Formula Farce ???

[555-04Q2]

Could we please have a poll mods on the following subject !!!

Has Formula One become Formula Farce :?:

Yes or No ?

[F1MAN2007]

Could we please have a poll mods on the following subject !!!

Has Formula One become Formula Farce :?:

Yes or No ?

For the people who love the sport: it has become TOTALLY A FARCE. :down:

For the people who think first money: it has become VERY PROFITABLE :up:

[ioan]

Yes.

[seppefan]

Yes

[V12]

Yup

[W8&C]

Not F1 – there´s still a lot of great racing, especially this year.
But Mosley, the megalomaniac „Führer“, with his personal vendetta makes a ridiculous madhouse out of the FIA.

[Bradley]

Yes

Too many arbitrary interventions, often even unfair.

[markabilly]

NO!!

it remains, as always Formula $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$for One

[teamsuperimu]

NO!!!!!

You'd be hard presed to find a race in any era that was as amusing as Canada or Japan. But, F1 is often about the drama that happens off the track as much as the on track drama. And what off track drama there's been this year. You got team racing illegal car, team managers attacking drivers and that's just torro rosso. Mclaern has had enough drama to keep the newspapers busy all year from the rise of hamilton, the angry alonso, Qualigate, Stemnigate, the 100 mill fine and on and on it goes. I don't think you can ask much more from a season.

[Crypt]

No. This season has been the most entertaining in years. That's why we watch racing, to be entertained.

This season has it in spades.

[schmenke]

No. This season has been the most entertaining in years. ....

I disagree. Bernie and Max have ensured that this season has been the most disappointing in recent memory.

[Crypt]

I disagree. Bernie and Max have ensured that this season has been the most disappointing in recent memory.

Why has it been disapointing? Did you want McLaren to be punished further? Hammy and Fred out of the Championship? Ferrari to blow up every race?

Let's hear it :D

[N. Jones]

No.

[truefan72]

NO

The races themselves have been good entertainment and the champinship is full off intruige.

...but all the off track stuff, especially the legal wranglings, the arbitrary rulings by the FIA, the mouth and actions of Max Mosley, the threats of losing Silverstone and France, the loss of USA GP, the chase for the almighty dollar by Bernie, and the completely blown out of proportion spy scandal have all made it hard to purely enjoy the races for what they are.

As soon as the red lights go out on Sunday, it's a bit of relief from all the nonsense and I can focus on 2 hours of driving and drama. As much as it pains me to see Hamilton crawl out of the race in china, that was high drama, that no amount of manufactured programming could ever deliver.

I find it odd that this thread woould appeear leading into the most exciting season finale in a very long time and a season (on the track) that provided us with 4 legitimate contendors, several rain races, smaller teams scoring points, and thrilling races.

If you think this season is a farce, I wonder what you thought of the 8 years preceeding this one.

[schmenke]

Why has it been disapointing? Did you want McLaren to be punished further? Hammy and Fred out of the Championship? Ferrari to blow up every race?

Let's hear it :D

I want to see a championship contested on track, without interference from a governing body with little or no experience in the sport. I want to see a season where drivers race and points rewarded for their performances without looming doubt of penalties imposed in the next race. I want to see a season free of embarrassing scandal. I want to see a sport where competitors display the best of their talent and skill on track, not a circus of entertainment perpetuated by non-competitors whose sole purpose is financial gain.


(You asked for it :p : )

[Crypt]

I want to see a championship contested on track, without interference from a governing body with little or no experience in the sport. I want to see a season where drivers race and points rewarded for their performances without looming doubt of penalties imposed in the next race. I want to see a season free of embarrassing scandal. I want to see a sport where competitors display the best of their talent and skill on track, not a circus of entertainment perpetuated by non-competitors whose sole purpose is financial gain.


(You asked for it :p : )

And all great points :)

[markabilly]

I want to see a championship contested on track, without interference from a governing body with little or no experience in the sport. I want to see a season where drivers race and points rewarded for their performances without looming doubt of penalties imposed in the next race. I want to see a season free of embarrassing scandal. I want to see a sport where competitors display the best of their talent and skill on track, not a circus of entertainment perpetuated by non-competitors whose sole purpose is financial gain.


(You asked for it :p : )

Oh, you mean a championship decided on the track, where all teams and drivers are required to compete equally without regard to the profits of the big boss, but simply for the sake of speed and competition....I wonder why nobody never thought about this before.....oh well, it will never sell newspapers nor commercials on the boob tube....... :D

[Hawkmoon]

I want to see a championship contested on track, without interference from a governing body with little or no experience in the sport. I want to see a season where drivers race and points rewarded for their performances without looming doubt of penalties imposed in the next race. I want to see a season free of embarrassing scandal. I want to see a sport where competitors display the best of their talent and skill on track, not a circus of entertainment perpetuated by non-competitors whose sole purpose is financial gain.


(You asked for it :p : )

If you want that then don't look to the FIA. It's not their fault that ALL the teams bend the rules to within a hairs width of breaking. When they get caught they say "but it's always been this way".

Until the teams stop doing everything inside or outside the rules to gain 0.000000000001 of a second then we can expect the governing body to step in from time-to-time.

When are the teams going to do this? Right after the flying pigs go ice skating in hell.

To answer the original question, no, F1 hasn't become a farce. This season is not that different from many that have preceded it. In fact, I'd say that 2007 has been one of the more memorable seasons.

[Tazio]

This season will close with an applaud so loud that the anthems will be silenced by the din made from the sound of every fair minded, scrupulous, f1 loving, Homo Sapien, this side of Uranus when Kimi snatches the championship in a dream of a race that will restore that little iota of dignity this sport has left in it this season.

[F1boat]

Yeah, all this Hamilton-bias had made F1 a farce to me. There are some good races, but nothing special, a la Nurburgring 1999.

[seppefan]

Yeah, all this Hamilton-bias had made F1 a farce to me. There are some good races, but nothing special, a la Nurburgring 1999.

It is not really surprising even if it is extremely tedious, as he is incredibly quick for a rookie. He does seem to be a first in this sense so I wish people would respect that and stop all the really unpleasant threads. All so childish.

[ArrowsFA1]

On-track not much has changed. Racers are still racing and we have a great championship being fought for.

Off-track is a farce.

[SillyF1]

Apart from 1994 when the FIA did all they could to stop Schumcher, I cant remember a championship in which so much has been done to favor one particular driver... That said if Hamilton wins then it will be a frace, if Alonso wins it will be a very heroic sporting achievement, because just like Schumacher he would have been able to overcome all the injunstice done to him and win in the face of his enemies.

[ioan]

Off-track is a farce.

You mean the crane incident?! :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

No.

[CarlMetro]

The racing has actually been very good, although a little too processional at times. Sadly it will take a long time for F1 to recover from the off-track crap such as as Stepneygate and the mud-slinging down by Alonso.

Rather sad really.

[BeansBeansBeans]

We've had a good championship battle on-track, but the shenanigans off-track have overshadowed it all.

[BeansBeansBeans]

That said if Hamilton wins then it will be a frace, if Alonso wins it will be a very heroic sporting achievement, because just like Schumacher he would have been able to overcome all the injunstice done to him and win in the face of his enemies.

Let's not forget that Schumacher won many of his titles with the help of a subservient team-mate. Perhaps Irvine and Barrichello should have each had their own FIA scrutineer to check they were getting equal treatment.

[ioan]

Let's not forget that Schumacher won many of his titles with the help of a subservient team-mate. Perhaps Irvine and Barrichello should have each had their own FIA scrutineer to check they were getting equal treatment.

Because MS won so many close fought titles against his team mates?! :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

Apart from 1994 when the FIA did all they could to stop Schumcher, I cant remember a championship in which so much has been done to favor one particular driver... That said if Hamilton wins then it will be a frace, if Alonso wins it will be a very heroic sporting achievement, because just like Schumacher he would have been able to overcome all the injunstice done to him and win in the face of his enemies.
Very briefly I’m going to go existential on your @$$ over here!
After all the shenanigans, posturing, hype, expectation, excitement, disappointment, inequity, cheating, lying, bragging, begging, winning, losing, laughing, bitching, and lets not forget racing. The result of the 2007 f1 WDC will only really represent one thing. That thing will be overwhelmingly, undeniably, and completely, What it is!

On a personal level, every person that is aware of it can deal with it in any fashion they see fit. As long as they don't interfere with anyone else’s ability to flip their pancake in the fashion they see fit. Why? Because that’s the way the song goes!

[BeansBeansBeans]

Because MS won so many close fought titles against his team mates?! :rolleyes:

The point is that it's McLaren's prerogative to favour one driver over another, if they wish to do so, just as Ferrari did with MS.

This is not a matter for the FIA, in my opinion.

For the record, I believe that FA and LH are being given equal treatment by McLaren, but I believe that they would prefer LH to win, for obvious reasons.

[trumperZ06]

The point is that it's McLaren's prerogative to favour one driver over another, if they wish to do so, just as Ferrari did with MS.

This is not a matter for the FIA, in my opinion.

For the record, I believe that FA and LH are being given equal treatment by McLaren, but I believe that they would prefer LH to win, for obvious reasons.

;) Ole Maxie has the FIA meddling where they don't belong !!!

[jas123f1]

Yes - more or less..

[Tazio]

The point is that it's McLaren's prerogative to favour one driver over another, if they wish to do so, just as Ferrari did with MS.

This is not a matter for the FIA, in my opinion.

For the record, I believe that FA and LH are being given equal treatment by McLaren, but I believe that they would prefer LH to win, for obvious reasons.
You know Beans your reasoning is flawless! It’s hard for some people to accept that FA should have figured this out a long time ago. Instead of taking every insinuation that he is less desirable to the team than Hamilton, as a personal affront. He should have waited a little longer, showed the poise of a two time reigning world champion, and not insulted his way into a corner with his boss, thus putting himself on the defensive. A wiser champion would let these things play out. And in spite of all his outward distain for this boss, and complete lack of diplomacy in this arena I still want him to win if Kimi can't. Simply because not being part of the British realm I haven’t had a chance to develop an affinity for Hamy. Not that I dislike him, but I've been busy devoting my attention to a couple other drivers, and a team I have a preference for.

[jens]

The governing body of motorsport has been criticized for being biased for a long-long time (like Balestre and Prost vs Senna). F1 has been criticized for its politics for a long time too (like FOCA vs FISA).

Actually can't notice anything new from this season at all. Okay, a few things have happened that haven't happened before (like WCC leader gets fully disqualified from a season), but generally the whole stuff (or F1 'circus' as they like to call it) has looked quite natural for F1.

There are always decisions that one side doesn't like and calls them unfair. Farce? Has been so and will be so - try to live with it. :p :

[trumperZ06]

[quote="jens"]The governing body of motorsport has been criticized for being biased for a long-long time...

;) True... but this has gone way beyond being biased....

:dozey: The Penalties have become CATASTRPOPIC...
resulting in:

1.lost of All constructors points

2. and 100 Million Dollar fine.

Max has gone on a Vendictive Witchhunt... then he's used the FIA Kangaroo court to punish Ron Dennis and the McLaren company... without holding a reasonable trial before an open court.

Now... for those of you who don't own or manage a business... the 100 Million dollar fine represents taking the profit earned... on gross sales at ~ 10 times that amount, ie. 1 Billion dollars in sales revenue, or more depending on profit margins.

Now how many quarters ( 1/4 of a year) would it take McLaren to generate 1 Billion dollars in revenue ???

According to the majority of press articles... All this was done to McLaren without adaquate investigation... or actual evidience of guilt.

Now, to compound this injustice... Max orders/threatens company McLaren...

not to punish Alonso... for his attempt to Blackmail said company.

Then, we have the latest escapade... putting inspectors in the McLaren opperation, to insure a paid McLaren driver (ie. an employee) is being treated "fairly" !!!

Maybe Max is now planning to start a Union...

as that generally is a union responsibility !!!

:p : This whole Circus has brought shame to the FIA and those associated with these findings. Max, by his actions, has brought Formula One into "Disrepute"... and this whole sorry situation has become another...

FIAisco !!!

:s mokin:

[AJP]

I'm not sure that a poll was needed nor a thread to decide on yes or no.
I thought it was common knowledge that it was a farce...

[winer]

Yes, the on-track racing has become mostly farcical, due to the dependency on aerodynamics. That said, the Canadian, Japanese and Chinese races were very entertaining.

[Tazio]

Yes, the on-track racing has become mostly farcical, due to the dependency on aerodynamics. That said, the Canadian, Japanese and Chinese races were very entertaining.
No. The on track racing has shown that within the formula, two teams are vastly superior to the rest of the field. It has also shown that the team whose pilots have the most wdc points have them because they have had less retirements. I am including a heavy crash in the rain at Fuji, and a car being beached in Shanghai. Now if this trend contiues the retierments could even out, and the point differential between the four top drivers will really even out. Just MHO

[555-04Q2]

Interesting comments from everyone. I think the racing is brilliant this year but the off track antics are making Formula 1 a bigger laughing stock than they were before :(

[Wilderness]

F1 has slowly become a farce from the days of JMB and Bernie's acquisition of the business rights that made it big business.

Why bother? My lack of interest has beem gradual, but seems to have increased since the 05 USGP farce. I no longer watch the F1 races live, just recorded and it's only a matter of time until I delete them without watching.

[tinchote]

F1 has slowly become a farce from the days of JMB and Bernie's acquisition of the business rights that made it big business.

Why bother? My lack of interest has beem gradual, but seems to have increased since the 05 USGP farce. I no longer watch the F1 races live, just recorded and it's only a matter of time until I delete them without watching.


It's not that bad for me, but I couldn't but feel identified with this post (http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2007/10/genuine-honest-.html) from Ed Gorman:



Watching and enjoying England beating France in Paris in the rugby world cup semi-final last night, I couldn't help but think how innocent and uncorrupted that victory seems when compared to the Machiavellian world of Formula One. There it was, a straight, simple, brutal, not beautiful, game of rugby. The winners were worthy winners, the losers - beaten good and proper.

There was no-one claiming that one side had seen the other side's team sheet before kick-off or seen their opponent's line-out calls or game-plan. There was no sign of the players resorting to blatant fouls to prevent their opponents scoring. There was no-one on the pitch going to the referee saying "I am the best. I should have a free passage to the try-line". There was no one complaining about the rules of the game after they lost. And as far as I know there was no one trying to threaten their coach that unless they were put on the field, they would do something that could bring the whole team down. There was also no one on that pitch who was being paid silly money to put their life on the line. There was also no intervention during or after the game - and probably not five days after it either - by rugby's world governing body. There was no one alleging a conspiracy within either team to nobble one of their own players. There were no super-sized egos on the pitch, nor no self-important coaches boring everyone silly after the game. I could go on...

[jso1985]

Interesting comments from everyone. I think the racing is brilliant this year but the off track antics are making Formula 1 a bigger laughing stock than they were before :(

agree, but in the end what happens on the track is still the most important part of F1, so to me the sport is far from being now a farce

[ioan]

It's not that bad for me, but I couldn't but feel identified with this post (http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2007/10/genuine-honest-.html) from Ed Gorman:

There is no use to try to compare Bernie's circus with real SPORT!

[Wilderness]

It's not that bad for me, but I couldn't but feel identified with this post (http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2007/10/genuine-honest-.html) from Ed Gorman:
Excellent blog.

I suppose we're at different stages of disinchantment. The questions you would need to ask yourself are, is my time and energy worth it? Is the aggravation of feeling like a "chump" after every race or off track occurence worth it? Am I better off spending quality time elsewhere? I did, the answers were predictable. I now take F1 at face value (if that), maybe one notch or two above NA$CAR.

I also know that for every fan like me who becomes disinchanted with the "sport", there are countless of "lemmings" (as fousto puts it), ready to take my place, so the cycle continues and uncle Bernies' pockets continue to get lined up.

[wmcot]

I've been able to keep the on-track and off-track events separate (mostly.)

On track, it has been a good season for the most part. Yes, there were some processional races, but some great ones, too. The engine rules have taken a lot of suspense out of the final laps since nobody blows up anymore.

Off track, well, that's what brings in the headlines and the publicity (and the money.) It has been interesting and intriguing, but I hope it never happens again to this extent.

[tinchote]

Excellent blog.

I suppose we're at different stages of disinchantment. The questions you would need to ask yourself are, is my time and energy worth it? Is the aggravation of feeling like a "chump" after every race or off track occurence worth it? Am I better off spending quality time elsewhere? I did, the answers were predictable. I now take F1 at face value (if that), maybe one notch or two above NA$CAR.

I also know that for every fan like me who becomes disinchanted with the "sport", there are countless of "lemmings" (as fousto puts it), ready to take my place, so the cycle continues and uncle Bernies' pockets continue to get lined up.

I agree. I didn't really ask myself any questions, but F1 has certainly come down in my priorities in the last few years. I value fairness in any sport very highly, and the constant rule tweaking in F1 has done nothing to spice my interest.

It used to be that even before the season I knew that I would watch all qualy sessions and all races, no matter what time of the day. That doesn't happen anymore. I haven't set my alarm to wake up for a qualy or a race in a long time.

[schmenke]

I agree. I didn't really ask myself any questions, but F1 has certainly come down in my priorities in the last few years. I value fairness in any sport very highly, and the constant rule tweaking in F1 has done nothing to spice my interest.

It used to be that even before the season I knew that I would watch all qualy sessions and all races, no matter what time of the day. That doesn't happen anymore. I haven't set my alarm to wake up for a qualy or a race in a long time.

I feel exactly the same.

[trumperZ06]

I agree. I didn't really ask myself any questions, but F1 has certainly come down in my priorities in the last few years. I value fairness in any sport very highly, and the constant rule tweaking in F1 has done nothing to spice my interest.

It used to be that even before the season I knew that I would watch all qualy sessions and all races, no matter what time of the day. That doesn't happen anymore. I haven't set my alarm to wake up for a qualy or a race in a long time.

:dozey: Hhmmmm... I still tune in for the race if it's on live at a reasonable time. Otherwise, I find myself waiting for Speed's rerun!!!

IMO... too Damn much politics... which is ruining Formula One.

Maybe, next year with the removal of traction control... the racing will be more in the driver's hands.

:s mokin:

[Wilderness]

I've been able to keep the on-track and off-track events separate (mostly.)

On track, it has been a good season for the most part. Yes, there were some processional races, but some great ones, too. The engine rules have taken a lot of suspense out of the final laps since nobody blows up anymore.

Off track, well, that's what brings in the headlines and the publicity (and the money.) It has been interesting and intriguing, but I hope it never happens again to this extent.
It's impossible to keep both types of events separate. Too many politically instigated rule "clarifications" mid season that have great effects on track performance. I don't recall any (non-safety related) mid-season modifications to the rules, or how they are enforced, until the past few years. Before that, the rules were changed for the following season, not half way through.

[Wilderness]

:dozey: Maybe, next year with the removal of traction control... the racing will be more in the driver's hands.

:s mokin:
The sarcastic person in me says that someone will manage to figure a gray area, chaos will ensue, and the politically connected will prevail... But the more sarctastic side of me thinks that sufficient whining will occur in the off season and the common ECU will not happen...

[Tazio]

[quote=" I don't recall any (non-safety related) mid-season modifications to the rules, or how they are enforced, until the past few years. Before that, the rules were changed for the following season, not half way through.[/QUOTE"]

Unfortunate...But true

[wmcot]

I'm still fascinated by the racing and I always hope for that one exciting moment that will make the race "worth it", but I find watching ALMS more entertaining to watch. The competition is better and there are four races on track at once (OK, 3 races - you can't count 2 Corvettes racing each other.)

[Tazio]

This season will close with an applaud so loud that the anthems will be silenced by the din made from the sound of every fair minded, scrupulous, f1 loving, Homo Sapien, this side of Uranus when Kimi snatches the championship in a dream of a race that will restore that little iota of dignity this sport has left in it this season.


I nominate this for post of the year
posted oct 11 2007 8:15pm

[markabilly]

I nominate this for post of the year
posted oct 11 2007 8:15pm
Hey remember dude, I laid it all out before you, and even later when I said about the deal on FA with flavio and crew...I noted that the only problem to the plans of mice and men....was this loose cannon known as Kimi...... :D

At least now I don't have to drink all that kool-aid i said I would if FA won the wdc......

[F1boat]

F1 redeemed! :)

[F1boat]

But thanks to McLaren - back into the farce.

[Tazio]

Hey remember dude, I laid it all out before you, and even later when I said about the deal on FA with flavio and crew...I noted that the only problem to the plans of mice and men....was this loose cannon known as Kimi...... :D

At least now I don't have to drink all that kool-aid i said I would if FA won the wdc......
Dude I really enjoy your humor and wit. It's weird that we (you started it) can reference the Jonestown tragedy and not have a single serious objection!
I remember that event as it unfolded. I believe it was the worst mass suicide, and still is
of American citizens in this country's history (although it didn't happen on American soil) It does make for powerful imagery. I come to this forum for one reason "to have fun" I appreciate your cogent, and humorous contributions

[Perdita_X]

On track - fabulous! Some fantastic new drivers, some not so new drivers having great seasons and showing that when the big drives become available, they will be right up there in the mix.

Off track - More farcicle than a planned farce in Farcetown! Goes to show what happens when the person running a sports governing body is very openly a fan/supporter of one particular team and has the power to completely screw over their main opposition!!

[ioan]

Off track - More farcicle than a planned farce in Farcetown! Goes to show what happens when the person running a sports governing body is very openly a fan/supporter of one particular team and has the power to completely screw over their main opposition!!

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, how dare Max favor McLaren like that?

[janneppi]

Or does Perdita_x refer to the Mosley intervue where says Ferrari is more important than other, British based teams and needs it's hand held so they wont feel sad and alone.

[ioan]

Or does Perdita_x refer to the Mosley intervue where says Ferrari is more important than other, British based teams and needs it's hand held so they wont feel sad and alone.

Do you have a link to this interview where he says that Ferrari is more important than other teams? I must have missed that.

[janneppi]

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2007/10/7014.html
It's just under the part where he talks about how close relationship he has with some guy called Montezemolo. :p :

[F1boat]

For me McLaren and the golden boy are the farce. What is happening now is farce.