JRC vs PCWRC

[MJW]

Can someone help me by putting a poll on this thread?
Historically JWRC or JRC as it is now seems to have been the youngsters choice with in the early days PCWRC seemed more for "gentlemen drivers" Lately I think the PCWRC has attracted a younger entry, Aki Teiskonen, has been there, Juha Haninen, Patrick Flodin, Stuart Jones etc. also some fast young drivers Aigner, Brynildsen, Alen have gon ethe 4 wheel drive route. Looking at the various calendars for 2008 what are peoples opinions on which is the best future championship, not necessary as a chance to get a works drive, (we know that route is by chequebook!) Also no history lessons, Loeb & Sordo were JRC and look at where they are now, this is a poll for which championship will be the more competitive in the future, especially as Renault now have the R3, and what will happen to Suzuki Swift?

[dimviii]

i think pwrc due to costs :)

[PLuto]

Can someone help me by putting a poll on this thread?
Historically JWRC or JRC as it is now seems to have been the youngsters choice with in the early days PCWRC seemed more for "gentlemen drivers" Lately I think the PCWRC has attracted a younger entry, Aki Teiskonen, has been there, Juha Haninen, Patrick Flodin, Stuart Jones etc. also some fast young drivers Aigner, Brynildsen, Alen have gon ethe 4 wheel drive route. Looking at the various calendars for 2008 what are peoples opinions on which is the best future championship, not necessary as a chance to get a works drive, (we know that route is by chequebook!) Also no history lessons, Loeb & Sordo were JRC and look at where they are now, this is a poll for which championship will be the more competitive in the future, especially as Renault now have the R3, and what will happen to Suzuki Swift?

The best future championship is IRC :D Now seriously. JWRC was perfect some years ago with many factories, but last year it is worse and worse. S1600 are still better than R3, but all manufacturers in S1600 are going away... Two years ago there were threat about cancelling JWRC, so thats why they allowed also N3 and other A6 cars and later R3. I think this championship is without future. The same is PCWRC - main problem of this championship is his price due to starts abroad of Europe.

[Tomi]

I like the PCWRC more, but i only follow stagetimes from first or second year drivers, who has potential to maybe become top drivers in WRC.
I think it tells much about the drivers, if they can match carreer grN drivers like Arai right away, they have the pace needed, and also they can make good notes.
The problem in theese series is that some year the entry is very good like this year, sometimes again not much to talk about.

[jonkka]

Best future championship? From whose point of view?

JWRC was a good idea, to guarantee an entry to WRC events for drivers who otherwise might be left out with more experienced drivers filling the entry list. Now that the nominal cap of max 90 entries isn't that strict anymore this really isn't as big threat. JWRC really should have had cheaper cars, kit cars - even with some meagre cost-control and theoretical maximum price - soon outgrew too expensive for real juniors. Also, banning team involvement was good idea but has now been abandoned as well. All in all, as a first ladder to WRC some sort of junior stuff is good and needed but does current JWRC fit the bill? In my opinion, no.

PWRC is by definition much better at being the next tier. The only downfall it has traditionally has is the lack of competitive alternatives when it comes to cars. Only two makes have had good 4WD turbocharged car but with S2K now being admitted that is going to change. It takes more money but then again it should too, it's the one step ahead from JWRC and only second to WRCars.

If the championship is looked from afar, there should be a clear structure. First in as one-off entry, then to JWRC, to PWRC, to Manufacturer Team and finally to full Manufacturer team. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. Pay drivers skip the lower tiers and wins in lower tiers don't guarantee step up.

But back to original question, the answer is PWRC. 2WD atmospheric shopping carts really aren't interesting to a spectator and allow only limited experience for drivers.

[MJW]

Personally I think competitors are voting for the 4 wd route. JRC cars are very expensive to maintain. Maybe there should be a heirarchy say R3 or C2R2 and Fiesta cup type thing, with cost controls not like JRC, as intro level then 4 wd N4, cars inc S2000, for people to follow a structure.

[ZequeArgentina]

From my point of view,PWRC!!

JWRC has one strong asset: Loeb and Sordo came from there, but s said before PWRC had beter drivers choosing it in general, but level of drivers vary from year to year:

Just some examples:
Latavla
Stohl
Galli
Sola

and we we lok much back: Makinen

all in works or semi-works teams now iniciated in PWRC.

What is athreath is the future mix of usual group N and S2000.

The new cars are mcuh faster as we can see in IRC, which is no good to Mitsu and Subaru who had longly supportd WRC ith the group N cars, all arround the world.

I think they should allow a bigger air restrictor in "usual" N4 cars (a gain in performance at no cost, or almost no cost)

[koko0703]

Because of S2000, I think PWRC is going to be the prefered choice for young drivers. I don't exactly know how much S2000 will cost or what's the cost comparison against S1600 but the fact that the future WRCars will be based on S2000 machines should make PWRC more attractive than JWRC.

[Langdale Forest]

PWRC is probably better because there is no maximum age.

Can S2000 cars be used in PWRC?

[DonJippo]

Can S2000 cars be used in PWRC?

Yes and we should have few of them next year in PWRC.

[Tom206wrc]

Yes and we should have few of them next year in PWRC.




Do you have rumours of names of drivers who intend to run PWRC with an S2000 in 2008 ??? :)

[A.F.F.]

Do you have rumours of names of drivers who intend to run PWRC with an S2000 in 2008 ??? :)

Anton Alen ?

[Langdale Forest]

What cars are S2000 cars, does anyone have a list?

[Finni]

I think that jwrc should be stopped and teams should concentrate on pwrc. There is absolutely no point to run two similar classes. Imagine if all jwrc drivers were driving among pwrc's all these years? I think that it would have been exciting and highly appreciated class. There alos the fact that in order to get talented drivers to perform with wrc-car pwrc is easier route. With 4wd drivers are much more near to wrc-style of driving and the step is not big. Some drivers from jwrc-background have struggled with wrc-car (Wilks for instance)

[pantealex]

What cars are S2000 cars, does anyone have a list?

VW polo S2000
Toyota corolla s2000
MG s2000
Peugeot 207 S2000
Fiat punto s2000

coming?
Skoda fabia s2000
Toyota auris s2000
Ford fiesta s2000

Did I forgot any?

[Sami]

Some drivers from jwrc-background have struggled with wrc-car (Wilks for instance)

I don't understand, in my opinion Wilks has done excellent job in his Ramsport Focus!

[LazioCenturion]

From my point of view,PWRC!!

JWRC has one strong asset: Loeb and Sordo came from there, but s said before PWRC had beter drivers choosing it in general, but level of drivers vary from year to year:

Just some examples:
Latavla
Stohl
Galli
Sola

and we we lok much back: Makinen



We must remember:
- Jari-Matti Latvala was actually in JWRC first (2004 with Suzuki) before going PWRC in 2006.
- Manfred Stohl, although a long time Group N driver, spent 2001 in Super 1600 (driving Fiat Punto) before his 2004 PWRC campaign
- Gigi Galli same as above except it was JWRC in 2002 for him.
- Dani Sola was the 2002 JWRC champion driving a Citroen Saxo before his 2003 & 2004 PWRC (partly because at the time a former JWRC champion could not compete in the series again)

I think you have "better" drivers in PWRC because of the rules. Remember the age limit, so naturally more experienced (and older drivers) must drive in PWRC. I don't think there are too many great young drivers electing to be in the PWRC over JRC. Granted there is Aigner (he is OKAY), Juho Hänninen and Travis Pastrana (I think they took PWRC because it was Group N cars).

Still I think P-G Andersson can be a decent WRC guy if he gets a shot, Urmo Aava has scored twice this year in a Mitsubishi Lancer WRC (7th in Greece, 8th in New Zealand) and Martin Prokop has an outside chance of being an okay WRC driver (thanks to Citroen connection).

Finally, I do like the PWRC because of the cars and competition and I am so sick of those dumb little 2WD with their silly punctures. However, the annoying thing about the PWRC is that now you don't have to run the whole season (by that I mean all six nominated 8 events). Instead you have a bunch of guys splitting a season with a team and Toshi Arai winning half the time so the championship is a snoozer.

[Speedbitz]

I think super 1600 should be a cheap class to step up to world championship before doing pwrc.

To do this the rules need to be changed. Either remove super 1600 cars and have only R3 or N, A6 etc or a simply rule change of the engine must use standard crank and rods. This will remove a great deal of cost since you can't rev the engine safely past 8200 and obviously the cost saving of not needing a 15,000 euro crankshaft. This way the cars still look cool and are very similar to R3 cars. Manufacturer teams should be banned from running in this champiosnhip since the cost should be low to encourage new drivers.

PWRC should be mainly Super 2000 works teams and private teams. The evo and subaru however boring compared to s2000 does have the benefit of being alot cheaper for private teams wanting to get experience out of europe.

So which is better?
JWRC if you want to drive a WRC car.
PWRC if you have lots of money because you can run S2000 which is the bet car after WRC.