'm stifling a big belly laugh right now. So sorry its at your expense N. You're a fine fellow and I'm so grateful for your effort at masticating an overlarge mouthful. :s mokin:

[jso1985]

I'd say make them cost the same as Ferrari

[Mark]

I'd say make them cost the same as Ferrari

I think that would be the fairest solution :up:

[PSfan]

I'd say make them cost the same as Ferrari


So should Ferrari be valued as the official results show in 1st, or 2nd in the standings had McLeran lost no points during the season ? :p :

[Mark]

So should Ferrari be valued as the official results show in 1st, or 2nd in the standings had McLeran lost no points during the season ? :p :

Neither. McLaren and Ferrari joint first.