Obese? Don't worry, it's not your fault?

[Dave B]

(Part 922 in a series of stories about people abdicating responsibilty for their own actions.)

New reserarch has decided that if you're shovelling hamburgers down your throat all day then it's not actually your fault, it's society (for which read "the government") to blame.

No matter that nobody forced you to pay more for a crappy fat-laden ready meal than it would have cost to knock up a healthy alternative. No matter that it only takes a few minutes to boil or steam some veg. No matter that apples are cheaper than choccy bars - it's not your fault.

Balls.

I get angry when I see parents in supermarkets buying all manner of crap for their brattish demanding offspring, and I feel sorry for the kids becuase their impending obesity genuinely isn't their fault.

But any adult with more than 29 brain cells who deliberately and willfully chooses to eat crap and not exercise does very little to earn my sympathy.

I'll probably get shot down in flames for this, with people citing glandular problems or somesuch claptrap, but to try shifting the blame for obesity to "society" is to live in denial.

Further details:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7047244.stm
http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2192574,00.html

[Drew]

On the BBC website it says "Increasing employer responsibility" what the hell does it have to do with the employer, surely it should be "Increasing personal responsibility" ?

[BDunnell]

This is utter nonsense, pure and simple. It isn't the fault of Government, or businesses, or anyone else other than the individual.

[J4MIE]

Totally agree :up:

But it does give me a great excuse for eating that cake in the fridge :bounce:

[Erki]

Don't blame me, blame society.

[jim mcglinchey]

Like alot of things in life, taste in music, viewing habits etc you are subtley pushed one way or the other by the man and his pricing and marketing policies, and its the same with kids diet. For example, did anyone else notice how at the start of term alot of the supermarkets had great offers on giant packets of crisps and choco bars and alot of other crap thats so handy for kids lunches....how many parents on a budget can resist that?

[Daniel]

I think it's better than the conservative moron on the Jezza Whine show talking about shaming people into sorting out their weight problem. What an ignorant tool!

[schmenke]

Like alot of things in life, taste in music, viewing habits etc you are subtley pushed one way or the other by the man and his pricing and marketing policies, and its the same with kids diet. For example, did anyone else notice how at the start of term alot of the supermarkets had great offers on giant packets of crisps and choco bars and alot of other crap thats so handy for kids lunches....how many parents on a budget can resist that?

In supermarkets around here, at every check-out line the ubiquitous "impulse buy" items are available within easy reach, which invariably consist of choco bars, chewing gum, sugary soda pop, and a host of other less-than-healthy items. I wonder how many "impulse" purchases would be made if these were replaced by a fruit stand? :mark:

[Andrewmcm]

I wonder if this idea could be extrapolated to drink-driving? If you drive past a pub then surely you aren't responsible for your actions of stopping, drinking 13 pints of lager and then tootling off home without a care in the world.

Let's face it, no-one's forcing the (adult) fatties to eat junk food all day and not exercise. The blame culture in this country appears to be "blame everyone except yourself". Saddening really.

And there's nothing much wrong in shaming people into accepting that they're overweight. Isn't that what a lot of those programmes on Channel 4 and 5 do? They put people's dietry intake for a week on a table to show them exactly how gross they are. And if you've watched those programmes, some of it really is a bit disgusting.*


*Note: "Dr" McKeith really is a phoney and her "science" in those programmes is nothing of the sort. Andrewmcm does not condone her scientific principles or research methods....

[Mark]

I had a cake today. Nothing else to say :p

[Daniel]

I had a cake today. Nothing else to say :p
I bought 10 jam donuts and now there are only 2 left! :mark:

Thankfully it was my workmates that polished them off and not just me :p

[Daniel]

I wonder if this idea could be extrapolated to drink-driving? If you drive past a pub then surely you aren't responsible for your actions of stopping, drinking 13 pints of lager and then tootling off home without a care in the world.

Let's face it, no-one's forcing the (adult) fatties to eat junk food all day and not exercise. The blame culture in this country appears to be "blame everyone except yourself". Saddening really.

And there's nothing much wrong in shaming people into accepting that they're overweight. Isn't that what a lot of those programmes on Channel 4 and 5 do? They put people's dietry intake for a week on a table to show them exactly how gross they are. And if you've watched those programmes, some of it really is a bit disgusting.*


*Note: "Dr" McKeith really is a phoney and her "science" in those programmes is nothing of the sort. Andrewmcm does not condone her scientific principles or research methods....
Yes but such programs will always be voluntary.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Denying personal responsibility for obesity also encourages the government to eat into our basic rights. "If you guys are so stupid to get obese, we'll take care of you, raise taxes, etc."

[BDunnell]

Like alot of things in life, taste in music, viewing habits etc you are subtley pushed one way or the other by the man and his pricing and marketing policies, and its the same with kids diet. For example, did anyone else notice how at the start of term alot of the supermarkets had great offers on giant packets of crisps and choco bars and alot of other crap thats so handy for kids lunches....how many parents on a budget can resist that?

This is a very good point, as is schmenke's.

[janneppi]

I wonder how many "impulse" purchases would be made if these were replaced by a fruit stand? :mark:
I very much would welcome that, I always seem to forget the fruits when they are in the front sections of the store, if there was an stand with individually packed fruits, I would more likely buy them over any Mars bar.

[SEATFreak]

Having to use an overused modern-day cliche, at the end of the day it comes down to one word.....choice.

It is a persons choice to eat calorie packed, fat saturated, or sugar coated heartattacks in a box and to the degree they do. Look at the "You Are What You Eat" show with Dr Gillian McKeith. You may not like the scabby old bat's method of opening stuff up and just throwing it about when it can go to a starving kid in Somalia but you cannot deny the severity of the calorie intake of the people who come on is down to their choice when people like myself enjoy the same stuff but in much lower quantities. They didn't have to. Nobody made them.

I adore those chocolate covered doughnuts from The Bakers Oven bakery but I very rarely have them. Other than the odd indulgence now and again I would say I am very good with my choices. I am uncomfortable eating fried dinners like eggs, beans, chips etc. and I prefer not to have them, I rarely eat stuff like pasties, I don't buy and have fizzy drinks or cakes, I like home cooked stuff and a lot of healty stuff like yohurts, and have never had a large appetite. Do you know what I have for supper mostly during the week? Two Ryvitas; one with a savoury spread and on wich I have usually ham and a sweet one with a plain spread and on which I have grapes or sometimes strawberries.

Shame on those people.

[Daniel]

Scabby old bat :laugh:

I'll have to remember that one SEATFreak :D Good insult ;) :p

[SEATFreak]

Thank you. I aim to insult. :D :up:

[Perdita_X]

Erm, sorry to interrupt the fattie bashing, but did anyone bother to think about the psychological aspects of obesity?? The fact that it isn't necessarily that obese people are uneducated morons??

Sorry to get heavy, but there are those for whom food is the same as alcohol to an alcoholic or crack to a smackhead and it really isn't that simple as saying 'just choose to put less crap in your gob', and some of the comments that have been made on here are exactly the kind of ones that may make people who are already in a cycle of self loathing depression, and eating feel even worse about themselves and make it even harder for them to make the changes that they desperately want to make. Think Anorexia in reverse. Its real, its just as dangerous, and it isn't something that should have preverbial taken out of it.

I am no longer one of the above type of people (YAY!). I am just a happy fattie! I have learned that if people want to judge me based on my weight, then so be it. Its their loss. I know that I am a good person who doesn't blame anyone else for her fatness, and I find it absurd that you think all fat people want to blame someone else!!!

I have a wonderful life: I live in a beautiful home in a lovely area of Scotland, I have a wonderful husband who loves and adores me and to whom I am completely devoted and in love with, a great job that I gain an awful lot of satisfaction from and that has a career ladder that I am climbing at pace, and all in all I couldn't be happier if I tried! So who are any of you to tell me that I shouldn't be?? And who are any of you to tell me I should be ashamed of that!!!!!!!!! I accept who I am for what I am, and do you know what? I would put money on me being a far happier person than a lot of my skinnier compatriates, because I have accepted that I am what I am, and that as long as I am happy with me, what other people think doesn't matter.

...and for the smarty pants that comes back with 'what about the strain people like you put on the health service?' I say this: with all the junk food I eat I pay a damn site more tax per mouthful than healthy people, so without people like me, the NHS would be even more underfunded wouldn't it! Therefore, because I am a smoker too and so almost single handedly pay for the NHS, I think I have the right to use it however much I like!!!!!

[BDunnell]

The one above is largely a very good post too, I must say.

[Malbec]

None of the concentration camp survivors were fat.... If energy out = or > energy in then you won't get fat.... I do agree overall that obesity is largely about personal choice.

However its impossible to ignore that lifestyles have changed too. 50 years ago most people were manual workers, and even office workers had to expend more energy than they do now. Finding a file meant a trek to a different part of the office. Now its a mouse click away. Manual work often means operating a machine that does all the work. Whereas people used to walk or cycle to work now they drive. There is no denying that people simply expend less energy during a normal working day. Factors like that are generally beyond most people's control, although it remains their personal choice as to how they change their lifestyle to compensate.

[Erki]

I second BDunnell. :up:

Welcome to the forums, Perdita_X. :)

[fandango]

Dave, have you even read the article you've linked to, or is this one of those "winter is coming" rants that always seem to appear at this time of year?

The article does NOT say that people are claiming obesity is not an individual's fault, but rather that the problem of obesity will need more than simply everyone's individual efforts. Here's a quote:

Dr Susan Jebb of the Medical Research Council said that in this environment, it was surprising that anyone was able to remain thin, and so the notion of obesity simply being a product of personal over-indulgence had to be abandoned for good. "The stress has been on the individual choosing a healthier lifestyle, but that simply isn't enough," she said.


When I go home to Ireland I'm amazed at how fat people have got, and I remember how big I was before I left. I'm no Twiggy now, but I have to say it's a lot easier living in Spain to avoid putting on the kilos than in Ireland, so I would agree completely with what the experts are saying here. Spain is well on the way to having the same problems Britain and Ireland has with obesity, btw. And every time I go home, I come back heavier....

[Perdita_X]

Welcome to the forums, Perdita_X. :)

Why Thank you, Erki! :D

[airshifter]

Society may influence quite a lot, but it is next to impossible for society to control those same things.

Here in the US people claim that the same "society" contributes to both overeating and obesity, yet somehow makes others starve themselves.


I have to agree with Perdita_X (and welcome to the forums) that there are often other contributing factors to both eating extremes. And even if there is not and that is just the weight a person is happy at society tends to judge people for a great number of things.

Sometimes it's better to adopt an attitude of not much caring about what society thinks. If society was always right, things wouldn't be so screwed up in general!

[Rollo]

What happens in the case of kiddies? They're in theory not at all responsible for what they eat considering that they're dependant on their parents for pretty much everything. Yet if I go down to the local supermarket, there's a plethora of obese kiddies.

I think it's time to cut the crap. You get tearful parents blaming everyone but themselves and some bearded psycologists giving out weird advice. Who think about blaming stupid, lazy parents?

I have a solution and it involves a simple easy to take pill. It weighs about a pound and is not taken orally - a football. Getting legs running, arms throwing balls and their plentiful chins frivolating.

There's no excuse for fat kiddies... EVER.

[schmenke]

...I have a solution and it involves a simple easy to take pill. It weighs about a pound and is not taken orally - a football. Getting legs running, arms throwing balls and their plentiful chins frivolating.

There's no excuse for fat kiddies... EVER.

I totally agree, however most kiddies these days prefer to play football on the X-Box :mark: .

[BDunnell]

I have a solution and it involves a simple easy to take pill. It weighs about a pound and is not taken orally - a football. Getting legs running, arms throwing balls and their plentiful chins frivolating.

There's no excuse for fat kiddies... EVER.

Sadly, not every child enjoys sport. This has nothing to do with being lazy. I generally hated sport at school because I wasn't any good at most of it, and I found it embarrassing.

There ought to be a greater emphasis on 'keep fit' at school, in my view, rather than teaching kids actual sports all the time in which it's very difficult for many to participate effectively. This might help to encourage children to take part at their own level and get some benefit.

[SEATFreak]

I totally agree, however most kiddies these days prefer to play football on the X-Box :mark: .

....And then when they have been told by their parents to get of the X-Box and go outside to a park the Government bulldozed for housing months ago, they try the grassy area outside where that cantankerous old neighbour Mr Smith comes out and complains that their making a nuisance.

As as fa as the issue kids, weight and excercise are concerned do they have the opportunities to excercise? Those in a good income household may not have problems with money but what about those on low income?

Yes, they may live, like I do, near to a Leisure Centre but could they afford the price of admission if their on low income?

Then of course theirs the food. Could their mothers afford to buy heathier food when foods high in saturated fans, callories or sugar might be cheaper?

[SEATFreak]

Sadly, not every child enjoys sport. This has nothing to do with being lazy. I generally hated sport at school because I wasn't any good at most of it, and I found it embarrassing.

I wasn't god at it either. Though I didn't find it embarassing.

I didn't know why it was at the time but I was always bad at co-ordination. So the fact I wasn't good in that way sort of didn't help my chances of others involving me. But they did bully me also. So when they did involve me it was to bully me. We sometimes played cricket and when I was in bat, in full kit, they used to just throw the balls to me all at once.

But two ocassion I remember I wasn't involved. We nearly always played football but nobody passed to me. When I did get the ball they shouted "leave it!"

We played Volleyball only once but again not one passed to me so I was the only one that stood on the same spot the entire time and in the changing room some kid was saying something and pointed to me and said something like "I was like a pint of milk the entire time". Nobody involved me!!!!

That put me off excercise and I understand others in my position.

[BDunnell]

....And then when they have been told by their parents to get of the X-Box and go outside to a park the Government bulldozed for housing months ago, they try the grassy area outside where that cantankerous old neighbour Mr Smith comes out and complains that their making a nuisance.

A very good point indeed. :up:

It's worth remembering that the bulldozing of playing fields started years ago under the Tories.

[Daniel]

Very good points SEATFreak :up:

I agree wholeheartedly with you. I was one of the people who enjoyed sport at school so I was lucky. I wasn't always good but I still enjoyed it. But I know of others who didn't feel the same sadly!

[leopard]

I like watching women volleyball, can this help me lose weight? :wave:

[slinkster]

There's been lots of good points made on both sides of the arguement, but I tend to agree that it still comes down to choice. We're all affected daily by marketing ploys wether we're fully aware of it or not... however, if you're making an effort to eat healthily and lose weight it's not hard to avoid! Just don't pick the goods up! Besides, special offers on biscuits and crisps etc may be tempting, but I don't think fruit has EVER been more expensive than chocolates, cakes and snacks, so I refute that it's down to cost alone.

When it comes to overweight children... in the majority of cases (excluding certain health conditions) it's the parents fault alone. It's simple. There are other factors of course, but again parents can have an impact on this... exercise as has been mentioned. I agree that there's less spaces for children to play in now, and there's obviously the safety issues too... but taking your children to the park for a good run around on a saturday instead of them sitting playing on their computer? What happened to that?! Is it the parents laziness instead perhaps? Parents have got to get their children interested in being outdoors, doing activities even if it's not too strenuous.

I heard the radio news the other day reporting that a complete re-structure of how PE was taught in schools and getting rid of embarrassing gym kits was going to be proposed and I think this is a good idea. As a teenager, I hated the stupid teeny tiny gymn skirt we had to wear for PE, it was just awful and bloody freezing too. I bet many a self-conscious student, male AND female at some point have detested PE for the embarrassment factor!

[Erki]

Sadly, not every child enjoys sport. This has nothing to do with being lazy. I generally hated sport at school because I wasn't any good at most of it, and I found it embarrassing.

There ought to be a greater emphasis on 'keep fit' at school, in my view, rather than teaching kids actual sports all the time in which it's very difficult for many to participate effectively. This might help to encourage children to take part at their own level and get some benefit.

I disliked sports classes at school too. Mainly because I was just weak. :) And there was quite a bit of competition too... and I'm not into competing, especially if I get the last place all the time. ;) It was also a bit bad that sports classes usually consisted of football, basketball, volleyball, whateverball. And I don't like ball games. And I don't like team games. And I absolutely hated running.

However, some things I did like... even though I never got to do it at school, I liked to ride my bike... at school, I liked to rowing... and from and to school, I liked to walk(cars are for fatties ;) ).


....And then when they have been told by their parents to get of the X-Box and go outside to a park the Government bulldozed for housing months ago, they try the grassy area outside where that cantankerous old neighbour Mr Smith comes out and complains that their making a nuisance.

Absolutely.


As as fa as the issue kids, weight and excercise are concerned do they have the opportunities to excercise? Those in a good income household may not have problems with money but what about those on low income?

Yes, they may live, like I do, near to a Leisure Centre but could they afford the price of admission if their on low income?

If you have healthy body and functioning limbs, you can exercise everywhere. And it makes you more creative too when you have to think about where and how I can exercise.


Then of course theirs the food. Could their mothers afford to buy heathier food when foods high in saturated fans, callories or sugar might be cheaper?

I don't know, maybe fathers could. :p

[Erki]

When it comes to overweight children... in the majority of cases (excluding certain health conditions) it's the parents fault alone. It's simple. There are other factors of course, but again parents can have an impact on this... exercise as has been mentioned. I agree that there's less spaces for children to play in now, and there's obviously the safety issues too... but taking your children to the park for a good run around on a saturday instead of them sitting playing on their computer? What happened to that?! Is it the parents laziness instead perhaps? Parents have got to get their children interested in being outdoors, doing activities even if it's not too strenuous.

Sometimes, the reason is that parents lack time to do things with their children. You know, have to do the adult big world stuff, business and things. :) I just read this little article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/10/17/MN0ISQEFP.DTL&type=business



I heard the radio news the other day reporting that a complete re-structure of how PE was taught in schools and getting rid of embarrassing gym kits was going to be proposed and I think this is a good idea. As a teenager, I hated the stupid teeny tiny gymn skirt we had to wear for PE, it was just awful and bloody freezing too. I bet many a self-conscious student, male AND female at some point have detested PE for the embarrassment factor!

Although I got to wear whatever I wanted at PE classes at school, I was still a bit embarrasses(because of my performance). Also I felt that I was forced to do something I didn't want to...(goes with most classes at school...). I don't think moving yourself should be a chore or work. Moving yourself should be fun. But as the headmaster of the school I went to once said, "school is not a sanatorium". :s tare:

[slinkster]

Sometimes, the reason is that parents lack time to do things with their children. You know, have to do the adult big world stuff, business and things. :) I just read this little article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/10/17/MN0ISQEFP.DTL&type=business

Then I guess it comes down to priorities. Your kids health or work. *shrug* I'm not a parent so fair do's I don't know how hard it all is. But one of the reasons I choose not to be a parent is because I don't have the time or money to be one. Both my parents worked fulltime when I was a kid, but my Dad still used to take us out walking the dog in the evening and to the park at the weekend. It wasn't much, but it got us out the house. We were lucky to have a nice big park nearby and a garden to play in sure, and I know many kids won't have that... but it doesn't take much to take your kids out. Even if it's walking. It takes time yes... and that's something that alot of parents don't have for their children which is sad.



Although I got to wear whatever I wanted at PE classes at school, I was still a bit embarrasses(because of my performance). Also I felt that I was forced to do something I didn't want to...(goes with most classes at school...). I don't think moving yourself should be a chore or work. Moving yourself should be fun. But as the headmaster of the school I went to once said, "school is not a sanatorium". :s tare:

I hated the PE teachers too. They favored the more active ones, they detested any child who found sport difficult. That needs to change. But having said that, when we had the choice what we wanted to do I didn't mind the actual activities. We got to choose what sport we wanted to do out of certain options each term and I didn't feel forced to do the things I hated. But again, I guess not all schools have the options and resources for this. I actually commend my school for allowing me to choose what PE we wanted to do. Anyone that can get a kid who hates PE to actually not dread the lessons should be commended in my book. It IS possible. I HATED most sports with a passion (netball, athletics, gymn) but with choice, there was actually things I enjoyed doing (trampolining, fitness, aerobics, tennis).

[SEATFreak]

Also, as well as the certain individual persons, do we not give Supermarkets a portion of blame?

I mean where are Mars bars and bars of Nestle's Galaxy to be found? Not just in the confectionary department....but also slap bang in that little shelf by the checkout aisle where you can also find other sweets like chewing gum! I mean that is just asking for kids to use their formidable "pester power" on their poor parents. Tactical placing methinks of certain food.

Also...price. I see Tesco has for 74p a pack of 6 Buttermilk Pancakes. I know nothing about supermarket prices but that is quite cheap is it not? Is it not cheaper than say one bag of oranges?

Their isn't, I think, just a problem with the person. Theirs also, I think, a problem with the source. Where people get their food. Food laiden with sugar, or saturated fat or calories might represent better value than say a bag of one item of fresh fruit and is certainly more widespread than healthier food.

[Daniel]

Ah SEATFreak. But you'll get the nanny-state brigade on your back saying "Don't bloody well tell me what to eat" and so on :rolleyes:

Our local Sainsburys doesn't have anything other than magazines on the checkouts :) Which is a good thing I think.

[millencolin]

I wonder how many "impulse" purchases would be made if these were replaced by a fruit stand? :mark:

I bought a kilo of bananas as an impulse purchase. Albiet my checkout was the only one close to the fruit and vege stand, and even then I had to give up my place in the line to get it... and i was buying 'study materials' which consist of red bull and snickers... but hey i impulse bought fruit! im gonna have one now! lets see if bananas go well with red bull

[schmenke]

Parents who "don't have time for their kids" have their priorities mixed up :mark:

Also, further to SFreak's comment, yes, a couple of Mars bars costs about $2.00. A bag of apples costs about the same :mark:

Millencolin, good for you :) (...um, let us know how the RB 'n Banana concection turns out :erm: )

[airshifter]

Also, as well as the certain individual persons, do we not give Supermarkets a portion of blame?

I mean where are Mars bars and bars of Nestle's Galaxy to be found? Not just in the confectionary department....but also slap bang in that little shelf by the checkout aisle where you can also find other sweets like chewing gum! I mean that is just asking for kids to use their formidable "pester power" on their poor parents. Tactical placing methinks of certain food.



Since I contract to Nestle, I'll have to say that it's still about choice.

The store I primarily work in is very large, a "super" supermarket if you will. As Halloween is coming soon, there is a lot of candy out. I would say Nestle probably has upwards of 2 or 3 THOUSAND pounds out on display in the store.

But the same company, at the same store, probably has close to 12 or 13 thousand pounds of water on display in the store, and it actually sells much better on a regular basis.

If people don't want to discipline themselves or their kids, they can blame me if it makes them feel better. But if they really want a reason for it happening they should look somewhere else. ;)

[Bezza]

There is nothing wrong with the occasionnal packet of crisps, or chocolate bar, as long as people exercise!

Obesity ain't a disease thats just an excuse, yes some are more genetically vulnerable towards it, but at the end of the day - if you exercise you will not be obese. And if you sit on your ass all day eating three full english breakfasts taking in benefits because you are too "ill" to work then you don't deserve any sympathy.

[SEATFreak]

I'll have to say that it's still about choice.

Theirs that "C" word again.

I AM sorry but I have a massive hangup about people saying things like "I am fat through choice" or "If I indeed want to be fat I can be because it is my choice".

I saw a debate show this morning and a woman basicaly said the same thing.

It ain't about taking away your choice to eat stuff like pastries and burgers.

I think it is about making you aware of the consequences of your choice years later.

[BDunnell]

Theirs that "C" word again.

I AM sorry but I have a massive hangup about people saying things like "I am fat through choice" or "If I indeed want to be fat I can be because it is my choice".

I saw a debate show this morning and a woman basicaly said the same thing.

It ain't about taking away your choice to eat stuff like pastries and burgers.

I think it is about making you aware of the consequences of your choice years later.

Very well put.

[SEATFreak]

:D

[Perdita_X]

Obesity ain't a disease thats just an excuse

Is that so?? I haven't said that everyone who is overweight is that way due to some kind of phychological illness, but there are a significant number who are. Would you say the same thing about anorexia, because it is the exact same psychological factors that cause some people to eat to excess and become obese as those that cause others to not eat at all, or to eat nothing for a prolongued period, then binge eat followed by self induced vomiting. Nobody views the obese version in the same way because it is less socially acceptable to be fat than it is to be a size 0.

As far as people who are fat and happy, Seat freak mentioned about making people aware of the consequences of their choices. Well believe me, most overweight people are. Lets face it, there is basically no escape from people telling you that you are going to drop dead of a heart attack before you're 40 in todays society, so saying that fat bashing is all for peoples own good is frankly bolony.

As I have already said, I am fat, I am happy and everything in my life is great. That I choose not to change myself or my life in any way is no one elses business! Just because you are thin, don't presume your life is better/happier than mine or that you are a better person than me. I have made my own choices about my life in the same way that everyone else has made their own decisions. I respect theirs, why can't they respect mine? Or does carrying extra weight not make me worthy of respect in their view? If that's the case, then I pity their limited understanding and blinkered view of the world.

We live in a wonderful multi cultural, multi sexual society where a person has the freedom to be who they are and who they want to be without fear of ridicule or prejudice...shame this is not yet true if you are overweight.

[BDunnell]

But it is undoubtedly a good thing to remind people that being overweight is not ideal. What you then do about it is up to you — I wish I found it easier to take the necessary steps to lose weight, but I am well aware that I ought to. I'm certainly not saying that we should be unpleasant or prejudiced on this issue, but recent statistics prove that it is a growing problem for society. Therefore, it is right to highlight it.

[airshifter]

BDunnell,

I somewhat agree, but also see a great deal of validity in Perdita_X's view. She is aware of the possible consequences and has made a choice. As an adult, that should be a right we have within reason.

I don't see people posting about corporations creating job stress which should be stopped by lowering wages and expecting less from workers, but stress is a big contributing factor in many health issues, just like overeating or smoking is.

Every day or our adult lives we choose to accept differing risks in a variety of things. Each of those risks has potential consequences, and we must weigh then in our decision.

Personally I'd rather have the choice than to live in a soceity that becomes so sterile and void of risk that it's lifeless.

[BDunnell]

I somewhat agree, but also see a great deal of validity in Perdita_X's view. She is aware of the possible consequences and has made a choice. As an adult, that should be a right we have within reason.

Of course, but obesity is an increasing problem (not least for health services) and it's worth making people aware of it as far as possible, which isn't that difficult. I don't see doing so as being equivalent to removing freedoms in other areas — they just aren't comparable in my eyes. It is for the best if we are all as healthy as possible. I don't think that's too controversial a viewpoint.



I don't see people posting about corporations creating job stress which should be stopped by lowering wages and expecting less from workers, but stress is a big contributing factor in many health issues, just like overeating or smoking is.

This does get an increasing amount of prominence, and quite correctly.



Every day or our adult lives we choose to accept differing risks in a variety of things. Each of those risks has potential consequences, and we must weigh then in our decision.

Again, I agree, but taking action to attempt to bring about lower levels of obesity is, simply, a good thing. If people choose not to heed it, that's up to them; nobody is forcing them into it. However, some things are just good for people and some aren't.

[airshifter]

Again, I agree, but taking action to attempt to bring about lower levels of obesity is, simply, a good thing. If people choose not to heed it, that's up to them; nobody is forcing them into it. However, some things are just good for people and some aren't.

This is the main aspect that makes me differ in opinion. I do agree that in the public health system, obesity or any other specific medical problem creates a greater strain on the system. But really, anyone other than a perfectly healthy person creates a strain above that healthy person, and any system funded by all is created to share risk and financial strain.

An overweight person with private insurance will pay more for that insurance, just as a smoker would. Likewise a person with a record of speeding tickets and accidents will pay more for insurance on a vehicle.

There are burdens on the public systems that are far greater than people than people overeating in my opinion. Just as with most public systems, that is why I feel that individuals should be more responsible for themselves.

[BDunnell]

This is the main aspect that makes me differ in opinion. I do agree that in the public health system, obesity or any other specific medical problem creates a greater strain on the system. But really, anyone other than a perfectly healthy person creates a strain above that healthy person, and any system funded by all is created to share risk and financial strain.

Fair point, but no-one is suggesting an outright ban on unhealthy foods. That would be going too far.



There are burdens on the public systems that are far greater than people than people overeating in my opinion.

There are, but it is possible for governments to deal with more than one problem at once.


Just as with most public systems, that is why I feel that individuals should be more responsible for themselves.

I think the talk in relation to obesity is actually aimed at making people be more responsible for themselves, and, in particular, responsible towards themselves. The latter is also important.

[tinchote]

An overweight person with private insurance will pay more for that insurance, just as a smoker would. Likewise a person with a record of speeding tickets and accidents will pay more for insurance on a vehicle.


That's classic "USA view". It happens that in most other countries there is free health for everybody, courtesy of the taxpayers. In that situation, ways of life that will make it harder for the system to cope should be addressed.


There are burdens on the public systems that are far greater than people than people overeating in my opinion. Just as with most public systems, that is why I feel that individuals should be more responsible for themselves.

Of course, and precisely because of that there is a lot of campaigning against tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc. Why not campaigning against obesity.

By the way, just in case, I'm obese myself. But I fight against it, and I don't really feel it "my right" to be like that. It's a bad example for my daughters and a risk to my health, the same that tobacco, drugs, or alcohol would. The good news is that I've lost 5kg on the last two months :)

[airshifter]

Tinchote,

I understand that in countries with public provided healthcare it's a different burden, but unless everything unhealthy is stopped, the burden exists in some other form does it not?

I guess it's just a matter of viewpoint. Though I'm not overweight, I smoke. I feel it's my right to do so as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. I pay more for my insurance, and accept that as a penalty for my choice.

I don't overeat, and I'm not overweight. I'm probably in better physical shape than a lot of people half my age.

I hardly ever drink alcohol at all, and never drive when I've had something to drink.

I've worked my entire life and paid taxes to support all kinds of things.

I feel that it's my right to take a risk to my health if it's something I enjoy. And I also feel that if people start picking and choosing what rights we no longer have, it will just be a matter of time before we all have none.



I'm cutting back on my smoking too Tin, must for the same reasons. My primary motivation is my daughter, who I've stressed the importance of not starting such a bad habit to.

[tinchote]

Tinchote,

I understand that in countries with public provided healthcare it's a different burden, but unless everything unhealthy is stopped, the burden exists in some other form does it not?

(...)

I'm cutting back on my smoking too Tin, must for the same reasons. My primary motivation is my daughter, who I've stressed the importance of not starting such a bad habit to.

Fair points :)

I guess that we agree that one of the governments' responsibility is to care for the well-being of its citizens. And so, it is reasonable to fight (with advertising, treatment, etc.) things that most likely reduce the quality of life of people.

[fandango]

...... I wish I found it easier to take the necessary steps to lose weight, but I am well aware that I ought to. I'm certainly not saying that we should be unpleasant or prejudiced on this issue, but recent statistics prove that it is a growing problem for society. Therefore, it is right to highlight it.

And the study cited in the article at the top of this thread is a reference to precisely that. At least, that's how I understood it. No-one in the article says it's not someone's fault, but rather that it's very difficult for people to individually do anything about it.

The forces at work, the bad habits, the self-esteem problems, you have to be really very strong to overcome the downers and not just give up. And as PerditaX demonstrates, it's more about finding the weight you're happy with as yourself than trying to adhere to an external standard.

[schmenke]

I have no problem with adults like Perdita_X choosing a certain lifestyle, knowing that it may be detrimental to their health. I just hope that parents with a similar lifestyle are making appropriate choices for their children :mark:

[NoahsGirl]

You won't get shot down in flames with me Dave, I'm a lard @rse and wilfully scarf chocolate! I do eat salads and fruit - they are not banned in my life!