Alonso to leave McLaren ! *Confirmed* *merged*

[Daniel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7074737.stm

Seems official. Apologies if it's a double post :p

[pino]

It's official, and this news deserves a separate thread ;)

[Daniel]

Do I get a cookie? :p

This was pretty obvious though wasn't it? I think it's the best thing to happen :)

[Henry Cutts]

Good news for Mclaren, now they can focus on winning the title

[pino]

Good news for both me thinks :p :

[I am evil Homer]

Best for everyone involved...it hasn't worked and now we can finally get to who will be driving where.

[Zico]

Yep.. best for both parties.

Where now for Fernando.. Renault? Anyone know what their drivers contact situation is?

[Powered by Cosworth]

Get him to Red Bull in place of DC, sort out the reliability and they'll be on a winner.

[ArrowsFA1]

So...where will he now go and who will replace him :confused:

[ArrowsFA1]

McLaren & Alonso have commented:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63742

[Storm]

I feel kind of bad about it but yes its probably for the best..seems like the 2nd seat at McLaren has been cursed...JPM and now Fernando

Good luck to Alonso where he goes now..don't go to Toyota!

[Dave B]

Hmm....

Red Bull: Newey's integrated into the team and hopefully they've got enough experience with his methods to have ironed out the unreliabilty. But who goes: DC or Webber? :s

Toyota: More money than god, but never once looked like becoming race winners let alone champions. Would a genuine top-class driver give them that final missing piece of the jigsaw?

Renault: They love him, he loves them. Flavio's made no secret of his desire to get Fernando back, but are they still the contenders they were just a year ago?

Ferrari: Two drivers under contract, but would they be willing to trade Massa? And would Alonso want a team mate who'd provide at least as big a challenge as Hamilton? Maybe he could go in 2009....

Williams: Unlikely to be attractive even if they could somehow raise the money.

My money's on a one-year deal with Red Bull followed by a move to Ferrari. But I've been wrong before...

[ioan]

What an unexpected news, think about how good his relationship with the team was. It must be the fault of the journalists who were convinced that he was unhappy with his new team! :D

Seriously, well done to them, this was never going to work.

[Daniel]

I think Renno :)

[ioan]

My money's on a one-year deal with Red Bull followed by a move to Ferrari. But I've been wrong before...

Is Kimi leaving Ferrari before the end of his contract?!

[Robinho]

hmmm, didn't see that coming :confused:

at last the driver merry go round can begin

[ArrowsFA1]

I wish Fernando luck in finding a team that will give him the opportunity to fight for the title in 2008.

Whatever else is said about his partnership with McLaren, he came damned close to defending his title again this year.

[GFlambe]

I've just had a thought. As we now know that Alonso was in receipt of confidential Ferrari data during this year's spying issue and the FIA have recently said that they are going to thoroughly investigate the 2008 McLaren car to ensure the machine does not incorporate Ferrari intellectual property. Will the FIA give the same attention to the car of any team that Alonso drives for next year?

It's a good thing for both parties that they've parted ways.

[BDunnell]

Let's face it, he could practically be linked with every team on the grid the way things are!

As others have said, it's the only sensible move. These things happen in work.

[millencolin]

i bet renault... but something is telling me Red Bull....

If that comes of and its Webber that goes... would i want him to go to Mclaren? i dunno.....

[passmeatissue]

Part of the equation - who wants to be labelled as his no2?

[tinchote]

We have to assume that FA wouldn't have closed his ties to McLaren if he didn't think that he has a decent drive assured for next year. It would be amazing to know what is really happening behind doors.

[jens]

I think that a pretty strange scenario might happen: a swap between DC and Alonso. That would make Webber quite mad (the guy he has managed to beat this year, will get into better team instead of him :s ), but RB refuses to let Mark go and McLaren sees that there is no better option than DC, who has just been released from his RB contract...

[almattitude_v1]

I am upset that Alonso came to this decision. I am a huge McLaren fan, but was very upset upon hearing that the team favoured Hamilton. Its not that I dont like Hamilton, but I did always like Alonso, even before he moved to McLaren. I thought that he should have stayed in McLaren and won the driver's championship next season, and THEN leave, just to show everyone that he was not the person to mess with. Anyway, whats done is done. This doesnt make me like McLaren any less, and the same as to Hamilton. No matter who drives for McLaren, theyre always my number one team.

[passmeatissue]

I don't think it will be a straight swap, I see 3 or even 4 drivers moving around to get the right pairings.

[VkmSpouge]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the possibility of Alonso joining Force India next season :p :

[almattitude_v1]

BMW-Sauber would be a nice team for Alonso to race for next season.

[ArrowsFA1]

It would be amazing to know what is really happening behind doors.
Coming to bookstores near you soon:
"Fernando Alonso: My Year At McLaren"
:D

[passmeatissue]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the possibility of Alonso joining Force India next season :p :

Apparently Honda made him an offer? How optimistic is that? :D

[osg]

Williams or Red Bull for me...... i'd even put $$ on it i'm that confident.

[Bagwan]

He's in talks with Bill Davis Racing .

[Zico]

He's in talks with Bill Davis Racing .

Hmm.. I'd heard he was thinking of swapping Roles with Valentino for a season with Yamaha in Moto GP.

[jens]

Actually I have started to like the possibility of seeing Alonso at Red Bull. Arguably Red Bull is also trying to get Ross Brawn, which would make them only stronger. Also we would have an interesting team-mate battle between Webber and Alonso. :cool:

[Wilderness]

Leaving McL was the worst kept secret in F1. The best being which team he'll end up at. I can imagine all of the lobbying going on behind the scenes, from Nelson Piquet Sr. to Adrian Newey.

[markabilly]

i bet renault... but something is telling me Red Bull....

If that comes of and its Webber that goes... would i want him to go to Mclaren? i dunno.....
Webber...that would be great...methinks NOT

Cause no more than FA, Webber will not play backseat to motormouth and RD wants someone to be a lap dog....plus Webber is not likely to be as polite as FA was about the golden child when goldie startys being a baby.

The smartest move by both would be BMW, if beemer really wants a wdc...but I agree that Rennie and Flavio are the most likely probabilities...but Ferrari or red bull?? Maybe so

As they say follow the money, as to who will put down the bread...after all, that is now what this psort has become all about...money money and money....

[rabf1]

I say Toyota.

Why do these rumours persist that he will go to Ferrari in 2009? Ferrari is smart enough not to mess things up for themselves.

[Tomski]

Can't see him going anywhere but Renault. He know's them, they know him. Ferrari, BMW are out of bounds, Williams can't afford him, and all the others are also rans where he doesn't stand a chance of winning.

£10 on the nose Renault!!

[THE_LIBERATOR]

I say Toyota.Yeah, & when Trulli is faster than him again he can have Trulli booted out of the team...again.

[OmarF1]

Well, if I was him, if will sign for Toyota and get and become a millionaire, even so his chances to ever win a championship again are very slim, so why to waste your time with mediocre teams that pay low? spend it with mediocre teams that pay you like a movie star.

He's young, 2 time world champion, millionaire, with all the time in the world to travel to where ever the hell he wants, to pay for luxury and excess, buy hot cars, date hot babes, why should he worry about a god damn thing? he's not our average unemployed guy, I don't think he's paying a mortgage and has 8 children to support is he? :D .

He should be relaxed as hell an in the meantime we as forumers believe he's in misery in a cave crying alone because he was one second place below a rookie in one year of his career. LOL.

go for the big bucks my friend, you already have the name and image to become a big brand holder.

but please don't send Kovalainen to McLaren that would be idiotic for the finn, no one who goes to Macca should expect great results alongside Hammy.

[tinchote]

I will be really surprised if McLaren get DC as some are saying.

As usual, Heidfeld is the unlucky guy who is not in the market when it matters. And maybe the same can be said of Webber. Heikki mentined he had options, so maybe he has been talking to McLaren?

[janneppi]

Kovalainen has been somewhat confident of a good spot next year, so either Renault or McLaren for him. I would be a bit surprised if he stays alongside Alonso after saying he won't accept anything other than equal treatment. Alonso propably won't allow that while McLaren would give him equal machinery to Hamilton.

Altough it would be great if DC were to find himself at McLaren, surely this time it would be his season. :p :

[Caroline]

I thought that FA sounded very sporting in his statement today. He can move on now and put this year behind him. I don't know where though :s Was also wondering, is de la Rosa still testing for McLaren these days/next season (after all the emails etc etc...).

[rabf1]

Omar has it right.

[Hondo]

I'm not convinced every team out there would want Alonso. Although a 2 time WDC, he is also disruptive to his teams and demands a level of treatment that some teams may not care provide. I think the "blackmail" incident has dented his reputation further and may affect the level of trust ant new team may bestow upon him.

[BDunnell]

I'm not convinced every team out there would want Alonso. Although a 2 time WDC, he is also disruptive to his teams and demands a level of treatment that some teams may not care provide. I think the "blackmail" incident has dented his reputation further and may affect the level of trust ant new team may bestow upon him.

I agree, although on the latter point, it must be said that such a situation is unlikely to ever occur again.

[fandango]

I'm not convinced every team out there would want Alonso. Although a 2 time WDC, he is also disruptive to his teams and demands a level of treatment that some teams may not care provide. I think the "blackmail" incident has dented his reputation further and may affect the level of trust ant new team may bestow upon him.


I don't agree with that. It's a fact that FA can win championships, and that he can make a big difference to a team. F1 is full of big egos, so there are plenty of team managers who would have the confidence to make it work where McLaren (or Ron Dennis) failed. If not they shouldn't be team managers.

There's talk of a restriction on the contract release, so that FA would only be able to go to a privateer team. Rules out Renault and Toyota (not that they'll be much threat to McLaren). That basically leaves Williams and Red Bull. Marketing-wise and money-wise it'd have to be Red Bull, but I'd love to see a Williams return to form with Alonso and Rosberg. You'd never see Patrick Head hanging round the podium trying to pretend he's mates with Fernando. And if Alonso moans, Frank'd tell him where it's at. I think they're made for each other...

[rohanweb]

Good news////finally Alonso leaves mclaren.
now where next? I guess its to be renault.. and fisi might just retain the role of the no-2 sidekick in favour of Alonso once again.. i doubt Heiki wants to take on that role..mmm

[rohanweb]

I don't agree with that. It's a fact that FA can win championships, and that he can make a big difference to a team. F1 is full of big egos, so there are plenty of team managers who would have the confidence to make it work where McLaren (or Ron Dennis) failed. If not they shouldn't be team managers.

There's talk of a restriction on the contract release, so that FA would only be able to go to a privateer team. Rules out Renault and Toyota (not that they'll be much threat to McLaren). That basically leaves Williams and Red Bull. Marketing-wise and money-wise it'd have to be Red Bull, but I'd love to see a Williams return to form with Alonso and Rosberg. You'd never see Patrick Head hanging round the podium trying to pretend he's mates with Fernando. And if Alonso moans, Frank'd tell him where it's at. I think they're made for each other...


I kind of agree with your post fandango.. ;)
if thats the case as you said then bring back some race winning glory days of williamsF1..by getting Alonso there.. but the money wont be that good there..

[passmeatissue]

It's an amusing thought, Fernando getting a hair-dryer from Patrick Head :D

But no way Nico's contract will have him no 2 driver.

Has to be RB, I think. Will DC be a designated no. 2? Not Webbo for sure. It's so public now that FA's teammate will be junior. I think DC will walk, and RB will find a desperate young driver to swallow his pride, like Liuzzi.

[rabf1]

"There's talk of a restriction on the contract release"

As I understand it, he got a complete release. He can go to any team.

[Tomi]

Looks like Kovalainen will drive McLaren next year, will be fun to watch.

[rohanweb]

Alonso is not a team player and therefore his work ethics were at odds with the team.

Wherever Alonso ends up in the future, as a result of his behaviour in 2007 the team will certainly know exactly what to expect....

Either they can prepare to roll over to the prima dona's selfish demands or expect a very bumpy ride!

Good Luck to whomever takes him on...heil briatore

[fandango]

Alonso is not a team player and therefore his work ethics were at odds with the team.

Wherever Alonso ends up in the future, as a result of his behaviour in 2007 the team will certainly know exactly what to expect....

Either they can prepare to roll over to the prima dona's selfish demands or expect a very bumpy ride!

Good Luck to whomever takes him on...heil briatore

Alonso's not a team player? You need a good team to win championships, and in the last few years Alonso has won two WDC. Do you really think that was just down to him moaning and getting his way? How many championships have McLaren won recently?

[tinchote]

It's interesting that apparently the Spanish sponsors are staying at McLaren. Will that affect the choice of the new driver?

[tinchote]

Alonso's not a team player? You need a good team to win championships, and in the last few years Alonso has won two WDC. Do you really think that was just down to him moaning and getting his way? How many championships have McLaren won recently?

None. But that's precisely the point. Many of us think that without FA, McLaren would have won in 2007 (despite FA's 6 tenths ;) )

[Spanish]

None. But that's precisely the point. Many of us think that without FA, McLaren would have won in 2007 (despite FA's 6 tenths ;) )

:D :D :D :D

And without LH, Mclaren and Fernando would have been both champions

[fandango]

None. But that's precisely the point. Many of us think that without FA, McLaren would have won in 2007 (despite FA's 6 tenths ;) )

But wasn't it McLaren's decision to sign Alonso? Wasn't it their decision to put up with his moaning? They should have read the riot act to him from the first day. They messed up by their own decisions. They should and could have managed things a lot better, so it's just as silly imo to say they would have won without him as it is to say he brought 6/10 of a second, but both may indeed be true...

[fandango]

Anyway, would have, could have, should have.. All it amounts to now is a few modal auxiliary verbs. It's good that they've put it behind them and moved on.

[tinchote]

:D :D :D :D

And without LH, Mclaren and Fernando would have been both champions

Absolutely.


But wasn't it McLaren's decision to sign Alonso? Wasn't it their decision to put up with his moaning? They should have read the riot act to him from the first day. They messed up by their own decisions. They should and could have managed things a lot better, so it's just as silly imo to say they would have won without him as it is to say he brought 6/10 of a second, but both may indeed be true...

True, but McLaren stayed faithful to its own ways (twisted as they are), while FA expected McLaren to depart from those ways. Looking at it that way, I think that from both parties, it was FA the one who was more off the mark with his appreciation of the situation.

As for McLaren messing up things well, they didn't manage JPM very well, did they?

[passmeatissue]

Also if the FIA had not interfered in Hungary, Fernando would have won.

However it should be included in the 'what if' scenarios that a designated no2 driver is less motivated and less confident, and sometimes the no1 driver is a bit less flat out as well.

[FIA]

Alonso to Prodrive would be an amazing challenge for Fernando, he is a great driver and I think this season has made him look an idiot. Also imagine if Ralf Schumacher went to McLaren, he still has talent and experience.

[Powered by Cosworth]

From Sniff

http://www.sniffpetrol.com/wp-content/uploads/alonsogoodbye.jpg

Sums it all up :D

[jso1985]

:laugh:

My bet goes to Renault now, FA already know them very well, while Red Bull might be another choice, their lack of reliability could make Alonso think twice before joining them

[Wilderness]

Alonso is not a team player and therefore his work ethics were at odds with the team.

Wherever Alonso ends up in the future, as a result of his behaviour in 2007 the team will certainly know exactly what to expect....

Either they can prepare to roll over to the prima dona's selfish demands or expect a very bumpy ride!

Good Luck to whomever takes him on...heil briatore
Please. I take it you never saw Prost, Piquet or Senna in their primes. FA has proven he CAN deliver.

[Eki]

Alonso to Prodrive would be an amazing challenge for Fernando, he is a great driver and I think this season has made him look an idiot. Also imagine if Ralf Schumacher went to McLaren, he still has talent and experience.
True, but Ralf was only about the match of Montoya, and you know what happened to Montoya.

[BDunnell]

Anyway, would have, could have, should have.. All it amounts to now is a few modal auxiliary verbs. It's good that they've put it behind them and moved on.

:up:

[jas123f1]

Who knows what happen next? I think it will be Renault for Alonso; however Flavio is waiting Alonso’s decision, before he makes his own for the drivers for next season..

[markabilly]

Also if the FIA had not interfered in Hungary, Fernando would have won.

However it should be included in the 'what if' scenarios that a designated no2 driver is less motivated and less confident, and sometimes the no1 driver is a bit less flat out as well.

You mean if LH had not started a stink, that FA would be WDC with those lost points and that the infamous meeting between RD and FA would not have occurred the next morning.........well duh......Rum Dennis and hamster deserve each other

[Thor]

I see him going to Renault,and Heikki Kovalainen next WDC at
McLaren :)

[hugh_lee]

interesting what's going to happen in the next weeks.

i wonder when jenson is gonna do his whining again, now that the mclaren seat is vacant, and proclaim that he wants to leave honda. all about timing, jenson...you never did have that, did you? tsk,tsk

[grantb4]

Now they need to release PDLR and anyone else tainted by the scandal...

[grantb4]

Now they need to release PDLR and anyone else tainted by the scandal...

Though with PDLR they might want to wait until that little matter n Italy is sorted. Disgruntled ex-employee might add fuel to the fire?!

[ozrevhead]

i bet renault... but something is telling me Red Bull....

If that comes of and its Webber that goes... would i want him to go to Mclaren? i dunno.....
pros - reliable fast car where he can show his tallent
cons - RD has from day 1 favored Lewis and will continue to do so

I partly prefer him to go to renault myself - either as a straigt replacement for Fisi or a 3 way swap FA to RB, HK to Merc and Mark to Renault

I heard that as a term of FA being able to walk away is that he cant sign for a manafacturer team? he could sign for 1 year somewhere but who will sign him knowing he might leave again?

[wmcot]

If he wants big money for a year, it will be Toyota. If he wants to help build a team, it could be any of the teams mentioned. My bet is that his future is planned out through 2010 and he will take the year with Toyota for more money than they were paying Ralf. He could be just what they need to get the car set up properly.

I wouldn't doubt a 2009 drive at Ferrari although I can't say I would be overjoyed by it, being a Ferrari fan. :(

[raikk]

Hamilton-Rosberg/Kovvy

[markabilly]

From Sniff

If i'm going to hell, i'm going in a Plymouth


:D
If you are in a plymouth, you are already there

[aryan]

I'm not convinced every team out there would want Alonso. Although a 2 time WDC, he is also disruptive to his teams and demands a level of treatment that some teams may not care provide. I think the "blackmail" incident has dented his reputation further and may affect the level of trust ant new team may bestow upon him.

Seconded. And it is no secret that Jean Todt does not rate Alonso at all. I can definitely see behind the curtains, many disciplined team managers not wanting him in their team because of all the issues (his attitude, demanding preferrntial treatment, showing that he can back stab his employer, etc.) surrounding him.

Having said that, he is still a 2xWDC and a top gun so he should be alright.

It would be hilarious as has been mentioned if he goes to Toyota and Truli beats him again ;) :p

[passmeatissue]

Alonso/Liuzzi at RB
Webber/Piquet at Renault
Hamilton/Kovalainen at Macca
Jense/DC at Honda

[aryan]

It's interesting that apparently the Spanish sponsors are staying at McLaren. Will that affect the choice of the new driver?

Hopefully not. We all know that PDLR is nothing but a test driver. Even Alex Wurz gave better performances when they both replaced JPM.

Anyway... I don't see Kovalainen in McLaren either. Somehow I think Ron will want one of his drivers to have more than one year in F1 for setup. As you've said, it's a pitty that Webber and quick Nick are not in the market when it counts. Especially Nick, as I'm sure McLaren would have definitely had a very favourable look at him this time, seeing that he is German and a former Mercedes protege.

[N. Jones]

Wow! :eek: Three pages of speculation! You all better get something for FA for Christmas/Winter Solstice/whatever you celebrate since he just gave you a big off-season present - something to really talk about!

[passmeatissue]

Hopefully not. We all know that PDLR is nothing but a test driver. Even Alex Wurz gave better performances when they both replaced JPM.

Anyway... I don't see Kovalainen in McLaren either. Somehow I think Ron will want one of his drivers to have more than one year in F1 for setup. As you've said, it's a pitty that Webber and quick Nick are not in the market when it counts. Especially Nick, as I'm sure McLaren would have definitely had a very favourable look at him this time, seeing that he is German and a former Mercedes protege.

Well I sort of agree, though I think Webber would be available if FA goes to RB, but he would respond to Hamilton's extreme competitiveness with his own aggression, giving Ron *another* year of aggravation. Even Ron must feel like a quieter year in 2008 :) . I see Kovy as the only quick driver with a temperament to cope with Lewis and just drive the car, so I think Ron will accept the lack of experience and depend on his engineeers.. Nick Heidfeld would be quickly destroyed mentally, IMO.

[Donney]

Good new for both parties, the speculation won't stop untill we get an official press release form who knows which team. This is going to be the best silly season of all times. :p

I wish Williams found the money to hire him but I doubt it. It looks like RB is the best option but they won't be able to develop the engine at all during the season and I am not sure Alonso will like that. Renault seems like the ideal marriage but apparently they are still investing the same money as they did in 2005 so the rest has to come from big sponsors.... And as said before Toyota has loads of money but lacks technical capabilities.

My bet is on Renault, therefore we would have the three best drivers in the three best cars when the season begins.

[janneppi]

My bet is on Renault, therefore we would have the three best drivers in the three best cars when the season begins.
I'm a bit surprised you concider Nick Heidfeld to be better than Alonso. :p :

[Hondo]

It's got to be a blow to Alonso's ego to be, as a 2 time WDC and possibly in his own mind God's gift to F1 racing, to be released by a team and being basically told "We don't where you go, just go."

Wonder how that will affect him?

[markabilly]

Given that it was FA who wanted to be gone, Very very happy

[ioan]

And as said before Toyota has loads of money but lacks technical capabilities.

Thats certainly not true.
What Toyota lacks is the right management system, cause they certainly have the know how, they are just not using it effectively.

[janneppi]

It's got to be a blow to Alonso's ego to be, as a 2 time WDC and possibly in his own mind God's gift to F1 racing, to be released by a team and being basically told "We don't where you go, just go."

Wonder how that will affect him?
It just might do him good after winning two WDC's to find out he's not the biggest player in the paddocks.

[markabilly]

It just might do him good after winning two WDC's to find out he's not the biggest player in the paddocks.

Nope

it was all about negiotating his way out of there

this deal was probably done sometime back which explained the change in his comments about the team

So much for the threat of "garden leave"

The rest is for public consumption by the gullible

[janneppi]

Ron Dennis knows he doesn't have to keep Alonso away from the tracks as he's not going to be a threat to them next year, Ferrari and BMW are out of Alonso's reach, if he goes to redbull, he'll be racing with Trulli for the tenth place, Renault, despite developing next years car for a long time by now isn't likely to jump up to challenge McLaren.

[ioan]

Ron Dennis knows he doesn't have to keep Alonso away from the tracks as he's not going to be a threat to them next year, Ferrari and BMW are out of Alonso's reach, if he goes to redbull, he'll be racing with Trulli for the tenth place, Renault, despite developing next years car for a long time by now isn't likely to jump up to challenge McLaren.

It's not that McLaren were threatening Ferrari and Renault last season either! ;)

[janneppi]

Yes, well... :p :
One thing though
Bernard Ecclestone must have been busy on the phone to to team bosses trying to find Alonso a proper seat.
He's got two races in spain next year and empty grand stands if the closest thing to a Spanish driver there is Sebastian Vettel. ;)

[Hondo]

Yes, well... :p :
One thing though
Bernard Ecclestone must have been busy on the phone to to team bosses trying to find Alonso a proper seat.
He's got two races in spain next year and empty grand stands if the closest thing to a Spanish driver there is Sebastian Vettel. ;)

Not to mention..."Where's the 12th team you promised to field?" unless Prodrive can come up with a chassis. Maybe they can take some plywood and a nail gun and...

[passmeatissue]

Yes, well... :p :
One thing though
Bernard Ecclestone must have been busy on the phone to to team bosses trying to find Alonso a proper seat.
He's got two races in spain next year and empty grand stands if the closest thing to a Spanish driver there is Sebastian Vettel. ;)

Good point, makes me think of the huge global Hispanic market...I just can't see Dieter Mateschitz *accepting* a loss of this opportunity. Even though reportedly Horner is not that keen, the guy who has built a huge empire by marketing tiny cans of fizzy drink with a lot of caffeine will just keep throwing everything at Fernando until he says "yes".

[Robinho]

Alonso to Red Bull, Webber to Renault, Kovaleinen to Mclaren?

[pino]

According to ital media, by Tuesday, Alonso will say yes or no to Flavio...

[passmeatissue]

Alonso to Red Bull, Webber to Renault, Kovaleinen to Mclaren?

I agree, and a great prospect for us fans. Hopefully Webbo will finally get a reliable car.

If Flav can win the bidding I will be totally awed by his powers of persuasion, the way Renault finished the year.

On tenterhooks till Tuesday, then...

[Zico]

Renault chief Flavio Briatore has offered Fernando Alonso a deal to return to the team which helped him win the 2005 and 2006 world titles.
Alonso has left McLaren and speculation suggests he could move to a team for a year before a switch to Ferrari.

But Briatore says Renault are not prepared to be an interim measure.

"I have presented a project for the future to Fernando," Briatore told Italian sports daily La Gazzetta dello Sport's website

"If his desires coincide with ours, it can happen.

"I know how much he can still give Renault. But an agreement for one year would have no sense with an outlook projected for a period of time."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7076762.stm

[markabilly]

Yes, well... :p :
One thing though
Bernard Ecclestone must have been busy on the phone to to team bosses trying to find Alonso a proper seat.
He's got two races in spain next year and empty grand stands if the closest thing to a Spanish driver there is Sebastian Vettel. ;)

For once you say something with which i can agree--but I said it before and will say it again, the team that right now only needs someone like FA to win WCC and a WDC...remains Beemer

Without a caliber driver like FA, they will be competing for the top of the second tier again...

OTOH--all one has to do is look at Honda and see what happens from one year to the next or look at Mac for the 2006 season compared to 2007

But the real question is whether like JV (or even RS), will FA choose to "cash out" his career by taking the most money he can get from whatever team regadless of the probability of being a winner

[Roamy]

Like which WDC is a team player - Senna, MS, Hak, come on name one.
Show me a good loser and I will show you a "Loser"

Good for FA and **** off Dennis you mental midget. FA got screwed this year but it is OK because Renault was nowhere. Next year we go back to a zero baseline and many teams will have the chance to advance. Look for Kimi and FA to head the new era.

[passmeatissue]

Fernando with Ross Brawn to Toyota???

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63770

Now then...

[airshifter]

I don't care where he goes, other than to find out which seat(s) will remain open. He's willing to cheat, and as far as I'm concerned it confirms a rookie scared him.

I bet he goes for the money over the car.

[markabilly]

It just might do him good after winning two WDC's to find out he's not the biggest player in the paddocks.


Dudes, you all need to go back over that very carefully worded "Joint Statement"

I just did, and after carefully reading it, it is clear that statement was not written in a few minutes, but has all the classic signs of lawyers hammering from two sides to write out all the details...and knowing lawyers, this took weeks to work out, and I suspicion that it was something that happened a month or more ago, along with FA changing his tune, as part of the agreement to say good bye to one another...as in being polite and not one party suing the other party for breach of contract...etc and so forth..... :vader:

As I predicted a month ago, I might add--once again ole markabilly stays clear of the kool aid and sees quite well the hand of the prince.... :D

[markabilly]

I don't care where he goes, other than to find out which seat(s) will remain open. He's willing to cheat, and as far as I'm concerned it confirms a rookie scared him.

I bet he goes for the money over the car.

Well for 20 million a year, I would drive a plymouth........."principles" dont buy groceries

[janneppi]

as far as I'm concerned it confirms a rookie scared him.

IMO either he saw that Hamilton was a match to him speedwise and he couldn't handle it
or
he, a 2 time WDC, a seasoned team leader from Renault couldn't bring the team together as well as a rookie. And instead of trying to turn around the situation he decided to leave the team.

I can't decide which is worse.

Me thinks Alonso showed that he is vulnerable to mind games. You could see it with Hamilton flirting with the british press, little wink of an eye and smile, comments then how one likes the team and and how they all work together.
What does Alonso do the next day, he accuses the team of favouring Hamilton.
It doesn't take much to see who the team likes better. :)

For Alonsos sake I hope he finds a team he can work with and that doesn't expect rational behaviour from ther drivers.

[passmeatissue]

I guess that finally rules out Williams, then!

Apparently (ITV-F1?) he didn't attend McLaren's start-of-season social do, then by the first race was already saying he didn't feel that much part of the team. He is a quiet guy isn't he, goes around without the usual entourage.

And he was up against the exact opposite, Lewis is always the centre of attention and that fits him like a glove.

Still, Renault know Fernando and want him back, so that must say something in his favour. Maybe he'll be so much in need of known faces around him that he'll take Flav's multi-year deal rather than a one-year deal with a new team.

[BDunnell]

I guess that finally rules out Williams, then!

Apparently (ITV-F1?) he didn't attend McLaren's start-of-season social do, then by the first race was already saying he didn't feel that much part of the team. He is a quiet guy isn't he, goes around without the usual entourage.

And he was up against the exact opposite, Lewis is always the centre of attention and that fits him like a glove.

Still, Renault know Fernando and want him back, so that must say something in his favour. Maybe he'll be so much in need of known faces around him that he'll take Flav's multi-year deal rather than a one-year deal with a new team.

As I said earlier in this thread, these things happen at work — a new employee not feeling as comfortable in his new workplace as he did in his old, and it becoming a problem. In this sense, an F1 team is no different to any other workplace, and an F1 driver no different to any other employee.

[Valve Bounce]

Well for 20 million a year, I would drive a plymouth........."principles" dont buy groceries

For 20 million a year, I'd drive an Edsel. :p :

[jens]

Fernando with Ross Brawn to Toyota???

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63770

Now then...

Oh, I would love that... if they won't sack Jarno as a result... :\

Alonso's former teammate at Renault Jarno Trulli revealed Alonso has been in touch with Toyota, giving credence to some rumours that Alonso has asked Toyota to hire former Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn.

"I was immediately informed by phone of the split between Alonso and McLaren," Trulli said. "I know he has spoken to Toyota and has asked for more technicians: it would be great by me..."

Does that indicate that he is confident he won't be sacked if those moves become true? :)

Funny, Ross Brawn has been associated with both Red Bull and Toyota.

But I think we won't get any answers before Tuesday, when Alonso has promised to answer whether he accepts Renault's offer or not.

[BDunnell]

I am intrigued by the openness being displayed by others regarding Alonso's approaches to different teams and their approaches to him. Contract negotiations by media, or a bit of game-playing, or both?

[passmeatissue]

I am intrigued by the openness being displayed by others regarding Alonso's approaches to different teams and their approaches to him. Contract negotiations by media, or a bit of game-playing, or both?

Yes, see what you mean. Alonso's management, stirring up a bidding frenzy? (they hope!) Flav saying, as you suggest in the other thread, he's not playing.

[markabilly]

Next thing you will see on ebay:

"For sale, one slightly used two time WDC, still in his prime, willing to do whatever it takes to win, cross any boundaries, as long as he is number 1. Requires special maintance and care, as known to bite hand that feeds him, when his care does not make him happy. Does NOT play well with other children and refuses to share his computer games with teammates. When properly groomed, capable of being unbeatable even by 7 times WDC.

Wire bank transfers only.

Sold as is, where is, no refunds."

[passmeatissue]

Oh, I would love that... if they won't sack Jarno as a result... :\

Alonso's former teammate at Renault Jarno Trulli revealed Alonso has been in touch with Toyota, giving credence to some rumours that Alonso has asked Toyota to hire former Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn.

"I was immediately informed by phone of the split between Alonso and McLaren," Trulli said. "I know he has spoken to Toyota and has asked for more technicians: it would be great by me..."

Does that indicate that he is confident he won't be sacked if those moves become true? :) .

Fernando has made his teammate such a problem, you have to think that Jarno being there is a key factor in the deal :) .

[TMorel]

>>Jarno being there is a key factor in the deal.

I thought he'd had enough of teammates who were faster than him?

[Fallingwater]

At least he has the comfort of knowing a "faster teammate" can't score more points than him at the end of a year. :rolleyes:
Raw speed just isn't enough sometimes.

[Valve Bounce]

At least he has the comfort of knowing a "faster teammate" can't score more points than him at the end of a year. :rolleyes:
Raw speed just isn't enough sometimes.

I don't understand this post at all. While I have followed Jarno's career, initially with great anticipation and later just because I always thought he was a decent guy who sometimes drove fast for the duration of the whole race, I fail to see how Fernando can be regarded as someone who only has raw speed but that isn't enough. The guy didn't win two WDC's simply on raw speed and not enough of anything else.

[GRAVETT]

I for one ( a former alonso supporter ) could'nt care less which team he ends up driving for ( and eventually screwing over ) I'd rather never see the petulant little boy in F1 again, he has shown his true colours, a truely awe-inspiring talent behind the wheel and a devious, underhand brat away from it.
2 WDC he may have but I hope to god not another single championship point.

[aryan]

I don't understand this post at all. While I have followed Jarno's career, initially with great anticipation and later just because I always thought he was a decent guy who sometimes drove fast for the duration of the whole race, I fail to see how Fernando can be regarded as someone who only has raw speed but that isn't enough. The guy didn't win two WDC's simply on raw speed and not enough of anything else.

I think his comment was directed towards Truli not Alonso, to which I would respond:

[aryan]

At least he has the comfort of knowing a "faster teammate" can't score more points than him at the end of a year. :rolleyes:


You will find that upon being discharged from Renault 3 races from the end of the season, Truli had more points than Alonso; 46 vs. 45 to be exact.

Alonso was biting dust in the first half of the season, then Truli stoped scoring from mid point, but in history books: Truli beat Alonso in 2004, points wise.

[Valve Bounce]

I think his comment was directed towards Truli not Alonso, to which I would respond:

DUH!!. what was I thinking?? :confused:

But you are right, Trulli was doing well until he incurred Sleazy Flav's ire in the French GP when he let somebody through with an easy pass.

[wmcot]

Looks like Lewis gets to help pick out his new team mate:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/03112007/4/hamilton-names-alonso-s-replacement.html

[pino]

DUH!!. what was I thinking?? :confused:

But you are right, Trulli was doing well until he incurred Sleazy Flav's ire in the French GP when he let somebody through with an easy pass.

That wasn't the reason, the reason was because Jarno didn't want to resign the contract with Flavio...

[Valve Bounce]

I'll tell you what I have felt for a long time: Fisi is a better driver than Flavio has allowed him to be.

[Kevincal]

Alonso should try Renault for a year and if it doesn't work out, just retire... If he finishes in the top 3 WDC in '08, he should stick around. ;)

[raikk]

Looks like Lewis gets to help pick out his new team mate:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/03112007/4/hamilton-names-alonso-s-replacement.html

excelent :D .. although I think Sutil needs a bit more time with a more competative team before he goes to Mclaren... between Rosberg and Kovalainen

[Ranger]

excelent :D .. although I think Sutil needs a bit more time with a more competative team before he goes to Mclaren... between Rosberg and Kovalainen

But that was just his guess, not a refined list as many sites are suggesting.

[raikk]

But that was just his guess, not a refined list as many sites are suggesting.

think about it though... who else would Mclaren choose? the list of UFA drivers this year is slim in talent and I don't think any would make Dennis's list.. Mclaren will have to steal one of em.. thinking about it more it would probally be Kovi,, Rosberg will give you more reward but is more $$$$$..Sutil is relativly unproven..

[Ranger]

think about it though... who else would Mclaren choose? the list of UFA drivers this year is slim in talent and I don't think any would make Dennis's list.. Mclaren will have to steal one of em.. thinking about it more it would probally be Kovi,, Rosberg will give you more reward but is more $$$$$..Sutil is relativly unproven..

Heidfeld and Webber are names that are also floating around, they both have contracts but what does that mean these days. Anything can happen when half of the grid are possible opportunities for a champ in November. However, the point is that Hamilton was guessing and so the other McLaren driver isn't definitively one of those three.

[ShiftingGears]

I'll tell you what I have felt for a long time: Fisi is a better driver than Flavio has allowed him to be.

How do you figure?

[Valve Bounce]

How do you figure?

I think the glove throwing incident followed by Flavio's harsh words was one case. I suspected already that Alonso was the annointed one and Fisi, especially when he declined to re-sign with Flav became the unchosen one. Just a feeling on my part, I admit.

[passmeatissue]

Now it's Fernando and Ross to Red Bull...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,2204858,00.html

Can't see that being for one year, though.

[aryan]

DUH!!. what was I thinking?? :confused:

But you are right, Trulli was doing well until he incurred Sleazy Flav's ire in the French GP when he let somebody through with an easy pass.

Barichello. Last lap. Flav basically threw Truli out back then and there.

Wonder why the same thing didn't happen to Fisichella when he was passed by Kimi at the last lap(s) in Suzuka.

[aryan]

That wasn't the reason, the reason was because Jarno didn't want to resign the contract with Flavio...

Yupp, you're right. Flav's favourite drivers are always his own drivers, and he has himself stated that he has no problems giving a driver preferential treatment (guess which driver is going to gett that?)

Speaking of conflict of interest...

I agree with Valve. Fisi's career was distinguished until he came to Renault. Have we all forgotten how he trashed and decimated Massa in Sauber, just before moving to Renault? The same Massa that is now being hailed as Massa the Great by some? Other beaten Fisico team mates include: Button, Ralf Schumacher, Firman, Wurz, Sato. Indeed he beat every single one of his team mates before moving to Renault.

Fisi won Australia in 2005 and everyone was expecting him to be the title challenger. I remember Todt saying that they were expecting the Italian to win multiple races that season. Then... reliability problems in Malaysia... and before you know, the the Golden boy (who had flav as his manager) was leading the championship, in what clearly was the fastest car of the grid in the first half of 2005.


I'm not trying to take anything away from Alonso, and I know that this comment will offend many. But I've always felt Truli and Fisico were given unfavourable treatment in Renault by Flav, simply because unlike Heiki and Alonso, they refused to let Flav manage them. Simple as that!

[jso1985]

I really don't think Fisi "trashed" Massa in 2004, as I remember he was actually way off Felipe's pace during the 3-4 first races.
He lost the championship lead in 2005 when he thought It'd be a good idea to block Heidfeld in dangerous way and lose that valuable 3rd place in Malaysia... from what I saw that year besides the Canadian GP, Fisi never showed like he could win a race again

[Valve Bounce]

I really don't think Fisi "trashed" Massa in 2004, as I remember he was actually way off Felipe's pace during the 3-4 first races.
He lost the championship lead in 2005 when he thought It'd be a good idea to block Heidfeld in dangerous way and lose that valuable 3rd place in Malaysia... from what I saw that year besides the Canadian GP, Fisi never showed like he could win a race again

Massa was green and lack of experience showed in his racing then. Even his first year at Ferrari was not memorable, but last year Massa acquitted himself very well. I expect him to improve still, and become a force at the top end of the championships next season together with Kimi.

[leopard]

I'd support Alonso to drive back Renault with ING stay sponsoring them, or drive for Japanese car, either Toyota or Honda.
Finishing third on the Toyota or Honda would be a significant and awesome progress for the team, preferably better than third, The are moving forward and have the power of dream, why not. :cool:

[Valve Bounce]

I'd support Alonso to drive back Renault with ING stay sponsoring them, or drive for Japanese car, either Toyota or Honda.
Finishing third on the Toyota or Honda would be a significant and awesome progress for the team, preferably better than third, The are moving forward and have the power of dream, why not. :cool:

For Honda to come third, they'd have to beat Super Aguri first of all. :p :
Quite seriously, Honda has as much chance of coming third as I have of winning the Olympic Gold for the Men's Downhill.

[Ranger]

Then... reliability problems in Malaysia...

The only reliability problem Fisi had in Malaysia '05 was between the seat and the steering wheel when he managed to spin out and hit Webber when he was given a mile of room not to.

[leopard]

For Honda to come third, they'd have to beat Super Aguri first of all. :p :
Quite seriously, Honda has as much chance of coming third as I have of winning the Olympic Gold for the Men's Downhill.
It isn't supposed to be a really big deal. Honda won in Hungary 2006, they only need consistency and make repetition of it. :-?

[Valve Bounce]

It isn't supposed to be a really big deal. Honda won in Hungary 2006, they only need consistency and make repetition of it. :-?

At the moment, a miracle wouldn't make them win. Consistency would keep them behind Super Aguri.

[leopard]

At the moment, a miracle wouldn't make them win. Consistency would keep them behind Super Aguri.
True, at the moment...

[jens]

The only reliability problem Fisi had in Malaysia '05 was between the seat and the steering wheel when he managed to spin out and hit Webber when he was given a mile of room not to.

Fisichella was comfortably running third before some parts of his car flew away, which slowed him down and created a train, which consisted of Williamses and Ralf. As the car didn't handle in the perfect way any more, then I guess that probably it may have played a part in that collision too.

[aryan]

I really don't think Fisi "trashed" Massa in 2004, as I remember he was actually way off Felipe's pace during the 3-4 first races.



Let's just make sure we are on the same page here:

Fisico Vs. Massa

Points 22 Vs. 12
Finishing Position : 14 Vs. 4
Qualification : 11 Vs. 7
Fastest Lap : 13 Vs. 5

First Four races finishing position:

Fisico Vs. Massa

Australia
10 Vs. DNF
Malaysia
11 Vs. 8
Bahrain:
11 Vs. 12
San Marino:
9 Vs. 10 (Fisi starting from the back of the grid)

Keep in mind, the 2004 Sauber was a disguised Ferrari, a car Massa had tested the previous year for Ferrari. He was also familiar with the team, having raced there in 2002. Fisichella was new to both the car, and the team.

Perhaps I'm taking this off topic now. I'll stop. This is my last post in this regard. We all have our favourite drivers and our own version of the history books, and well... at the end of the day, Massa is a potential future WDC while Fisichella is passé and démodé. That's how the world works :mad:

[passmeatissue]

Wonder why the same thing didn't happen to Fisichella when he was passed by Kimi at the last lap(s) in Suzuka.

I think this is why Ron wouldn't hire Fisi, despite his physical skills and experience. That defensive line into the chicane when he did not need it said that he was afraid. Ron would rather have Sutil's mistakes than that.

[Valve Bounce]

I think this is why Ron wouldn't hire Fisi, despite his physical skills and experience. That defensive line into the chicane when he did not need it said that he was afraid. Ron would rather have Sutil's mistakes than that.

Oh Really!! :rolleyes:

[passmeatissue]

Oh Really!! :rolleyes:

Well go on then, argue it :) . Two laps running he took the defensive line in when Kimi wasn't actually close enough to challenge, consequently he was slow out, and a sitting duck down the straight. It was victim behaviour. I seem to recall shots of Flav looking pretty unimpressed.

Ron might yet make an idiot of me, but in the meantime?

[Garry Walker]

Fisichella was comfortably running third before some parts of his car flew away, which slowed him down and created a train, which consisted of Williamses and Ralf. As the car didn't handle in the perfect way any more, then I guess that probably it may have played a part in that collision too.

Those parts flew off because he went off track.
In any case, before he had his problem, his pace compared to Alonso was pathetic.

The collision was 100% fisis fault, Webbo should have known he was driving against a mentally fragile driver.


Oh Really!! :rolleyes:

Yes.
Fisis driving at Suzuka in 2005 highlighted well why he would never be a champion. He is just mentally too fragile.
Schumacher in the same race, in a much slower car compared to Fisi, held off Alonso and Kimi for a long long time, whereas Fisi couldnt do it for 2 laps.

[Valve Bounce]

Well go on then, argue it :) . Two laps running he took the defensive line in when Kimi wasn't actually close enough to challenge, consequently he was slow out, and a sitting duck down the straight. It was victim behaviour. I seem to recall shots of Flav looking pretty unimpressed.

Ron might yet make an idiot of me, but in the meantime?

We're talking about Sutil here!! Sutil would probably run into the back of Kimi putting them both off the track.

I think Sutil is not as great a driver as he thinks he is. There are other drivers in F1 who are much better than Sutil.

[passmeatissue]

We're talking about Sutil here!! Sutil would probably run into the back of Kimi putting them both off the track.

I think Sutil is not as great a driver as he thinks he is. There are other drivers in F1 who are much better than Sutil.

Ah, OK, the previous posts were about Fisi, well anyway I don't disagree too much with that, he's been very inconsistent (though doing the first year in a bad car is a lot more difficult). I was using him to show how unlikely I think Fisi is to get the McLaren seat.

[Valve Bounce]

Ah, OK, the previous posts were about Fisi, well anyway I don't disagree too much with that, he's been very inconsistent (though doing the first year in a bad car is a lot more difficult). I was using him to show how unlikely I think Fisi is to get the McLaren seat.

Well, Sutil was consistant in one way: he ran into ant in the first race, then to put the icing on his consistancy, repeated the trick in the last race.

But as far as Fisi is concerned, you may be right that he won't get the McLaren seat. In fact, if Alonso returns to Flav, I would not be surprised if Fisi gets shoved aside.

[jens]

We should have heard "big news" by Tuesday, but nothing has happened. Instead of that there is silence? Will Alonso return to Renault then? At least rumours tell so:

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/11/07/alonso-to-join-piquet-at-renault/

[ArrowsFA1]

...if Alonso returns to Flav, I would not be surprised if Fisi gets shoved aside.
That prediction seems to be on the money according to Briatore (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64054).

On Monday he said:

"Renault will definitely have different drivers next year. There is a 60 per cent chance Alonso will be with us...Between today and the day after tomorrow it will be decided."

Today being Wednesday we may know soon... :crazy: :eek:

[Mark]

Well Briatore will know soon, we might have to wait somewhat longer!

Today being Wednesday we may know soon... :crazy: :eek:

Today is Tuesday.

[ArrowsFA1]

Today is Tuesday.
So it is. Well done.

[SGWilko]

Today is Tuesday.

Please do not read this till 21st November.

Your comment above is not correct.

Ahem.

;)

[rabf1]

This stuff about Alonso insisting on a 1 year deal so he can go to Ferrari in 09 makes no sense to me but this rumour has persisted so long that it makes me think there is something there. When is Kimi's contract up with Ferrari? If Ferrari wanted ALonso, why not just sign him now and let Massa go? Is it possible that Kimi does not have a long-term future at Ferrari?

[GP-M3]

This stuff about Alonso insisting on a 1 year deal so he can go to Ferrari in 09 makes no sense to me but this rumour has persisted so long that it makes me think there is something there. When is Kimi's contract up with Ferrari? If Ferrari wanted ALonso, why not just sign him now and let Massa go? Is it possible that Kimi does not have a long-term future at Ferrari?

I'm with you. I can't imagine Ferrari wanting Alonso. And why would Alonso want to have Kimi as a teammate, that would surely be worse (from his perspective) than Hamilton.

Kimi is signed thru next year, with a Ferrari option for him in 2009 (afaik). I would think Kimi is racing in 2009. So it would likely be for Ferrari, and if they are winning with Kimi, why would the want to rock the boat and change.

In addition MS said he was 'sorry' for Alonso fans, as Fernando wouldn't be driving for Ferrari for a least a few years.

[leopard]

Who would want to drive Ferrari,

Driving a single season at Renault will enable him come back again at the more competitive McLaren and regain the contract of £34.7m They would have learned from experience to shape better combination. Constructive reconciliation :)