Bad day for 'Mad Monk' Abbott.

[Camelopard]

It's been a very bad day one of the Australian Prime Minister's favoured, Tony Abbott, after a couple of major gaffs today during electioning for the upcoming Australian Federal election. Firstly he wasn't at his office when a delegation led by an anti abestos campaigner and terminally ill Asbestosis sufferer Bernie Banton tried to present a petition at his office this morning, even though it alledgedly had been been previously agreed that he (Abbott) would be there to receive it.
Abbott was forced to apologise to Bernie after accusing him of pulling an election stunt and questioning the dying man's integrity. This apology alledgedly came after a rebuke from the Prime Minister John Howard.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22678482-662,00.html

Abbott was due to debate the Labor Parth Health spokesperson Nicola Roxon at the National Press Club, however he showed total disdain for his opponent and the assembled media and live television audience by arriving half an hour late.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/31/2077218.htm?section=justin

To compound issues he was caught on tape swearing at Nicola Roxon after their 'debate'.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/31/2077872.htm?section=justin

This is from someone who at one stage was regarded by John Howard as the natural successor to him as Prime Minister and a man who had been training to become a priest.

[Daniel]

I don't see the issue with swearing once or twice :mark:

I personally don't think Labor have had any proper policies since Keating was turfed out. All it has been was negative politics.

[Azumanga Davo]

Tony Abbott and Peter Costello. Who's on first? :D

[rah]

I don't see the issue with swearing once or twice :mark:

I personally don't think Labor have had any proper policies since Keating was turfed out. All it has been was negative politics.

I don't mind polies swearing a little.

I don't know how you could say that about labour without saying it about liberal. They are just about the same.

[Azumanga Davo]

I don't mind polies swearing a little.

I don't know how you could say that about labour without saying it about liberal. They are just about the same.

I do mind when the minister in question has very little respect for his portfolio or his job in question.

I think it's high time Tony had a taste of Opposition bench for a bit, or better still, have to find a proper job after the election when he is booted out.

[Daniel]

I don't mind polies swearing a little.

I don't know how you could say that about labour without saying it about liberal. They are just about the same.

True comments both of them :)

I guess I still resent Labor (get the spelling right :p ) for their mindless GST slur campaign. I preferred Hewson to Howard and I saw the merits of a GST (That the Democrats didn't screw up with mindless complications) and if not for Labor going "oooooh GST bad" Hewson would have been PM.

[Camelopard]

The liberals (conservatives) won the last 2 elections with scare campaigns and in particular the last focusing on high interest rates under the previous labor govt. One of their advertisements had little johhny saying that we could trust the liberals to keep interest rates low. This has come back to bite him big time as interest rates have gone up (I think) 8 times with the odds on another rate rise next tuesday.
Whilst a lot of the policies of the 2 parties are very similar, the feeling I'm getting from listening to the radio and watching TV is that people want a change.
Due to redistributions little johhny could possibly be only the second prime mister to lose his seat, which if it happens will be great, at least then we may have a prime minister who is prepared to live in the official prime minister's lodge in canberra. Alledgedly janette doesn't like canberra, that's why she insists on living at kirribilli in sydney.

[Daniel]

Yes rates are a dumb way of scaremongering. Most of the time it's issues with the global economy which means countries like Australia have interest rate rises in spite of having strong economies.

I thought the L Plate Labor billboards were funny during the last election though..... :p

I think people might want a change but I suspect the swing won't be as big as predicted and the Libs will stay in power.

[millencolin]

Is anyone else over this election or is it just me? Their policys are basically the same...

its like that south park episode where your vote is between a giant douche and a turd Sandwich....... neither is good

[Hawkmoon]

The liberals (conservatives) won the last 2 elections with scare campaigns and in particular the last focusing on high interest rates under the previous labor govt. One of their advertisements had little johhny saying that we could trust the liberals to keep interest rates low. This has come back to bite him big time as interest rates have gone up (I think) 8 times with the odds on another rate rise next tuesday.

Interest rates have gone up 5 times (not 8) since the last election. They are still lower than they were under the last Labour government. Howard has done exactly as he said he would do. Labor are just twisting it to suit their political needs. Nothing new there and totally predictable from politicians.


Whilst a lot of the policies of the 2 parties are very similar, the feeling I'm getting from listening to the radio and watching TV is that people want a change.

This has never made sense to me. Rudd has essentially rubber stamped every policy that the Coalition has come up with. Why on earth would people want to elect Kevin "Me Too!" Rudd just for the sake of a change. Wouldn't it make more sense to leave the guys in charge who actually came up with the policy in the first place?


Due to redistributions little johhny could possibly be only the second prime mister to lose his seat, which if it happens will be great, at least then we may have a prime minister who is prepared to live in the official prime minister's lodge in canberra. Alledgedly janette doesn't like canberra, that's why she insists on living at kirribilli in sydney.

Who cares where the Prime Minister lives?

I'm sure Rudd and his wife will spend alot more time in Canberra than in the 3 million dollar house they just bought on the Gold Coast. :rolleyes:

[Camelopard]

Interest rates under Labor were still lower than what they were when johhny was Treasurer under Fraser, I guess keeping interest low was a 'non core promise'?

As for the Rudd family's new house (have they actually bought it?), do I detect a hint of jealousy?

As someone whose home is in Canberra it is important to me that the Prime Minister lives here.

As for policicies being rubber stamped, maybe Rudd has learnt from Howard that you do and say anything to get into power and do and say anything to stay there. Once in power worry about core and non-core promises later.

Like these:

May 2, 1995 (doorstop interview):
Journalist: “So you've left the door open for a GST now, haven't you?”
Howard: “No, there's no way that a GST will ever be part of our policy”.
Journalist: “Never ever?”
Howard: “Never ever. It's dead. It was killed by the voters at the last election”. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

May 2, 1995 (press release):
"A GST or anything resembling it is no longer Coalition policy. Nor will it be policy at any time in the future. It is completely off the political agenda in Australia."

December 11, 1995 (Radio 2NC):
"Can I look you straight in the eye and say this, that if I state before an election that we're not going to do something and say it in concrete terms, I mean it. One of the worst things about politics in Australia at the moment is that the public doesn't believe what political leaders say."

[Schultz]

I simply don't trust John Howard.

While there are alot of things his government has done that I don't agree with eg workchoices, it is more what he hasn't done that makes me worry.

I don't understand why we have basically no manufacturing industry when many compareable countries with similar wages, such as South korea or Canada, have shipbuilding and automotive industries to be proud of. Why must we rely on the commodities boom? From what I understand, Western Australia is growing at around 10% a year, and Queensland quite fast too, but the rest of the less mineral rich states are growing at a pretty mediocre pace. The point is, I worry about the time when commodity prices start to fall again and we no longer have a manufacturing sector to rely on.

Rudd appeals to me because he is raising alot of the issues that I have never heard mentioned under John Howard. I'm talking about productivity, major education reform, global warming - let's face it... One of K-Rudd or Howard really believes that climate change is an issue that really needs to be tackled and the other has denied, denied, denied, until he finally realised it was political suicide not to be seen as acting on the issue. Look, I hate to hear labour politicians continuously use the phrase "out of touch" in relation to the libs, as I hate rhetoric, but this issue alone proves that this is a true reflection of Howard. I can say, as a young Australian voter, I can't fundamentally believe that Howard speaks for me. He doesn't.

Can i also just say that the absolute narrow focus the media has placed on this election campaign is disappointing. Why is the only person that has raised gay issues Kyle Sandilands? Here is the one segment of the population who is still discriminated against by something like 53 federal laws, in areas like superannuation and other areas where same sex partnerships aren't recognised, and noone seems to care. Hell, they are trying to pass ANOTHER law which will further discriminate against homosexuals in the area of foreign adoptions, which to me is disgusting, yet again, noone makes it an issue. Isn't it the media's job to keep the ones leading our country acountable when the opposition fails to?

[Camelopard]

Because of the comodity boom the current goverment has had the chance to do a lot for this country and they have had the chance to make Howard Prime Minister for the next couple of terms and then probably Costello after that.

Instead what have they offered, short term knee jerk quick fixes like tax cuts and baby bonuses. It's a pity that there is no accounting for what the baby bonus has been spent on, I would guess spending on flat panel TVs is pretty close to the top of the list.
OK I agree nobody likes paying taxes but how else do we pay for the things that benefit all Australians.

Meanwhile nothing is being done to upgrade infractructure, public hospitals are in meltdoown, public transport in a lot of places is appalling. The road system in Australia is a joke, how many more broken election promises will there be before the Sydney to Brisbane highway is dual carraigeway? It's a cop out to say that these areas are State Government responsibilities. After all where do the State Governments get the bulk of their money from.

I don't mind paying taxes, I'd rather pay higher tax and have a surplus to invest in the countrie's future by spending money upgrading roads, schools and hospitals.

This government wants to squander the huge surplus that we have by buying votes.

The GST is generating far more income than the Federal Government ever thought, this money should be spent on the things I've already said, decent roads for starters and I'm not talking about toll roads.

[BrentJackson]

^ Geez, is that Australia or Canada? So many similarities......

- Conservative PM who is as dull as dishwater and as trustworthy as a used car salesman
- Focus on smaller tax cuts instead of fixing problems
- Infrastructure problems
- Once-great social services cracking apart
- Weak, dim-witted leader of the opposition
- An economy relying on the commodities boom

Geez, an Aussie would feel right at home up here...... :D

[Camelopard]

The Reserve bank has just raised interest rates again, the 6th rate rise since Howard promised to keep rates at an all time low.

http://www.abc.com.au/news/stories/2007/11/07/2083766.htm?section=justin

[Jaws]

Well the whole thing about interest rates in Australia is hilarious and really just goes to show how pathetic our politicians and especially the media are.

Fact: Interest rates are cyclical sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down. Howard promising that rates will be at record low levels is no different to the weatherman promising sunny days only. A moronic promise from a moronic man. Howard should be held accountable for his stupidity and utter contempt and be booted bigtime on Nov 24.

The problem is the tax cuts. You have the bureacratic side of government trying to restrict money supply by increasing rates and then you have the political side of govt increasing the money supply via tax cuts. The RBA are responsible for the bowl of punch at the party. If the party is kind of dull and boring, they spike the punch (reduce rates) and if everyone is getting plastered (high end inflation) they take the bowl away. That's what's happening now, the RBA can see everyone is getting ripped off their tits and are taking the bowl of punch away and Howard and Rudd are slipping grog into the Fruit juice.

All these arguments about look what happened back in 1996, 1996 for godsake ! are the biggest load of crap going around.

Find me 1 professional economist or money market dealer that will agree that rates will be lower under 1 party than the other. I'll give you a tip Honest John couldn't find one in 2004 and he ain't gonna find one in 2007.

"It's time to go........................ Johnny"

[Camelopard]

A very good analogy Jaws.

Interest rates depend on what's happening with the world economy and Howard was stupid to use interest rates in the last election, he must have known that it would come back to bite him.

Recently Costello said that the Reserve Bank would not raise interest rates in November. http://www.abc.com.au/news/stories/2007/11/07/2083884.htm?section=justin

A lot of economists think there is still some very bad news to come out of the sub-prime mortgage problems in the US which will have a major impact on the world's economy. The resignation of Citibank's CEO (Charles prince) is only the beginning.

[Schultz]

As far as I see it, it is as simple as this: The target for evry government is to reach the highest possible non-inflationary level of economic growth. I was tought in economics in year 12, that for Australia, this is normally around 3.5%, and as far as I know, Australia was growing at around 4.2% last time I checked. Now of course there are alot of other things together such as the ability of government through productivity growing measure, to increase this non-inflationary level, but it is fair to say, that Howard has done very little in this regard (or any regard) over his tenure.

The government of the day is responsible for the economy. It is as simple as that. The fact that the RBA sets the interest rates is non concequential as far as i'm concerned, but unfortunately it is catching alot of people out. It also shows a massive blight on the media in that people still don't understand the purpose and effects of reserve bank monetary policy.

As far as I'm concerned if the government isn't in control of the economy, then who is? We are in a period of massive economic growth from our near neighbours, and it is the governments job to ensure that our growth does not spiral out of control. We are already seeing the effects with spiraling house prices and interest rates. I really do think its time for change and some long term, creative reform, that will really make a difference. Something after 11 years of inept governance, I don't have confidence the coalition can deliver.

[Jaws]

As far as I'm concerned if the government isn't in control of the economy, then who is?

Well it's funny you say that Schultzy, the role of the govenment is severly overstated by both major parties. It makes us think we need them. That's why a lot of Howard's cronies walk around saying "God help us if Labor get in", they make you think the sky is gonna fall in if you don't vote for them.

Howard and his spin doctors have somehow morphed the concept of sound economic management into simply having low interest rates and a budget surplus. The old measures of Current Account defecits, balance of payments have seemed to have lost their relevance. Market forces run our economy. A case in point the A$ hitting record highs will hurt our export market, increase imports and severley effect our balance of payments position. Is this bad management on behalf of the government or is it simply the $US depreciating? Check the A$ movement vs. Euro, Yen and Pound for a clue.

In realty, it is only structural changes on behalf of governments that really effect the economy. Below are the structural changes that I believe have most effected the economy over the last 20 years:
1) Floating of the A$.
2) Deregulation of financial markets (leading to lower real interest rates via increased competition from abroad and Non Banking Financial Institutions)
3) The Accord wages system - linking wage growth to productivity gains
4) Introduction of Shares imputation system (increasing tax effectiveness of investing in shares).
5) Setting an inflation target for the Central Bank (creating a lower interest rate environment)
6) Further Industrial relations reform
7) GST
8) First homebuyers grant (resulting in a disproportionate flow of resources to one sector of the economy - housing)

Numbers 1 - 5 were introduced in the Hawke/Keating years from '83-'95 and 6 - 8 were introduced over the last 11 years by Howard.

My take on the above is the the 2 parties have both introduced beneficial changes over their tenure however, the big lie in Aussie politics is that lower interest rates happened because of the coalition. In reality, they eventuated during their tenure as a result of numbers 1), 2) and 5) above.

Many will argue Warney is the best Spinner in history, I'll argue Howard is.

[Camelopard]

He's at it again, Abbott caught on tape saying that worker's rights have diminished under the Liberal's (conservatives) WorkChoices Legislation.

"Mr Abbott also said the Industrial Relations Commission has had its powers stunted by the legislation."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/16/2092446.htm

Well it's 8 days till the election and unless litle johnny can create a miracle in the coming week and it is possible, it has been done before (Tampa ring any bells?), latest polls are still predicting a Labor landslide.
I know that the only important poll is the one on election day, but here's hoping!
If Maxine McKew gets elected in Bennelong, John Howard will go down in Australia's history as being only the second sitting Prime Minister to lose his seat.