Cost of F1GP too costly for Melbourne???

[Livewireshock]

It has been reported today that the Australian F1GP in Melbourne brought in revenue of about $75 million but that still left a shortfall of $37 million that has to be paid for by the Victorian Government in order to cover the costs of actually hosting the event. After the government also lost $10 million on hosting the World Swimming Championships this year, if the fortunes of the Albert Park event do not improve, then the contract may not be re-newed beyond 2010.

Naturally this does not take in the total worth & expenditure by the F1 circus & fans during the event. This is in the hundreds of millions of dollars for the Victorian economy but it has shrunk dramatically in recent years. Mr Ecclestone's hand is always out too, automatically increasing the fee annually required to host an event.

But F1 may not be lost to Australia. There is a new F1 licensed circuit being built in Queensland that would love to step in & take over from where Melbourne left off. Yet another Tilke design. Adelaide is happy with the Clipsal 500 touring car race that replaced the F1 street battle & not overly interested in taking the GP back.

[Valve Bounce]

Do you have more info on the track in Qld and where it is located? Thanks if you can give me a heads up.

[Ari]

I don't have any more detail on the track in QLD but I did hear about it a while back also. I heard that they were looking to put in a bid for F1 based on designs and if the bid were accepted they would go ahead and build the circuit.

While I live only a stones throw from the F1 track in Melbourne I strongly believe that it should move upto QLD. I think the Melbourne folk have probably had enough for now. Take it up north for 10 years then bring it back again when everyones mouths are watering and the want is there again.

People get bored with it. GP's are not paid for by the die-hards like us who post here, but by the average Joe who rocks up on F1 weekend. The average Joe is telling us "oh yeah, I went to the F1 a few years back... it was alright.... but prolly won't go again".

Live the GP run elsewhere then bring it back to Melbourne. If it's lost to Australia it might be some time till we get it back again at all. As for QLD GP.... I would happily do the travel.

[aryan]

And I've said time and time again on this forum, that the total value of what the F1GP bings to the Victorian economy is immeasurable. The $75 million quoted is in direct revenue, the F1 GP adds so much to the attraction of the city of Melbourne that it you can't put a figure on it.

Tiger airlines based their HQ in Melbourne, due to "the number of events taking place in this city"; and they have already created more than a 1,000 direct jobs in the Victorian market. Just one example of the top of my head. Did they take all these indirect contributions as well when they came up with that number?

[edv]

There is nothing on Tilke's official website about this Queensland project.

[Ari]

And I've said time and time again on this forum, that the total value of what the F1GP bings to the Victorian economy is immeasurable. The $75 million quoted is in direct revenue, the F1 GP adds so much to the attraction of the city of Melbourne that it you can't put a figure on it.

Tiger airlines based their HQ in Melbourne, due to "the number of events taking place in this city"; and they have already created more than a 1,000 direct jobs in the Victorian market. Just one example of the top of my head. Did they take all these indirect contributions as well when they came up with that number?

Two words. Labor Government.

[waitey]

And I've said time and time again on this forum, that the total value of what the F1GP bings to the Victorian economy is immeasurable. The $75 million quoted is in direct revenue, the F1 GP adds so much to the attraction of the city of Melbourne that it you can't put a figure on it.

Tiger airlines based their HQ in Melbourne, due to "the number of events taking place in this city"; and they have already created more than a 1,000 direct jobs in the Victorian market. Just one example of the top of my head. Did they take all these indirect contributions as well when they came up with that number?

Exactly, unfortunately we can't accurately measure that. I still think everyone knows it brings in so much value to the city and country, the GP is such a vital thing to have for a city, Melbourne should be doing everything they can to keep it. Unfortunately, (I love australia but...) people in this country seem to attack so many different things and it really pisses me off, they just have an obsession with attacking things and want change, the thing is, if we lost the GP, all those same people saying yeah its not good for the city would then turn around and want it back saying we are an events and sporting city we need the GP. Idiots. We in Melbourne don't understand how lucky we are to have this event. IT IS HUGE. It brings in so much more money that people just forget about it, they look at the figures which of course are going to show a loss, it is like that for every GP. Get some brains and think about the REAL value it brings to Melbourne and Australia, it brings so much more.

If they lose the GP, i will be extremely, extremely angry and it will be an absolute joke.

[millencolin]

Do you have more info on the track in Qld and where it is located? Thanks if you can give me a heads up.

i've got some info... but there isnt a lot and im very skeptical about his track ever coming along


http://www.imett.com.au/location.html


basically its halfway between Brisbane and the GoldCoast

[Ranger]

i've got some info... but there isnt a lot and im very skeptical about his track ever coming along


http://www.imett.com.au/location.html


basically its halfway between Brisbane and the GoldCoast

Yeah, with a cost of $650 million to boot - which is pretty obscene even by F1 standards. :\

[millencolin]

Yeah, with a cost of $650 million to boot - which is pretty obscene even by F1 standards. :\

i wrote an e-mail to these guys to enquire about some work experience (cause im doing business/sports management at uni) and so far i've heard nothing....

Most companies write back within a week or so, but these guys, nothing. who would turn down free work :p :

so thats why i'm a little suspect about this actually coming off. but i really hope it does! trust me, go to Willowbank and then you'll know why i'm so hopeful that this actually gets built

[ShiftingGears]

Also its worth remembering that there was an absense of V8 supercars this year, which definitely plays a part.

However Bernie is pushing for a night race at Albert Park, which is close to residential areas. You'd get overwhelming local support for that...

If the Queensland track doesn't materialise then I have to say I can't imagine there being an Australian Grand Prix from 2011 onwards.

[Daniel]

Those guys in Queensland are smoking something potent. They're going to have great difficulty in getting the WRC event when it goes down to 12 events and rotation comes into force it won't be enough to maintain an expensive venue like what they're proposing when they'll only have one or two big events each year and the WRC won't be every year....

Then they're going to build a big expensive circuit. This isn't Bahrain which is just spending it's oil money because they've run out of space to store it. It's Australia and there isn't a huge glut of money sitting in state or federal coffers to pour into something that's not really essential for the country.

I can't help but think that this is all doomed from the start. It just sounds a little grand. What's wrong with temporary super specials and upgrading existing tracks to suit F1? It works elsewhere. Why try and be different. This is going to sink faster than the Titanic if it does go ahead.

For sale: Tilke designed circuit and purpose built rally stages. Hardly used. Genuine reason for sale (not commercially viable)

[Valve Bounce]

Also its worth remembering that there was an absense of V8 supercars this year, which definitely plays a part.

However Bernie is pushing for a night race at Albert Park, which is close to residential areas. You'd get overwhelming local support for that...

If the Queensland track doesn't materialise then I have to say I can't imagine there being an Australian Grand Prix from 2011 onwards.

OK, I know where Yatala is - and I remember when this first hit the forum months ago. I don't know who is going to trump up 650 million bucks, but I did post then that the owners would require a lot more use out of this place to make it pay.

I cannot see the viability or practically of a night race at Albert Park simply because of the noise in the residential area, not to mention the old folks home next to Gasworks Park.

I do think that the cost escalation surprised me, and the cost of getting into the grandstand at the end of the pits would just about buy me a new bike. If ant get's a good drive next year, I might turn up. Otherwise, I might just watch it on the telly. :(

[BobbyC]

Bernie is huge on wanting everything that the local track owners get not a dime. That's why Tony George isn't wanting F1 at the Brickyard -- Bernie gets everything in advertising and sponsorship, and the only money you can make from the track is ticket sales.

[Ranger]

Here's food for thought, even though the reports are probably absolute junk:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2843462,00.html

Bernie wants Surfers Paradise for the Oz GP
Friday 2nd November 2007

Bernie Ecclestone has reportedly asked the Queensland government to host the Australian GP in Surfers Paradise.


According to reports earlier this week, Melbourne's grand prix is in financial trouble after running at a loss for the past few seasons.


A report which appeared in Victorian state's parliament showed that the race made a $34 million loss this season; which is $12m worse than that of a year earlier and $21m worse than in 2005. The losses were attributed to dwindling ticket sales and sponsorship revenue.


Melbourne, however, still has a contract to host the race until 2010 although former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett reckons that will be the final Australian GP to be held at Albert Park.


"I do believe that the Labor government is preparing to end Melbourne's involvement with the grand prix after this contract finishes," he told the Australian Daily Telegraph.


"My bet will be that the government will renege on this contract in 2010."


It appears Ecclestone fears the same as the F1 supremo has reportedly targeted Surfers Paradise, which hosts the Gold Coast Indy race, as the next venue for the Australian F1 GP.


And according to the newspaper, the Bligh government has said they will give "appropriate consideration" to any proposal put forward by Ecclestone but that they are reluctant to take on "someone else's $35 million bill."

[ShiftingGears]

Surfers Paradise is a fantastic circuit. It'd be great for F1...I dont know if it'd be great for the fans though. Surfers already has a great atmospheric event there.

[millencolin]

i dont want f1 to come to surfers... Surfers is great because most of the crowd isnt there for racing, they are there to get drunk and rowdy. This might sound odd, but if F1 came, there would be too many racing fans there and the event would become more boring.

Surfers is my event, leave it the way it is...

[Daniel]

i dont want f1 to come to surfers... Surfers is great because most of the crowd isnt there for racing, they are there to get drunk and rowdy. This might sound odd, but if F1 came, there would be too many racing fans there and the event would become more boring.

Surfers is my event, leave it the way it is...
They'd still have the Indy there separately.......

[Ranger]

They'd still have the Indy there separately.......

I'd highly doubt it.

[aryan]

For sale: Tilke designed circuit and purpose built rally stages. Hardly used. Genuine reason for sale (not commercially viable)

Totally agree. Australia is not Spa or Nurburgring, there are only so many races which are going to come own under and it does not make financial sense to invest $650 into building a race track which is going to be used maybe twice a year.

I better attend the last 3 Australian GPs.

[markabilly]

So now Australia seems headed the way of Indy...perhaps it is not too late to have bernie made a partner in some race track so he can dip from both sides like Turkey..otherwise bernie will find some other country to host it that does not ban Ferrari from having Marlboro written all over their cars.......

[BrentJackson]

Everywhere that isn't swimming in oil money is too expensive for Bernie. Canada's GP on the rocks too for that same reason, right after the US goes. Brazil has money troubles too, are we gonna end up with NO F1 races in the Western Hemisphere?

Now Australia too. That figures, doesn't it? He's obviously banking on a big fat check from the governments, isn't he?

[millencolin]

They'd still have the Indy there separately.......

nah mate there is no way they council and local residents would allow the horror traffic jams that come with hosting a motorsport event on surfers paradise to happen twice. thats all you hear about every year down the coast, local residents being p*ssed off because Surfers Paradise becomes gridlock

I dont see why they keep complaining about it... have you seen traffic in Surfers Paradise on a normal day? its a freakin nightmare!!!!! Gold Coast in general has terrible traffic infrastructure

[Ranger]

First dirt oval in F1? :s hock: :laugh:


Organisers of the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne are secretly contemplating moving the race from Albert Park to a famous nearby horse racing venue to save money, according to a media source.

The commercial television station Nine said the plan, following revelations that the cost of the current temporary street venue south of Melbourne is worsening every year, could save the Victorian government up to $20 million annually.

The venue under discussion is Flemington Racecourse, which on Tuesday staged the world-famous horse race the Melbourne Cup.


The local network said the plan was discussed last week between race promoter Ron Walker, who travelled to London, and F1 Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone.

So secret were the plans, Nine claims, that the state government or the Victoria (horse) Racing Club had not considered the proposal.

Melbourne's current Grand Prix contract runs until 2010.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071107103512.shtml

[aryan]

hmmm, bring out the one-off WRC cars, will ya?

It does show Channel Nine's [lack] of F1 knowledge, that's all I can say.

[millencolin]

well tahts been shut down by the VRC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/08/2084961.htm



VRC rubbishes Grand Prix Flemington move
Posted 2 hours 50 minutes ago


The Victoria Racing Club (VRC) says claims that Melbourne's Australian Formula One Grand Prix could be moved to Flemington race course are "fanciful".

Reports today say Grand Prix organisers have held talks with senior racing officials about moving the event to the race track to cut costs.

Victorian Premier John Brumby says he has no knowledge of the proposal.

"It's got great merit as a horseracing track, and certainly it's a fantastic venue for the Spring Racing Carnival," he said.

"But really there haven't been discussions and I'm not going to pre-empt those in any way shape or form or offer a personal opinion on that."

The State Government contributed almost $35 million to ensure this year's Grand Prix broke even.

VRC chief executive Stephen Allanson says he would have known about plans to move the event to Flemington if they existed.

"Flemington is Crown land, however," he said. "It is operated by the Victoria Racing Club and there are up to 850 horses stabled at Flemington."

"I am sure the VRC would have a bit to say about a Grand Prix going on in a horse precinct."

[Valve Bounce]

well tahts been shut down by the VRC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/08/2084961.htm

Wel, there are certainly issues here that have to be addressed. Flemington is the training ground for around 880 racehorses stabled there as well as the venue of the most important races in Australia.

I don't know how much of the beautiful existing racecourse would be permanently changed by the construction of a permanent race track that would use existing grandstands and other ammenities.

The disruption of more than 3 months at Albert Park in the erection and subsequent removal of various grandstands and ammenities and safety fences and run off areas and would mean a very serious disruption to the horse training and racing facility.

Transportation is excellent, it is very close to the CBD, and this would be an advantage.

However, to be realistic, I can see there would be very strenuous objections to the lengthy disruption to this facillity.

[millencolin]

I dont see the old timers at Flemington wanting their racing facility turned into a part horse part car racing venue.... They've already done that with Sandown.

[Daniel]

nah mate there is no way they council and local residents would allow the horror traffic jams that come with hosting a motorsport event on surfers paradise to happen twice. thats all you hear about every year down the coast, local residents being p*ssed off because Surfers Paradise becomes gridlock

I dont see why they keep complaining about it... have you seen traffic in Surfers Paradise on a normal day? its a freakin nightmare!!!!! Gold Coast in general has terrible traffic infrastructure
Like I say I don't see them giving up the indy ;) It'll be a case of the Indy and F1 or the Indy and nothing.

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63860


Yes please!


But...that probably means tightening corners and generally making it uglier. Still, its a great racing circuit. It's flowing, undulating, and would probably be the fastest circuit on the calendar.

[AJP]

I'd love it if they went to Phillip Island. The track would need to be lengthened and the run off tidied up, but what a great place for an F1 event.

[ShiftingGears]

I'd love it if they went to Phillip Island. The track would need to be lengthened


Does anyone know what the lap time regulations are, if any?

Because I can see short lap times being a major issue, especially with pit strategies and the blue flag rule.

[Valve Bounce]

My only concern is the access to the region for an F1 crowd. But do admit that it has been a long time since I went there. maybe some of the guys here can give us more info.

[ShiftingGears]

My only concern is the access to the region for an F1 crowd. But do admit that it has been a long time since I went there. maybe some of the guys here can give us more info.

MotoGP hauled in a helluva lot of spectators, so I don't think it would be a concern at all.

[ArrowsFA1]

Bernie is huge on wanting everything that the local track owners get not a dime. That's why Tony George isn't wanting F1 at the Brickyard -- Bernie gets everything in advertising and sponsorship, and the only money you can make from the track is ticket sales.
The likes of China and Turkey have been happy to sign up in order to have the prestiege of hosting the F1 circus, but in time you have to wonder if a few years down the line, having benefitted initially, they too will struggle to justify the kind of continued outlay that is needed to hang on to their event.

As long as there are 'new' locations wanting to buy into F1 then Bernie can 'threaten' existing venues with the loss of their race.

[datto57]

MotoGP hauled in a helluva lot of spectators, so I don't think it would be a concern at all.

Never tried to get out of there after the V8 Supercars have you, absolute nightmare. :rolleyes:

The bikes are easier as most are on bikes and a lot camp there until the next day.

[AndyRAC]

Never tried to get out of there after the V8 Supercars have you, absolute nightmare. :rolleyes:

The bikes are easier as most are on bikes and a lot camp there until the next day.

That's not the image Bernie wants for F1, Speccies camping, how quaint!! F1 fans lap it up in luxury 5* hotels!!

[AJP]

The beauty of having the race at Phillip Island, is that Lindsay Fox and his son, are absolute car fanatics. Lindsay has one of the most impressive car collections out there, and his love for the sport would only show if he had a chance to spend his mega dollars on the upgrade for the circuit.

[Valve Bounce]

Never tried to get out of there after the V8 Supercars have you, absolute nightmare. :rolleyes:

The bikes are easier as most are on bikes and a lot camp there until the next day.

Unfortunately, access to Philip Island is only from one direction - North. There is no train to this track, and for GP fans, access will mostly be by car, supplemented by bikes and the few busses. Unless access can be improved drastically (as I just found out), it will be one helluva mess trying to get a crowd similar to what we get at Albert Park to and from the track.

Albert Park is not that great a problem because there are tram lines going there from both sides of the circuit, with plentiful supply of free trams.