Nick Heidfeld

[truefan72]

Just a quick thread about Quick Nick.

I was thinking about the drivers on the grid who have won F1 races and for some reason I thought Nick Heidfeld had won one. But after 133 GP's he has never won an F1 race.

How come he somehow escapes the wrath of the masses and the media where othters would have surely been called out.

I like the guy, but think that with 133 GP's under his belt, he should have won one.

Yes, I know it's about timing and cars, luck, etc, but when we see Red bull's and STR's mixing it up for podiums in the last two races, and given that those conditions could have favored anyone, add to it Germany this year, and you start to wonderif he will ever win a race.

Button, DC, Fisi, Rubens, Ralf, and Trulli have all won races

so what about Heidfeld guys?

[Kevincal]

Heidfeld has never had a car that could win. Simple as that. ;) The other guys you listed all had cars capable of winning. Put Nick in a McLaren or Ferrari, and he would definitely win some races.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Given the equipment he's had, it would have been impossible to score a victory through talent alone. He would've needed a little bit of luck, like Button in Hungary, Panis in Monaco or Fisi in Brazil.

[tinchote]

Given the equipment he's had, it would have been impossible to score a victory through talent alone. He would've needed a little bit of luck, like Button in Hungary, Panis in Monaco or Fisi in Brazil.

Exactly. And Rubens and Jarno only won races on years when their teammate became WDC. And in the races that Ralf won, the Williams was clearly among the fastest cars.

[Tazio]

Just a quick thread about Quick Nick.

I was thinking about the drivers on the grid who have won F1 races and for some reason I thought Nick Heidfeld had won one. But after 133 GP's he has never won an F1 race.

How come he somehow escapes the wrath of the masses and the media where othters would have surely been called out.

I like the guy, but think that with 133 GP's under his belt, he should have won one.

Yes, I know it's about timing and cars, luck, etc, but when we see Red bull's and STR's mixing it up for podiums in the last two races, and given that those conditions could have favored anyone, add to it Germany this year, and you start to wonderif he will ever win a race.

Button, DC, Fisi, Rubens, Ralf, and Trulli have all won races

so what about Heidfeld guys?
Beside the fact he has had absurdly bad luck. Nick has always been in a mid field car. He fights hard for position, which has led to alot of retirements, either mechanical, or collision. He got raped at Shanhai in 2006. It was too bad because he drove a he!! of a race and got clobbered on like the second to last turn on the final lap. Since BMW Sauber has uped their game, he seems to struggle with set-up especiall in the area of Mechanical grip. IMO Kubica has been better suited for that car than Nick. Perhaps things will chage in that regard after TC is removed from the formula.

[jens]

Indeed, unlike some other drivers (Webber, Vettel, Button) Heidfeld hasn't exactly shone in the last two races, but Nick has had some unluck too - in Japan his car was damaged after collision with Jenson and in China an extra stop cost him a decent position...

But about race wins. Well, wait for next year. ;) If BMW's continues its progress, Heidfeld might become a serious title contender. Häkkinen failed to win for ages and before '98 he had had 6 full seasons and only one win (and even that was a gift from DC and JV) under his belt, but that didn't prevent him from becoming WDC.


Exactly. And Rubens and Jarno only won races on years when their teammate became WDC. And in the races that Ralf won, the Williams was clearly among the fastest cars.

What? Jarno's team-mate didn't win WDC that year, when he won that race. ;) In fact, he managed even to outscore that "World Champion". ;) Renault had a race-winning car only for once that year and Jarno used the chance perfectly! :D

[tinchote]

What? Jarno's team-mate didn't win WDC that year, when he won that race. ;) In fact, he managed even to outscore that "World Champion". ;) Renault had a race-winning car only for once that year and Jarno used the chance perfectly! :D

My bad. It's a typical problem coming with senility ;) :p :

[Ed]

hiedfeld winning a race! look at the cars he's had

Prost
Sauber
Sauber
Sauber
Jordan - managed to mix it with cars that it didnt deserve to race against
Williams (when the weren't capable of race wins)
BMW Sauber
BMW Sauber

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It could have been much different for Hiedfeld if McLaren had chosen him over Raikkonnen

[Will L]

Heidfeld is a quick driver, does consistently well and it shows in his results which are consistently fast and high up the leaderboard.

All the best to the guy he deserves some wins :D

[Valve Bounce]

Only two makes coild win races this year barring catastrophes, and the BMW isn't one of them. Last year there were also two and BMW again wasn't one.

Maybe if BMW Stepped up on their e-mails, they might get somewhere next year if they are lucky enough to get some Coughed up their way. :p :

[truefan72]

good discussion,

but it does seem like an awful number of GP's without a race win.
Yes this year's BMW is a touch behind the Mac's and Ferrari's but not too far behind. I thought that they would have had a chance to win a race this year, somehow.

If I recall In 2001 Willimas finished 3rd in the WCC and had 4 wins, 3 from Ralf, 1 from Montoya
2002 was a good year for them in the WCC but only 1 race win form the team by Ralf in Malaysia
2003 they had another solid year with 2 more wins from Ralf

but the key here was the 2001 season, I'd say the Ferrari's and McClarens were faster, but Willimas still squeezed out 4 wins

maybe next year will be his and BMW's year to get their maiden win. I somehow feel that Kubica will win before Heidfeld.

[jens]

but the key here was the 2001 season, I'd say the Ferrari's and McClarens were faster, but Willimas still squeezed out 4 wins


On fast circuits (Montreal, Hockenheim, Monza, also Imola) Williams-BMW had the best package and they won there. Also I think Williams was the quickest car at Interlagos and Spa (both cars stalled on the grid) and maybe Spielberg (1-2 again before cars hit trouble). Williams was fairly close to winning at Nürburgring, Magny-Cours, Suzuka and maybe Indianapolis.

On those days it wasn't so like today that a good car is good everywhere, then the performance of cars varied more on different circuits. I'd say that Williams would have finished second in the WCC with better reliability.

[tinchote]

On fast circuits (Montreal, Hockenheim, Monza, also Imola) Williams-BMW had the best package and they won there. Also I think Williams was the quickest car at Interlagos and Spa (both cars stalled on the grid) and maybe Spielberg (1-2 again before cars hit trouble). Williams was fairly close to winning at Nürburgring, Magny-Cours, Suzuka and maybe Indianapolis.

On those days it wasn't so like today that a good car is good everywhere, then the performance of cars varied more on different circuits. I'd say that Williams would have finished second in the WCC with better reliability.

Exactly. And back then reliability was an issue (not only in 2001, check several of McLaren's seasons in the 2000s)

[truefan72]

Alright. I concede, the willimas was good in those years,

But is the 2007 BMW really that far behind the top 2 or are the drivers also a factor. As we know, Nick always needs some kind of motivation to bring out the best in him, otherwhise he is fairly content in doing a solid but not sterling job.

[Valve Bounce]

This does lead me to the question: if given a McLaren drive this year, which of the current F1 drivers could win races? Over!

[Tazio]

Everyone "could" except Yamo' IMO

[truefan72]

the issue might not be about winning the odd race hear or there, but could they be cionsistently fast and week after week perform at the very peak of their abilities?

that's what makes the top 3 special and where massa is heading. Nick seems to take a few races off in terms of competitiveness and kubica still doesn't have the consistency,
Webber might be there, but I'm not sure,
Rosberg is well on his way there,
So is Heike

[Valve Bounce]

If given a McLaren drive this year, Nick might very well be fighting for teh championship next weekend. That's my point.

[Hawkmoon]

The question about Heidfeld's perfromances can be largely answered by asking how many of his teammates have won the years they drove alongside him? I'm pretty sure that the answer is none.

The only difference between Heidfeld and Button is that Button has been hyped to a much greater degree. Heidfeld has received virtually no hype and has thus escaped from the criticism that has been directed at Button.

[Tazio]

Speaking of the devil!!!

For Nick Heidfeld however, Interlagos is one of the best circuits on the calendar….

“For me, the circuit in São Paulo is one of the best of all. It is challenging – both in terms of driving skill and physically,” he said. “It’s an anti-clockwise track and the straight is actually a long sweeping curve that puts your neck muscles under real strain. Then there’s the bumpy surface. The best sections come after turn three. Turn five, which is an uphill double right- hander, is one of my favourites. I took my first podium finish in Interlagos in 2001 after coming third. That’s something you never forget.”
http://f1.automoto365.com/news/controller.php?lang=en&theme=default&month=10&year=2007&nextMode=GpNewsForm&news_id=28388

[rohanweb]

Can we see Nick replaces Alonso at McLaren?
Nick deserve a place there..

[Tazio]

Can we see Nick replaces Alonso at McLaren?
Nick deserve a place there..
From your mouth to god's ears!

[jens]

Can we see Nick replaces Alonso at McLaren?
Nick deserve a place there..

But what if BMW becomes a title contender and McLaren drops backwards? In that case a wrong place at a wrong time again... And that's why I'm happy that he continues at BMW.

[Tazio]

But what if BMW becomes a title contender and McLaren drops backwards? In that case a wrong place at a wrong time again... And that's why I'm happy that he continues at BMW.
Than it would be typical NH luck!

[truefan72]

Than it would be typical NH luck!

yep

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Can we see Nick replaces Alonso at McLaren?
Nick deserve a place there..

He could easily have gone to McLaren in 2002 instead of Kimi.

[Roamy]

Just a quick thread about Quick Nick.

I was thinking about the drivers on the grid who have won F1 races and for some reason I thought Nick Heidfeld had won one. But after 133 GP's he has never won an F1 race.

How come he somehow escapes the wrath of the masses and the media where othters would have surely been called out.

I like the guy, but think that with 133 GP's under his belt, he should have won one.

Yes, I know it's about timing and cars, luck, etc, but when we see Red bull's and STR's mixing it up for podiums in the last two races, and given that those conditions could have favored anyone, add to it Germany this year, and you start to wonderif he will ever win a race.

Button, DC, Fisi, Rubens, Ralf, and Trulli have all won races

so what about Heidfeld guys?

well seeing how JV was 3 to 5 tenths quicker then you only have to do simple math - fire Theiseen

[jso1985]

He could easily have gone to McLaren in 2002 instead of Kimi.

he couldn't choose, it was decided by Ron Dennis

[Roamy]

Like I said JV was 3 to 6 tenths quicker than Nick. Now that Kubica doesn't have Jv's car he can't keep up with Nick = do the math = Fire Thiessen. If BMW wins the WDC with this line-up I will eat sh!t.

[ioan]

Like I said JV was 3 to 6 tenths quicker than Nick. Now that Kubica doesn't have Jv's car he can't keep up with Nick = do the math = Fire Thiessen. If BMW wins the WDC with this line-up I will eat sh!t.

Where was JV faster than Nick? In a race over 2 seasons maybe?

[ioan]

He could easily have gone to McLaren in 2002 instead of Kimi.

Go and pay them a visit maybe?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Go and pay them a visit maybe?

:erm:

My point was that Heidfeld beat Kimi in 2001, but it was Kimi 1st season. Even so, it was a massive risk for Ron Dennis taking Kimi, even more than taking Lewis this season.

[Garry Walker]

but the key here was the 2001 season, I'd say the Ferrari's and McClarens were faster, but Willimas still squeezed out 4 wins

Williams was overall the fastest car in 2001, only Schumis brilliance in the Ferrari stopped them from winning far more.


He could easily have gone to McLaren in 2002 instead of Kimi.
How?


Like I said JV was 3 to 6 tenths quicker than Nick. Now that Kubica doesn't have Jv's car he can't keep up with Nick = do the math = Fire Thiessen. If BMW wins the WDC with this line-up I will eat sh!t.

LOL!!!!!
JV was slower than Heidfeld in pretty much every race and there was no race where he was even 2 tenths faster.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

He could easily have gone to McLaren in 2002 instead of Kimi.




How?



Heidfeld was many peoples favourite to take the McLaren seat after Mika retired as he had outperformed Kimi.

[Garry Walker]

Heidfeld was many peoples favourite to take the McLaren seat after Mika retired as he had outperformed Kimi.

Many peoples, but not McLarens favourite. So there was no chance for him. What people wanted is irrelevant

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Lets also remember that Heidfeld beat Massa as well in 2002 when they were teammates

[Roamy]

Hey Garry do you want to start here?
Austria - Fastest laps in the race
1. Michael Schumacher - 1'08"337 - lap 41
2. Rubens Barrichello - 1'08"913 - lap 44
3. Mark Webber - 1'08"966 - lap 68 (the jag's are fast...)
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 1'09"423 - lap 45
5. David Coulthard - 1'09"626 - lap 64
6. Jacques Villeneuve - 1'09"764 - lap 64 (and he was doing everything manually...)
7. Jenson Button - 1'09"828 - lap 22
8. Antonio Pizzonia - 1'09"978 - lap 67
9. Juan Pablo Montoya - 1'10"112 - lap 28
10. Ralf Schumacher - 1'10"246 - lap 40

[Garry Walker]

Hey Garry do you want to start here?
Austria - Fastest laps in the race
1. Michael Schumacher - 1'08"337 - lap 41
2. Rubens Barrichello - 1'08"913 - lap 44
3. Mark Webber - 1'08"966 - lap 68 (the jag's are fast...)
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 1'09"423 - lap 45
5. David Coulthard - 1'09"626 - lap 64
6. Jacques Villeneuve - 1'09"764 - lap 64 (and he was doing everything manually...)
7. Jenson Button - 1'09"828 - lap 22
8. Antonio Pizzonia - 1'09"978 - lap 67
9. Juan Pablo Montoya - 1'10"112 - lap 28
10. Ralf Schumacher - 1'10"246 - lap 40
What the hell are you on about?

When was JV 0,3 seconds quicker than Heidfeld in equal cars?

[ioan]

Hey Garry do you want to start here?
Austria - Fastest laps in the race
1. Michael Schumacher - 1'08"337 - lap 41
2. Rubens Barrichello - 1'08"913 - lap 44
3. Mark Webber - 1'08"966 - lap 68 (the jag's are fast...)
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 1'09"423 - lap 45
5. David Coulthard - 1'09"626 - lap 64
6. Jacques Villeneuve - 1'09"764 - lap 64 (and he was doing everything manually...)
7. Jenson Button - 1'09"828 - lap 22
8. Antonio Pizzonia - 1'09"978 - lap 67
9. Juan Pablo Montoya - 1'10"112 - lap 28
10. Ralf Schumacher - 1'10"246 - lap 40

What year is that? I don't remember any Austrian GP being run in F1 in 2005 and 2006.

[jens]

It must be 2003 Austrian Grand Prix (Webber in Jaguar) that fousto has mentioned...

Anyway, I have said it in the past and IMO McLaren should have hired both Räikkönen and Heidfeld for 2002. I think that combination would have brought Mc-s the WCC both in 2003 and 2005. But as Ron didn't make such decision, then... the titles weren't won of course. But better for their rivals. :p :

For some reason McLaren-Mercedes has never been fond of seeing Germans in their own team. That's why I also doubt drivers like Glock, Sutil or R. Schumacher have any chance of getting there for 2008.

[ioan]

For some reason McLaren-Mercedes has never been fond of seeing Germans in their own team. That's why I also doubt drivers like Glock, Sutil or R. Schumacher have any chance of getting there for 2008.

Well, they wanted a German driver a few years back but he didn't want them! :D

[BDunnell]

Well, they wanted a German driver a few years back but he didn't want them! :D

And everyone can understand why. Going there would have been a mistake, and he didn't make an awful lot of those, as history has shown.

[rohanweb]

If given a McLaren drive this year, Nick might very well be fighting for teh championship next weekend. That's my point.

you might be right Valve.
I think Nick would do a good job at Mclaren... he hasnt got attitude problem like Alonso, and should be a very good team mate, and can really be 'up there' on the front rows, which is great for Mclaren!!!

poor guy needs to win few races to his name, he drives extremely well but happened to be unlucky long time!

RD to chat to Thiessen right now ;)

i dont think bmw will be beating mclarens next year anyway!

[wmcot]

Can we see Nick replaces Alonso at McLaren?
Nick deserve a place there..

I don't know if he would go for the shave and required team haircut complete with Elvis' sideburns! :)

[ioan]

I don't know if he would go for the shave and required team haircut complete with Elvis' sideburns! :)

Not to mention Ron's trophy collection mania!