FIA offical checking McLaren equality*Merged*

[ArrowsFA1]

The FIA is to appoint a designated official at next weekend's Brazilian Grand Prix to check there is complete equality of treatment at McLaren between Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton.
With McLaren already having issued a statement to make it clear that both Alonso and Hamilton will have equal chances of winning the title, the FIA is to ensure such a state of affairs by using a separate scrutineer for the Woking-based team at the Interlagos event.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63202

The head of the Spanish motorsport federation has a word with Max, and Max "reassured" him. This is getting absurd :rolleyes: The actions of the FIA towards McLaren this season are already unprecedended without this kind of thing, which goes way beyond the remit of the governing body :down:

[Tazio]

This is turning into a freak show!

[OTA]

If they decided to rule in a complete intrateam affair, such as Hungary, it's only fair that they do so in all aspects. However, I suspect that's it's just another show, just as Mac statement of equality. There's an old spanish say that goes, "tell me what you brag about and I'll tell you what you're lacking".

[ArrowsFA1]

If they decided to rule in a complete intrateam affair, such as Hungary, it's only fair that they do so in all aspects.
I disagree OTA. It was not the FIA's place to involve themselves in what was an internal matter in Hungary, and it is certainly not their place now. Do they intend to have FIA officials in every pit garage? No. Just one. If every nations governing body has a word with Max about alleged favouritism against their driver(s) will he " reassure" them in the same way? No.

Some have said that the championships have been tarnished this season because of Spygate. I don't believe that to be the case, but I do think the FIA have tarnished F1 through their actions. This latest one being the icing on the cake.

It's hard to see it as anything more than a vendetta by the FIA President against a particular team :down:

[SGWilko]

Fornicate me, whatever next?

Perhaps Ron ought to roll out the two seater, so that the Spanish Head of their Motorsport Federation can actually physically hold poor dear FA's hand as they circulate in Brazil.

I know, just blast FA into space, without a bleedin space suit, chuck him outside and tell HAL under no circumstances is he allowed back in.

FA and the FIA have now officially finally succeeded in screwing F1 over a barrel this year. WHAT A JOKE.

EDIT: Even David Ike couldn't make this 5h!t up.....

[Dave B]

Why weren't there Brazillian or Irish officials checking up on a certain rival team over the past decade? :s

There's a danger that McLaren will get so distracted by the need to prove fair play that they'll hand the race - and possibly the championship - to Ferrari.

On the other hand, it may go some way to diffusing any controversy that arises at the final race, and silence the conspiracy theorists. Probably not though.

[OTA]

Arrows, I agree that it's ridiculous many of the things have been doing in the past few years and this year was just the icing of the cake. I think this is just another smoke-screen to please Spanish media and the Spanish following of FA.
Bernie usually acuses FA of doing nothing to benefit F1, when he has actually build a share over 50% for most of his races in Spain. In China he got to 98%, and that to me it's definately more than nothing. And of course, Bernie or Max or whoever need to protect or at least look that they protect that nothing that FA has built.
I like things sorted out in the track and that's why I have a very high respect for LH. I had it from the beggining and while I don't think he's the Mesias, I do feel he's an extraordinary race driver. But what it doesn't seem right is that from Germany on no drivers are allowed to be craned back into the track, from Hungary on the FIA can enter into intra-team discussions, from Fuji on you must drive at a constant pace behind SC. 2 of this issues had an effect in the points LH won and we might argue, many people do, that those 2 incidents had more than a 4 point effect in standings.
They can simply not afford to have a tainted WDC, or at least to give that impression and having an official in the garage it's just a way to cover its butts. I agree with you that it's a bit odd, but I think it's the only way to give the impression of fairness.

Cheers
David

[ArrowsFA1]

I don't disagree with much of what you say OTA, but I would ask who has created this impression of unfairness?

McLaren have consistently maintained, and shown equality of treatment towards their drivers. It is a central aspect of RD's running of the team.

Of course that could have nothing to do with the FIA taking this action could it? After all, questioning McLaren's treatment of their drivers in this way couldn't be personal could it? Max having yet another 'dig' at Ron? Perish the thought!!

[SGWilko]

McLaren have consistently maintained, and shown equality of treatment towards their drivers. It is a central aspect of RD's running of the team.


Which seems to me what has sent FA into a rage in the first place, and caused him to reach for his blankey and throw his toys out the pram, because he feels he ought to get preferential treatment.

Now he WANTS the same treatment. There's no helping some people is there......?

[Dave B]

That's just what Jesus said, sir. :p

[SGWilko]

That's just what Jesus said, sir. :p

What, blessed are the meek?

[ioan]

McLaren have consistently maintained, and shown equality of treatment towards their drivers. It is a central aspect of RD's running of the team.


That's what McLaren claims. There are 2 of their drivers claiming otherwise.

[Tazio]

Arrows, I agree that it's ridiculous many of the things have been doing in the past few years and this year was just the icing of the cake. I think this is just another smoke-screen to please Spanish media and the Spanish following of FA.
Bernie usually acuses FA of doing nothing to benefit F1, when he has actually build a share over 50% for most of his races in Spain. In China he got to 98%, and that to me it's definately more than nothing. And of course, Bernie or Max or whoever need to protect or at least look that they protect that nothing that FA has built.
I like things sorted out in the track and that's why I have a very high respect for LH. I had it from the beggining and while I don't think he's the Mesias, I do feel he's an extraordinary race driver. But what it doesn't seem right is that from Germany on no drivers are allowed to be craned back into the track, from Hungary on the FIA can enter into intra-team discussions, from Fuji on you must drive at a constant pace behind SC. 2 of this issues had an effect in the points LH won and we might argue, many people do, that those 2 incidents had more than a 4 point effect in standings.
They can simply not afford to have a tainted WDC, or at least to give that impression and having an official in the garage it's just a way to cover its butts. I agree with you that it's a bit odd, but I think it's the only way to give the impression of fairness.

Cheers
David
I do feel very strongly that it appears that the tire pressure incident in China provoked this.
We must not forget however that at the time of the spy gate hearing that resulted in a $100 million fine and loss of wcc points. It was stated that McLaren could face more sanctions for the 2008 season if evidence that LH was given preferential treatment in the aftermath.
With a possibility of serious sanctions why would Ron not welcome this? As he has held very strongly (and I believe rightfully so) that they are not, or ever have given LH any advantage. Even if they PREFER that he wins.

[Dave B]

When you say "tyre pressure incident" presumably you mean "tyre pressure allegations"? :)

[Tazio]

When you say "tyre pressure incident" presumably you mean "tyre pressure allegations"? :)
No I actully meant incident. That being inclusive of action, and suposition, or inferance, either imagined or real.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

–noun
1. an individual occurrence or event.
2. a distinct piece of action, or an episode, as in a story or play.
3. something that occurs casually in connection with something else.
4. something appertaining or attaching to something else.
5. an occurrence of seemingly minor importance, esp. involving nations or factions between which relations are strained and sensitive, that can lead to serious consequences, as an outbreak of hostilities or a war: border incident; international incident.
6. an embarrassing occurrence, esp. of a social nature.
–adjective

[OTA]

Arrows the claim of equality by RD has the same value of FA claiming the opposite.

Cheers
David

[ArrowsFA1]

It was stated that McLaren could face more sanctions for the 2008 season if evidence that LH was given preferential treatment in the aftermath.
The possible additional sanctions you mention had nothing to do with "preferential treatment" between McLaren drivers. It relates to whether there is evidence of Ferrari IP on McLaren's 2008 car. Although I admit it is a useful stick for Mosley to beat McLaren/Dennis with repeatedly whenever to mood takes him.

Why would Ron not welcome this? Well for one thing it's another attack on his team based on unfounded allegtions and gossip. For other, it's an action beyond the remit of the FIA, and totally unprecedented.

It seems that Max likes to respond to "requests" from national federations in particular circumstances.

[Hondo]

That's what McLaren claims. There are 2 of their drivers claiming otherwise.


Would one of those drivers be the same one that was throwing his toys out his pram last year and claiming that Renault didn't want him to win the title and was trying to stick it to him?

[Tazio]

The possible additional sanctions you mention had nothing to do with "preferential treatment" between McLaren drivers. It relates to whether there is evidence of Ferrari IP on McLaren's 2008 car. Although I admit it is a useful stick for Mosley to beat McLaren/Dennis with repeatedly whenever to mood takes him.

Why would Ron not welcome this? Well for one thing it's another attack on his team based on unfounded allegtions and gossip. For other, it's an action beyond the remit of the FIA, and totally unprecedented.

It seems that Max likes to respond to "requests" from national federations in particular circumstances.
Yes I stand corrected.
My memory isn't what it used to be. But I thought that there was a metion of a penalty in regard to this matter.

[ArrowsFA1]

Arrows the claim of equality by RD has the same value of FA claiming the opposite.
Sorry David, but we disagree. At the root of the this, I believe, is one of Alonso's few weakenesses - the inability to accept being beaten by a team-mate. It's something that has been commented on by Pat Symonds, and it has simply come to a head this season.

That, combined with Hamilton being a McLaren protégé, and the whole Spygate issue, has made McLaren, and F1, a hotbed of conspiracy theories, each of which is lapped up (and made up!) by the media.

That's what the FIA is responding to, and they shouldn't be. They are merely making things worse, and damaging F1 further in the process. They are doing Fernando no favours by responding to this "request" from the Spanish Federation, a Federation incidentally that has said they "think the treatment in this final race of the season will be the same, and that there will be equality for both drivers."

[markabilly]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63202

The head of the Spanish motorsport federation has a word with Max, and Max "reassured" him. This is getting absurd :rolleyes: The actions of the FIA towards McLaren this season are already unprecedended without this kind of thing, which goes way beyond the remit of the governing body :down:


and he will be bringing a tire air pressure gauge, so he can check tire pressures on each Freddie tire......

:roll:

:beer:

:grenade:

[Bagwan]

Ron says equality .

Lewis said he's no. 2 in Monaco .
Fernando says lewis is favoured .
Coulthard says Mika was favoured .
JPM says he was no. 2 .

Max said the drivers were not to be punished .
I guess this follows that promise , in that Alonso stands to lose points if his team-mate is blatantly favoured .

Is it Lewis's or Fernando's turn to pit second in the first stint ?
One of them has to be given the slot and be favoured .

[Ari]

There's a saying of old "where there's smoke, there's fire".

Ron went on last week to discuss how it was US vs HIM re LH and FA.

It doesn't surprise me that the FIA have appointed someone to overlook the whole thing for the final round.

Honestly, I reckon FA would probably get a fairer run and some more love from the Ferrari pit in the final round.

I just find it hilarious that people here are still trying to convince themselves there's nothing happening. What a bunch of f***ing sheep some of you are!!!!

[F1MAN2007]

In his statment last week, RD said that they were racing FA.
How a team can race his driver not his rival team?

Like someone said and I agree with him, RD is the one who brought all those bad things to his team. He is the one to blame and the one to lose everything. How can you say that your drivers are equal while in your statment you say that you are racing one of them to help the other one to win? Where is the equality??

Kimmi is not my idol driver, but now I am praying for him to win the WDC.

[rohanweb]

FIA becomes like a communist rulers ;-)
lets see what is going to happen at interlagos, I think LH going to be faster than FA as usual on plain merits !!!

[markabilly]

In his statment last week, RD said that they were racing FA.
How a team can race his driver not his rival team?

Like someone said and I agree with him, RD is the one who brought all those bad things to his team. He is the one to blame and the one to lose everything. How can you say that your drivers are equal while in your statment you say that you are racing one of them to help the other one to win? Where is the equality??

Kimmi is not my idol driver, but now I am praying for him to win the WDC.

Well, duh....that is pretty much what RD said months earlier when he refferred to recycled drivers compared to the one with maclaren in his blood....

but sending some FIA know nothing official to a race to do what?

Watch from the pitstall instead of sitting in the grandstands or from TV?

Check on tire pressures?

Whistle the Spanish national anthem?

:D

[F1MAN2007]

Well, duh....that is pretty much what RD said months earlier when he refferred to recycled drivers compared to the one with maclaren in his blood....

but sending some FIA know nothing official to a race to do what?

Watch from the pitstall instead of sitting in the grandstands or from TV?

Check on tire pressures?

Whistle the Spanish national anthem?

:D

Is the British Motorsport Officials invited or they are represented by RD?! :D

For the equality, I thought that they should be invited as well!!!

[trumperZ06]

:p : Ole Maxie is making the FIA look like a bundering bunch of idiots !!!

:rolleyes: Only Max would grant IMMUNITY... to a driver who attempted to Blackmail his team...

then he went on to call a three time WDC & past team owner... a "Half-wit"...

now he cowtows to the Spanish press.

:dozey: The FIA's turned this season into another... FIAsco, and Max is the clown putting the FIA into "Disrepute" !!!

:s mokin:

[markabilly]

Is the British Motorsport Officials invited or they are represented by RD?! :D

For the equality, I thought that they should be invited as well!!!


You are right, they can go around as a pair, with the Brit whistling the "God Save the Queen" to keep things equal and the Brit checking the air pressure of LH tires...


of course, since RD swears there is equality within the team...and "we don't favor one over the other"...even when "we are racing against Alonso"....that really should not be necessary :D

[F1MAN2007]

You are right, they can go around as a pair, with the Brit whistling the "God Save the Queen" to keep things equal and the Brit checking the air pressure of LH tires...


of course, since RD swears there is equality within the team...and "we don't favor one over the other"...even when "we are racing against Alonso"....that really should not be necessary :D

But when you are racing a recycled and a recluse driver everything is allowed and equality is granted!! :D

[Easy Drifter]

I understand RD has hired 'Jeeves the Perfect Butler' to serve FA's every whim next weekend. LH gets 'that other guy'. Further. several punching bags will be installed for FA's sole use. :D

[markabilly]

I understand RD has hired 'Jeeves the Perfect Butler' to serve FA's every whim next weekend. LH gets 'that other guy'. Further. several punching bags will be installed for FA's sole use. :D


That would only be fitting to a "bichampion".............. :D






(as translated by babelfish, of course, as me I would not otherwise know...)

[Hondo]

I'm telling you if Alonso wins it and Hamilton is no longer in the running i.e., dnf or finishes outside the points, the FIA (Max) will find something to penalize McLaren with and hand the title to Kimi. This just gave Max the excuse he's been wanting to justify nosing around deeper. Max doesn't give a rat's ass about Spain, the big sponsership money wants to target the Eastern markets and developing countries. Why do you think Marlboro is still in the game?

[Bagwan]

Both drivers , not just Alonso , have been guaranteed no points loss for talking .
Lewis didn't say much , or wasn't asked , so is this why he doesn't have a bodyguard .
Maybe the bodyguard is a double-agent .

I still think this was all David Richards's doing . He orchestrated the whole thing to get out of the deal with McLaren , and eventually buy them . The $100million was just a bonus Max threw in to get rid of Ron .
Expect Aston Martins made in Germany soon .

[Easy Drifter]

Is there any truth to the rumour that Jean Todt has a hernia from laughing so hard over the FIA trying to ensure equal treatment? Yes Mr. FIA inspector I can assure you that all our drivers were treated equally to TGF. What was his name again. Michael something wasn't it? :s hock:

[Buzz Lightyear]

FIA offical checking McLaren equality...... is this not at a spanish FAI official, who have been personally invited by Ron Dennis?

[fandango]

I agree it's ridiculous that the FIA are doing this. I don't believe Ron Dennis' equality stuff, and never did. I think Alonso is seriously paranoid, but I like him (and no, I'm not a re-incarnation of Dick Emery)

At the same time it's funny, because there's a clash of cultures, Anglo-Saxon vs Latin, going on here. And the Latins are winning. (And Dave, Irvine is officially British)

[OTA]

Arrows, indeed we disagree. While I agree with you that FA has an edge in his personality that makes him a difficult character to deal with specially if he's not winning, I'm not so sure that is so simple, what ever Pat Symonds says. In his times in Renault one of the things he was really upset about was the fact that they wanted him to "teach" Montagny. He said he was no teacher and he refused to do it. In a way he feels the same way in Mac. He's the one driver that has made the most input in terms of development in the car, and he strongly feels that should be him the one favoured by it.

Cheers
DAvid

[Hondo]

Both drivers , not just Alonso , have been guaranteed no points loss for talking .
Lewis didn't say much , or wasn't asked , so is this why he doesn't have a bodyguard .
Maybe the bodyguard is a double-agent .

I still think this was all David Richards's doing . He orchestrated the whole thing to get out of the deal with McLaren , and eventually buy them . The $100million was just a bonus Max threw in to get rid of Ron .
Expect Aston Martins made in Germany soon .

That was just for the "spy" stuff. Max needs something new to drop the hatchet the rest of the way. He has to tippy toe around Hamilton because of the popularity though.

[Easy Drifter]

Buz: Apparently not. There is to be a FIA appointed (or anointed) inspector

[mstillhere]

I disagree OTA. It was not the FIA's place to involve themselves in what was an internal matter in Hungary, and it is certainly not their place now. Do they intend to have FIA officials in every pit garage? No. Just one. If every nations governing body has a word with Max about alleged favouritism against their driver(s) will he " reassure" them in the same way? No.

Some have said that the championships have been tarnished this season because of Spygate. I don't believe that to be the case, but I do think the FIA have tarnished F1 through their actions. This latest one being the icing on the cake.

It's hard to see it as anything more than a vendetta by the FIA President against a particular team :down:

I wonder why so much defensiveness

[mstillhere]

[quote="ArrowsFA1"]McLaren have consistently maintained, and shown equality of treatment towards their drivers. It is a central aspect of RD's running of the team. QUOTE]

I wonder if you actually read what RD HIMSELF said about honesty and fairness. FYI RD said last week after the race that the pilot that they were running against was FA not KR. And what's scary is that you after reading this message go:"So what?" That's ok. There is nothing strange about that.
I don't even know whay I bother............

[mstillhere]

Would one of those drivers be the same one that was throwing his toys out his pram last year and claiming that Renault didn't want him to win the title and was trying to stick it to him?

yep :)

[mstillhere]

Ron says equality .

Lewis said he's no. 2 in Monaco .
Fernando says lewis is favoured .
Coulthard says Mika was favoured .
JPM says he was no. 2 .

Max said the drivers were not to be punished .
I guess this follows that promise , in that Alonso stands to lose points if his team-mate is blatantly favoured .

Is it Lewis's or Fernando's turn to pit second in the first stint ?
One of them has to be given the slot and be favoured .

WOW!!! Wait, wait, slow down. I can keep up with what everybody says

[schmenke]

:p : Ole Maxie is making the FIA look like a bundering bunch of idiots !!!

:rolleyes: Only Max would grant IMMUNITY... to a driver who attempted to Blackmail his team...

then he went on to call a three time WDC & past team owner... a "Half-wit"...
...

My remaining remnants of respect for the man went out the window when I had heard that he said that :dozey:

[truefan72]

It is pointless to depate the merits of this action in this thread,

the obvious bias by the fIA and their stupid meddling is an embarrasment to the sport. Now if you can't see how ridiculous and personal this is then I feel sorry for you, cuase this has nothing to do with insuring equality.

They should then inspect everry GD team up and down the pitlane and ensure that no driver is favored more than another. Make sure that every spare car is equiped to both drivers , that every team doesn't assign preferential fuel and pit strategy to one driver, that every team, including Ferrari who have already announced favoring one driver over another, depsite the other with a legitimate chance of winning a GP, is going about it even steven.

The FIA and MM are a complete and utter joke at this point. Let's get this season over with and get on the real business of teams lodging protests and forming a breakaway league, where at least the illusion of impartiality may be presented.

[ShiftingGears]

Pathetic :down:

[markabilly]

I have had Maxie calling me all day to go and watch over stuff at Brazil.

Tells me that he heard that I would make an excellent official FIA official and steward/watchdog, since I was blind in one eye and could not see out of the other!

Unfortunately, before even thinking, I admitted that while blind in one eye, I could barely see out of the other eye, just enough to see objects the size of very large buildings against a very bright sky.........and he withdrew the offer and slammed the phone down :mad:

[trumperZ06]

;) I bet he's now calling Stevie Wonder !!!

[Ari]

It is pointless to depate the merits of this action in this thread,

the obvious bias by the fIA and their stupid meddling is an embarrasment to the sport. Now if you can't see how ridiculous and personal this is then I feel sorry for you, cuase this has nothing to do with insuring equality.

They should then inspect everry GD team up and down the pitlane and ensure that no driver is favored more than another. Make sure that every spare car is equiped to both drivers , that every team doesn't assign preferential fuel and pit strategy to one driver, that every team, including Ferrari who have already announced favoring one driver over another, depsite the other with a legitimate chance of winning a GP, is going about it even steven.

The FIA and MM are a complete and utter joke at this point. Let's get this season over with and get on the real business of teams lodging protests and forming a breakaway league, where at least the illusion of impartiality may be presented.

So all teams talk about their drivers as US and HIM? I don't think so.

[Tazio]

FIA offical checking McLaren equality...... is this not at a spanish FAI official, who have been personally invited by Ron Dennis?
Buzz apparently there was an invitation, as reported earlier today.
It has been conveniently over looked on this forum however! It is the FIA that decided to make an official one. I'm not sure if this Hombre is on official FIA business

Carlos Gracia, also an FIA vice president and member of the World Motor Sport Council, confirmed to the newspaper Diario As that he has accepted the invitation to watch proceedings at Interlagos from the Woking based team's garage.
"Ron Dennis extended me an invitation so that I can see that they have nothing to hide, and I decided to accept," he said.
http://www.dailyf1news.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/artikel.php?nwsID=3908

[Hawkmoon]

What an absurd thing to do. As much as I don't like Ron Dennis, I seriously doubt that he or any other team principal, would order that one of the teams cars be deliberately hobbled.

The mechanics could probably do something sublte to the car that this FIA offical could never find anyway.

[truefan72]

So all teams talk about their drivers as US and HIM? I don't think so.


First of all I wouldn't blame them if it were as you say it was, for Alonso was the one who brough the whole me vs. the team thing into it, so don't now look for a double standard

2nd and more importantly
it was in regard to Hamilton's strategy and what he and his race strategy was about. Afterall it was about Hamilton's car, his pit decisions and his tyres not the team's

So please don't bring anymore of that stuff into this thread as it is obviously another meritless opportunity to scrap.

The conversation here is about whether the FIA should be into monitoring a team for equality not about LH's tyre strategy in Fuji.

so let's get back to the subject

[truefan72]

What an absurd thing to do. As much as I don't like Ron Dennis, I seriously doubt that he or any other team principal, would order that one of the teams cars be deliberately hobbled.

The mechanics could probably do something sublte to the car that this FIA offical could never find anyway.

Quite right but I beleive this is more of a diplomatic way of them saying that they were asked to be invited. It makes no sense whatsoever to do that.
eitherway it turns out it can only spell trouble for Alonso or Hamilton.

If Hamilton wins then I assumne Alonso will complain and look to his rep for some support and the official won't be beyond saying he saw infractions

If Hamilton wins, he will claim interferance from the officials and that he wa put at a disadvantage since Alonso basically had his guys all over his side of the paddock.

Just a lousy stupid, stupid thing to do

Now if McClaren had quietly invited the FIA to come and that it be kept quite so that there would be no possible proof of impropriety and then the FIA turns around and publicly makes it an official overiste, I would be pissed if I were RD. For even when you try to do the right thing they bring the heat on you.

[ICKE]

As much as I don't like Ron Dennis, I seriously doubt that he or any other team principal, would order that one of the teams cars be deliberately hobbled.

This man has already lied and cheated throughout the season, his team has been involved in illegal activity and everything that has come out from his mouth has been more or less BS, starting from his internal investigation to equal treatment.

FIA is only safeguarding Alonso who is in a very difficult position inside Mclaren.

[schmenke]

...FIA is only safeguarding Alonso who is in a very difficult position inside Mclaren.

Safeguarding select drivers is the role of the FIA? :s

[markabilly]

;) I bet he's now calling Stevie Wonder !!!


but can he check tire pressures?

[F1boat]

I believe Alonso, Montoya and DC and not Ron Dennis. What FIA did is unpopular, but right.

[Enchanter]

This way RD can restore his "integrity", as, IF LH beats FA, he can claim it was done without interfering with FA in any way, hence the "legendary" equality.

Of course there is enough time to subtly "tweak" FA's car in the run up to the race on Sunday, and surely, the FIA delegate would require a working knowledge of the McLaren teams engineering / operations in order to detect anything foul?

I was also under the impression that said FIA delegate was there at RD's invitation, and not in an official FIA capacity??

Cheers,

[ShiftingGears]

I believe Alonso, Montoya and DC and not Ron Dennis.

So what? Most teams favour one driver over another. To single out McLaren for an investigation into driver equality is stupid.

[F1boat]

So what? Most teams favour one driver over another. To single out McLaren for an investigation into driver equality is stupid.

Sabotaging a driver during championship battle is unacceptable.

[fandango]

Sabotaging a driver during championship battle is unacceptable.


There's a big difference between sabotaging and favouring. Of the three drivers up for it, I'm hoping Alonso gets it. However, what's wrong with a team boss deciding who should win in this situation? He's done all the work to put his team together and build the car etc, why shouldn't he decide? If I was Ron Dennis I'd want to decide. The FIA don't allow team orders because it's supposedly bad for the sport, but is all this business any better?

[ArrowsFA1]

I wonder why so much defensiveness
It's not defensiveness, it's simply anger. It annoys the hell out of me that the FIA, or more particularly Max Mosley, are doing such a good job of damaging a sport I have enjoyed for more than 30yrs.

As I've said before, this is unprecedended and it is also unwarranted. In its most simple terms it is the governing body abusing its power to humiliate a team owner, in much the same way as Mosley attempted to humiliate Jackie Stewart recently. Of course it's more complex than that with all that has been going on this season, but that's at its core.

Buzz apparently there was an invitation, as reported earlier today.
It has been conveniently over looked on this forum however! It is the FIA that decided to make an official one. I'm not sure if this Hombre is on official FIA business.
And that's where it should have ended. Ron Dennis had no need to extend such an invitation in response to accusations of inequality within the team, but he did. Why the FIA were invited to get involved, or took it upon themselves to get involved only Max knows for sure.

I believe Alonso, Montoya and DC and not Ron Dennis. What FIA did is unpopular, but right.
Funny how two of those three left McLaren without a title to their name, and the other may do the same. "Favouritism", among other things, is a familiar cry of a defeated driver who does not want to admit his team-mate did a better job. And I say that as an admirer of all three of those drivers.

The practicalities of what the inspector will be doing, and under which FIA rule simply makes me laugh.

Finally, we know know that if a driver or even the media raise a question of favouritism within a team in future then the FIA inspectors will be sent in. Yeah right, or course they will. :rolleyes:

[PitMarshal]

Sabotaging a driver during championship battle is unacceptable.

Attempting to blackmail your boss in order to get preferential treatment is unacceptable. Let's not forget that if FA had kept his trap shut the chances are this situation would not be happening. Regardless of whether or not RD invited the FIA to send this chap along, making it public only adds fire to all the conspiracy theories that are floating around - this thread is evidence enough of that. Personally I think the FIA need to take a good long look at how they've handled this whole affair.

[janneppi]

Maybe FIA should take full responsibilty of Alonso's car. Surely FIA's own mechanics would be impartial enough to give him a chance to win, why not put Alonso in his own, seperate garage safe sabotage if McLaren isn't to be trusted. ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Better still. Why don't the FIA cancel the Brazilian GP and meet in Paris to decide who they want to win the WDC. Of course they could invite the heads of certain motorsport federations to help them decide.

[seppefan]

It seems to me that the 5 grid place penalty the FIA gave Alonso in Hungary was none of the FIA's business. I know Ron Dennis has invited a Spanish FIA rep to Brazil himself but this is presumably due to the fact that the FIA said they would penalise Mclaren if they felt Alonso was being mistreated.

Is this really in the power of the FIA or ias this Moseley being a facist ?

[Valve Bounce]

It seems to me that the 5 grid place penalty the FIA gave Alonso in Hungary was none of the FIA's business. I know Ron Dennis has invited a Spanish FIA rep to Brazil himself but this is presumably due to the fact that the FIA said they would penalise Mclaren if they felt Alonso was being mistreated.

Is this really in the power of the FIA or ias this Moseley being a facist ?

Would you like to enlarge on this discussion please, as this is rather cryptic right now. Thanks.

[seppefan]

Would you like to enlarge on this discussion please, as this is rather cryptic right now. Thanks.


Does the FIA really have the power to become involved in the various teams to the extent they are this season?

The situation in Hungary was an inter team scenario, nothing to do with the FIA and yet they became involved. Is that because Moseley sees it as his right, does the FIA really have this kind of power? which in my book is over the top and miss placed

[SillyF1]

I dont see how one FIA official, would probably doesn`t understand a thing about mechanics could really notice any wrong doing... I think its just a `show` to make people believe that there will be fairness, and a way for McLaren to cover their backs when they cheat by saying that they had someone looking !

The FIA and McLaren have clearly shown that they want Hamilton champion and McLaren are proven cheaters, so I dont believe poor Alonso will get treated fairly to be honest.

The british press has done all it can to make Alonso look like a coward and Hamilton into a little angel. Its all part of the `Lewis Hamilton Show`.

[SGWilko]

There's a saying of old "where there's smoke, there's fire".

Ron went on last week to discuss how it was US vs HIM re LH and FA.

It doesn't surprise me that the FIA have appointed someone to overlook the whole thing for the final round.

Honestly, I reckon FA would probably get a fairer run and some more love from the Ferrari pit in the final round.

I just find it hilarious that people here are still trying to convince themselves there's nothing happening. What a bunch of f***ing sheep some of you are!!!!


Baaaaaa, I don't know what you mean, Baaaaaaaa

[ArrowsFA1]

There's a saying of old "where there's smoke, there's fire".
Especially when the FIA are working the smoke machine!

[SGWilko]

(And Dave, Irvine is officially British)

Gee, thanks for reminding us....

[Valve Bounce]

Does the FIA really have the power to become involved in the various teams to the extent they are this season?

The situation in Hungary was an inter team scenario, nothing to do with the FIA and yet they became involved. Is that because Moseley sees it as his right, does the FIA really have this kind of power? which in my book is over the top and miss placed


I think when Alonso stopped for those extra 10 seconds to block Lewis, it went further than being a team scenario. However, we have had a very long discussion on this point, so I see little point in dwelling on it now.

But I will agree with Arrows above that the FIA appear to be buggering up an outstanding season this year by going into such antics. I sincerely hope that Vettel takes Alonso out and thus end this conspiracy nonsense.

[taffy]

I think that between the FIA and Alonso`s constant whinging this season has been turned into a joke. For years while Schumacher was at Ferrari he was given number one status and many races were blatantly "fixed" in his favour as far back as when Eddie Irvine was his team mate. Did the FIA ever appoint an independant scrutineer in the Ferrari garge to ensure no bias toward Schumacher? I think not.. Does this now mean that Massa will complain also to the FIA about Kimi`s number one staus and get his contract torn up??
It`s about time Alonso stopped moaning. He is the current world champion that does not give him an automatic right to number one staus within the team, he knew this when he signed the contract. His problem is that he probably thought that he could easily out race Lewis, but Lewis has taken the race to him and got the upper hand. If you want to be number one then prove it where it counts most, not moan your way to the title....

[ioan]

Better still. Why don't the FIA cancel the Brazilian GP and meet in Paris to decide who they want to win the WDC. Of course they could invite the heads of certain motorsport federations to help them decide.

We all know who is the preferred one in that case, enough to red Bernie's comments.

[ArrowsFA1]

We all know who is the preferred one in that case, enough to red Bernie's comments.
As much as the FIA, this (sorry, but) pathetic blathering on about how Hamilton is being "favoured" is beyond laughable.

The internet is a wonderful thing, but it does allow any old rubbish to be aired at times. Once it's been aired, it's discussed and debated, even as if it were fact sometimes. It's not.

If Lewis Hamilton wins the WDC this year it will be 1) a remarkable achievement for a rookie 2) deserved, and 3) hard fought for against a 2xWDC driving the same car. It will not be because an FIA official decided on the outcome.

[SGWilko]

We all know who is the preferred one in that case, enough to red Bernie's comments.


Is that a clue Ioan?

[markabilly]

Just when i thought i was the only cazy nut case paranoid... whatever, drinking too much of my own kool aid, i wake this morning to find all this:

My oh my





Better still. Why don't the FIA cancel the Brazilian GP and meet in Paris to decide who they want to win the WDC. Of course they could invite the heads of certain motorsport federations to help them decide.

Opps...there you go, careful :D :D


Especially when the FIA are working the smoke machine!

SO deep down inside, the kool aid has failed to leave you completely blinded, and you seem to see the truth :D


Gee, thanks for reminding us....


We all know who is the preferred one in that case, enough to red Bernie's comments.

You mean read....??? Like all those interviews and off the cuff coments since Australia??


This way RD can restore his "integrity", as, IF LH beats FA, he can claim it was done without interfering with FA in any way, hence the "legendary" equality.

Of course there is enough time to subtly "tweak" FA's car in the run up to the race on Sunday, and surely, the FIA delegate would require a working knowledge of the McLaren teams engineering / operations in order to detect anything foul?

I was also under the impression that said FIA delegate was there at RD's invitation, and not in an official FIA capacity??

Cheers,
Of course, that is why i wondered just what some 'official" would be looking or doing anyway....

Apparently there will now be two, the Spanard and the appointed or annoited "special Scrutineer" (which is why Max called me yesterday...as I reported earlier) :D No doubt he will be a proper brit who knows what to do to take care of "the good of the sport"....

(Funny thing is I think that Feddie might get the WDC, but what he deserves is a felony conviction for blackmail, assuming what RD said is only half-true..but that would be off topic)

However, to parphrase a certain movie....Just when I thought it could not really get any weirder than what my own "sicko" imagination could produce after mucho smoking and thought no one could beat old markabilly in the insanity race (please see http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121959), well,


"I give you the FIA""


Thanks to maxie and the FIA, I know now that I am not alone...... :beer:

[fandango]

If Lewis Hamilton wins the WDC this year it will be 1) a remarkable achievement for a rookie 2) deserved, and 3) hard fought for against a 2xWDC driving the same car. It will not be because an FIA official decided on the outcome.

I agree with that. However, I think that equality sometimes needs pro-active bias to be really equal. Back in the days of Hakkinen and Coulthard at McLaren, there was that famous time when DC moved over to let Hakkinen win in Australia. While the team then maintained equality, I think DC often felt that the imbalance of the Aus GP was never rectified, mostly due to Hakkinen being in with a chance of the title. So is that equal treatment?

Now, people are quick to draw conclusions about Alonso's so called blackmailing of his team. They condemn him for threatening to do something, which we've all done in heated moments. But we don't know exactly what Alonso wanted, and my own belief is that he wanted things re-balanced properly after he was the one who lost out due to Hamilton's disobeying of team orders.

I reckon Alonso probably is as mad and paranoid as people say, but that doesn't make him a villain, and ultimately the responsibility lies with Ron Dennis for allowing things to get out of hand. I'm sure Alonso suffered at the start of the season when he saw Hamilton's pace, but it was at Monaco that this all went silly, when Hamilton was supposedly held back.

[Bagwan]

Alonso might be characterized as being paranoid by some , but , just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you .

Just like DC did , Fernando sees the excitement in the pits when Lewis gets the pole .
I think Alonso , feeling mis-treated himself , just plain got tired of hearing Ron exclaim equality between drivers as his mantra .

He had seen favouritism in Ron's team , and supposed it would continue .
It did , but not in his favour , and then seeing his role as the making of the star , not being one , he decided not to play .

The irony in it from that point of view is that Alonso's move to "blackmail"(Ron's description , I believe) was in response to his feeling the he wasn't treated fairly .
What Fernando used for the "blackmail" was illegal activity within the team , which is what Ron was denying already .
That's hardly the moral high ground on which to accuse someone of "blackmail" .

[schmenke]

I agree with that. However, I think that equality sometimes needs pro-active bias to be really equal. Back in the days of Hakkinen and Coulthard at McLaren, there was that famous time when DC moved over to let Hakkinen win in Australia. ....

That was not done under team orders.

[ioan]

Is that a clue Ioan?

No, just a typo.

[Tazio]

Actually I don't have a negative opinion regarding this matter.
As my British friends like to declare(not necessarily in this case)
I think "it's a tempest in a teacup"
and will only serve to give the Speed TV commentators
something to talk about during the pre-race
(as if there isn't enough subject matter for them to espouse)
However, for those of you that have objections to this scrutineering episode.
Add one more cheese that is laying down with Ron in Punkdom,
removing his briefs, while begging “Thank you sir may I have another?


"Frankfurt- Mercedes motorsport director Norbert Haug on
Friday said that he would welcome a FIA special scrutineer in their
box during the Brazilian Grand Prix to make sure of parity between
McLaren-Mercedes'.
The head of the Spanish motorsport federation Carlos Gracia had
earlier called on the sports' governing body FIA to place a
scrutineer in the McLaren box to make sure that Fernando Alonso would
not be treated unfairly by the team.

Haug told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa that the team would fully
co-operate with any scrutineer."

http://rawstory.com/news/dpa/Haug_would_welcome_a_FIA_steward_ch_10122007.html

[ioan]

Alonso might be characterized as being paranoid by some , but , just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you .

Just like DC did , Fernando sees the excitement in the pits when Lewis gets the pole .
I think Alonso , feeling mis-treated himself , just plain got tired of hearing Ron exclaim equality between drivers as his mantra .

He had seen favouritism in Ron's team , and supposed it would continue .
It did , but not in his favour , and then seeing his role as the making of the star , not being one , he decided not to play .

The irony in it from that point of view is that Alonso's move to "blackmail"(Ron's description , I believe) was in response to his feeling the he wasn't treated fairly .
What Fernando used for the "blackmail" was illegal activity within the team , which is what Ron was denying already .
That's hardly the moral high ground on which to accuse someone of "blackmail" .

Ron's alleged high moral standards have no other ground than his own overconfidence and his fans bias.
There is not one team out there that equally threated their drivers.

[fandango]

That was not done under team orders.

No, they just asked him nicely ;) What difference does it make? When one driver is favoured (which I have no problem with) they can't say they treat them equally.

[trumperZ06]

Alonso might be characterized as being paranoid by some , but , just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you .

Just like DC did , Fernando sees the excitement in the pits when Lewis gets the pole .
I think Alonso , feeling mis-treated himself , just plain got tired of hearing Ron exclaim equality between drivers as his mantra .

He had seen favouritism in Ron's team , and supposed it would continue .
It did , but not in his favour , and then seeing his role as the making of the star , not being one , he decided not to play .

The irony in it from that point of view is that Alonso's move to "blackmail"(Ron's description , I believe) was in response to his feeling the he wasn't treated fairly .
What Fernando used for the "blackmail" was illegal activity within the team , which is what Ron was denying already .
That's hardly the moral high ground on which to accuse someone of "blackmail" .

:rolleyes: Bagwan...

as you should know... according to the information given out in the press...

When Alonso made the attempt to BLACKMAIL Dennis,

RD asked another McLaren team member (Whitmarsh sp. I think)...

to come in... and then had Alonso repeat the charge.

Ron then went directly to Mosley and advised him of Alonso's charges!!!

Neither Alonso nor Molsey have denied Ron Dennis's account, or the press reports, about this...

so your inference about the moral high ground... is preposterous !!!

Dennis as well as any other CEO of a company with 13000 plus employees...

certainly can not be expected to be privy to e-mails which are secretly exchanged from one employee to another.

No one has presented any evidience showing that McLaren... as a company, or that RD knew about these e-mails before Alonso told Dennis... who then went directly to Molsey to report the alligations.


:s mokin:

[Bagwan]

Is that the same Whitmarsh to whom Coughlan said he showed the 780 pages of documents ?

Some high moral ground he has there .

[Ian McC]

What a load of rubbish.

F1 has no credibility left :down:

[Crypt]

Boo! I was hoping to see Fred and Lewy kicking sand in eachother's face while Kimi waves and drives to V.

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.

[markabilly]

WeEll like I said, when you thought that no one could up with any weirder fatansies, I give you the FIA--except this is not fantansy, it is reality. :eek:

Just what are these guys going to catch??? Even if the most flagarant things occur to one car ot the other, it can happen so that it will, never, ever be obvious to some so called official FIA official
:rolleyes:



However, fear not, after being so highly inspired by the FIA and feeling challenged somehow to top that......and after much thought and other stuff.....I have it.....here it is:

there is lottery drawing of all tickets issued to fans to gain admittance...the lucky winner must then produce a coin, any coin.

Then on the grid, right before qualification starts, he tosses the coin atleast 20 feet in the air (carefully observed by special scrutinneer to ensure the good of the sport) where it lands on the grid--depending on the result of the coin toss, tails they switch cars and heads they do not switch cars...then each is stuck with that car for the Q and for the race!!!

or perhaps after Q, there is another toss to see if the cars change again...

Now what to do about those little cheaters in pit crews...say Spkyer does one and super-agri does the other, again depending on a coin toss deciding where each car goes right before each pit stop....think of the drama, benie boy would love it.... think of all the people tuning in on the boob tube just to see the drama of the flip or perhaps to see if anyone could really be that stupid ......

The obvious answer....... :bounce: :bandit: :roll:

[Tazio]

Dennis... who then went directly to Molsey to report the alligations.


:s mokin:The version I heard was that Dennis went directly to Mosley to report the alligators Fred released in his office Loo

[trumperZ06]

The version I heard was that Dennis went directly to Mosley to report the alligators Fred released in his office Loo

:D Naw... the straight story is...

;) Dennis would have liked to put Fredies Gators into Mosley's office Loo !!!

[trumperZ06]

;) Sorry... Dbl post.

[AJP]

This is max's way of further disabling McLaren to give FIArrari a better chance at winning the drivers championship...

[Tazio]

:D Naw... the straight story is...

;) Dennis would have liked to put Fredies Gators into Mosley's office Loo !!!CHOMP!!

[trumperZ06]

CHOMP!!

:D Low hanging Fruit ??? :beer: ;)

[hmmm - donuts]

Has anybody said what penalty, if any, will be imposed if it is believed that the team are favouring Hamilton? Can any penalty be imposed? After all it has always been the case that some teams have had a number one driver and have never been penalised for this. Also, at what point do you say a driver is being favoured? - after all someone has to get the first pit stop, and someone the second, etc etc.

[tinchote]

Has anybody said what penalty, if any, will be imposed if it is believed that the team are favouring Hamilton? Can any penalty be imposed? After all it has always been the case that some teams have had a number one driver and have never been penalised for this. Also, at what point do you say a driver is being favoured? - after all someone has to get the first pit stop, and someone the second, etc etc.

That's a very good question. It will also interesting to see how they will distinguish a mistake from sabotage.

[markabilly]

Has anybody said what penalty, if any, will be imposed if it is believed that the team are favouring Hamilton? Can any penalty be imposed? After all it has always been the case that some teams have had a number one driver and have never been penalised for this. Also, at what point do you say a driver is being favoured? - after all someone has to get the first pit stop, and someone the second, etc etc.

You refer to team orders rule---something I have never understood as being logically enforced by FIA, (as with a million other things that are FIA, common logic has nothing to do with nothing)

The rule seems to be that team orders affecting outcome of race are okay, unless they produce a public display that makes it seem that the orders are affecting the outcome of a race or one of the drivers makes a big public fuss, making it bad for the sport

In other words, it is okay to quietly arrange pit stops, etc., so that they affect the race outcome or permit a teamamate to get ahead, but it is NOT OKAY to have the paddle man hold a car for too long while the other driver sits behind and then later fusses--even in qualifying, after the other driver broke team orders as to who was to do what---I guess that is not quiet enough. It is not okay to have one driver sit in pit stall to keep other driver out, if the other driver fusses loudly enough.......

It is NOT okay to have a teamate pass another teamate on the last corner per team orders where everyone can see it....but earlier in the race, if done without being too public, it is okay and it is okay to tell a team mate to back off another team mate (or so it seems) again as long as there is no big public fuss...

Please do not respond that such a rule makes no sense, is subjective and so forth, but that seems to be the "real rules" behind the team order rule..... :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

You refer to team orders rule---something I have never understood as being logically enforced by FIA, (as with a million other things that are FIA, common logic has nothing to do with nothing)

The rule seems to be that team orders affecting outcome of race are okay, unless they produce a public display that makes it seem that the orders are affecting the outcome of a race or one of the drivers makes a big public fuss, making it bad for the sport

In other words, it is okay to quietly arrange pit stops, etc., so that they affect the race outcome or permit a teamamate to get ahead,
Don't be surprised if there is a very broad interpretation of this rule in Brazil
Personally I think it will cause a tremendous amount of controversy and a really convoluted conclusion if they don’t narrow it down to one team driver taking out another team’s driver. Or in Fred's case taking out his own driver! If Massa's pit stop is synchronized to get him out in front of Hamy and really only drive fast enough to keep him behind look for a black flag, or more likely an immediate drive through penalty with the threat of a black flag for non compliance

[markabilly]

Don't be surprised if there is a very broad interpretation of this rule in Brazil
Personally I think it will cause a tremendous amount of controversy and a really convoluted conclusion if they don’t narrow it down to one team driver taking out another team’s driver. Or in Fred's case taking out his own driver! If Massa's pit stop is synchronized to get him out in front of Hamy and really only drive fast enough to keep him behind look for a black flag, or more likely an immediate drive through penalty with the threat of a black flag for non compliance
No doubt if the opportunity presents itself......the FIA will maximize the opportunity to do something :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

:beer: Guess i should have said "something real stupid", and given the "official whatever is he gonna do scrutineer"....they are off to an excellent start for this race....

And for all you anti-Hamilton or pro FA fans, what makes you think that the real purpose to to see that FA is treated fairly.....or just to make it appear that way........


But not to worry, I understand that he will also be in charge of serving refreshments.....choices of grape, cherry, pink or other colors, with just a touch of wood alcohol, of...................... well you know :beer:

"Never fear, Ham, Scrutineer is here"

[Tazio]

:beer: Guess i should have said "something real stupid", and given the "official whatever is he gonna do scrutineer"....they are off to an excellent start for this race....

And for all you anti-Hamilton or pro FA fans, what makes you think that the real purpose to to see that FA is treated fairly.....or just to make it appear that way........


But not to worry, I understand that he will also be in charge of serving refreshments.....choices of grape, cherry, pink or other colors, with just a touch of wood alcohol, of...................... well you know :beer:

"Never fear, Ham, Scrutineer is here"
As we all know the one thing that sets the Grand Prix of Brazil apart from all other GP's are the Brazilian Pit Babes! T__'s, head, and shoulders above the rest! Now they are something that could easily coerce me to sip the Kool-Aid. And given a little quality time with one, or two before hand I would die a happy man.
Not only that but I truly would be an impartial screwtineer

[Valve Bounce]

As I posted on the other thread:"Can you imagine the FIA going to Ferrari, while Michael Schumacher was at the helm, and insisting that his No.2 Rubens Barrichello or Eddie Irvine, was accorded the same privileges and that both men had to race on an equal footing?"

[wmcot]

Wow! I leave for a few days vacation with the family and I come back to this weird mess! A couple of questions have come to mind:

1. Who is this FIA official and does he know every little detail about setting up a McLaren including engine mapping, programming traction control, chassis set-up, etc. Why don't they send Nigel Stepney? FA and LH don't have exactly the same set-up since their driving styles vary. Will LH be forced to use FA's exact setup?

2. If the scenario arises where FA takes LH out at the first corner, will this official say that it was a mechanical failure on FA's car caused by the team?

3. Aren't team orders much less messy than all this stuff? Yeah, there might have been a bit of a rumble when MH was favored over DC, or MS over RB and EI, or even EI being gifted a win by Mika Salo, but all that was plainly obvious to all fans and FIA officials alike. The team orders Ferrari had for MS were nothing compared to this total fiasco!

[janneppi]

Sniffpetrol has made it's opinion on the matter quite clear I see. :D

[schmenke]

You refer to team orders rule---something I have never understood as being logically enforced by FIA, (as with a million other things that are FIA, common logic has nothing to do with nothing)

The rule seems to be that team orders affecting outcome of race are okay, unless they produce a public display that makes it seem that the orders are affecting the outcome of a race or one of the drivers makes a big public fuss, making it bad for the sport

In other words, it is okay to quietly arrange pit stops, etc., so that they affect the race outcome or permit a teamamate to get ahead, but it is NOT OKAY to have the paddle man hold a car for too long while the other driver sits behind and then later fusses--even in qualifying, after the other driver broke team orders as to who was to do what---I guess that is not quiet enough. It is not okay to have one driver sit in pit stall to keep other driver out, if the other driver fusses loudly enough.......

It is NOT okay to have a teamate pass another teamate on the last corner per team orders where everyone can see it....but earlier in the race, if done without being too public, it is okay and it is okay to tell a team mate to back off another team mate (or so it seems) again as long as there is no big public fuss...

Please do not respond that such a rule makes no sense, is subjective and so forth, but that seems to be the "real rules" behind the team order rule..... :rolleyes:

Yep, it is a very ambiguous rule.

I’ve always thought that the purpose of "no team orders" rule was to avoid obvious displays of favouratism; specifically to avoid further on-track incidents like the Schumacher – Barrichello one in Austria.

[hmmm - donuts]

Another thought - the FIA want to ensure that Hamilton isn't favoured over Alonso - this is after a) allowing Hamilton to be craned back onto the track under pretty dubious circumstances, and b) penalising Alonso 5 places for holding up Hamilton in the pits. Looks to me like it's the FIA that have been favouring Hamilton.

[tinchote]

Yep, it is a very ambiguous rule.

I’ve always thought that the purpose of "no team orders" rule was to avoid obvious displays of favouratism; specifically to avoid further on-track incidents like the Schumacher – Barrichello one in Austria.

It is. But because they need to try and avoid "loopholes", the rule is formulated in a vague way. Please refer to my signature for more conclusions ;) :p :

[BDunnell]

As others have said in various ways, how can this ever be defined or enforced? Utterly ridiculous. I would love to read an explanation of how it can.

[ioan]

Everyone is fed up that apparently there will be someone appointed by the FIA to check that FA receives equal treatment in his quest against LH.

Not being fond of any of the two drivers I can only say that it was a very very good move by the FIA to accept the Spanish Federation's request, because let's not forget it wasn't the FIA's idea.

FA made a public comment about his fears that the team may disadvantage him in comparison with Hamilton. It wasn't because he knew that McLaren will do it, it's (as it was the case with Renault 1 year ago) just a very astute way to make sure that this won't happen, as McLaren can't afford to make any mistake now that the Spaniard has directed all the eyes on them.
And as we all know a day or two later McLaren felt the need to declare publicly that they won't favor any driver. At this moment it was 1-0 to Alonso.

Why did the Spanish Federation feel the need to ask for the right to closely watch the proceedings from the McLaren box, or were they (as some believe) invited by McLaren to do so? I have no idea.
But we know that the FIA happily accepted it as they know that this will only add to the transparency of the final fight. And at this moment transparency and fair play is all that F1 needs.

The FIA know that the person appointed for this task won't be able to check everything, not even if it was Ross Brawn himself, McLaren knows it also, Alonso and the Spanish Federation know it too. It's just a move to give people a stronger impression of fairness no matter what happens.
Don't worry, no matter what happens, no one will come screaming that Ron favored Hamilton! ;)

In the end I fail to see why everyone is so outraged because of this so called "checking of McLaren's intra-team equality"! And everyone also includes Jackie Stewart, who should know even better than us, with his ridiculous claims. :)

[ArrowsFA1]

...It wasn't because he knew that McLaren will do it, it's (as it was the case with Renault 1 year ago) just a very astute way to make sure that this won't happen...
Can you explain why the FIA did not send one of their officials into the Renault garage to ensure that Alonso was being treated fairly or equally?

[ioan]

Can you explain why the FIA did not send one of their officials into the Renault garage to ensure that Alonso was being treated fairly or equally?

Because the image of the sport wasn't at a low as it is now and because Renault weren't a team with the "Chater's" label hanging over their heads, and also because he wasn't fighting his team mate in the WDC fight.

[ArrowsFA1]

Because the image of the sport wasn't at a low as it is now and because Renault weren't a team with the "Chater's" label hanging over their heads, and also because he wasn't fighting his team mate in the WDC fight.
Well Renault had been caught "cheating" (with their use of the mass damper), and their #1 driver was complaining that he didn't have the support of the team he was driving for. Sound familiar?

[SGWilko]

Well Renault had been caught "cheating" (with their use of the mass damper), and their #1 driver was complaining that he didn't have the support of the team he was driving for. Sound familiar?

Very, I don't suppose there is a common denominator here do you?

Like, perhaps, Alon_______so unhappy that I am being beaten by a rookie, and therefore he MUST be getting better treatment.

Tsk :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

Everyone is fed up that apparently there will be someone appointed by the FIA to check that FA receives equal treatment in his quest against LH.

Not being fond of any of the two drivers I can only say that it was a very very good move by the FIA to accept the Spanish Federation's request, because let's not forget it wasn't the FIA's idea.

FA made a public comment about his fears that the team may disadvantage him in comparison with Hamilton. It wasn't because he knew that McLaren will do it, it's (as it was the case with Renault 1 year ago) just a very astute way to make sure that this won't happen, as McLaren can't afford to make any mistake now that the Spaniard has directed all the eyes on them.
And as we all know a day or two later McLaren felt the need to declare publicly that they won't favor any driver. At this moment it was 1-0 to Alonso.

Why did the Spanish Federation feel the need to ask for the right to closely watch the proceedings from the McLaren box, or were they (as some believe) invited by McLaren to do so? I have no idea.
But we know that the FIA happily accepted it as they know that this will only add to the transparency of the final fight. And at this moment transparency and fair play is all that F1 needs.

The FIA know that the person appointed for this task won't be able to check everything, not even if it was Ross Brawn himself, McLaren knows it also, Alonso and the Spanish Federation know it too. It's just a move to give people a stronger impression of fairness no matter what happens.
Don't worry, no matter what happens, no one will come screaming that Ron favored Hamilton! ;)

In the end I fail to see why everyone is so outraged because of this so called "checking of McLaren's intra-team equality"! And everyone also includes Jackie Stewart, who should know even better than us, with his ridiculous claims.

My feelings are based on the fact that if you read my posts, I think it is a joke--and really insulting to a real race fan....

Just what is he going to do? Check air pressures? Check engine mapping? Examine clutch parts? Run engines on dynos? Measure ride height?Check air/gas composition in tires? Check shocks to ascertain proper rebound?

or just stand around and go :monkeedan

Maybe he could check Mac for flexible floors or hidden mass dampers that work better on LH's cars rather than FA?


Oh, I get it, you say it is because:"It's just a move to give people a stronger impression of fairness no matter what happens."
Sort of like having a referre/umpire in thos pro westling matches!!!! gives a stronger impression of fairness.....well all they have to do is :beer:


If they want " a really big shoooooww" of fairness, the kind that PT Barnum would put on, I still say the best way is to start flipping quarters (or max/benie) such that neither the team nor FA or LH know what car/set up they will have right before qualifying and the race....with special pit crews selected from other teams...Might be a big joke as well, but it would ensure more fairness than this big joke.... :crazy: ...

and add more suspense and drama ("will he go or will he stay..." just like all the posts on who is driving for who next year), especially since passing does not happen in races and when attempts are made, are likely to result in penalties than a real pass,...... esp. with like the Kube attempt on LH..........

[BDunnell]

Will the FIA also be ensuring that the inherent disadvantage the rookie Hamilton is at compared with the twice WDC Alonso is ironed out?

[ioan]

Will the FIA also be ensuring that the inherent disadvantage the rookie Hamilton is at compared with the twice WDC Alonso is ironed out?

And what else? Maybe allow Fernando to use only one hand to bring him down to Hamilton's level?! :rolleyes:

Can you explain why the FIA did not send one of their officials into the Renault garage to ensure that Alonso was being treated fairly or equally?

Because they weren't approached by the Spanish Automobile Club?

People seem to be seeing this as it being against Mclaren, but, to be honest, I think it will help them.

If Hamilton wins the title, as I expect him too, then having an observer in the garage from the FIA gives Alonso's inevitable after-season outbursts very little credibility.

[ioan]

People seem to be seeing this as it being against Mclaren, but, to be honest, I think it will help them.

If Hamilton wins the title, as I expect him too, then having an observer in the garage from the FIA gives Alonso's inevitable after-season outbursts very little credibility.

Ofcourse it will help McLaren, and it will help to keep F1 cleaner once the checkered flag drops.
Alonso won't dare to accuse McLaren of sabotaging his chances when there was a FIA observer "making sure" this won't happen.

The uproar in this forum and generally in the British media just goes to show how little the "Hamilton fanatics" use their brains before jumping on the "Hate Mosely" bandwagon driven by a certain Stewart. :rolleyes:

[Roamy]

My only question is which McLaren will get the engine swap penalty??

[Garry Walker]

My only question is which McLaren will get the engine swap penalty??

For what?
Do you understand F1 at all?

Just for the record, I can also understand the frustration of Mclaren fans feeling that once again their favoured team is in a position where its credibility is being questioned, but to be fair to Mosley, what else could the FIA do?

If Stewart had his way it appears that nothing would be done, which would only really be OK if Alonso wins the title.

Doing nothing and Alonso not winning the title would just drag the sport through the mud again.

My only question is which McLaren will get the engine swap penalty??

Which brings up a valid point.

For the FIA observer to be of any real use, then wouldn't he (or she?) have to watch every component of Fernando's car being manufactured, tested and assembled?

Or, perhaps in the interests of fairness, Ron might tell his drivers to toss a coin for their engines before they come out of the crates?

I understand why those of us (or those of you, since I'm being generous) with a whole lot of knowledge think that the observer is a barmy notion, but will the average, non-fanatical casual viewer be concerned by his/her lack of impact or just think that the organisers have done their best to ensure a clean fight?

Thinking of it from what I think is the FIA's viewpoint, so long as it appears to have been refereed fairly, then the vast majority will happily accept the result.

[SGWilko]

The uproar in this forum and generally in the British media just goes to show how little the "Hamilton fanatics" use their brains before jumping on the "Hate Mosely" bandwagon driven by a certain Stewart. :rolleyes:

Blah blah blah :talk:

[BDunnell]

And what else? Maybe allow Fernando to use only one hand to bring him down to Hamilton's level?! :rolleyes:

Is this the sort of 'intelligent comment' that you feel is so lacking in the British media?

[SGWilko]

Which brings up a valid point.

For the FIA observer to be of any real use, then wouldn't he (or she?) have to watch every component of Fernando's car being manufactured, tested and assembled?

Or, perhaps in the interests of fairness, Ron might tell his drivers to toss a coin for their engines before they come out of the crates?

I understand why those of us (or those of you, since I'm being generous) with a whole lot of knowledge think that the observer is a barmy notion, but will the average, non-fanatical casual viewer be concerned by his/her lack of impact or just think that the organisers have done their best to ensure a clean fight?

Thinking of it from what I think is the FIA's viewpoint, so long as it appears to have been refereed fairly, then the vast majority will happily accept the result.

You are just making the point as to just how ridiculous this observer is. MM might just as well employ Paris chuffing Hilton to inspect the cars, it'l be just as hapless. :s nore:

[BDunnell]

The uproar in this forum and generally in the British media just goes to show how little the "Hamilton fanatics" use their brains before jumping on the "Hate Mosely" bandwagon driven by a certain Stewart. :rolleyes:

I am no 'Hamilton fanatic', but I believe Stewart's comments were entirely justified, as I have said elsewhere. Not everyone holds a point of view in favour of one side because they hate the other, and vice versa. This is not how opinions always work.

[markabilly]

Which brings up a valid point.

For the FIA observer to be of any real use, then wouldn't he (or she?) have to watch every component of Fernando's car being manufactured, tested and assembled?

Or, perhaps in the interests of fairness, Ron might tell his drivers to toss a coin for their engines before they come out of the crates?

I understand why those of us (or those of you, since I'm being generous) with a whole lot of knowledge think that the observer is a barmy notion, but will the average, non-fanatical casual viewer be concerned by his/her lack of impact or just think that the organisers have done their best to ensure a clean fight?

Thinking of it from what I think is the FIA's viewpoint, so long as it appears to have been refereed fairly, then the vast majority will happily accept the result.

Good idea--then flip coins for the cars right before the race!!!



You are just making the point as to just how ridiculous this observer is. MM might just as well employ Paris chuffing Hilton to inspect the cars, it'l be just as hapless. :s nore:


Hapless? depends on how she handles her duties.......might be prettty entertaining...did you see her TV show about her going around, and "performing various jobs" across the country......Very well qualified, as she knows how to drive a car, although she does seem to have some driver's license issues...occaisionally.....


All this really is more kool-aid for the masses...embarrassing it would be that anyone on this forum would take all this FIA/MM stuff as a serious attempt at fairness :rolleyes:

[ioan]

I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't that British are afraid that it might come to light that Hamilton is favored by the team in his fight against Alonso.
Otherwise I can't understand why you are against any measure that would only bring equity?! :rolleyes:

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't that British are afraid that it might come to light that Hamilton is favored by the team in his fight against Alonso.
Otherwise I can't understand why you are against any measure that would only bring equity?! :rolleyes:
This measure by the FIA doesn't bring any sort of equity whatsoever. In fact it's Max at his best. All it does is give credibility to rumours, and by doing so allows the FIA to play out an inevitable role. Of course when nothing is found by this observer over the weekend the FIA can claim it was because they had a presence in the garage. Good for them.

Perhaps they'll appoint such an observer to every team garage next season...just in case.

All it does is give credibility to rumours

In much the same way that your demand that the FIA investigate a certain Italian team would.

I do believe that you were all for the FIA getting involved with that accusation.

How come the sudden 180 degree change of opinion?

[Bagwan]

I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't that British are afraid that it might come to light that Hamilton is favored by the team in his fight against Alonso.
Otherwise I can't understand why you are against any measure that would only bring equity?! :rolleyes:

Not one , but 2 observers in the pit does look good as the team has welcomed them in .
It looks bad also , though , as they are perceived as warranted .

One issue brought in is the capability of the steward to be able to discern any irregularities at all , and the uselessness of the exercise .
As it is , though , this may be a real issue of controversy , should Alonso point a finger during the weekend . Given that the observers will likely be at sea as to what to observe at all , they might be hoping for some direction of a sort , if they are to spy any sabotage .

But , then , the machine will roll on , "Markabilly style" , churning out miles and miles of inches of press , and buckets and buckets of money for the ruling class , long after the season has drawn to a close .

In other words , don't expect a clear winner in Brazil .

[Dave B]

I too am baffled as to how exactly this FIA observer will ensure the cars are 100% equal beyond the most basic checks they can perform such as mass, tyre pressures, fuel loads etc.

[BDunnell]

I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't that British are afraid that it might come to light that Hamilton is favored by the team in his fight against Alonso.
Otherwise I can't understand why you are against any measure that would only bring equity?! :rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with any issues of nationality. Again, you assume that others hold views for reasons, such as being a fan of one team in particular or because of nationality, rather than just having opinions that they've thought about.

[BDunnell]

I too am baffled as to how exactly this FIA observer will ensure the cars are 100% equal beyond the most basic checks they can perform such as mass, tyre pressures, fuel loads etc.

Exactly. No-one is able to come up with a decent explanation based on anything other than their pre-existing views about teams and drivers.

[ArrowsFA1]

How come the sudden 180 degree change of opinion?
No change. Entirely different circumstances.

No change. Entirely different circumstances.

But an accusation has been made. That is not an entirely different circumstance.

[markabilly]

I too am baffled as to how exactly this FIA observer will ensure the cars are 100% equal beyond the most basic checks they can perform such as mass, tyre pressures, fuel loads etc.


Do not forget checking for suspicious white powders on Ron's pants....

I am sure Paris will NOT be interested in checking the pants, however if someone tells her what ron is worth, that might change........... :D

[ioan]

No change. Entirely different circumstances.

Yep, it's about McLaren and not about Ferrari! :rolleyes:

If it was Ferrari being in this situation you would be all saying how right Max is. Impressive at least.

No-one is able to come up with a decent explanation based on anything other than their pre-existing views about teams and drivers.



If Hamilton wins the title, as I expect him too, then having an observer in the garage from the FIA gives Alonso's inevitable after-season outbursts very little credibility.

I'm not exactly qualified as a Mclaren fan, so how does the above explanation have anything to do with my dislike of Wokings finest?

[BDunnell]

Yep, it's about McLaren and not about Ferrari! :rolleyes:

If it was Ferrari being in this situation you would be all saying how right Max is. Impressive at least.

I certainly wouldn't. Yet again, your arguments are spoilt by the fact that you don't realise that not everyone is actually partisan. Sorry to trot this out again, but it's true.

[ioan]

Again, you assume that others hold views for reasons, such as being a fan of one team in particular or because of nationality, rather than just having opinions that they've thought about.

We all do things because of reasons, and reasons exist because of reasoning (which can be the right or th wrong one). I don't see anything wrong with it.

[hmmm - donuts]

Max Mosley has said, "It is the role of the FIA to ensure that the rules of the sport are respected and that fairness is applied consistently for all competitors". Note the words, "ALL competitors" - presumably this should not mean just McLaren. So much then for "fairness" and consistently" eh Max?

[ArrowsFA1]

Yep, it's about McLaren and not about Ferrari! :rolleyes:
No it's not ioan. It's about what hmmm - donuts has pointed out.

[BDunnell]

We all do things because of reasons, and reasons exist because of reasoning (which can be the right or th wrong one). I don't see anything wrong with it.

I believe that, in complicated situations such as these, it's best to look at them more dispassionately.

[BDunnell]

Max Mosley has said, "It is the role of the FIA to ensure that the rules of the sport are respected and that fairness is applied consistently for all competitors". Note the words, "ALL competitors" - presumably this should not mean just McLaren. So much then for "fairness" and consistently" eh Max?

Well, team orders are already illegal. That ought to suffice.

[schmenke]

Well, team orders are already illegal...

Team orders are, but favouratism is not. Subtle difference there...

[ioan]

No it's not ioan. It's about what hmmm - donuts has pointed out.

Who says that the FIA wouldn't do the same with other teams too if drivers would complain about favoritism towards their team mate while fighting for the title?
For now we only have Alonso, so I fail to see what should FIA check in other teams if there is no complaint?!

[BDunnell]

Team orders are, but favouratism is not. Subtle difference there...

Well, favouritism has probably gone on in teams since F1 time immemorial and there's not a lot that can be done about it. We don't expect everyone in every walk of life to get on with their boss and colleagues, after all.

[BDunnell]

Who says that the FIA wouldn't do the same with other teams too if drivers would complain about favoritism towards their team mate while fighting for the title?
For now we only have Alonso, so I fail to see what should FIA check in other teams if there is no complaint?!

No-one has thought to make the complaint. This situation has got completely out of hand in every respect, and, before you or anyone else says anything, I would honestly say this if it was Ferrari or any other team involved.

[schmenke]

Who says that the FIA wouldn't do the same with other teams too if drivers would complain about favoritism towards their team mate while fighting for the title?
For now we only have Alonso, so I fail to see what should FIA check in other teams if there is no complaint?!

It demonstrates that the FIA are not applying, nor enforcing, a regulation equally among the teams. If a complaint is lodged against a team, then all other teams should be subject to the same scrutiny.

I remember waaaaay back ( :erm: ) when I was in university, a complaint was made by a student that another had used a prohibited programmable calculator during a mid-term exam. For the subsequent final exams, the professor made it clear that all students’ calculators would be verified, not just the one student.

O.k., perhaps somewhat a simplistic example (and outdated :uhoh: ) but you get my point :p :

[tinchote]

I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't that British are afraid that it might come to light that Hamilton is favored by the team in his fight against Alonso.
Otherwise I can't understand why you are against any measure that would only bring equity?! :rolleyes:

I don't agree. Personally I don't think that McLaren has hampered FA in any way. In spite of that I still that this measure is ridiculous, illegal, and unfair.

It will be interesting to see if, in the future, any driver pushes with this when they feel they are not given everything by the team.

[markabilly]

Originally Posted by BDunnell http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=369369#post369369)
Well, team orders are already illegal...


Team orders are, but favouratism is not. Subtle difference there...

No sir,
Team orders are okay as long as they are not based on favoritism
Team orders are okay as long as they do not affect the outcome of the race
Team orders are okay as long as they do not cause bad publicity
Team orders are okay as long as they no one heard the orders
Team orders are okay as long as no one disobeys the team orders
Team orders are okay as long as no one obeys the team orders
Team orders are okay as long as your favorite get the advantage
Team orders are okay as long as benrie........ :rolleyes:

[tinchote]

In my view, the way to see how ridiculous this is, is this: what would happen if the observer claims that one driver was favoured over the other? What penalty will the FIA apply and to whom? What rule is being violated?

[Tazio]

In my view, the way to see how ridiculous this is, is this: what would happen if the observer claims that one driver was favoured over the other? What penalty will the FIA apply and to whom? What rule is being violated?
Thats quite simple. If the team is McLaren they must Tar, and Feather Ron. Then have Fred drag him around Circuit de Catalunya by a rope while riding a vintage Bultaco.

[markabilly]

In my view, the way to see how ridiculous this is, is this: what would happen if the observer claims that one driver was favoured over the other? What penalty will the FIA apply and to whom? What rule is being violated?


Well first, we are going to have to wait on the chemical analysis of the suspicious white powder that paris will have found on Ron's pants....and indeed, the case of the frame-up on NS might well be explained,

but not to worry, Maxie will offer immunity to any drivers who turn in any emails..........and slap another 100 million on Mac......all in fundamental fairness to all

As to emails, FA will turn a couple of eamils with photos attached that show maxi and bernie in a "compromising position" with each other :love: ,


but FA will accidentally send it to the wrong address where it ends up in the paper-- :eek:

Fa will later explain that he never intended for that to happen as he agreed with Maxie not to do anything with them if Maxie appointed the spanish screwtineer......but then when the offer of immunity came out, he thought that they wanted those photos....He did not know what they wanted was the photos that LH had been emailed by the special screwtineer showing Ron with the white powder standing over a Mac that was not to be driven by Hamster while LH was holding a funnel into the opening of the gas tank..... :arrows: :rotflmao: :beer:

[wmcot]

I understand through an anonymous source that an observer has found that LH uses a bit more pressure on his accelerator pedal. He has been asked to stop this practice immediately! :)

[ArrowsFA1]

Who says that the FIA wouldn't do the same with other teams too if drivers would complain about favoritism towards their team mate while fighting for the title?
For now we only have Alonso, so I fail to see what should FIA check in other teams if there is no complaint?!
ioan, you are moving towards the crux of the problem with the FIA's decision :up: It is an open invitation for anyone, not just a driver, to cry "favouritism" for whatever reason. When they do I would expect the FIA to place an observer in their garage...that is if I believed for a moment that the FIA were applying the rules in this matter (remind me, which 'rule' is being applied here?) in an even-handed and fair manner.

[ioan]

ioan, you are moving towards the crux of the problem with the FIA's decision :up: It is an open invitation for anyone, not just a driver, to cry "favouritism" for whatever reason. When they do I would expect the FIA to place an observer in their garage...that is if I believed for a moment that the FIA were applying the rules in this matter (remind me, which 'rule' is being applied here?) in an even-handed and fair manner.

I already explained this, but I'll do it again.
The FIA observer will be there for the good of the sport and for the good of the championship winner.

This observer will watch the race from the McLaren garage, will be often shown to us on TV and that's all.
In case that LH won the championship there was a chance that FA will publicly complain, again, about the team favoring LH.

Here's where the FIA will step in and will tell him to shut it because there was a FIA observer who didn't see any kind of favoring towards Hamilton.
Case closed and Hamilton will be seen as a "worthier" WDC than if FA would have had his chance expressing his opinion.

Why do you all believe that McLaren agreed to this if it's against them it's still impossible to understand.

It's the only way to ensure that Alonso won't make a complete mockery of this season if he marginally loses the title to Hamilton.

The only other way to stop this would have been to DQ both FA and LH from this year's championship when they disqualified the team for cheating, but Bernie wouldn't have been happy about that, so here we are.

[janneppi]

And we can trust the the observers impartiality how much?
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/motorsport/story/0,,2192601,00.html

"It is perfectly normal for a British team and British fans wanting to succeed in formula one but it is ironic that the racists in England are having to rely on a coloured pilot," said Carlos Gracia .And this is the guy who will be deciding if the treatment for a Brit driver and Spanish driver is equal?

Perhaps the Spaniards here can shed some light into the alledged original newspaper story?

[ArrowsFA1]

Why do you all believe that McLaren agreed to this if it's against them it's still impossible to understand.
I can just imagine your reaction had they not "agreed" to this!! Anyway, the Spanish Federation's President was invited to attend by Ron Dennis, so McLaren's agreement, or otherwise, is irrelevant. The point is why the FIA are getting involved.

And we can trust the the observers impartiality how much?
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/motorsport/story/0,,2192601,00.html
And this is the guy who will be deciding if the treatment for a Brit driver and Spanish driver is equal?
He has since clarified his comments:

Gracia distanced himself from controversial comments about Hamilton in an interview published in Spanish daily El Publico on Tuesday.
Questioned about the support the McLaren driver enjoyed in England and the desire of the media to see an English world champion, Gracia was quoted as saying:
"It's understandable that they want to make the most of it. But given how racist they are in England, the fact that they have to rely on a coloured driver...They tried it with (Jenson) Button and he let them down."
But Gracia told Reuters: "I'm very surprised by what was published and lament the interpretation which has been put on the words. They were taken out of context and wrongly interpreted."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63364

In that same Autosport story Carlos Gracia further reinforces how completely uneccessary and unwarranted the FIA's involvement in this is:

"I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment," Spanish Motorsport Federation president Carlos Gracia told Reuters in a telephone interview.
"McLaren have demonstrated their professionalism over many years and so has Ron Dennis.
"I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."
Gracia will also be attending the race at the invitation of Dennis.
"The only reason for my presence at Interlagos is because Ron Dennis had the courtesy to invite me," said Gracia. "He showed his complete professionalism by offering Pedro Martinez de la Rosa as a translator so if I had any questions or doubts they could be resolved."

[Mintexmemory]

Disgust at Spanish racist comments - Let's examine UK and Spanish attitudes.

Think we can expect Aragones' (spanish soccer manager) comments about Thierry Henry to get an airing
Just for the record, I'm white and 53 years old. As an Arsenal fan I revel in the fact that every ethnicity in London is represented in our fanbase.
African, Afro-Caribbean, Asian (sub-con and SE), Jews and Arabs and so on.
I don't think the Spanish can tell us anything about tolerance and understanding - How many non-latins represent Spain in any field of endeavour?
At last the truth outs. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Why are the FIA getting involved? What kind of question is that?!
Who should get involved instead of the FIA? Elvis?!

[ioan]

Disgust at Spanish racist comments - Let's examine UK and Spanish attitudes.

Think we can expect Aragones' (spanish soccer manager) comments about Thierry Henry to get an airing
Just for the record, I'm white and 53 years old. As an Arsenal fan I revel in the fact that every ethnicity in London is represented in our fanbase.
African, Afro-Caribbean, Asian (sub-con and SE), Jews and Arabs and so on.
I don't think the Spanish can tell us anything about tolerance and understanding - How many non-latins represent Spain in any field of endeavour?
At last the truth outs. :rolleyes:

Let' not go down that road. There are racists everywhere, no country is excepted.

[Mintexmemory]

Deplores and distances Spain from Gracia comments.

Doesn't explain the treatment of Samuel Eto'o at Zaragoza last season or the monkey noises made in the Bernabeu stadium when England played there last.

Racism NO - Healthy British xenophobia YES :D (After all it seems we aren't liked by the rest of the world so why bother)

[Mintexmemory]

Let' not go down that road. There are racists everywhere, no country is excepted.

The genie is out of the bottle. Many of us have wondered how such a good driver as LH could inspire such anger. Not everyone that dislikes Lewis is racist but the issue is out in the open (and therefore necessary to debate) because of the Gracia comments

[ioan]

The genie is out of the bottle. Many of us have wondered how such a good driver as LH could inspire such anger. Not everyone that dislikes Lewis is racist but the issue is out in the open (and therefore necessary to debate) because of the Gracia comments

It might be, but he since than commented on that.
Plus you were just comparing 2 countries population from the POV of their racist inclinations, and that's completely wrong.
That's all.

[markabilly]

I already explained this, but I'll do it again.
The FIA observer will be there for the good of the sport and for the good of the championship winner.

This observer will watch the race from the McLaren garage, will be often shown to us on TV and that's all.
In case that LH won the championship there was a chance that FA will publicly complain, again, about the team favoring LH.

Here's where the FIA will step in and will tell him to shut it because there was a FIA observer who didn't see any kind of favoring towards Hamilton.
Case closed and Hamilton will be seen as a "worthier" WDC than if FA would have had his chance expressing his opinion.

Why do you all believe that McLaren agreed to this if it's against them it's still impossible to understand.

It's the only way to ensure that Alonso won't make a complete mockery of this season if he marginally loses the title to Hamilton.

The only other way to stop this would have been to DQ both FA and LH from this year's championship when they disqualified the team for cheating, but Bernie wouldn't have been happy about that, so here we are.



I agree that you have an excellent point...indeed you are to be congratulated as it appears you are thinking ...like..or reading.....well better not say it.... :uhoh:

Indeed, because of the actual worthless nature from a technical point of view, you have it down and everyone should see that clearly this is done solely to make it look fair, no matter how unfair or playing favorites may occur behind the scenes.... ....

Funny how everyone else is still debating about whether it is justified for some substantive reason having to do with actually "keeping it clean" and real, actual necessity, even arguing now it is all about racism.... when it was done it was never about that....they are just drinking maxie/benie (and even RD's) kool aid and paying full admission....with some still thinking the second hearing was the result of some technical merit of Mac being caught cheating and others claiming that it is because max loves Red or hates RD..... :monkeedan

No it is all about the shoooowww

[ArrowsFA1]

Why are the FIA getting involved? What kind of question is that?!
A perfectly reasonable one particularly given that Gracia has said: "I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment...I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."

The FIA's pretence for getting involved has no foundation.

[markabilly]

A perfectly reasonable one particularly given that Gracia has said: "I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment...I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."

The FIA's pretence for getting involved has no foundation.


"The FIA's pretence for getting involved has no foundation."

It never did and Maxie knows that .....but the word "pretense" is very correct :D

[ioan]

A perfectly reasonable one particularly given that Gracia has said: "I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment...I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."

The FIA's pretence for getting involved has no foundation.

Is this the same Gracia that approached the FIA about his concerns not so long ago?


I showed my concern over the situation that Fernando is going through, which is no secret, and he reassured me.
The FIA are going to have an official who is going to watch very closely that nothing bad happens to Fernando, above all in qualifying, which is where there have been most complaints or strange situations in recent races.


http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33149

Maybe now is clearer why the FIA did what they did!
Because M. Gracia did ask them to do it.
And the fact that now he is saying that he thrusts McLaren is just because of the uproar that has been caused in Britain by a certain Jackie Stewart.

Can we stop now accusing the FIA because they are trying to give a bit of worth to an eventual Hamilton WDC title instead of letting all hell lose when that happens and Alonso throws the toys out of the pram? :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

..... they (FIA) are trying to give a bit of worth to an eventual Hamilton WDC title instead of letting all hell lose when that happens and Alonso throws the toys out of the pram? :rolleyes:


Seems a little late and a 100 million short for that...sort of like a doctor trying to fixa broken finger on a patient whose head was chopped off months ago....and Alonso is gonna toss, no matter what, even with the WDC crown in his bag.......

[BDunnell]

Can we stop now accusing the FIA because they are trying to give a bit of worth to an eventual Hamilton WDC title instead of letting all hell lose when that happens and Alonso throws the toys out of the pram? :rolleyes:

Many non-partisan observers of F1 over the years would quite rightly point out that his title doesn't need to have 'worth' added to it.

[BDunnell]

The genie is out of the bottle. Many of us have wondered how such a good driver as LH could inspire such anger. Not everyone that dislikes Lewis is racist but the issue is out in the open (and therefore necessary to debate) because of the Gracia comments

I agree with your assessment.

Also, I'd add that when Gracia refers to his words being taken out of context, he doesn't say that he didn't utter them, nor explain what the context in which they should be taken is.

[veeten]

I already explained this, but I'll do it again.

The only other way to stop this would have been to DQ both FA and LH from this year's championship when they disqualified the team for cheating, but Bernie wouldn't have been happy about that, so here we are.

ioan's comments all seem to revolve around this, and the fact that he's still grousing over the fact that the FIA didn't give Ferrari all the hardware (WDC & WCC) for this season. They were ajudicated for having the info, not for using it.

get over it, dude...

as for the Spanish Inquisition... er, Federation, it seems that they are more akin to not equal treatment as would be with a mid-pack team, but more the way it was for Schumacher at Ferrari or Alonso's time with Renault. Seems that they, along with Alonso, were looking for a wingman out of Hamilton and not a competitor.

So one does have to wonder, if both drivers are treated 'equally', and Hamilton still outperforms Alonso on the track this weekend, what will they say then? Will they honor the results or continue to make complaints of inequalty, driven mostly by not supporting Alonso to their satisfaction (read not giving him the WDC regardless of the results).

Aquiescing to having FIA officials in their paddock this weekend is more to 'okay we'll do this, now let's get on with the work of winning a race' than any percieved instance of guilt, although some will never be convinced of that no matter what level of information to the contrary is released.

[BDunnell]

So one does have to wonder, if both drivers are treated 'equally', and Hamilton still outperforms Alonso on the track this weekend, what will they say then? Will they honor the results or continue to make complaints of inequalty, driven mostly by not supporting Alonso to their satisfaction (read not giving him the WDC regardless of the results).

Which, as his reported request to Ron Dennis some way into the season to slow Hamilton down and preferably drop him at the end of the season, is clearly the case as far as Alonso is concerned. To me, this cancels out any sympathy I may have had for his position.


Aquiescing to having FIA officials in their paddock this weekend is more to 'okay we'll do this, now let's get on with the work of winning a race' than any percieved instance of guilt, although some will never be convinced of that no matter what level of information to the contrary is released.

:up:

It has certainly given a boost to the conspiracy theories. Thankfully, when one reads the serious motorsport publications in any country, they ignore such things.

[ioan]

ioan's comments all seem to revolve around this, and the fact that he's still grousing over the fact that the FIA didn't give Ferrari all the hardware (WDC & WCC) for this season. They were ajudicated for having the info, not for using it.

get over it, dude...

Get over it?

You can't get over the fact that there will be a FIA official in the McLaren garage in a mere try to restore the teams damaged image and you dare ask me to get over the biggest spying incident in F1 ever?! :laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh:

[ioan]

It has certainly given a boost to the conspiracy theories. Thankfully, when one reads the serious motorsport publications in any country, they ignore such things.

Any country means England, Scotland and Ireland?!
Or there are no motorsport publications in other countries? :s

[markabilly]

:up:

It has certainly given a boost to the conspiracy theories. Thankfully, when one reads the serious motorsport publications in any country, they ignore such things.
Which ones, you mean like autosporthttp://www.autosport.com/subs/ ... al&id=1297 (autosporthttp://www.autosport.com/subs/login.php?r=http://www.autosport.com/journal/article.php/id/1297&type=journal&id=1297)


or stuuff about what Stewart thinks?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63335

or this

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3399_2794723,00.html

or this

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19773.html

or this
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19769.html

or this "These things happen in racing but it is worrying that the affair is now being investigated again by the stewards" about the wet weather safety car episode
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19769.html
:confused:

[THE_LIBERATOR]

As I posted on the other thread:"Can you imagine the FIA going to Ferrari, while Michael Schumacher was at the helm, and insisting that his No.2 Rubens Barrichello or Eddie Irvine, was accorded the same privileges and that both men had to race on an equal footing?"
:up:

[BDunnell]

Any country means England, Scotland and Ireland?!
Or there are no motorsport publications in other countries? :s

I don't understand what you mean by that. Sorry.

[ioan]

I don't understand what you mean by that. Sorry.

I thought so. :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

I thought so. :rolleyes:

No, I genuinely don't know what you're getting at.

[ioan]

Well it didn't look like serious publications in Italy or Spain agree with serious publications from England over what went around in F1 this season.

So which countries were you referring to?

[BDunnell]

Well it didn't look like serious publications in Italy or Spain agree with serious publications from England over what went around in F1 this season.

So which countries were you referring to?

Germany, France and the Netherlands to name but three.

With regard to UK magazines, do you believe that the likes of Alan Henry and Nigel Roebuck are biased commentators because they have not come up with conspiracy theories, have praised Hamilton's performances and stated that they believe Ron Dennis to be an honourable man?

[ioan]

Germany, France and the Netherlands to name but three.

With regard to UK magazines, do you believe that the likes of Alan Henry and Nigel Roebuck are biased commentators because they have not come up with conspiracy theories, have praised Hamilton's performances and stated that they believe Ron Dennis to be an honourable man?

The whole UK based news papers were so biased towards Hamilton this season that it's impossible not to see it.

So back to my question aren't Spain and Italy countries with serious opinions too?

[veeten]

The whole UK based news papers were so biased towards Hamilton this season that it's impossible not to see it.

So back to my question aren't Spain and Italy countries with serious opinions too?

... like Gazzetta dello Sport? or maybe FOX news... remember, fair and balanced. ;) :p :

or maybe that's 'fairly unbalanced'. :crazy: :laugh:

[ioan]

... like Gazzetta dello Sport? or maybe FOX news... remember, fair and balanced. ;) :p :

or maybe that's 'fairly unbalanced'. :crazy: :laugh:

I never claimed that they were balanced! :laugh:

[BDunnell]

The whole UK based news papers were so biased towards Hamilton this season that it's impossible not to see it.

The tabloid newspapers were, but the good F1 journalists were fair and balanced, yet still impressed. I think they were quite right.



So back to my question aren't Spain and Italy countries with serious opinions too?

I didn't say, or even suggest, they aren't.

[markabilly]

Geeeass

two plkus pages over dumb journalists!!

this thread is getting to be as trivial and BORING as it gets

[Tazio]

Every civlized country with real freedom of the press are over run with tabloid mania.
Britain led the charge. But are not necesarily the most TabloiDelicious*



*That's a technical term

[wmcot]

OK, here's a different conspiracy theory for you...suppose Gracia wanted to get to the season finale at Brazil and decided that if he made a vocal complaint about fairness, he might get invited by RD with absolute VIP treatment including watching the race from the pits. Perhaps Senor Gracia is craftier than you think! :)

[tinchote]

OK, here's a different conspiracy theory for you...suppose Gracia wanted to get to the season finale at Brazil and decided that if he made a vocal complaint about fairness, he might get invited by RD with absolute VIP treatment including watching the race from the pits. Perhaps Senor Gracia is craftier than you think! :)

Nice one ;)

[SGWilko]

OK, here's a different conspiracy theory for you...suppose Gracia wanted to get to the season finale at Brazil and decided that if he made a vocal complaint about fairness, he might get invited by RD with absolute VIP treatment including watching the race from the pits. Perhaps Senor Gracia is craftier than you think! :)

Indeed, but then the topey dwat has since inserted his foot well and truly in his cake hole, and shown the world that he is also a racist pig.

Still, true to form I hear the FIA are investigating. :p :

Oh, sorry no link, but it was in the London Metro this morning, if you scour the bins in the city you might just find a copy :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

OK, here's a different conspiracy theory for you...suppose Gracia wanted to get to the season finale at Brazil and decided that if he made a vocal complaint about fairness, he might get invited by RD with absolute VIP treatment including watching the race from the pits. Perhaps Senor Gracia is craftier than you think! :)


certainly luckier than me--I am stuck with a mere backmarker, not a frontrunner....

Yesterday, I called Maxie about the unfair and unequal treatment given by the management of Red Cow to Scott not Speed, and demanded the same: That in light of the unequal treatment given to Scott as demonstrated by the brutual attack on his body as well as getting fired, mean nasty treatment that did NOT happen to his teamate, I must be appointed the invited guest of the team to act as special screwtineer to be sure Scottie gets full and equal treatment at Brazil GP...... :p :

[SGWilko]

certainly luckier than me--I am stuck with a mere backmarker, not a frontrunner....

Yesterday, I called Maxie about the unfair and unequal treatment given by the management of Red Cow to Scott not Speed, and demanded the same: That in light of the unequal treatment given to Scott as demonstrated by the brutual attack on his body as well as getting fired, mean nasty treatment that did NOT happen to his teamate, I must be appointed the invited guest of the team to act as special screwtineer to be sure Scottie gets full and equal treatment at Brazil GP...... :p :

Whilst your post is a little TIC, it does highlight the FIA poking its nose where it need not be poked issue surrounding the scrutineer............

[ioan]

Indeed, but then the topey dwat has since inserted his foot well and truly in his cake hole, and shown the world that he is also a racist pig.

:rolleyes:

Indeed, but then the topey dwat has since inserted his foot well and truly in his cake hole, and shown the world that he is also a racist pig.

Yes, it can be distressing when somebody uses a sweeping and incorrect generalization when describing the people of a nation.

[janneppi]

Isn't it nice when people can leave forgive and forget, leave the little personal issues behind for the sake of good athmosphere without the need to take veiled little shots at other forumers. :rolleyes: .

I was merely pointing out how distressing it must be for English race fans to be sterotyped in a negative way.

Would you not agree with that sentiment?

[janneppi]

Of course i agree, but would you think I was referring to you?

Of course i agree, but would you think I was referring to you?

Because all you Finns jump to conclusions.







*The above statement bears no resemblance to any Finns living or deceased. It is a work of fiction.

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: Now.. back to the Thread !!!

:rolleyes: After all this BruHaaHaa about putting an official in the McLaren Pits to insure fair play...

"Alonso sees no need for an FIA observer" !!!

Article's @ http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63390

:s mokin:

[SGWilko]

Yes, it can be distressing when somebody uses a sweeping and incorrect generalization when describing the people of a nation.

I think he used the term racist to describe British people, referring then to Hamiltons skin colour. You are intelligent enough to understand the difference I hope?

Or was the apology for your misinterpretation not accepted by you after all?

[SGWilko]

I thought so.

Are you getting personal again Ioan, because you are the first cry foul when people word their posts like yours just was.... :rolleyes:

[SGWilko]

Because all you Finns jump to conclusions.







*The above statement bears no resemblance to any Finns living or deceased. It is a work of fiction.

:gland:

[SGWilko]

Isn't it nice when people can leave forgive and forget, leave the little personal issues behind for the sake of good athmosphere without the need to take veiled little shots at other forumers. :rolleyes: .

For me, personally, I am not prepared to let a personal dig go unaddressed. I am sorry you are fighting a losing battle.

[janneppi]

Let's return to normal service ok.
Sorry to drag the thread away from topic.

[truefan72]

can't stay long down here in Brazil,
but wanted to add this to the conversation.
Thqat Garcia guy's true intentions and attitude have/has become evident

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/18102007/58/brazilian-gp-spanish-motorsport-chief-trouble.html

and I bet he's still using the old line of "being misquoted"

[truefan72]

even his backpeddling shows he has no graps off his stupid comments and offers no apoligy as he cannot see how racist they were. Maybe he just thinks those attitudes are the norm
http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read/108698

[markabilly]

even his backpeddling shows he has no graps off his stupid comments and offers no apoligy as he cannot see how racist they were. Maybe he just thinks those attitudes are the norm
http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read/108698

I think that he was trying to imply that people who do not like FA in England are racists....hence, ironic that these racists are relying on someone of a different color to beat someone else of a different color....now that appears to be what he was meaning

however, if so, that is pretty dumb, even in ole Markabilly's view of the world... :confused: (the alternative is worse than dumb)

I told you that just as i thought i had ridiculed these FIA and F1 people beyond belief, reality steps in and the FIA and its whole crew, take things way beyond my feeble efforts.....if I had said such things as about the FIA should or would appoint the scrutineer(s), and then these comments from him, might happen, everyone would have said further evidence of being looney-tunes, crazy, drinking my own Kool aid....... :crazy: :crazy:

besides if they can do this for FA, what about my hero Scottie who went public about the clearly criminal assualt on his person and the retaliation of his dismissal for doing so.... :( hahaha

A couple of final points:
First, such statements made by this guy about whatever he was trying to say, strike me as being an indication of someone who does NOT NEED to be doing what he will be doing this weekend, if for no other reason than lack of IQ.....duh...

Second, I love the part where the FIA says they will immediately investigate such words and not tolerate such (or whatever they said in the article), but then they remain silent about maxie's calling Stewart a half-wit, in an attack on his disability that was inteded to subtely attack the man rather than the statement...

no different ....just as distastful and and just as much to be condemned, but no investigation--of course--why should anyone expect anything different.....

[Valve Bounce]

Gracia is not out of the woods as the FIA are going to receive the original interview tapes from El Publico: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33212
He could be punished for bringing the sort into disrepute.

[markabilly]

Gracia is not out of the woods as the FIA are going to receive the original interview tapes from El Publico: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33212
He could be punished for bringing the sort into disrepute.


and they could set an even bigger example by doing the same to Max :eek:

Now imagine this: Screwtineer is yanked by FIA, but that happens on a Monday but on Sunday, he claims FA is fouled...


alternative scenario

Screwtineer is yanked by FIA in Friday or Saturday, things go wrong for FA.........obvious what really went on in his absence.....

well, see the fox was not there guarding the chickens, so you should have known.......and the wheels go round and round......

But not to worry, if Freddie beats LH, I will personally drink all my Kool aid that I have reserved for the rest of you true believers who will swallow anything

(cause I never touch the stuff--turns you into one of THEM who debate all that is emitted by the FIA as though it had some intrinsic merit as well as a fan for LH!!!........... :D

[Valve Bounce]

I suggest you stick to Red Bull - it gives you Wings. :p :

[leopard]

In the extremely urgent basis, If You Can Read This, You are Too Close !!!

[rohanweb]

I find it ironic that the FIA never had a fair play inspector in the Ferrari garage in all the years that Schumacher was there!


can some F1 team boss make a case againt the FIA for not acting properly on Ferrari team orders etc which made the viewers and all the interested parties of F1 like loonytoones !

so if thats the case then we shall see championships' will be taken away from Michael schumacher ??-??? & Ferrari is kicked out of F1!

where was the scruitineer thosedays>?
i am sure to see lots of untrue statements of cheating and favours if LH wins the WDC! from the losers..

[Tazio]

I find it ironic that the FIA never had a fair play inspector in the Ferrari garage in all the years that Schumacher was there!


can some F1 team boss make a case againt the FIA for not acting properly on Ferrari team orders etc which made the viewers and all the interested parties of F1 like loonytoones !

so if thats the case then we shall see championships' will be taken away from Michael schumacher ??-??? & Ferrari is kicked out of F1!

where was the scruitineer thosedays>?
i am sure to see lots of untrue statements of cheating and favours if LH wins the WDC! from the losers..
So much anger in a young man
Just.......Let it go
It's the moment
Don't live in constant reverie of the past.
Come on Rohan.
Your better than that!

[wmcot]

I find it ironic that the FIA never had a fair play inspector in the Ferrari garage in all the years that Schumacher was there!


can some F1 team boss make a case againt the FIA for not acting properly on Ferrari team orders etc which made the viewers and all the interested parties of F1 like loonytoones !

so if thats the case then we shall see championships' will be taken away from Michael schumacher ??-??? & Ferrari is kicked out of F1!

where was the scruitineer thosedays>?
i am sure to see lots of 'untrue statements of cheating and favours if LH wins the WDC! from the losers..

I guess from that logic, that ALL previous championships are null and void since no team had inspectors.

[ioan]

I find it ironic that the FIA never had a fair play inspector in the Ferrari garage in all the years that Schumacher was there!


can some F1 team boss make a case againt the FIA for not acting properly on Ferrari team orders etc which made the viewers and all the interested parties of F1 like loonytoones !

so if thats the case then we shall see championships' will be taken away from Michael schumacher ??-??? & Ferrari is kicked out of F1!

where was the scruitineer thosedays>?
i am sure to see lots of untrue statements of cheating and favours if LH wins the WDC! from the losers..

What about the previous McLaren championship wins, and the Williams ones and so on?
Nah it can't be, it's only for the most hated team around here! :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

Now FA says the screwtinneer is unnecessary, no body asked him.,,,, Not only that, but everyone should be quite surprized to learn that FA and LH are the best of buddies, got to know each and all sorts of sweet stuff...

it was real :love: --between FA and LH at the Thursday press conference, real tear jerker stuff


but it may all be just like pro westling...where the best of buddies in private behind the scenes, in public act as the worst of enemies to stir up the masses and make them want to to pay big bucks to see the show....and those who really hate each other appear as the best of buddies for view of the public ......

or maybe the two children are just playing games with each other, trying to out-pysch ....

....sort of like FA saying "I don't want a special screwtineer,,,," "tire pressure, what tire pressure...." when deep inside he is really thinking "I just wish he was somebody with some real heavy duty expertise who was at least smart enough to know how to check tire pressures, and not some loud mouth political hack whose mouth is so big, he gets both feet and his butt stuck inside worrying over what racists in England think....when he is suppose to be worrying over my car....." (and that is probably what he really meant when he referred to him as unnecessary but really meaning a waste or useless)

and the wheels go round and round..... :rolleyes:

[I am evil Homer]

Or maybe they've got on okay - not best buddies but chat to each other - and the media have blown it all out of proportion! "he said, she said" it's all very tedious.

[Tazio]

Now FA says the screwtinneer is unnecessary, no body asked him.,,,, Not only that, but everyone should be quite surprized to learn that FA and LH are the best of buddies, got to know each and all sorts of sweet stuff...

it was real :love: --between FA and LH at the Thursday press conference, real tear jerker stuff


but it may all be just like pro westling...where the best of buddies in private behind the scenes, in public act as the worst of enemies to stir up the masses and make them want to to pay big bucks to see the show....and those who really hate each other appear as the best of buddies for view of the public ......

or maybe the two children are just playing games with each other, trying to out-pysch ....

....sort of like FA saying "I don't want a special screwtineer,,,," "tire pressure, what tire pressure...." when deep inside he is really thinking "I just wish he was somebody with some real heavy duty expertise who was at least smart enough to know how to check tire pressures, and not some loud mouth political hack whose mouth is so big, he gets both feet and his butt stuck inside worrying over what racists in England think....when he is suppose to be worrying over my car....." (and that is probably what he really meant when he referred to him as unnecessary but really meaning a waste or useless)

and the wheels go round and round..... :rolleyes:
Check the fuzz on this!
FEDERICO never requested one!

[Dave B]

Or maybe they've got on okay - not best buddies but chat to each other - and the media have blown it all out of proportion! "he said, she said" it's all very tedious.
I suspect that's nearer the truth than most of the comments on here. Two men who have risen to the top of their chosen sport, and who both desperately want to win, can't be expected to be bestest friends forever. :)

[Tazio]

I suspect that's nearer the truth than most of the comments on here. Two men who have risen to the top of their chosen sport, and who both desperately want to win, can't be expected to be bestest friends forever. :)
Spot on
The truth is not popular, or relevant with chat types
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story

[markabilly]

...........
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story


That used to be my motto until recently, when the FIA and the whole crew came along and suddenly the truth became the better (or weirder)story....... :D

[Tazio]

" "The truth",,,.."You can't handle the truth" "

[markabilly]

" "The truth",,,.."You can't handle the truth" "


And you were saying.....http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63425


Hamilton already under investigation.........



.. :crazy: :roll: :arrows: :crazy: :beer:

[jens]

Thta FIA official has had too much effect. As a result now McLaren is favouring Alonso. :eek: :p : Hamilton uses too many wet tyres and Alonso doesn't...

To make it equal, what is the purpose of FIA checking, then Alonso must break a rule during FP2! :p :

[Tazio]

And you were saying.....http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63425


Hamilton already under investigation.........



.. :crazy: :roll: :arrows: :crazy: :beer:

It figures two out of the three being investigated are Brits.
Where is your sense of fair play??????? Kidding

[Easy Drifter]

No steward in garage today has been reported elsewhere. Does the right hand even know where the left hand is much less what it is doing.

[truefan72]

I suspect that's nearer the truth than most of the comments on here. Two men who have risen to the top of their chosen sport, and who both desperately want to win, can't be expected to be bestest friends forever. :)


Spot on
The truth is not popular, or relevant with chat types
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story

I think as they both face their respective destiny's of each having an opportunity to write history, they may have come to understand that they are both great drivers and that such vitriol between them really helps no one.
I won't be surprised if FA reached out to LH in some way

Either he is keepeing his McClaren options firmly in place, realizing that all things being equal, driving the Mac's are his best bet to win races and more championships, and that while they might not be best buds, at least there will be a respect for each side of the paddock.

Or, it is his final race at McClarena and there really is no point, rigfht now to get even more heat on him than need be, perphas the Spanish FIA scrutineer represented the culmination of his incesant whining and he realizes that the whole saga has gotten way out of control.
For his own legacy, an attitude change is what is needed and what looks like he's trying to do. Let's hope there is true sincerity behind his words now.

...until sunday after the race ;)

[Tazio]

I think as they both face their respective destiny's of each having an opportunity to write history, they may have come to understand that they are both great drivers and that such vitriol between them really helps no one.
I won't be surprised if FA reached out to LH in some way

Either he is keepeing his McClaren options firmly in place, realizing that all things being equal, driving the Mac's are his best bet to win races and more championships, and that while they might not be best buds, at least there will be a respect for each side of the paddock.

Or, it is his final race at McClarena and there really is no point, rigfht now to get even more heat on him than need be, perphas the Spanish FIA scrutineer represented the culmination of his incesant whining and he realizes that the whole saga has gotten way out of control.
For his own legacy, an attitude change is what is needed and what looks like he's trying to do. Let's hope there is true sincerity behind his words now.

...until sunday after the race ;) I agree!

[BDunnell]

I think as they both face their respective destiny's of each having an opportunity to write history, they may have come to understand that they are both great drivers and that such vitriol between them really helps no one.
I won't be surprised if FA reached out to LH in some way

Either he is keepeing his McClaren options firmly in place, realizing that all things being equal, driving the Mac's are his best bet to win races and more championships, and that while they might not be best buds, at least there will be a respect for each side of the paddock.

Or, it is his final race at McClarena and there really is no point, rigfht now to get even more heat on him than need be, perphas the Spanish FIA scrutineer represented the culmination of his incesant whining and he realizes that the whole saga has gotten way out of control.
For his own legacy, an attitude change is what is needed and what looks like he's trying to do. Let's hope there is true sincerity behind his words now.

...until sunday after the race ;)

:up:

[markabilly]

No steward in garage today has been reported elsewhere. Does the right hand even know where the left hand is much less what it is doing.

It is now being reported that the FIA forgot to send him an email telling him the race was this weekend and not next weekend......

[ioan]

So there is actually no scrutineer for the race. He was invited by RD just for Saturday! :rolleyes:



"The guys from the FIA and Spain were invited guests," said Dennis. "They had the benefit of Pedro [de la Rosa] explaining everything and answering all the questions - giving a clear understanding of just how the data is available to all engineers on a constant basis. You can see everything.

"The different scrutineer? We were very comfortable to give him a headset to hear what the drivers were saying and, if any questions were asked, we could give him answers. That was just about today.

"We're not going to have these guys involved in tomorrow's race. That's where we really do have to do what we think is the right strategy to beat our competition - which is Ferrari. That is our competition."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63510

So the scrutineer is not allowed in the McLaren garage when they "really do have to do what we think is the right strategy".
This is why the Brits lost so many sleepless nights? :p :

Pathetic.

[markabilly]

So there is actually no scrutineer for the race. He was invited by RD just for Saturday! :rolleyes:


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63510

So the scrutineer is not allowed in the McLaren garage when they "really do have to do what we think is the right strategy".
This is why the Brits lost so many sleepless nights? :p :

Pathetic.

But not to worry!!!

LH's special scrutineer will be carefully watching from the garage pits as he has all year long.....you know the one whose face you miss so much...Popa Hamaster :D