Rookie Comparison: Hamilton vs Villeneuve

[Hawkmoon]

Since both finished second in their rookie seasons I thought a comparison between the two might be in order.

Lewis Hamilton (2007 - 17 races)
Wins: 4
Podiums: 12
Avgerage Finishing Position: 3.00
Pole: 6
Front Row Starts: 12
Average Qualifying Position: 2.59
DNF: 1

Jacques Villeneuve (1996 - 16 races)
Wins: 4
Podiums: 11
Average Finishing Position: 2.92
Pole: 3
Front Row Starts: 9
Average Qualifying Position: 3.06
DNF: 3

It would seem that Hamilton was the better qualifier but that in races there's not much between the two.

I know this comparison doesn't look at many factors such as car strength, quality of opposition and regulation changes but as a purely statictical comparison the two had comparable seasons.

We all know what happened to Villenueve. It will be interesting to see what tragectory Hamilton's career will take from a similar starting point.

[grantb4]

Yeah we all know what happened to Villeneuve. He inexplicably lost a wheel driving around Suzuka (the finale) thus giving the title to Damon. Never heard an explanation for that one.

[Roamy]

plus the famous pullover in Aussie - oh yea the engine knows the difference between 16k and 18k rpms

Well Lewis much like JV very talented and came in on a good car!! But you have to drive what they give you and I would say both did excellent!!

The problem Lewis faces in comparison is that next year everyone goes to a equal base line with no TC. JV still had a good car and only had to beat a cheating car but that was only one. Lewis will have much competition.

[wmcot]

But who can sing better, Lewis or JV???

[gm99]

I still think that JV's first season was his best in F1. In 1997, when he won the championship, he made a lot more mistakes than in his rookie year.

It's probably easier when you can drive without any pressure, as nobody expects the title from a rookie. I wonder if it will be the same with Hamilton, as he surely will be the top favorite of many, not least the British press, to win the championship next year.

[raikk]

plus the famous pullover in Aussie - oh yea the engine knows the difference between 16k and 18k rpms

Well Lewis much like JV very talented and came in on a good car!! But you have to drive what they give you and I would say both did excellent!!

The problem Lewis faces in comparison is that next year everyone goes to a equal base line with no TC. JV still had a good car and only had to beat a cheating car but that was only one. Lewis will have much competition.

I think that will benefit Lewis more... It will take other drivers some more time to get used to the old proper way for driving grandpirx cars while Hamilton is still pretty fresh from GP2 and certainly showed his worth there..
(Drivers who will excel without TC)
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Alonso
Kubica
Kovy
Rosberg


(Drivers who will not excel without TC)
Fisichella
Massa (car control is self taught!)
Ralf Schumi
Rubens Barichello
Button
Trulli
Sato

(Dark horses)
Heifeld
Sutil
Bourdais (no TC in champcar)
DC
Vettle

[Mark]

Both drivers came straight into a top team, the big difference is that in 1996 Williams won without any competition bascially. Schumacher won some races in his first season with Ferrari but other than that it was Williams all the way.

Whereas Hamilton had a four way challenge.

[jens]

Have to say that Hamilton's debut season has looked a bit more impressive than Villeneuve's. It's hard to predict, but at the moment I doubt that Lewis will go downward spiral like Jacques as he seems to have a long relationship with McLaren-Mercedes and arguably is negotiating a contract to drive there for at least another 5 seasons.

[Mark]

Villeneuve was unfortunate in that after his second year with the team Williams lost their Renault engine deal and started on their own downward spiral. On the face of it going to a new team seemed like a good idea, it had worked for Schumacher!

[BDunnell]

Hamilton didn't have any awful weekends this year like Villeneuve had in Monaco in 1996, where he qualified appallingly and was then racing with the Fortis when he went out.

[Mark]

I remember that, everyone said that Villeneuve would win easily at Monaco because of his street racing experience in IndyCar, how wrong they were!

[ratonmacias]

Hamilton didn't have any awful weekends this year like Villeneuve had in Monaco in 1996, where he qualified appallingly and was then racing with the Fortis when he went out.

well lewis "craneboy hamilton" did have some very bad races too the difference was that patrick head and frank williams said jv messed up and ron dennis always cut some slack on craneboy.

germany for example where he got his new name.

then china where craneboy ate his tyres before everyone else and went to the gravel. then brazil where he went out in the first lap and pushed the reset button when he saw himself in 4th thinking he was still in the simulator.

its easier in f1 now than 11 years ago why?

traction control in the cars.
less powerful v8 engines.
simulators where you can train hour after hour in all types of track conditions.
asphalt at most run off areas instead of gravel lewis was off the track at least in germany, spa, china and brazil. in 1996 that would have been 4 dnf now it was only 1.

and still jv had a better finishing record and as far as i know you dont win any points in qualy so for me jv is the stronger of the rookies.

[Bagwan]

well lewis "craneboy hamilton" did have some very bad races too the difference was that patrick head and frank williams said jv messed up and ron dennis always cut some slack on craneboy.

germany for example where he got his new name.

then china where craneboy ate his tyres before everyone else and went to the gravel. then brazil where he went out in the first lap and pushed the reset button when he saw himself in 4th thinking he was still in the simulator.

its easier in f1 now than 11 years ago why?

traction control in the cars.
less powerful v8 engines.
simulators where you can train hour after hour in all types of track conditions.
asphalt at most run off areas instead of gravel lewis was off the track at least in germany, spa, china and brazil. in 1996 that would have been 4 dnf now it was only 1.

and still jv had a better finishing record and as far as i know you dont win any points in qualy so for me jv is the stronger of the rookies.

Attaboy , Rat , no question .
Next year with no TC , too bad no JV .

[Sirius]

I would have just liked for Villeneuve to have been able to set up his car to his liking from the beginning of the season, not from Hungary onwards.

Different results would surely have been his.

Sirius

[Roamy]

Hamilton didn't have any awful weekends this year like Villeneuve had in Monaco in 1996, where he qualified appallingly and was then racing with the Fortis when he went out.

just curious please provide comparison to his teammate as well.

thx

[rabf1]

"when is jv going to announce his future plans?"

He is signed to drive in Nascar with Bill Davis racing next year. Also, apparently JV and Pollock are trying to buy some or all of the team.

[ratonmacias]

"when is jv going to announce his future plans?"

He is signed to drive in Nascar with Bill Davis racing next year. Also, apparently JV and Pollock are trying to buy some or all of the team.

i know i have even seen a truckrace hell jv and i drive the same type of car now lol.

its just that i have been too lazy to change my sig.

[Sleeper]

(Drivers who will not excel without TC)
Button


I'm interested to find out why you think Button wont do well without TC, considering he uses it far less than any other driver out there.

[raikk]

I'm interested to find out why you think Button wont do well without TC, considering he uses it far less than any other driver out there.

simpily speculation...

[rohanweb]

But who can sing better, Lewis or JV???

lol./..JV sounds awful

[rohanweb]

I think that will benefit Lewis more... It will take other drivers some more time to get used to the old proper way for driving grandpirx cars while Hamilton is still pretty fresh from GP2 and certainly showed his worth there..
(Drivers who will excel without TC)
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Alonso
Kubica
Kovy
Rosberg


(Drivers who will not excel without TC)
Fisichella
Massa (car control is self taught!)
Ralf Schumi
Rubens Barichello
Button
Trulli
Sato

(Dark horses)
Heifeld
Sutil
Bourdais (no TC in champcar)
DC
Vettle

you are kind of right raikk..

[rohanweb]

Lewis drives much crispier than JV..
JV made many mistakes than Lewis in his rookie year though.

[Dave B]

In terms of actual hard results there's very little to choose between them. Both started their F1 careers in top cars with class team-mates, and both narrowly finished 2nd in the drivers' championships.

The real test will be what happens in the future. When Lewis either eclipses Jacques' achivements or retires from F1, then comparisons will be valid.

Plus, as yet, he hasn't doinked any member of the Minogue family :p

[aryan]

Since both finished second in their rookie seasons I thought a comparison between the two might be in order.


One significant factor lost in this comparison, is that Lewis was driving one of the top 4 cars of the grid, while Jacques was driving one of the top 2.

Having said that, I will be happy if Hamilton's stats follow Jacques' for one (and only one) more season ;-)

[Garry Walker]

Hamilton is much better than Villeneuve, Villeneuve never impressed me at all. He was beaten by Button and struggled against Panis. When you struggle or get beaten by nobodies, then you obviously are not very good.

[Roamy]

Garry
Who has the Trophy??

[D28]

Two more areas for comparison are:
Initial Impact-
JV put the car on pole in his very first outing, a feat he shares only with Mario Andretti.
LH gained his first pole in race 6.

JV won his first GP in race 4. This puts him 3rd all-time shared with E. Fittipaldi and L. Scarfiotti (I have discounted the veteran rookies of 1950 Farina and Fangio)
LH won his first GP in race 6

Advantage JV

Composure Under Pressure-
JV took the title to the last race when a wheel came off

LH frittered away his title in the last 2 races by dueling with KR and FA instead of simply finishing 4th and 5th.

[Roamy]

D28 has the facts and good ones they are

[Bagwan]

Two more areas for comparison are:
Initial Impact-
JV put the car on pole in his very first outing, a feat he shares only with Mario Andretti.
LH gained his first pole in race 6.

JV won his first GP in race 4. This puts him 3rd all-time shared with E. Fittipaldi and L. Scarfiotti (I have discounted the veteran rookies of 1950 Farina and Fangio)
LH won his first GP in race 6

Advantage JV

Composure Under Pressure-
JV took the title to the last race when a wheel came off

LH frittered away his title in the last 2 races by dueling with KR and FA instead of simply finishing 4th and 5th.

Nice first post !
Welcome home .

[ratonmacias]

an argentinian joke that can easily be applied to the lewis fans.

as argentina was loosing 5-1 to brazil the argentinian commentator on tv gives the score "brazil 5 goals - argentina 1 expectacular superb never seen goal"

lewis came close and managed to loose the wdc in an unthinkable way. he only managed 2 points out of the last 20 all by himself no one to blame. the silverstone police is carrying out an investigation they suspect the collar on lewis`s firesuit was too tight.

[Easy Drifter]

The stats favour JV. However, he was CART champ and Indy winner before F1. More experience in big leagues than LH. I do not know why the wheels fell off his cart but they did. He was pretty close to Hiedfeld last year and sometimes faster. How much of BMW's development came from his input?
Now I do believe LH will become one of the greats and he will learn from his wilting under pressure this year.
By the way I feel Gilles was far better than JV.

[jso1985]

could be good for Hamilton that the stats are agaisnt him

in the end Hakkinen and Alonso had mucbh worse stats vs JV on their rookie year yet they're much more succesful :p :

[wmcot]

Two more areas for comparison are:
Initial Impact-
JV put the car on pole in his very first outing, a feat he shares only with Mario Andretti.
LH gained his first pole in race 6.

JV won his first GP in race 4. This puts him 3rd all-time shared with E. Fittipaldi and L. Scarfiotti (I have discounted the veteran rookies of 1950 Farina and Fangio)
LH won his first GP in race 6

Advantage JV

Composure Under Pressure-
JV took the title to the last race when a wheel came off

LH frittered away his title in the last 2 races by dueling with KR and FA instead of simply finishing 4th and 5th.

Good post! Thanks for the stats. It puts LH's first season into a whole different perspective. Not that I think he won't exceed JV's F1 legacy, but without your stats, I would have thought JV was miles behind! Funny how time makes you remember things differently!

[ArrowsFA1]

Funny how time makes you remember things differently!
Indeed, and if you just look at JV's first 2 years in F1 his was a remarkable career by any accounts. Shame about the rest :dozey:

Who knows how Hamilton will compare after 2, let alone 9 years :eek: but he's started well.