Eu constitution / treaty

[Flat.tyres]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7034052.stm

Why are we being railroaded into this partnership?

When a think tank that is predominantly Labour examines the new constitution and conceeds that it is much the same as the treaty, I feel as if we are getting rammed by the Government.

Now, I don't know enough about the pro's and con's of the treaty to make an informed decision yet but I am sufficiently concerned that there is not enough discussion on how it will affect the British people.

Surely, we were promised a referrendum if this Treaty was proposed and renaming it does not change the fact we are being denied the opportunity to make our own minds up. Perhaps Gordon thinks we aren't capable of making such a decision which is why he hasn't called an early election.

News for you Gordon. Make this Treaty the cornerstone of your policy and give the people the vote otherwise you will be committing suicide for the Labour party.

The UK people need to know exactly what this document proposes and what the benefits or otherwise are.

[Mark]

The UK people need to know exactly what this document proposes and what the benefits or otherwise are.

They won't be told. The only people who know are those who do some research to find out. Everyone else will get a lot of hysterical spin and little else.

[BTCC Fan#1]

Flat.tyres, the BBC has done a good overview of what the treaty proposes, minus all the 'EU-speak': http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6928737.stm

It doesn't look much like the Constitutional treaty to me, and to hold a full-blown referendum on this would be, in my opinion, a bit of a farce. I think there is some argument for having a treaty on EU membership however, i'd campaign actively as pro-EU. I think the people of this country would, when presented with all the facts rather than the mindless tabloid hand-wringing about bendy bananas, vote to stay in.

[BDunnell]

Flat.tyres, the BBC has done a good overview of what the treaty proposes, minus all the 'EU-speak': http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6928737.stm

It doesn't look much like the Constitutional treaty to me, and to hold a full-blown referendum on this would be, in my opinion, a bit of a farce. I think there is some argument for having a treaty on EU membership however, i'd campaign actively as pro-EU. I think the people of this country would, when presented with all the facts rather than the mindless tabloid hand-wringing about bendy bananas, vote to stay in.

I'm with you on all of that, although I have serious concerns about the levels of democracy in the EU and the way it has developed without gaining legitimacy amongst those it represents. By that I mean the 'organic' development of that legitimacy, rather than just through referenda.

The trouble is that it would be impossible to have a really proper debate on it because certain newspapers would not portray the facts in an impartial manner. Many people would then take on what they read as 'fact', because this happens on almost every major or prominent issue nowadays. It's the 'tabloidisation' of Britain.

[Daniel]

I'm with you on all of that, although I have serious concerns about the levels of democracy in the EU and the way it has developed without gaining legitimacy amongst those it represents. By that I mean the 'organic' development of that legitimacy, rather than just through referenda.

The trouble is that it would be impossible to have a really proper debate on it because certain newspapers would not portray the facts in an impartial manner. Many people would then take on what they read as 'fact', because this happens on almost every major or prominent issue nowadays. It's the 'tabloidisation' of Britain.
My number 1 gripe with the UK is tabloidisation. I was lucky enought to live in a city that had a small enough population to mean that only one daily rag could survive and therefore they had to cater for most people rather than being uber-sensationalist as the Sun's, Daily Moan's and so on. The problem also is that to keep the ratings up the BBC have had to buy into this and there is a certain amount of tabloidisation now present in the BBC. As for the original topic I can't say it means much to me as I don't consider myself as English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish so it matters a lot less to me as it's nothing to do with my identity.

[BDunnell]

The problem also is that to keep the ratings up the BBC have had to buy into this and there is a certain amount of tabloidisation now present in the BBC.

'That's what Daniel thinks. But what do you think? If you know nothing about this issue but have an opinion on it nonetheless, text us on 84747.'

[Daniel]

'That's what Daniel thinks. But what do you think? If you know nothing about this issue but have an opinion on it nonetheless, text us on 84747.'
Oh god I swear I hate Jeremy Vine. Don't do this to me!!!! :mark: