Hamilton under investigation!!!!

[Garry Walker]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63425

This is too funny really

[Donney]

This season is the absurdest one ever.

[DimitraF1]

whats funny? if he break the rules he have to receive a penalty. rules are rules... lets give some action for the race..10 place penalty for lewis.. it will be exciting

[Firstgear]

Ron better find a way to get Alonso a penalty too or Max will fine him for not treating the drivers equally.

[markabilly]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63425

This is too funny really
:crazy:
:s pin: :talk: :arrows: :rotflmao:

[jens]

Well... Do I really have to start believing in conspiracies too? :crazy: A Ferrari dominated weekend with Hamilton getting a possible grid penalty ... can there be anything else to make the title decider even more exciting?

[THE_LIBERATOR]

Well... Do I really have to start believing in conspiracies too? :crazy: A Ferrari dominated weekend with Hamilton getting a possible grid penalty ... can there be anything else to make the title decider even more exciting?
Some actual racing, or is that too much to ask? :crazy:

[Dave B]

Anybody still think there's a conspiracy against Alonso? :rolleyes:

[J4MIE]

Crap :(

[fandango]

Well, if indeed the THREE drivers in question broke the rules then they should be penalised. A ten-place grid penalty seems excessive, but maybe a five-place one, or elimination of the fastest lap in qualifying or something.

One thing that surprises me is that there's no set penalty for this. I mean, what were they thinking when they made the rules, that everyone would stick to them? Now, whatever they do, there'll be cries of "not tough enough" or "excessively strict". What is wrong with the FIA? Even this, you can't blame it on Max.

[Tazio]

We Ferrari fans better hope for a penaly to Hamilton! He looks very strong.

[Easy Drifter]

Apparently Speed TV are saying that LH's engineer says they used one set of each type. Now what does the Spanish Scrut. say? If he didn't notice anything just how much use is he to anyone on either side?

[ioan]

We Ferrari fans better hope for a penaly to Hamilton! He looks very strong.

With 2 sets of tires against only one for the rest, that's easy! :p :

[ioan]

Seriously, I'm relieved that McLaren can't win the WCC, they can't even count to 1! :laugh:

[ioan]

Apparently Speed TV are saying that LH's engineer says they used one set of each type. Now what does the Spanish Scrut. say? If he didn't notice anything just how much use is he to anyone on either side?

TV images are there to be seen, there can't be to much arguing about it, an extreme wet and a wet tire have a different appearance. But an engineer who can't count to 1, who would believe him! :D

[fandango]

Apparently Speed TV are saying that LH's engineer says they used one set of each type. Now what does the Spanish Scrut. say? If he didn't notice anything just how much use is he to anyone on either side?

Perhaps you too should brush up on your observation skills. The FIA have sent an observer at the request of the Spanish Federation, but I don't think there's been any mention of the scrutineer's nationality (or gender). Separate from that, McLaren invited the Pres of the Spanish Federation to attend.

[ioan]

Perhaps you too should brush up on your observation skills. The FIA have sent an observer at the request of the Spanish Federation, but I don't think there's been any mention of the scrutineer's nationality (or gender). Separate from that, McLaren invited the Pres of the Spanish Federation to attend.

Right on, we have no idea about this scrutinizer's nationality. There's very hight chance that it's a Chinese or an Indian.

But I reckon that if it's Jo Bauer than I don't really know his nationality.

[fandango]

Scrutinizer... I like it! Or how about Scrutinator?

[Tazio]

With 2 sets of tires against only one for the rest, that's easy! :p :
I don't under stand your post
ioan could you explain Thanks

On topic If Hamilton gets a penalty. Don't you find it an odd coincidence that Ferraris demise in Fuji Was regarding usage of the wrong wet stones. Is this a freaking make up call, or a coincidence. Just keep that Kool Aid away from me. I'm losing my religion

[Bradley]

BLA BLA investigation ...

Reminds me of Fuji ... I bet that he does not get anything for it.

But it does not surprise me that he did so. The boy does not know the track and must collect as much as information as possible. And after spygate, I'm not surprised any more when LH and McLaren are breaking the rules.

[ioan]

I don't under stand your post
ioan could you explain Thanks

I'll do a Smiley's Dictionary one day ( it look I might even become rich )! :D


On topic If Hamilton gets a penalty. Don't you find it an odd coincidence that Ferraris demise in Fuji Was regarding usage of the wrong wet stones. Is this a freaking make up call, or a coincidence. Just keep that Kool Aid away from me. I'm losing my religion

What has the Fuji email "bug" to do with McLaren team being utterly bad at arithmetics?! :confused:

[ioan]

BLA BLA investigation ...

Reminds me of Fuji ... I bet that he does not get anything for it.

But it does not surprise me that he did so. The boy does not know the track and must collect as much as information as possible. And after spygate, I'm not surprised any more when LH and McLaren are breaking the rules.

I agree, there will be no punishments, they'll find a way to relax the rules again.

Although there is something in the past about drivers being punished for tire related things:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4564295.stm

[N. Jones]

Scrutinizer... I like it! Or how about Scrutinator?

Is that a distant cousin of the Central Scrutinizer?

[Tazio]

What has the Fuji email "bug" to do with McLaren team being utterly bad at arithmetics?! :confused:
Rain Tires are the common relationship. Your fained naivity is not becoming, funny, or informative.

[Easy Drifter]

I would like to point out I said what Speed TV had reported at one stage. I did not see practice. I will tape qualifying. I own my own business and work 7 days a week. I only use the computer between customers so please don't jump on me for relying on what is being reported by TV on web sites.
I now know RD admitted they goofed up.

[fandango]

Don't worry about it Easy Drifter. One thing you should never do is take this forum too seriously. Don't work too hard, and keep posting.

[Tazio]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19803.html
They should have penalized them a set of dry's
Unless it rains of course

[Crypt]

Doesn't matter, his engine will puke on lap 19 anyways.

Crypt has spoken!

[fandango]

Well, it doesn't seem like much of a penalty, but who knows, it may prove decisive. But what I can't understand is why did it take them more than ten seconds to come with the penalty. I don't know a lot about football, but there are certain rules that are an automatic freekick, others a yellow card, others still a red card. Why is it so difficult for motor racing to be transparent?

On the other hand, what does Hamilton have to do to get penalised? Run over Max Mosley's cat?

[GP-M3]

BS "penalty" for Mac once again breaking the rules. That's chump change to these guys. Should have been 5 places on the grid, or as someone said, take away a set of dry's if it is a dry race.

Hamilton keeps getting every break. (Like the marshalls hoisting him back on track!) Then he drives without any regard to others (like in the rain recently) and today when he balked Kimi. The guy thinks he never needs to look in his mirrors.

[Cozzie]

Ridiculous!

[ioan]

Ridiculous!

You were not seriously expecting them to penalize Hamilton!? They managed to let him go several times this season when penalties should have been handed out.

But, in China he escaped penalty for his Japanese maneuver only to have a DNF. It seems there is some justice out there even if it's not handed out by the FIA. ;)

[BDunnell]

You were not seriously expecting them to penalize Hamilton!?

Yes, if they deemed it proper to do so, because I do not think there is some grand conspiracy going on, on the grounds that there is no evidence for this whatsoever.

This sort of accusation is just as ridiculous as those that used, as those with long memories will recall, to be levelled against the FIA in relation to Schumacher and Ferrari. There was no truth to them then, and there is no truth to them now.

[J4MIE]

BS "penalty" for Mac once again breaking the rules. That's chump change to these guys. Should have been 5 places on the grid, or as someone said, take away a set of dry's if it is a dry race.

Hamilton keeps getting every break. (Like the marshalls hoisting him back on track!) Then he drives without any regard to others (like in the rain recently) and today when he balked Kimi. The guy thinks he never needs to look in his mirrors.

I'm guessing you're not a fan then?

[BDunnell]

I'm guessing you're not a fan then?

Or someone that recalls similar unnecessary outcries over incidents involving drivers in the past that some felt should have gone punished...

There is never anything much new under the sun in F1, or anything worth the shock and outrage that gets thrown around over recent incidents, as unsavoury as they may be.

[markabilly]

there will be no meaningful penalty--benie and maxie don't want nothing to interfere with the chosen rookie Brit to be WDC

Wonder why Ralf got a .5 second penalty for using one tire at Monaco, and these guys get zip for using 4 tires.....And the reason they were being used was to break them in for the race in case of rain......

wonder why FA did not get an extra set on his car.......

time for you Brits to celebrate, they will not ruin your dreams of glory.. :beer:

[ioan]

Yes, if they deemed it proper to do so, because I do not think there is some grand conspiracy going on, on the grounds that there is no evidence for this whatsoever.

Ralf Schumacher got .5 seconds added to his qualy time in 2005 because one of his tires wasn't from the batch that was alloted to him.

Lewis Hamilton uses 4 tires that he didn't have the right to use, he get's a 22000$ fine and they take away the used tires!

What a joke this sport has become.

Next year they better ask Bernie which driver is the one that would bring the most financial benefits in his pockets and declare the winner.
It would actually save a few billions of $ and we would save some time while not following a circus. Not to mention the benefits to the environment.

[truefan72]

so I get back to my hotel, pay $10 to log on per day and I see the Hamilton haters have taken over the thread as usual;


Seriously, I'm relieved that McLaren can't win the WCC, they can't even count to 1! :laugh:

As oppossed to ill preparing massa in quali's,
sending their driver out despite a red light in the pits.
not haviong the right set of tires ready
not being able to fuel a car properly
not being able to check simple emails...or actually trying to cheat on RACE DAY not FP1


Well, it doesn't seem like much of a penalty, but who knows, it may prove decisive. But what I can't understand is why did it take them more than ten seconds to come with the penalty. I don't know a lot about football, but there are certain rules that are an automatic freekick, others a yellow card, others still a red card. Why is it so difficult for motor racing to be transparent?

On the other hand, what does Hamilton have to do to get penalised? Run over Max Mosley's cat?

why are you so desparate for LH to get penalised, don't you want a fight on the track? or would you rather just see the two ferrari's running around by themselves and congratulating yourselves for a superb 1-2 finsh LOL


BS "penalty" for Mac once again breaking the rules. That's chump change to these guys. Should have been 5 places on the grid, or as someone said, take away a set of dry's if it is a dry race.

Hamilton keeps getting every break. (Like the marshalls hoisting him back on track!) Then he drives without any regard to others (like in the rain recently) and today when he balked Kimi. The guy thinks he never needs to look in his mirrors.

LOL,
First and foremost, it was 3 teams not just McClaren that were penalized

It was FP1 and a simple enough mistake, $15,000 seesm tough enough for using an extra set of tires. Stop with the draconian penalty wishes for a useless FP1 mistake.
Talk to me when the team tries to cheat on sunday by clearly putting on the wrong tyres (no matter the excuse right?) even though it was mandated by the FIA for every team. What is the suggested penalty for that IYO


it is utter madness at the fervor of those who make a mountain out of a mole hill, just to see their driver win.

[ioan]

it is utter madness at the fervor of those who make a mountain out of a mole hill, just to see their driver win.

Just take a look in the mirror.

[BDunnell]

Talk to me when the team tries to cheat on sunday by clearly putting on the wrong tyres (no matter the excuse right?) even though it was mandated by the FIA for every team. What is the suggested penalty for that IYO


it is utter madness at the fervor of those who make a mountain out of a mole hill, just to see their driver win.

With respect, I think that suggesting Ferrari deliberately tried to cheat in that instance is also a case of making a mountain out of a molehill.

[ioan]

With respect, I think that suggesting Ferrari deliberately tried to cheat in that instance is also a case of making a mountain out of a molehill.

Thus my previous comment.

[BDunnell]

Thus my above comment.

Indeed. Likewise, my above comment about there rarely being anything really new or shocking in F1 that merits the level of outrage that is heard a lot these days.

[markabilly]

so I get back to my hotel, pay $10 to log on per day and I see the Hamilton haters have taken over the thread as usual;



As oppossed to ill preparing massa in quali's,
sending their driver out despite a red light in the pits.
not haviong the right set of tires ready
not being able to fuel a car properly
not being able to check simple emails...or actually trying to cheat on RACE DAY not FP1



why are you so desparate for LH to get penalised, don't you want a fight on the track? or would you rather just see the two ferrari's running around by themselves and congratulating yourselves for a superb 1-2 finsh LOL



LOL,
First and foremost, it was 3 teams not just McClaren that were penalized

It was FP1 and a simple enough mistake, $15,000 seesm tough enough for using an extra set of tires. Stop with the draconian penalty wishes for a useless FP1 mistake.
Talk to me when the team tries to cheat on sunday by clearly putting on the wrong tyres (no matter the excuse right?) even though it was mandated by the FIA for every team. What is the suggested penalty for that IYO


it is utter madness at the fervor of those who make a mountain out of a mole hill, just to see their driver win.

Nonsense--if .5 second on Ralfie at Monacao was enough for one tire, then what about 4 tires, used only to give themselves an extra scuffed set of tires in case of rain....mac caught again cheating.........(and as soon as you prove that Ferrari was not stupid for realizing the hopeless problem AND they got the email, YOU GOT A CASE, but otherwise just useless, wishful whining from someone unnecessarily worried about the Hamster dream that will come true) :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

Well, it doesn't seem like much of a penalty, but who knows, it may prove decisive. But what I can't understand is why did it take them more than ten seconds to come with the penalty. I don't know a lot about football, but there are certain rules that are an automatic freekick, others a yellow card, others still a red card. Why is it so difficult for motor racing to be transparent?

On the other hand, what does Hamilton have to do to get penalised? Run over Max Mosley's cat?

"But what I can't understand is why did it take them more than ten seconds to come with the penalty"

Good question, and very humorously presented!
I think what we have here is a huge dichotomy.
A clearly stated rule was broken.
Metaphorically speaking the perpetrators was issued a yellow card.
Why yellow? It is the same reason as in Soccer, Football.
The severity, along with the proximity didn't have a profound affect on the outcome, or result in a substantial, quantifiable, or tactical advantage. Unfortunately these rules and their consequences are not written in stone.
Furthermore these consequences are predicated on unconnected and subjective criteria. The rules, the penalties, and especially their enforcement,
Seem to be to a large degree only guidelines.

[BDunnell]

Nonsense--if .5 second on Ralfie at Monacao was enough for one tire, then what about 4 tires, used only to give themselves an extra scuffed set of tires in case of rain....mac caught again cheating.........(and as soon as you prove that Ferrari was not stupid for realizing the hopeless problem AND they got the email, YOU GOT A CASE, but otherwise just useless, wishful whining from someone unnecessarily worried about the Hamster dream that will come true) :rolleyes:

Likewise, I hope you are able to prove that McLaren's motivation in this case was cheating. The accusation simply doesn't stand up whether applied to the incidents being mentioned here in relation to McLaren or Ferrari — unless anyone is able to get inside the minds of those responsible.

[truefan72]

"But what I can't understand is why did it take them more than ten seconds to come with the penalty"

Good question, and very humorously presented!
I think what we have here is a huge dichotomy.
A clearly stated rule was broken.
Metaphorically speaking the perpetrators was issued a yellow card.
Why yellow? It is the same reason as in Soccer, Football.
The severity, along with the proximity didn't have a profound affect on the outcome, or result in a substantial, quantifiable, or tactical advantage. Unfortunately these rules and their consequences are not written in stone.
Furthermore these consequences are predicated on unconnected and subjective criteria. The rules, the penalties, and especially their enforcement,
Seem to be to a large degree only guidelines.


Seems reasonable enough of an assesment :up:

[BDunnell]

"But what I can't understand is why did it take them more than ten seconds to come with the penalty"


Given that this is a sport that, despite sophisticated systems, was unable to decide who had won a race four years ago, I don't think we should be all that surprised!

[markabilly]

Likewise, I hope you are able to prove that McLaren's motivation in this case was cheating. The accusation simply doesn't stand up whether applied to the incidents being mentioned here in relation to McLaren or Ferrari — unless anyone is able to get inside the minds of those responsible.

Well, the first was based upon a very simple rule on how the tires were to be used and the same basic rule regarding dry tires was applied to Ralfie with a resulting penalty. The use in Ralfie's case was more of an accident then anything else, as it involved one tire, but it was a violation, whereas the rule was very clear here, and the only purpose to be served was to have an extra set of scruffs that others would not have.


The second involving Ferrari was dependant on an email being recieved, and the lack of reciept, where if anything the party who was hurt was Ferrari.....and as I said, prove receipt, and the case is made for a whipping on ferrari.....

[BDunnell]

The second involving Ferrari was dependant on an email being recieved, and the lack of reciept, where if anything the party who was hurt was Ferrari.....and as I said, prove receipt, and the case is made for a whipping on ferrari.....

But in this case involving McLaren, it is equally impossible to prove the motivation.

[Sleeper]

I think the penalties meted out to McLaren, Honda and Super Aguri are about right. I've hated these rules were the team makes a small mistake/ has a problem (like the engine change rules) and its the driver that suffers the consiquences. Now, the teams have lost some money and Button, Hamilton and Sato will all be short one set of wets compared to the rest of the grid because they might be scrubed and give better performance. Justice done, les get on with the bloody weekend.

[truefan72]

With respect, I think that suggesting Ferrari deliberately tried to cheat in that instance is also a case of making a mountain out of a molehill.


I was merely playing devil's advocate here BDunnell,

Certain parties feel that McClaren should be punished for this infraction, even when RD, and LH came out and said it is an honest mistake. They feel that a rule is a rule and it has been broken no matter the underlying circumstance

so then what about Japan, when Ferrari broke the rule
and it was on Race Day not FP1

that's all I'm saying

[markabilly]

But in this case involving McLaren, it is equally impossible to prove the motivation.

Breaking a clear rule, is no different than breaking any other clear law...and the punishment for Ralfie was far tougher than that meted out here,(Ralfie did NOT need an extra scrubbed tire, of course a whole set might have come in handy) so here, there is the far stronger case for doing it to gain an advantage by having an extra set of scrubbed tires.

Again, show me the ferrari receipt of the email, I say the cheaters should be punished and whipped good.....

but then when the FIA concludes that a team is such a cheater that they should be punished like they werewith total stripping of points and 100 million.........but leave the drivers with immunity....then clearly the same "standards" are being applied here......but not the standards that were applied to ralfie.....

"unequal" between teamates is not the issue...it is "unequal" to keep the WDC going for ham, and that is another matter indeed---said it many months ago, FA will not win, (and now neither will ferrari because they already now have their championship)

MARK MY words well.........

"there are none so blind as those that will not see...."

[BDunnell]

"there are none so blind as those that will not see...."

...that one driver has also beaten the other fair and square on the track as well, but never mind.

[markabilly]

...that one driver has also beaten the other fair and square on the track as well, but never mind.
As i said "unequal between the team mates is not the issue"...not talking FA v LH, only about everyone being held accountable equally as historically it has been done to others, like ralfie.... :D

[Valve Bounce]

What we want to see is a level playing field for the two Ferraris and the two McLarens to race in what is probably the most exciting finale of an F1 season for many years, and what probably won't come again for many more.

[BDunnell]

What we want to see is a level playing field for the two Ferraris and the two McLarens to race in what is probably the most exciting finale of an F1 season for many years, and what probably won't come again for many more.

Exactly. I will certainly enjoy it without thoughts of one driver or another having been unfairly advantaged, and I should think most other F1 enthusiasts will be able to as well.

[markabilly]

What we want to see is a level playing field for the two Ferraris and the two McLarens to race in what is probably the most exciting finale of an F1 season for many years, and what probably won't come again for many more.


He does not want flowers with your gratitude...just send your checks made payable to benei and MAxie....... :D

[Valve Bounce]

He does not want flowers with your gratitude...just send your checks made payable to benei and MAxie....... :D


I supose this is the best financial bonanza that Bernie could have wanted. I just hope that more of the money will flow through to the teams near the back of the grid.

[BDunnell]

I supose this is the best financial bonanza that Bernie could have wanted. I just hope that more of the money will flow through to the teams near the back of the grid.

I suppose the other big battle is the one for points at the tail end of the constructors' championship. Who's going to be able to move up the pit lane for 2008? Will Honda be forced to use a garage in the neighbouring town to every circuit?

[GP-M3]

First and foremost, it was 3 teams not just McClaren that were penalized...

...Talk to me when the team tries to cheat on sunday by clearly putting on the wrong tyres (no matter the excuse right?) even though it was mandated by the FIA for every team. What is the suggested penalty for that IYO


It must feel nice to ignore the obvious. I think all three should have been docked 5 grid positions... gee, wasn't it just last week the LH was being investigated for wreckless driving behind the safety car... and the outcome... wait for it.... nada! And that was more obvious, and harmful than this. But the golden boy is the teflon man this year. Nothin' sticks to him!

And as for your silly "suggested penalty" I think Ferrari paid a HUGE price for that one, essentially being sent to the back of the grid when they were forced to make pit stops on the third lap.

[Ari]

I'm preety sure most are aware of my opinions on Lewis Hamilton and his right to be the next Formula One WDC. Hell, I reckon Bernie would get in the T car for him if he wen't off the track and drive it around to him.

In the past month the sport has gone from being questionable to an absolute and utter joke. I guess in China karma caught up with Hamilton for his efforts in Japan.

That said, this is a preety small indiscretion but it's easy to assume someone else would get a 5-10 grid penalty.

[Ari]

When you consider how much money is spent on F1.... the penalty handed out is relative to:

http://www.yopopetc.com/images/swearjar.jpg

[Ari]

Likewise, I hope you are able to prove that McLaren's motivation in this case was cheating. The accusation simply doesn't stand up whether applied to the incidents being mentioned here in relation to McLaren or Ferrari — unless anyone is able to get inside the minds of those responsible.

I walked into a bank earlier today and pulled a gun on the teller staff behind the counter. I didnt go to jail because they couldnt prove my motive was to rob the bank. I was merely cold, which is why I had the balaclava on and the gun you ask? Well I just wanted to tellers opinion on my nice shiny new gun.... it's a beauty of a piece!

[J4MIE]

...and this is exactly why I don't visit this forum very often... you get someone who dislikes a driver and argues about everything despite it all being settled earlier. I just can't be bothered with it all.

So, I shall post a huge congratulation to Lewis Hamilton on Sunday evening, then that will be that :cool:

[Tazio]

While I napped this thread had a reasonable discussion. All involved parties arguing forcefully, passionately, and fairly. This brings to mind an ongoing theme between myself, and my adult offspring. It is that, no matter how hard you try, how worthy you believe you are, how honestly, and diligently you have applied yourself. Life is not a fair proposition. It appears that the same holds true for f1. Unless something utterly inequitable or unbelievable happens in qualification, and the conclusion of the race, I will accept the driver with the most racing points the legitimate WDC. Arguments for, and against any of the three protagonist's, will not change the official outcome. I will have no problem living with it.

[Tazio]

While I napped this thread had a reasonable discussion. All involved parties arguing forcefully, passionately, and fairly. This brings to mind an ongoing theme between myself, and my adult offspring. It is that, no matter how hard you try, how worthy you believe you are, how honestly, and diligently you have applied yourself. Life is not a fair proposition. It appears that the same holds true for f1. Unless something utterly inequitable or unbelievable happens in qualification, and the conclusion of the race, I will accept the driver with the most racing points the legitimate WDC. Arguments for, and against any of the three protagonist's, will not change the official outcome. I will have no problem living with it.
For the record I reposed after post# 59.
That is not to say that subsequent post's represent
something less than the former, in validity!

[Valve Bounce]

I walked into a bank earlier today and pulled a gun on the teller staff behind the counter. I didnt go to jail because they couldnt prove my motive was to rob the bank. I was merely cold, which is why I had the balaclava on and the gun you ask? Well I just wanted to tellers opinion on my nice shiny new gun.... it's a beauty of a piece!


...........and you told them you name was Benny, right!!!

[Ari]

...........and you told them you name was Benny, right!!!

Why not!!!! ;)

Such is life!

[Ari]

...and this is exactly why I don't visit this forum very often... you get someone who dislikes a driver and argues about everything despite it all being settled earlier. I just can't be bothered with it all.

So, I shall post a huge congratulation to Lewis Hamilton on Sunday evening, then that will be that :cool: \

If Hamilton wins the race he deserves it. Simple as that.

[wmcot]

I think the entire rule book needs to be shoved and rewritten using common sense. If you're going to enforce this questionable rule, it would make more sense to allow LH one less set of RACE tires rather than specifying wets, dries, intermediates, etc. If you take away a set of wets in a dry race, what punishment is that? The same goes for taking away a set of dries in a wet race. Simply allow him one less set of tires intended to be used for the rest of the race weekend - common sense.

As an alternate, they could take away one tire from each remaining set and make him race on 3 tires! :)

[DimitraF1]

give the title to kimi he deserve it!!! f1 is not a child game

if you have been watching f1 from Hakkinen , schumacher ERA , this years championship is a joke. i miss 1995-2006

[markabilly]

I was merely playing devil's advocate here BDunnell,

Certain parties feel that McClaren should be punished for this infraction, even when RD, and LH came out and said it is an honest mistake. They feel that a rule is a rule and it has been broken no matter the underlying circumstance

so then what about Japan, when Ferrari broke the rule
and it was on Race Day not FP1

that's all I'm saying

AS to "honest mistake", perhaps if Ferrari had done it, I might be willing to believe it...but only if they admitted it was another "honest", dumb but, mistake of incompetence. :confused:

Not because I root for big red, but after FM ran out of gas in pit lane during Q, and other such bumbling incompetence, tells me that they are on a downward spiral in the absence of the "old team".....that tire thing in Japan was more evidence of dumb bumbling non-sense that was riduculous and plain incompetence, email or no email, deliberate or accidental

Could not even go behind the pace car a couple of laps without spinning, anybody with a brain did not need some stinking email to tell them, it is raining, that is the wet stuff hitting you in the face, duh, the water is pretty deep out there---that is pretty close to not having enough brains to come out of the rain.

Even funnier was ferrari claiming, gee it was soo unfair, no one gave us an email telling us it was raining real heavy, track still had heavy water, and we never noticed nobody else was on the extreme wets..... :crazy:

Next you will hear that ferrari missed the Q sessions because they forgot to change their watches to local time....after hearing all that noise for about thirty minutes, they decided they better investigate....soooo unfair, no one sent them an email.... :rotflmao:

Not surprizing that MS is sitting at home watching the telly, must be toooo painful to see it all up close and live what is going on in the ferrari pits..... :mad:


Mac on the other hand, that crew is way too good,,,,, :rolleyes: only way to believe that is to drink....da kool aid

[markabilly]

Real reason--we just can not have rules get in the way of the champ when so much money is on the line!!!

From Benie
"But I think Hamilton deserves to perhaps hold the crown.

"He has done a superb job, and a great job worldwide for the sport's popularity."



and now about what marketeers are planning from http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/7348044
A leading sports marketing expert believes only Rafael Nadal rivals Lewis Hamilton's global appeal to brands seeking young superstars.

.

Public relations guru Max Clifford last week said the Briton could become one of the "highest-earning sports stars in the world" and Clifford Bloxham, vice-president of Octagon and head of their athletes and personalities division, concurs. However he warned the cash will not immediately start flowing in if he does triumph at Interlagos this weekend.
:s mokin:


We just can not treat him the way we treated Ralfie, now can we??

[jas123f1]

For me the biggest FIA mistake under this season was when they didn’t give ANY punishment to McLaren drivers after the McLaren team was punished with loosing all their construction points and a huge fine of 100 000 000 dollar because of their spying and using of confidential Ferrari material.

For me it’s a big scandal and to fully comparable with doping in other sports.
Cheating is cheating and this season it looks be more a rule than exception but FIA are changing their judgment after how the wind is going and that only because of big money.

I think that if any McLaren driver gets the WDC title 2007, then all these scandals will for ever be burned in minds of millions racer fans as an unfair season there money was baying the WDC title to England and unfortunately it will destroy not only Ron Dennis and Mercedes reputation for years but even make e.g. Schumacher’s and even the other WDC titles less valuable.

The spy scandal is not even over yet – Ferrari will go to court to get justice and the result will probably take the possible McLaren WDC title under spotlight and discussion again and doesn’t help what old English champions or old Bernie are saying..

[Valve Bounce]

give the title to kimi he deserve it!!! f1 is not a child game

if you have been watching f1 from Hakkinen , schumacher ERA , this years championship is a joke. i miss 1995-2006

WHY?

[BDunnell]

I walked into a bank earlier today and pulled a gun on the teller staff behind the counter. I didnt go to jail because they couldnt prove my motive was to rob the bank. I was merely cold, which is why I had the balaclava on and the gun you ask? Well I just wanted to tellers opinion on my nice shiny new gun.... it's a beauty of a piece!

I don't think that is relevant to this at all, because in the case you describe, neither of the options involved is 'an honest mistake'.

[BDunnell]

...and this is exactly why I don't visit this forum very often... you get someone who dislikes a driver and argues about everything despite it all being settled earlier. I just can't be bothered with it all.

I agree. The F1 forum has been spoilt by those with a bias towards one driver/team over another. It negates all sensible discussion — and sensible discussion, in my view, does not involve conspiracy theories.

[ioan]

But the golden boy is the teflon man this year. Nothin' sticks to him!

Good one! :up:
Made my day! :)

[ioan]

MS is one happy man at the moment, he walked out just before this mess came around!
Good move.

[f1kid1987]

Hamilton avovids punishment but team get the fine. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7053377.stm.

[BDunnell]

MS is one happy man at the moment, he walked out just before this mess came around!
Good move.

Well, it's not as if he and the teams for which he drove weren't the subject of many controversies. You only have to think back to 1994 and 1995 when hardly a week went by without something.

[ioan]

Well, it's not as if he and the teams for which he drove weren't the subject of many controversies. You only have to think back to 1994 and 1995 when hardly a week went by without something.

Yeah, but he got punished not once. While this season we got more than in 94 and 95 combined and still the "teflon man" is spotless!

[ioan]

give the title to kimi he deserve it!!! f1 is not a child game

if you have been watching f1 from Hakkinen , schumacher ERA , this years championship is a joke. i miss 1995-2006

No it's not a child's game, to much money involved.

I agree with you on the 95-06 era.

[ioan]

Hamilton expressed his regret for the error made but said he was confident of his team.

"It is an easy mistake to make," he said. "There are lots of rules and regulations. It was a silly, small mistake. The team is doing a fantastic job, we will keep on pushing and these things happen."


He either believe what he says and than I pity him, or he takes all of us for "monkeys" in which case I also pity him.

BTW why was that his engineer claimed that they didn't use 2 sets of wet tires only for RD to acknowledge that they did?
Isn't this a proof that LH's team was cheating and trying to cover it when caught?

What was the other 2 drivers team's stance on their wrongdoings?

[jas123f1]

Hamilton avovids punishment but team get the fine. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7053377.stm.

It's easy to see how it in every punishment is a question about the money NOT about the sportsmanship... and all "rules" are "stretchable"..

Money, money, money -
must be funny -
in the rich mans world… :)

[Valve Bounce]

MS is one happy man at the moment, he walked out just before this mess came around!
Good move.

In all honesty, ioan, much of the controversy left with SchM. While it is easy to make a mistake, SchM's controversial antics were deliberate.

[Valve Bounce]

He either believe what he says and than I pity him, or he takes all of us for "monkeys" in which case I also pity him.




When Lewis Hamilton runs his opponent into a concrete wall to win a race, we should then continue this line of discussion. Until then, give us a break, ioan :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

I agree. The F1 forum has been spoilt by those with a bias towards one driver/team over another. It negates all sensible discussion — and sensible discussion, in my view, does not involve conspiracy theories.


There is only one way to avoid those "conspiracy theories" and that is to apply the rules uniformly across the entire grid without respect to who and what the team is or where they stand in points.

When Mac was hit with the 100 million fine and loss of points, was that such an application?

When Mac was hit, but ferrari was never investigated, was that such an application? Who do you think benie and maxie love more---big red or money?

When Mac was hit, but drivers are spared even though atleast two drivers are shown to be deeply involved, and one was apparently using it for extortion, was that such an application?

Was the promise of immunity for valid reasons, when all that needed to be said, was give it up or lose your superlicense--if anything-(especailly when benie already had some knowledge as to what was there)? Was that such an application?

Before Mac was hit, I was able to predict exactly what would happen, long before it did, using the principles of "the Prince" or for those who can not read, "The Godfather", was that such an application?

When ralfie pays a .5 sec for a tire mistake, and LH does not pay any penalty for a whole extra set of tires to get them scrubbed, was that such an application?

I could list another thirty or more items....but bottom line:



When benie can not contain himself at the thought of Hamilton as wdc, as he has done on many occaisions for months now, just publicly drooling over the money (much in contravention of the basic principles of "the prince" as per godfather's admonition of never tell anyone outside the family what you are really thinking) and, given what the FIA has done "for the good of the sport".......

what little, measley official FIA official is going to dare to step on toes and pop LH (or fail to get a crane when LH needs it)?

So maybe the very last does not constitute a true conspiracy between the measley little FIA official and Benie...maybe it is just the result of a smart boy that is NOT about to start tugging on superman's cape or spitting into the wind to see if it comes back on him... :eek: ....assuming he is not already a Brit and/or in love with the chance to see a rookie Brit win the wdc......

so maybe you are right that on a certain level beneath the big boys, there is not a knowing conspiracy, but when it comes to what is between benie and maxie and actions after actions, it demonstrates that certain people are doing their very best to "fix" the race to generate revenue...and this sunday, we shall know whether they succeeded or not.. :vader:

[fandango]

Indeed. Likewise, my above comment about there rarely being anything really new or shocking in F1 that merits the level of outrage that is heard a lot these days.

I disagree. (I want Alonso to win the title, but I have no problem with Hamilton or Raikkonen.) My problem is with the FIA. If as you rightly say, this has all been seen before, why is there no clear penalty structure in place? Ioan's link to the Ralf example is a case in point. Considering what happened in both cases, the rulings are completely inconsistent. Hamilton (and the other two) has done nothing wrong here, but the rules should be the rules and that's it. To compare with football (as I did before), a handball is a handball, and there have been cases of players penalised when it wasn't deliberate, but them's the rules, sonny.

The FIA have a lot of work to do here. Their actions promote prejudice and partisan accusations.

[markabilly]

but okay, my daughter has found a harry potter website, where they endlessly debate over what would happen to harry, would he die, why and how, and now that the money making hero was not killed off, what will happen in the future (just as though we are debating FA's future)...as though it were some actual historical real live person, not something some writer was making up in a total world of fiction to make money for herself....so I am a really bad person for spoiling the entertainment for the masses with the truth.......

[BDunnell]

When Lewis Hamilton runs his opponent into a concrete wall to win a race, we should then continue this line of discussion. Until then, give us a break, ioan :rolleyes:

:up:

I too am becoming increasingly tired of this. It's not discussion at all.

[BDunnell]

I disagree. (I want Alonso to win the title, but I have no problem with Hamilton or Raikkonen.) My problem is with the FIA. If as you rightly say, this has all been seen before, why is there no clear penalty structure in place? Ioan's link to the Ralf example is a case in point. Considering what happened in both cases, the rulings are completely inconsistent. Hamilton (and the other two) has done nothing wrong here, but the rules should be the rules and that's it. To compare with football (as I did before), a handball is a handball, and there have been cases of players penalised when it wasn't deliberate, but them's the rules, sonny.

The FIA have a lot of work to do here. Their actions promote prejudice and partisan accusations.

As you'll see in the other thread currently running on the subject of the rules, I agree totally with this view.

[ioan]

In all honesty, ioan, much of the controversy left with SchM. While it is easy to make a mistake, SchM's controversial antics were deliberate.

As this season clearly demonstrated! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

When Lewis Hamilton runs his opponent into a concrete wall to win a race, we should then continue this line of discussion. Until then, give us a break, ioan :rolleyes:

Got a problem?! You're mixing apples with space shuttles at the moment! :s

[BDunnell]

I don't think that comments like 'Got a problem?', in response to a perfectly reasonable point, contribute much to having a reasonable discussion (along with much else, but never mind).

There is a risk that sensible contributors will be driven away from here by the tide of partisanism, and I wouldn't like to see that.

[markabilly]

I disagree. (I want Alonso to win the title, but I have no problem with Hamilton or Raikkonen.) My problem is with the FIA. If as you rightly say, this has all been seen before, why is there no clear penalty structure in place? Ioan's link to the Ralf example is a case in point. Considering what happened in both cases, the rulings are completely inconsistent. Hamilton (and the other two) has done nothing wrong here, but the rules should be the rules and that's it. To compare with football (as I did before), a handball is a handball, and there have been cases of players penalised when it wasn't deliberate, but them's the rules, sonny.

The FIA have a lot of work to do here. Their actions promote prejudice and partisan accusations.

Not merely promote but permit it to be done.... :mad: eliminate the hole in the wall, and the mouse does not get in to eat the chesse

[ioan]

I don't think that comments like 'Got a problem?', in response to a perfectly reasonable point...

Perfectly reasonable point?!
What use does it have to the discussion to bash Schumacher? I really didn't find the reason for his post if you ask me. Thus I asked him a fair question.