McLaren crew spilt the beans for Hamilton.. terrible *Merged*

[rohanweb]

Lewis is out of shangai gp.

why the heck Mclaren boys left it too long to bring in Lewis.
certainly his tyres were looking really bad for number of laps, and he was losing something like 3 seconds per lap at times..

I want to rip Lewis's race engineer's trousers and beat his back until he dies.

this is just toomuch of a mistake by mclaren costs lewis's race! now Alonso and the co are laughing at Lewis needs someone to push his car back on to the track..

well.. all going go down to the wire in brazil... I sense Lewis might just wobble and lose again.. i hope not.

I remember Kimi's race when they left him to take a gamble then his tyres failed... today mclaren also proved to be greedy.

real shame ;-(

[F1boat]

After Alonso's retirement and the Stewards support yesterday, justice is sweet :)

But calm down, Lewis will win in Brazil. The championship, I mean, I think that Massa will win the race.

[Langdale Forest]

The tyres should have been changed earlier.

[ioan]

Lewis is out of shangai gp.

why the heck Mclaren boys left it too long to bring in Lewis.
certainly his tyres were looking really bad for number of laps, and he was losing something like 3 seconds per lap at times..

I want to rip Lewis's race engineer's trousers and beat his back until he dies.

this is just toomuch of a mistake by mclaren costs lewis's race! now Alonso and the co are laughing at Lewis needs someone to push his car back on to the track..

well.. all going go down to the wire in brazil... I sense Lewis might just wobble and lose again.. i hope not.

I remember Kimi's race when they left him to take a gamble then his tyres failed... today mclaren also proved to be greedy.

real shame ;-(

:rolleyes:

[F1boat]

Lewis was classy after retirement, though. Although I don't like him, he has te marks of a great champion.

[rohanweb]

Lewis was classy after retirement, though. Although I don't like him, he has te marks of a great champion.


you are right.. Lewis should have gone on and won in style..
its the greediness of Mclaren bosses left him to deal with badley deflamated tyres.. which we could see clearly on tv, and hsi race engineer was an complete idiot to see Lewis to deal with it, else if there were communication failure?

[rohanweb]

After Alonso's retirement and the Stewards support yesterday, justice is sweet :)

But calm down, Lewis will win in Brazil. The championship, I mean, I think that Massa will win the race.


its nothing to do with justice mate.it was a silly mistake by the mclaren crew sitting bourne-idle while Lewis work hard on the track.. !

well... regards to the WDC.. its still possible , but the chances are getting a bit low in terms of if for some reason Lewis wont have any more races left to say I will be back , if he wobble again in Brazil ;-)

anyhow Kimi proving to be driving really well today, I am very happy for him.

[yodasarmpit]

Why did he battle with Kimi when due to pit, why didn't they bring Hamilton in one or two laps earlier and why a gravel trap in the pit lane?

At least it's been quite an entertaining race, and Kimi's looking good for the win.

[Simmo666]

Like with Raikkonen and his flat spot a couple of years ago, it wouldn't have been an issue if Hamilton had managed to take as good care of his tyres as Alonso and Raikkonen did. It may have been possible, then as now, for McLaren to have brought him in to chance, but doing so might have meant he needed another stop later in the race. Race strategy always involves risk. That risk will have paid off for him earlier in the season, it has just caught him out this time.

Or, if Lewis hadn't overcooked it going into the pit lane corner, knowing his tyres were in bad shape, he would have stayed on the track and been able to continue. A mistake came just at the wrong time for him unfortunately.

[yodasarmpit]

Hamiltons driving style does tend to have an adverse effect on his rears, as could be seen here.

Ahh well, next race should be exciting, last race of the season and the championship decider.

[rohanweb]

Like with Raikkonen and his flat spot a couple of years ago, it wouldn't have been an issue if Hamilton had managed to take as good care of his tyres as Alonso and Raikkonen did. It may have been possible, then as now, for McLaren to have brought him in to chance, but doing so might have meant he needed another stop later in the race. Race strategy always involves risk. That risk will have paid off for him earlier in the season, it has just caught him out this time.

Or, if Lewis hadn't overcooked it going into the pit lane corner, knowing his tyres were in bad shape, he would have stayed on the track and been able to continue. A mistake came just at the wrong time for him unfortunately.

I agree with your post,
yes he should have been a bit steady coming in to the pits ...
and became a laughing stock for anti-hamilton fans of he needed a push off the gravel ;-)

anyway Lewis looking not so worried as we see others in the past who walk in to thier motor homes angrily.
its a good sign he seems cool.

bring it on in Brazil.
but there arent 'next race' chances for Lewis.. he has to get it done!!!

[tinchote]

You guys are making a big deal out of something that is not. He just overshoot the corner at pit entry and had the bad luck that there was a gravel trap there. Had he taken that corner a couple km/h slower, he would be the WDC now. Just a small mistake with big consequences, but no big deal, no conspiracy, no fate.

[Robinho]

was a monumental balls up, after Kimi passed they just need to play safe and make sure they got the big points, they could have easiy taken 2nd or 3rd, but hung on with tyres that lost 6-7secs a lap to Alonso.

fair enough it was a tricky call for which tyres to put on, but they had to do something, no change was much worse than the wrong tyres, if they'd had to make 2 stops they stil would have come 4th and as good as won the title, big team error, from a team that have the experience and should know much better, this was not the time to be gambling, not after getting in such a good position on track.

i cam see Lewis losing the title now, and they will have to say they blew their best chance today. if he does lose, i only hope its Kimi and not Alonso who is there to pick up the pieces

[ioan]

Exactly.

[Dave B]

A combination of shot tyres and coming into the pitlane, unsighted, carring a tad too much speed. Honestly I almost hope it was a conspiracy, it might silence those who believe McLaren favour him over Alonso!

It's still remarkable that his first DNF took 16 races to happen, and that even now he's still in contention for a championship.

[Robinho]

You guys are making a big deal out of something that is not. He just overshoot the corner at pit entry and had the bad luck that there was a gravel trap there. Had he taken that corner a couple km/h slower, he would be the WDC now. Just a small mistake with big consequences, but no big deal, no conspiracy, no fate.

true, but stopping 2-5 laps earlier and it wouldn't have been an issue, he clearly had no grip, losiong so much time, you could see the canvas through the rear tyres, it was the time to play safe.

ulitmately if he'd crawled into the pits he'd have been fine, so repsonsibility lies with him for making the mistake, but it shouldn't have been a mistake that was possible to make, it would have been fine had they come in earlier. dry tyres on and fueled to the finish

[Mark]

It was obvious for about 4 laps that he needed to pit. These guys are the best in the world?!

[Tazio]

Hamilton was just careless at the pit entry
A rookie mistake
Kimi smoked him

[truefan72]

You guys are making a big deal out of something that is not. He just overshoot the corner at pit entry and had the bad luck that there was a gravel trap there. Had he taken that corner a couple km/h slower, he would be the WDC now. Just a small mistake with big consequences, but no big deal, no conspiracy, no fate.


agreed

but his tyres were in reall bad shape and the team knew it. It would not have made a difference if he came in 1 or 2 laps earlier. That being said he should have taken the corner with extreme caution. If he did that he would have been WDC today.

But at least he is still leading. If he can manage a solid race in brazil he should walk away with the title.

Kimmi has to win the race for any possibility of winnig
Alonso has to finish no lower than second for any possibility of winning.

So Hamilton has some wiggle room

If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.

great job Vettel and Liuzzi

It's a tough, tough pill to swallow right now and at 4am here, I'm pretty bummed.

[Dave B]

Martin Whitmarsh has just told ITV that it was a team error and, with hindsight, they'd have brought Hamilton in a lap earlier.

However, I still think Lewis was a tad optomistic with his pitlane entry speed.

Hey, if the marshals had pushed him out of the gravel you guys would have created uproar! :p

[F1boat]

its nothing to do with justice mate.it was a silly mistake by the mclaren crew sitting bourne-idle while Lewis work hard on the track.. !

well... regards to the WDC.. its still possible , but the chances are getting a bit low in terms of if for some reason Lewis wont have any more races left to say I will be back , if he wobble again in Brazil ;-)

anyhow Kimi proving to be driving really well today, I am very happy for him.

My point is that Ferrari had so many problems this season, and you see, Lewis had the FIA support here and there... it shows that F1 is a very competitive sport and nobody can really fix it. Nobody is safe. It is still very tough challenge. No matter who wins the championship in the end, it will be a richly deserved championship. I think that for the first time since 1986 we have three drivers fighting for the crown in the final round.

[ioan]

true, but stopping 2-5 laps earlier and it wouldn't have been an issue, he clearly had no grip, losiong so much time, you could see the canvas through the rear tyres, it was the time to play safe.

The weather changes kept the team on their toes, they were waiting to see what happens.
Interesting enough other divers were able to wait for a clear weather forecast without destroying their tires.

I also think he cracked under the pressure and made a mistake when entering the pits to fast.

[tinchote]

agreed

but his tyres were in reall bad shape and the team knew it. It would not have made a difference if he came in 1 or 2 laps earlier. That being said he should have taken the corner with extreme caution. If he did that he would have been WDC today.



It was obvious for about 4 laps that he needed to pit. These guys are the best in the world?!

I don't think it's that simple. In a damp track situation and with the eventuality of rain, you want to maximize your options, and that means to pit as late as possible. It's easy to say now that the stop was too late, and I agree. But had he avoided the gravel trap he would be WDC now.



If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.


I thought the same, but there are also factors that need to be considered. KR mentioned the graining period, and it's very possible that FM had the graining problem around the time that he found FA in front of him.

[F1boat]

The reality is that this is a very close season and both teams are very nervous. McLaren still have the upper hand, but they have already lost one championship and their drivers are hating each other. Ferrari made many mistakes an many people critisize them, that their level fell after 2004.
That's the reason. This championship proved to be very, very close and very, very nervous.
Add to this that the Brazil track always surprises teams and we have a thriller awaiting us in Interlagos.

[ioan]

If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.

Not losing the occasion to denigrate a driver you don't like, who started a thread to complain that people do attack Hamilton?! :rolleyes:

[Jefe Máximo]

:D

I loved every minute of it.

[rohanweb]

well.. at interlagos.. its all Lewis hamilton to lose!
FA and KR are just going to take extra risks to win the race, and FM going to find that extra tengths there as its his home gp.
all to play for!

Mclaren today shouldnt have taken such risk of running LH on ice.. he was clearly struggling and its insane allowing him to continue. now does the race engineer of LH going to get his ass kicked or not?
greediness took the toll of it.. no points finish for lewis.

like F1boat said.. its indeed going to be a thriller in fortnight ;)

[truefan72]

The reality is that this is a very close season and both teams are very nervous. McLaren still have the upper hand, but they have already lost one championship and their drivers are hating each other. Ferrari made many mistakes an many people critisize them, that their level fell after 2004.
That's the reason. This championship proved to be very, very close and very, very nervous.
Add to this that the Brazil track always surprises teams and we have a thriller awaiting us in Interlagos.

:up:
I am already clearing my schedule. I'm not missing this race at all.
I was hoping for a coronation today and felt good for a while.

in two weeks, I'll admit, I'll be nervous,
The only solace I can take is that LH didn't seem to feel the pressure while driving and was pulling away before the tyre fiasco and pit-in.

With two weeks to recharge and focus, I suspect that he will give his best. And I'm pretty sure that at this point with Alonso throwing the team under the bus, they too would be entirely behind him.

The drama!

[Dave B]

If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.

I disagree. Those fastest laps towards the end would have kept the pressure on Alonso and who knows, could have induced a mistake.

[Jag_Warrior]

My point is that Ferrari had so many problems this season, and you see, Lewis had the FIA support here and there... it shows that F1 is a very competitive sport and nobody can really fix it. Nobody is safe. It is still very tough challenge. No matter who wins the championship in the end, it will be a richly deserved championship. I think that for the first time since 1986 we have three drivers fighting for the crown in the final round.

Yes, whoever wins will have shown that he well deserves this one.

I just hope that I can enjoy Brazil from my own home, and not have to search a strange city for a hotel which has Speed Channel.

[truefan72]

Not losing the occasion to denigrate a driver you don't like, who started a thread to complain that people do attack Hamilton?! :rolleyes:



first of all. who said I don't like Massa

second, I am stating the obvoius,
did alonso not pull out 8 seconds over massa in a very short time?
did kimmi not need massa to overtake alonso?
when it mattered the most for his teamate and the team, he showed nothing.

please don't confuse observations with denigration
unless you think I've done a 180 and am denigrating Lewis Hamiton and Mcclaren with my comments.

give it a rest ion,

focus on the topic and stop with the stupid partisanship
can't you even take a ferrari win with some dignity?

[Simmo666]

If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.

Kimi's randomly done a fast lap at the end of the race this year too, so you can't really use the argument that it shows he's a #2 like that.

[truefan72]

I disagree. Those fastest laps towards the end would have kept the pressure on Alonso and who knows, could have induced a mistake.


you mean the pressure of cruising home 2nd and making sure he didn't blow his WDC chances. Massa didn't put any pressure on Alonso at all.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Martin Whitmarsh has just told ITV that it was a team error and, with hindsight, they'd have brought Hamilton in a lap earlier.

However, I still think Lewis was a tad optomistic with his pitlane entry speed.

Hey, if the marshals had pushed him out of the gravel you guys would have created uproar! :p

A sensible summary :up:

McLaren made a miscalculation in keeping Lewis out there for so long, but ultimately they would've gotten away with it, had Lewis taken a bit more care on entering the pitlane. As both McLaren and Hamilton have each accepted their share of blame for the incident, I think we can put this one to bed.

Shame there wasn't a crane at the end of that pitlane, mind :p :

[Tazio]

Hello!!
L.H. drove his car into a gravel trap because for all intents, and puposes he was driving on slicks, and the pit entry was more wet than the line on the track.
Don't try to put this on his team.
He made a silly mistake
No matter what the "Company Line" is.

Terrible???
Maybe a terrible lack of concentration by the driver!

[BeansBeansBeans]

I disagree. Those fastest laps towards the end would have kept the pressure on Alonso and who knows, could have induced a mistake.

Most drivers were posting their fastest times during the last few laps, simply because the track was improving. To suggest that Massa was cruising, and only tried to push towards the end, is a bit unfair.

[truefan72]

Kimi's randomly done a fast lap at the end of the race this year too, so you can't really use the argument that it shows he's a #2 like that.


c'mon fellows let's not play semantics here,
in this race, with these stakes, with this situation, was Massa up to the job?
Kimmi in an identical car managed to maintain and increase his gap to Alonso, Massa on the other hand drove about 10 very subpar laps that saw him fall back by over 8 seconds to Alonso, what am I missing?

That is the gist of that argument, not that his fastest laps at the end prove he's a #2, his 10-12 laps whenit mattered proved his a #2,
can you honestly say that in the same situation, Kimmi would have fallen back 8 seconds to alonso?

[FlatChatRacer]

Some very interesting comments. However, I have to admit that I gutted by this result.

In my opinion Lewis has missed a wonderful opportunity. I now make Alonso the favourite to take the title. Kimi is still 7pts behind and really needs another retirement from Lewis to take the title. Alonso however, knows it's now a do or die scenario. He will give it his all and I think have the edge.

I hate to say it, but I see Alonso out duelling Kimi for the win, and Lewis coming in 3rd or 4th.

Shame, but in F1 to finish first, first you must finish. Lewis is still ahead, but to me, Alonso is the favourite now.

[truefan72]

Most drivers were posting their fastest times during the last few laps, simply because the track was improving. To suggest that Massa was cruising, and only tried to push towards the end, is a bit unfair.


I was not suggesting that he was cruising, but that he wasn't pushing. in those critical out laps. And the fact that most drivers were doing their best times at the end of the GP further proves my point that those final fast laps had no bearing on the race. He should have been pushing at the beginning of that final stint with alonso on his nose. I'm not knocking the fastest laps, buty just saying that they were not an indicator of his agressivness in the race when it mattered

[Tazio]

Do you think the fastest laps of the race being at the end had anything to do with the TRACK BEING DRYER???

[airshifter]

A terrible mistake by Lewis, without doubt.

I'm still surprised the so many went back out on the intermediates without changing, when their fuel load was longer than tire change time. It would seem to me that inters that are almost slick could be replaced with slicks. Or if the tread was really still needed, replaced with new intermediates.

[FlatChatRacer]

Yes Tazio,

The fastest laps did seem to be a result of the track being drier lap after lap and thus providing increasing grip, giving the drivers increased confidence to push harder and harder.

[FlatChatRacer]

Airshifter,

I agree, a terrible mistake. In fact, if he goes on to Brazil and does not win, we may all look back on today, as the reason Lewis lost the WDC.

I still can't believe it, I'm still in shock!

[BeansBeansBeans]

I'd like point out that to 'Spill the Beans' does not mean what the thread starter thinks it means :p :

[ioan]

first of all. who said I don't like Massa

second, I am stating the obvoius,
did alonso not pull out 8 seconds over massa in a very short time?
did kimmi not need massa to overtake alonso?
when it mattered the most for his teamate and the team, he showed nothing.

please don't confuse observations with denigration
unless you think I've done a 180 and am denigrating Lewis Hamiton and Mcclaren with my comments.

give it a rest ion,

focus on the topic and stop with the stupid partisanship
can't you even take a ferrari win with some dignity?

I gave it a rest, but someone didn't. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

I'd like point out that to 'Spill the Beans' does not mean what the thread starter thinks it means :p :

A very good point about this thread!

[jens]

:mad: :( It was hard to believe my eyes to see a retirement in such a silly way... omg. After midrace it was still looking fine and I was thinking: "Only about 30 laps to go - please keep going and the title is yours..." So much about that...

In two of this season's three wet races inexperience cost Lewis. Hopefully he learns a lot from such situations for next years! Probably LH was kept out, because there was a fair chance that it started raining again (at for a moment it did).

[Valve Bounce]

, i only hope its Kimi and not Alonso who is there to pick up the pieces


You got that right!! Go Kimi!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[truefan72]

Yes Tazio,

The fastest laps did seem to be a result of the track being drier lap after lap and thus providing increasing grip, giving the drivers increased confidence to push harder and harder.


The issue isnt the faster laps, but the fastest laps.
That means he was pushing harder than anyone else at the end, when it didn't matter. Everyone was driving faster, buty he was the fastest. And my overall question was, where was that agressivness when it mattered.
why is that so difficult to understand people

[FlatChatRacer]

truefan72,

I understand your point very well.

Have you ever thought that maybe Massa did not have the confidence to push as hard as he needed to earlier on?

I think Massa was slow to get to grips with his tyres and the conditions and only felt the confidence to push in the last 6/7 laps.

Anyway, that is just my opinion on his inability to challenge Alonso.

[osg]

After Alonso's retirement and the Stewards support yesterday, justice is sweet :)

But calm down, Lewis will win in Brazil. The championship, I mean, I think that Massa will win the race.

After todays efforts, i predict Massa will struggle to win a game of marbles, let alone Brazil. He was woeful.

[ioan]

And so the thread about how Hamilton made a mess of this race is turning into the Massa bashing fest.

[Dave B]

And so the thread about how Hamilton made a mess of this race is turning into the Massa bashing fest.
You didn't seriously expect a thread to remain on topic, did you? My dear ioan, where have you been? :p

[ioan]

:mad: :( It was hard to believe my eyes to see a retirement in such a silly way... omg.

DC did better when he run into the pit entry wall many years ago. In perfectly dry conditions (if I remember it well!) ;)

[jens]

By the way, what I have noticed, is that although Lewis has great speed in wet conditions, he has problems in adapting to changing conditions! At Nürburgring the track was getting wetter and he went off. Later he changed for slicks too early. This time he was running very well until the track was becoming too dry for inters.

At Fuji the track was very wet for the whole race, so no dramas for him there.

[rohanweb]

I'd like point out that to 'Spill the Beans' does not mean what the thread starter thinks it means :p :

its all your fault mr.beans ... ;-)

[rohanweb]

By the way, what I have noticed, is that although Lewis has great speed in wet conditions, he has problems in adapting to changing conditions! At Nürburgring the track was getting wetter and he went off. Later he changed for slicks too early. This time he was running very well until the track was becoming too dry for inters.

At Fuji the track was very wet for the whole race, so no dramas for him there.


you are right.. I agree !

hope it wont rain at interlagos !!!

[ioan]

By the way, what I have noticed, is that although Lewis has great speed in wet conditions, he has problems in adapting to changing conditions! At Nürburgring the track was getting wetter and he went off. Later he changed for slicks too early. This time he was running very well until the track was becoming too dry for inters.

At Fuji the track was very wet for the whole race, so no dramas for him there.

Vettel is putting him in the shadow, when you consider the equipment.

[ArrowsFA1]

A mistake by the team was compounded by a mistake by Lewis :dozey: **** happens, but he leads the championship going to Brazil. That's a good position to be in.

[markabilly]

A sensible summary :up:

McLaren made a miscalculation in keeping Lewis out there for so long, but ultimately they would've gotten away with it, had Lewis taken a bit more care on entering the pitlane. As both McLaren and Hamilton have each accepted their share of blame for the incident, I think we can put this one to bed.

Shame there wasn't a crane at the end of that pitlane, mind :p :


There was, but did you not see benie sitting on it, at first looking very upset, then suddenly smiling, smiling and thinking may be I will get my wish of a last lap crash in brazil to decide it all with all those $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and extra $$$$$$$$$$$$$,,,,,so it never moved :D

Just to keep the money out of bernie enrie pockets, I wanted it over :mad: but a place or two behind FA should be a walk in the park to WDC for LH...

unless FA is parked in the gravel with LH in place or two behind him....then that leaves Kimi. Benerie's nightmare WDC -one can just see Kimi skips the podium celerbration and then in the world wide interview by the usual pompous one, he is asked where was he, and his response is "I was taking a seeite"......
:rotflmao:

[ICKE]

Very interesting quote from Dennis after the race. Who is "we" in this context? Himself and Hamilton? Mclaren?

It does give substance to Alonso´s comments concerning mistreatment and how he has not been respected.

"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.

"Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn't quite work out that way."

[Buzz Lightyear]

has anyone just seen autosport.com

"Interestingly, Dennis said that the team's focus in making a decision about delaying Hamilton's change of tyres was not in what Ferrari were up to, but what Fernando Alonso was doing.

"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando. "

It looks as if Alonso really has his own team, and not even Dennis knows what stategry he has. After Alonso spitting the dummy yesterday, there is no possible place for him in McLaren next year.

[markabilly]

Very interesting quote from Dennis after the race. Who is "we" in this context? Himself and Hamilton? Mclaren?

It does give substance to Alonso´s comments concerning mistreatment and how he has not been respected.

"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.

"Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn't quite work out that way."


BINGO :eek:

Now if he had said that "useless recycled driver freddie the blackmailer who I was stupid enough to hire"....perhaps it would have been a little clearer as to who he meant

[janneppi]

What was the context of the answer?
Was he asked about Hamilton or the race in general? Makes all the difference in the world.

[yodasarmpit]

I would also like to see the quote in context.

However, Fernando should feel lucky that RD even gives him a car to race with. After the blackmail saga, if it were my team, I would have given him a unicycle and told him where to go with it.

[markabilly]

Very interesting quote from Dennis after the race. Who is "we" in this context? Himself and Hamilton? Mclaren?

It does give substance to Alonso´s comments concerning mistreatment and how he has not been respected.

"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.

"Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn't quite work out that way."


BINGO :eek:

Now if he had said that "useless recycled driver freddie the blackmailer who I was stupid enough to hire"....perhaps it would have been a little clearer as to who he meant

Okay--there you conspiracy, paranoid nut cases go again, thinking just cause RD pulled a big freudian slip, and let the cat and kool aid out of the bag by letting out what he was really thinking....that does NOT mean there is a conspiracy except in your twisted little minds :D

Happy now Janneppi :s mokin: :s mokin:

[janneppi]

Seeing it was in question about Lewis's tyre issue, Dennis's comment makes sense in a way.

Agree with the unicycle comment though.

[markabilly]

What was the context of the answer?
Was he asked about Hamilton or the race in general? Makes all the difference in the world.

Read it all: Very clear who RD was favoring with his strategy:

"We were very keen to maintain the lead. It was so comfortable for him (Hamilton) to pull out the gap on Kimi that he gave the tyres a little bit more of a hard time. But Fernando and the two Ferraris stopped after him.
"I don't think we did anything dramatically wrong and neither did Lewis. But the circuit was considerably drier than the pitlane entrance. That's what made the difference."
He added: "It was easy to say, we could have stopped earlier, but would it have made a difference? Everybody had the same thought. Last year with Alonso, when he went onto intermediates, they immediately grained and he was extremely slow.
"All the top teams, Ferrari and ourselves, were trying to get through the rain and straight onto a dry tyre."
Interestingly, Dennis said that the team's focus in making a decision about delaying Hamilton's change of tyres was not in what Ferrari were up to, but what Fernando Alonso was doing.
"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.
"Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn't quite work out that way."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63139

Be sure to merge this thread somewhere so people do not notice this repeated and clear context..... :D :D


He is not talikng about FA as "we" but LH and Mac as "we" and freddie as freddie!!!!we were basically racing Fernando.....we were not fazed about Kimi...as long as Lewis finished second (and ahead of FA--championship over!!!)

I know, I am so sorry, it must hurt, really deep...oh well...

[Daniel]

It's Hamilton's own fault for pushing too hard and fighting with Kimi. When James Allen points out that the battle wasn't with Kimi (Allen was right) then you've got to question Hamilton's judgement. Schumacher always drove with a view to the.

As Kenny Rogers once said ....

"You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, Know when to walk away and know when to run."

.... and Lewis' single minded focus on winning lost him the race. Yes McLaren could have brought him in earlier but as always the only person in control (or not in control) of the car is the driver. Lewis bit off more than he could chew and paid for it.

C'est la vie!

[Daniel]

BINGO :eek:

Now if he had said that "useless recycled driver freddie the blackmailer who I was stupid enough to hire"....perhaps it would have been a little clearer as to who he meant
Why can't you just talk sensibly for once instead of having to try and be humourous in every single one of your inane posts. Sure humour is good sometimes but do try and make sense at least sometimes.

[slinkster]

I'm gutted for Hamilton and I was angry that he wasn't brought in sooner. It seemed best to bring him in pretty much as soon as Kimi had passed him and he was caught in traffic. I'm just glad it hasn't scuppered his chances of the championship so fingers crossed.

Other thoughts on the race- pleased for Fisichella who actually seemed to be pushing himself for a change. And, Ralf Schumacher seemed to be completely clueless throughout!

[Donney]

McLaren made a huge mistake which seems to be a constant through the season, not in terms of strategies, but with all the issues surrounding the team.

Alonso had his miracle and let's see what he does in brazil, but frankly it still looks bread and butter for Hamilton.

[markabilly]

Why can't you just talk sensibly for once instead of having to try and be humourous in every single one of your inane posts. Sure humour is good sometimes but do try and make sense at least sometimes.
Okay--I am sorry...I know it hurts...I should never laugh at a funeral :s mokin:


Funny the sudden quiet about RD revealing his true thoughts....... :vader:

[Daniel]

It's not just this thread. You never really seem to make sense or have an ounce of seriousness about them. Humour is a great weapon when used in moderation. But when every post is trying so hard to be funny then none of your posts seem funny

[janneppi]

I know, I am so sorry, it must hurt, really deep...oh well...
I do hope you're not thinking I'm a supporter of Hamilton, Dennis or McLaren, because you would be very wrong.

[markabilly]

I do hope you're not thinking I'm a supporter of Hamilton, Dennis or McLaren, because you would be very wrong.
Sorry I was not refferring to you---

as to some of the others, this is a business about entertainment, pure and simple---so it really is not worth a serious thought at all, and if you expect someone who has been called conspiracy nut case, paranoid, "overly paranoid" (not sure what the difference is between paranoid and overly paranoid is..), etc and so forth, on this forum, whose predictions about Mac turned out to be 100% accurrate as well as the eventual outcome of the WDC----to be so serious and pompous about something that has become a silly circus on the level of Paris Hilton and pro westlin where money is what it is all about.....expectations noted.........

but that last little comments of RD just confirms what he said earlier in the year and what I said about that....so if there is anyway to keep FA from being WDC by RD, that will happen, even if Kimi, bernie's nightmare wdc, is the one crowned :D :D

[keysersoze]

Good grief, Lewis makes a mistake and now many on this board think:

1) he's a bad driver, or
2) he ain't gonna win the WDC

or both

Lewis has raced side-by-side and nose-to-tail against the best drivers in F1 all year. He's rarely raced outside the top four, rarely raced against even good, race-winning drivers like Button, Fisi, Jarno, Ralf, DC, and Rubens. He has been under tremendous pressure since race 1, and he has been nothing short of superb.

But ALL drivers make mistakes. Heck, our reigning 2-time WDC made a big one just last week. Like Arrows said, Hamilton has a four point lead with but a race to go, so he is still looking very strong.

[Easy Drifter]

I understand Lewis has been taking pit lane entry lessons from Danica Patrick?

[F1MAN2007]

Vettel is putting him in the shadow, when you consider the equipment.

Totally agree with you.

Vettel already broke the record of a youngest and a rookie to score points in F1 with a 'monkey' car. :D

[F1MAN2007]

BINGO :eek:

Now if he had said that "useless recycled driver freddie the blackmailer who I was stupid enough to hire"....perhaps it would have been a little clearer as to who he meant


Haaaaaaa!!!!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :beer:

[VkmSpouge]

Shame for Hamilton but it is of his and McLaren's own making. Hamilton showed a lack of tactical experience in the conditions (no such excuse for McLaren), which of course is to be expected from a rookie. Hamilton should have pitted earlier, he was losing so much time it was daft for him to stay out. That said Hamilton seemed to take it alright for someone who knows he should be F1 World Champion today. He'll learn from the experience and put it behind him, he's still favourite to win the title and it is very much in his hands. While Alonso and Raikkonen need others to help them win the title at Interlagos all Hamilton has to do is finish second.
While I'm disappointed Hamilton did not win the title today I am sort of pleased the championship will go down to the wire.

[Mickers]

A rookie mistake??? Get out of here. His tires were shot, this was not his fault. Somebody goofed up and it wasn't Lewis.

[Daniel]

Mickers. Who was driving? Who chose to fight with a non rival?

[usa]

Lewis is out of the track and he speaks to the team...

Lewis :o h no, no, no..
Ron Denis: whats the problem??

L: Im out, The crane.....were is the crane?
RD: we cant use the crane there

L: dont f..K me, were is the f.....g crane??
RD: take it esasy, commissaires wil push you

L: come on.....push, push

L: no, NOOO, PUSHH

L: what are they doing, push..push...push.........useless
RD: you must leave, its over

[Mickers]

They saw he was struggling with the tires for at least 3 laps. If he could've pulled in dont you think he would've?? What you think he didn't know about the tires, that it was just bad driving? Doubt it.

[Daniel]

You drive to the conditions. HE drove too fast into the corner and didn't make it. No one elses fault. There were contributing factors but the nut loose behind the wheel was Lewis.

[F1MAN2007]

Why can't you just talk sensibly for once instead of having to try and be humourous in every single one of your inane posts. Sure humour is good sometimes but do try and make sense at least sometimes.

I prefer his humorous comments than some of the ****posts here. At least he is brilliant when he tries and be humourous in his posts whatever he may be saying. At least he made my day!!!

[markabilly]

A rookie mistake??? Get out of here. His tires were shot, this was not his fault. Somebody goofed up and it wasn't Lewis.

Funny how FA went one or two more laps, same tires, no issues and no worn out tires causing slip/sliding....a rookie mistake...burns the tires up

maybe explains difference in set up and lap times between FA and LH...Brits ought to blame this one on FA for not sharing his set up data, like the Brits all did when LH's left front tire popped a few races ago......or maybe just blame the rookie for being a rookie :s mokin:

Always easier to be the hunter with nothing to lose, per FA after MS the last two seasons, and then when FA becomes the hunted on a team where the hunter is his own team mate, who has a patron saint as the boss, who has made the comments that he has made, the cracks show thorigh....however, now FA nor Kimi have nothing to lose, and LH is now the hunted...cracks are beginning to op out....and into the gravel off the pitlane?? Double rookie mistake...

[F1MAN2007]

They saw he was struggling with the tires for at least 3 laps. If he could've pulled in dont you think he would've?? What you think he didn't know about the tires, that it was just bad driving? Doubt it.

The team was racing Alonso but Lewis was racing Kimmi. It is from there he made a mistake. Simple as that.

[Dave B]

I assume you have a source for this? :erm:

[F1MAN2007]

Sorry I was not refferring to you---

as to some of the others, this is a business about entertainment, pure and simple---so it really is not worth a serious thought at all, and if you expect someone who has been called conspiracy nut case, paranoid, "overly paranoid" (not sure what the difference is between paranoid and overly paranoid is..), etc and so forth, on this forum, whose predictions about Mac turned out to be 100% accurrate as well as the eventual outcome of the WDC----to be so serious and pompous about something that has become a silly circus on the level of Paris Hilton and pro westlin where money is what it is all about.....expectations noted.........

but that last little comments of RD just confirms what he said earlier in the year and what I said about that....so if there is anyway to keep FA from being WDC by RD, that will happen, even if Kimi, bernie's nightmare wdc, is the one crowned :D :D

For me you are brilliant when you try and be humourous in your posts.!!
:up:

[yodasarmpit]

Funny how FA went one or two more laps, same tires, no issues and no worn out tires causing slip/sliding....a rookie mistake...burns the tires up


Hardly a rookie mistake, his driving style is to dial in a little oversteer, something he has done all season, and is now leading the championship - not bad for a rookie :)

However, even though McLaren made the mistake of not bringing him in earlier, it was all down to Lewis for not slowing down at the pit entry, yep he made a mistake too.

[TL]

source or not..don't get it what "usa" is trying to prove with that post !

[F1MAN2007]

A rookie mistake??? Get out of here. His tires were shot, this was not his fault. Somebody goofed up and it wasn't Lewis.

I think the Golden Boy knows better of what happened than you :

“Obviously when I got out of the car I was just gutted, because I haven’t made a mistake all year and to do it on the way into the pits is not something I usually do."

“But you can’t go through life without making mistakes, and I’m over it". (LH)

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40986

[Flat.tyres]

You guys are making a big deal out of something that is not. He just overshoot the corner at pit entry and had the bad luck that there was a gravel trap there. Had he taken that corner a couple km/h slower, he would be the WDC now. Just a small mistake with big consequences, but no big deal, no conspiracy, no fate.

Totally agree. I haven't heard yet why they didn't bring him in earlier but Lewis cocked up and made a mistake. No shame there, everyone makes them but Lewis must hate tyres after the year he's had with them.

[markabilly]

Lewis is out of the track and he speaks to the team...

Lewis :o h no, no, no..
Ron Denis: whats the problem??

L: Im out, The crane.....were is the crane?
RD: we cant use the crane there

L: dont f..K me, were is the f.....g crane??
RD: take it esasy, commissaires wil push you

L: come on.....push, push

L: no, NOOO, PUSHH

L: what are they doing, push..push...push.........useless
RD: you must leave, its over

:rotflmao:

LH: Go swivel....i want my REAL daddy...give him the keys to the crane...now...

RD: Can't. Bernie has them, and he is too busy blabbering on about how much money he is going to make off the next race...can not get a word in at all..

:crazy:

[TMorel]

meanwhile, Alonso's conversation goes something like this

FA "hey, how come Kimi is pulling away from me? We're in the same car. Useless McLaren mechanics, I get Nigel to give them the blueprints and the race strategy and they still can't get it right"

Todt "I'm sorry, next year we'll tell Kimi to slow down when he's your teammate"

meanwhile the conversation with Kimi and his crew
Kimi "...and then the monkey fell out of the hammock"
Chris Dyer "[laughing] oh kimi that was the funniest joke ever, you're such a comedy genius... oh crap, Bernie might be listening in, pretend you're boring again"


[we are playing "who can make up the most ridiculous story" aren't we?]

[markabilly]

For me you are brilliant when you try and be humourous in your posts.!!
:up:

Thanks but as you know we got a tough audience out there, another tough race to go, but it not our fault, we got to do our best to beat FA as we are not fazed by Kimi...i mean-- opps-- I just trying to be fair and err..equality rules in the Hamilton team---i mean the macferrari team...err whatever.. :D

[F1MAN2007]

Lewis is out of the track and he speaks to the team...

Lewis :o h no, no, no..
Ron Denis: whats the problem??

L: Im out, The crane.....were is the crane?
RD: we cant use the crane there

L: dont f..K me, were is the f.....g crane??
RD: take it esasy, commissaires wil push you

L: come on.....push, push

L: no, NOOO, PUSHH

L: what are they doing, push..push...push.........useless
RD: you must leave, its over






LH: Go swivel....i want my REAL daddy...give him the keys to the crane...now...

RD: Can't. Bernie has them, and he is too busy blabbering on about how much money he is going to make off the next race...can not get a word in at all..



:up: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :beer:

[blakebeatty]

look at the condition of the tyres!!!!!

http://images.teamtalk.com/07/10/330/3_580615.jpg

[F1MAN2007]

Thanks but as you know we got a tough audience out there, another tough race to go, but it not our fault, we got to do our best to beat FA as we are not fazed by Kimi...i mean-- opps-- I just trying to be fair and err..equality rules in the Hamilton team---i mean the macferrari team...err whatever.. :D

You are the best Markabilly!!!!

[F1MAN2007]

look at the condition of the tyres!!!!!

http://images.teamtalk.com/07/10/330/3_580615.jpg

I think the team was very busy in following what Alonso was doing than to take care of their bloody boy. Shame to them

[markabilly]

look at the condition of the tyres!!!!!

http://images.teamtalk.com/07/10/330/3_580615.jpg
Yes the rookie burned both of them up real good---wonder just how FA manged to get by and go a couple of more laps on the same tires..... :D

[VkmSpouge]

A rookie mistake??? Get out of here. His tires were shot, this was not his fault. Somebody goofed up and it wasn't Lewis.


Mickers. Who was driving? Who chose to fight with a non rival?

Both Hamilton and McLaren can share blame for this. Either one could have got a pitstop a couple of laps earlier like they should have. Hamilton will learn from this experience.

[ioan]

Lewis is out of the track and he speaks to the team...

Lewis :o h no, no, no..
Ron Denis: whats the problem??

L: Im out, The crane.....were is the crane?
RD: we cant use the crane there

L: dont f..K me, were is the f.....g crane??
RD: take it esasy, commissaires wil push you

L: come on.....push, push

L: no, NOOO, PUSHH

L: what are they doing, push..push...push.........useless
RD: you must leave, its over


:rotflmao:

LH: Go swivel....i want my REAL daddy...give him the keys to the crane...now...

RD: Can't. Bernie has them, and he is too busy blabbering on about how much money he is going to make off the next race...can not get a word in at all..

:crazy:

:rotflmao:
Great! Good to see some sense of humor! :up:

[BeansBeansBeans]

Of course, the rules regarding cranes have changed now, so had Lewis been lifted back on by one, he'd have been disqualified.

[SGWilko]

Lewis was gracious in defeat. It is nice to see that not only does he know how to win, he knows how be dignified in losing.

Now, does anyone have a spare black and decker workmate, I hear there are a few doors need re-attatching in the McLaren motorhome, something about a bad loser?

If Lewis does not clinch it in Brazil, god do I hope it goes to Kimi. It'l shut up the poor hard done by JT and LDM, and Kimi is owed a couple isn't he?

NB - for the conspirators out there, it was my fault Lewis failed to finish. I read my stars last night, said something about rings round uranus.....

[Bagwan]

I count 3 mistakes .
McLaren should have brought him in . That's one , but it was a gamble and they lost . That's forgiveable .

Lewis , though knowing his tires were well pooched , came in too hot to a wet pit lane entrance . That's 2 , and Lewis's alone , although you could say , perhaps that maybe his team didn't ell him that , but it seems a bit weak .

Thirdly , I'm not sure who instructs these guys what to do when you are in the kitty litter , but Lewis , at least , needs some instruction .
If you can keep it moving , Mr Hamilton , it would be good . But if you can't , and you stop , DON'T DROP THE CLUTCH ! You just bury yourself that way .
Had Lewis not dumped it , and dug it in , those marshalls might have been able to push him out .

Of 3 mistakes , 2 were from the rookie .

[Dzeidzei]

Of course, the rules regarding cranes have changed now, so had Lewis been lifted back on by one, he'd have been disqualified.

Wanna bet?

He got away with his stunts behind the pacecar in Japan. Im sure Whiting and the rest of the Hamilton posse would have figured out something.

[markabilly]

hopes this works

[osg]

meanwhile, Alonso's conversation goes something like this

FA "hey, how come Kimi is pulling away from me? We're in the same car. Useless McLaren mechanics, I get Nigel to give them the blueprints and the race strategy and they still can't get it right"

Todt "I'm sorry, next year we'll tell Kimi to slow down when he's your teammate"

meanwhile the conversation with Kimi and his crew
Kimi "...and then the monkey fell out of the hammock"
Chris Dyer "[laughing] oh kimi that was the funniest joke ever, you're such a comedy genius... oh crap, Bernie might be listening in, pretend you're boring again"


[we are playing "who can make up the most ridiculous story" aren't we?]


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Funny stuff right there!!!

[BDunnell]

It's all very well saying that he should have come in/been brought in earlier, but, as I recall, the way the conditions were going to go was so uncertain that leaving him out as long as possible was the best option. As it turned out, the call was wrong.

[yodasarmpit]

It's all very well saying that he should have come in/been brought in earlier, but, as I recall, the way the conditions were going to go was so uncertain that leaving him out as long as possible was the best option. As it turned out, the call was wrong.
The only argument against that for me is, Hamilton did not have to win today so being more conservative may have been the right choice.

[BDunnell]

The only argument against that for me is, Hamilton did not have to win today so being more conservative may have been the right choice.

Indeed, although doing that could have also cost him a lot of points, because the call could still have been wrong. Look at how many places Coulthard lost as a result of having to pit an extra time, and the huge gains made by Vettel and Button for getting the gamble right (as well as driving very well, of course).

[ShiftingGears]

Lewis is gonna have a tyre blowout on lap 63 at Brazil. This will end his race, forcing Alonso in for a precautionary stop, making Raikkonen's points haul enough to win the championship. Kimi has this one in the bag :D

[Eki]

The only argument against that for me is, Hamilton did not have to win today so being more conservative may have been the right choice.
I think trying to defend his position against Kimi was especially hard on Hamilton's tyres. On the other hand, McLaren should have changed them immediately after Kimi had passed Hamilton.

[BDunnell]

Lewis is gonna have a tyre blowout on lap 63 at Brazil. This will end his race, forcing Alonso in for a precautionary stop, making Raikkonen's points haul enough to win the championship. Kimi has this one in the bag :D

:laugh:

And, on ITV, James Allen will shout: 'AND LOOK AT THAT!'

[Ranger]

Lewis is out of shangai gp.

why the heck Mclaren boys left it too long to bring in Lewis.
certainly his tyres were looking really bad for number of laps, and he was losing something like 3 seconds per lap at times..

I want to rip Lewis's race engineer's trousers and beat his back until he dies.

this is just toomuch of a mistake by mclaren costs lewis's race! now Alonso and the co are laughing at Lewis needs someone to push his car back on to the track..

well.. all going go down to the wire in brazil... I sense Lewis might just wobble and lose again.. i hope not.

I remember Kimi's race when they left him to take a gamble then his tyres failed... today mclaren also proved to be greedy.

real shame ;-(

If he had a technical failure causing him to go into that gravel trap then I'd agree with you.

But that spin was purely of his own accord as he did not pay due care on obviously worn tyres. A cruel, cruel mistake.

But still. Three drivers in the fight for WDC in a fortnight... ain't exactly something I'd be complaining about! :D

[fandango]

It's all very well saying that he should have come in/been brought in earlier, but, as I recall, the way the conditions were going to go was so uncertain that leaving him out as long as possible was the best option. As it turned out, the call was wrong.


The pit lane entry was in the same state a lap earlier, and his tyres weren't that much better. The call was not wrong. Hamilton made a rookie mistake, by overcooking his tyres where Alonso didn't, just to stay ahead of Kimi, and then doing "The Coulthard Shuffle" on the way in to the pits. He'll get over it, though.

[markabilly]

meanwhile, Alonso's conversation goes something like this

FA "hey, how come Kimi is pulling away from me? We're in the same car. Useless McLaren mechanics, I get Nigel to give them the blueprints and the race strategy and they still can't get it right"

Todt "I'm sorry, next year we'll tell Kimi to slow down when he's your teammate"

meanwhile the conversation with Kimi and his crew
Kimi "...and then the monkey fell out of the hammock"
Chris Dyer "[laughing] oh kimi that was the funniest joke ever, you're such a comedy genius... oh crap, Bernie might be listening in, pretend you're boring again"


[we are playing "who can make up the most ridiculous story" aren't we?]


Actually---- No one can come up with "the most ridiculous story" that will ever top what RD has said about "we were racing against Alsonso"---

and the winner is.....RD....too bad it appears to be true :eek:

[mstillhere]

meanwhile, Alonso's conversation goes something like this

FA "hey, how come Kimi is pulling away from me? We're in the same car. Useless McLaren mechanics, I get Nigel to give them the blueprints and the race strategy and they still can't get it right"

Todt "I'm sorry, next year we'll tell Kimi to slow down when he's your teammate"

meanwhile the conversation with Kimi and his crew
Kimi "...and then the monkey fell out of the hammock"
Chris Dyer "[laughing] oh kimi that was the funniest joke ever, you're such a comedy genius... oh crap, Bernie might be listening in, pretend you're boring again"


[we are playing "who can make up the most ridiculous story" aren't we?]

WOW!! It's histerical!!! :)

[tinchote]

I still find it funny that the guy is leading the WDC with one race to go, and people are curcifying him for his mistake. Even if he loses it at Interlagos, his season has been amazing. As far as I can tell, this is the first clear mistake he made this season. His star teammate on the other hand, has made more mistakes than him and is trailing him in the WDC. I still find it amazing that there is people here willing to bash the guy :s

[FlatChatRacer]

Trouble is, no one really considers him a rookie, because he is mixing it with Alonso and Raikkonen.

Up until China, Hamilton has been driving like a seasoned pro with blistering speed.

Therefore, Hamilton is being judged by the same standards that the top drivers have been for years.

Alonso will nick this title by a whisker and Hamilton will have learnt a hard lesson. Like Senna in 1987, it will make him stronger for the future and difficult to beat.

[Ari]

Yes the rookie burned both of them up real good---wonder just how FA manged to get by and go a couple of more laps on the same tires..... :D

Maybe all this talk of the McLaren team making a mistake was actually true in a round about way?

Perhaps they accidentally gave Lewis the faulty tyres instead of Nando!! :D

[Ari]

Lewis was gracious in defeat.

I agree with that. Still had a smile on his face and took it all onboard.

[Ari]

If he had a technical failure causing him to go into that gravel trap then I'd agree with you.

But that spin was purely of his own accord as he did not pay due care on obviously worn tyres. A cruel, cruel mistake.

But still. Three drivers in the fight for WDC in a fortnight... ain't exactly something I'd be complaining about! :D

No no... it was the teams fault. They should have gone out there and carried his car the last couple laps.

Next the armco will be jumping out and getting him, poor guy.

[Schultz]

Okay, this may have already been discussed, but has anybody considered that Hamilton should have said something if his tires were dangerous?

I mean, the Red Bull team asked Coulthard over radio how he felt about his tires and DC was able to make the call that he wanted to stay on the same tires unless the rain came down again. Surely LH would have been given the same freedom to express his feeling that he needed new tires, or different tires. The fact is, he knew how bad his tires were more than anyone else and it was atleast partly his decision to stay out there. His mistake at the pitlane entry therefore, has to be almost entirely his fault.

This is one thing that annoys me in Mclaren. He is their golden boy and he is being treated like one. The team were quick to stand up and say it was our fault, but my assessment is different and it just reallys seems like a dishonest Mclaren setup bound by patriotism.

[BDunnell]

I still find it funny that the guy is leading the WDC with one race to go, and people are curcifying him for his mistake. Even if he loses it at Interlagos, his season has been amazing.

I couldn't agree more, and I'm sure most F1 experts will (quite rightly) say much the same.

[BDunnell]

I mean, the Red Bull team asked Coulthard over radio how he felt about his tires and DC was able to make the call that he wanted to stay on the same tires unless the rain came down again. Surely LH would have been given the same freedom to express his feeling that he needed new tires, or different tires.

Well, Red Bull and Coulthard made a mistake, because he ought to have finished fourth and made one less stop. The call for McLaren and Hamilton was very difficult. It's all very well suggesting that they should have been more cautious, but in those conditions, what is cautious? The weather was so unpredictable that leaving him out for as long as possible was probably the most conservative option going. Stopping earlier could have led to a point-less result too.

[SGWilko]

Thirdly , I'm not sure who instructs these guys what to do when you are in the kitty litter , but Lewis , at least , needs some instruction .
If you can keep it moving , Mr Hamilton , it would be good . But if you can't , and you stop , DON'T DROP THE CLUTCH ! You just bury yourself that way .
Had Lewis not dumped it , and dug it in , those marshalls might have been able to push him out .


Not sure about that. He had not completely stopped moving when he let the clutch out.....

The inters, because of their chunky tread, means the cars ride a little higher when wearing them. As Lewis's tyres were balder that your average unlicenced London minicabs tyres, I would suggest that the cars floor was catching on the graven anyway.

The guy made a mistake - making mistakes is all about learning. Kimi has made them (missing pit lane in Germany), massa (going off the track in Bahrain) so has Alonso (hitting the wall in Canada when in the Renault). It is a bitter pill for him to swallow, but it happens.

He picked himself up, dusted himself down, and lives to fight another day.

[Daniel]

I still find it funny that the guy is leading the WDC with one race to go, and people are curcifying him for his mistake. Even if he loses it at Interlagos, his season has been amazing. As far as I can tell, this is the first clear mistake he made this season. His star teammate on the other hand, has made more mistakes than him and is trailing him in the WDC. I still find it amazing that there is people here willing to bash the guy :s
I think it's more to do with the fact that people are blaming anyone else other than Hamilton. It wasn't a big error but it was Hamilton's nonetheless. If your driver makes a mistake just admit it and move on. The problem was Lewis didn't appear to admit the mistake. A good tradesman never blames his tools and Hamilton should just admit it was his fault. Nothing more nothing less. I for one am glad Lewis was so singleminded and didn't see the big picture because now Kimi still has title hopes :)

[ShiftingGears]

Hamilton did admit his error, though. I thought he took his error with extreme grace.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63109

[Flat.tyres]

I think it's more to do with the fact that people are blaming anyone else other than Hamilton. It wasn't a big error but it was Hamilton's nonetheless. If your driver makes a mistake just admit it and move on. The problem was Lewis didn't appear to admit the mistake. A good tradesman never blames his tools and Hamilton should just admit it was his fault. Nothing more nothing less. I for one am glad Lewis was so singleminded and didn't see the big picture because now Kimi still has title hopes :)

Are you just guessing that he didn't admit it because you didn't watch it :rolleyes:

He immediatly said it was his mistake and was sorry for the team.

[Daniel]

Are you just guessing that he didn't admit it because you didn't watch it :rolleyes:

He immediatly said it was his mistake and was sorry for the team.
"Hamilton said there was nothing he could do to prevent his car running off the track as he came into the pits."

Is his first name Jenson? :rolleyes:

[Flat.tyres]

"Hamilton said there was nothing he could do to prevent his car running off the track as he came into the pits."

Is his first name Jenson? :rolleyes:

Can you post a link like this.


I was trying to be very careful and as a result was not really fighting aggressively with Kimi,” explained Hamilton. “It would have worked out perfectly, but I then made a mistake coming into the pitlane and that was it. We made the right decision, and it was just unfortunate. I will now focus on attacking in Brazil where I will do everything I can to bounce back.

"When I got out of the car I was obviously gutted for both myself and the team. I haven’t made a mistake all year but I am over it now. There is still one race to go, so I can still do it. I made a strong start to the race and my first stop went well. Prior to entering the pit lane for my last stop I was constantly talking to the team. Although my tyres were in poor condition we took a joint decision to get through the last rain shower before changing to dry tyres.”

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/10/6953.html

[Daniel]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63109

It seems Lewis' poo-poo's don't stink like that of normal people.

[Flat.tyres]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63109

It seems Lewis' poo-poo's don't stink like that of normal people.

I don't know what you are refering to with your pre-school language but if you are retracting your post that Lewis didn't accept responsibility then fine.

Also, the team acknowledged that Lewis made a mistake but that there was no fault attached. McLaren could have brought him in earlier with hindsight but it was a small mistake and nobody is going to dwell on it.

BTW, the full quote you selectivly used is here.


"When I was out of the car I was just gutted because it was my first mistake all year and to do it on the way into the pits was not something I usually do.

You cannot go through life without making mistakes. But I am over it and we look forward to Brazil. The team will be working hard to make sure the car is quick enough there, and we still have points in the bag.


We were having a great race and we didn't know if it was going to rain or not. The tyres were getting worse and worse and you could almost see the canvas underneath. When I came into the pits it was like ice, I couldn't do anything about it.


My mirrors were completely dirty, so I couldn't see through them. I couldn't see my tyres; they just felt like they were finished.
I was coming in that lap so it could have worked out perfectly, I think we had the pace in the dry and I am sorry for the team, they did a fantastic job as always. We have still got one more race to go and we can still do it.

So, his tyres were down to canvas, he came in, made a small mistake and accepted it.

What is the problem and why the toilet talk. Sorry chap, but if you have some reason to dislike him, then fine. I just dont think you should post un-truths and insults as justification for your bias :confused:

[Daniel]

How can you be making a mistake when there's nothing you could have done? Richard Hammond crashing that jet car was a case of "Nothing he could have done" but Hamilton was in control and shouldn't blame anyone else other than himself for frying his tyres (Same ones Alonso used) for no real reason and so should his fans.

I don't like Hamilton's attitude but I think he'd a good driver. Still doesn't make up for him making a mistake and saying it was his mistake and then saying that it wasn't.

As for poo-poo's I wasn't going to say the real word because the world has no place on this forum even if the phrase does.

Lewis should realise you can't polish a turd!

Edit: As for half truths and bias you can place them gently, with the help of some good lubrication where the sun doesn't shine. I simply don't like Lewis and HIS half truths. "Firstly it was my fault and I'd just like to say in closing that there was nothing I could have done about it (Not my fault)"

[janneppi]

Hamilton says twice in that story he was at fault, what do you expect him to do, beg for forgivness in every sentence?

After he lost the corner, there was nothing he could do, simple as that.

[Daniel]

Hamilton says twice in that story he was at fault, what do you expect him to do, beg for forgivness in every sentence?

After he lost the corner, there was nothing he could do, simple as that.
Not say there was nothing he could do about it because that basically says it's not my fault because there's nothing I could have done about it ;) He could have at least said "It was incredible!!!!" :p

[Mark]

You know, if there's one thing I've learned from being in the army,
it's never ignore a poo-poo. I knew a major. He got poo-pooed.
Made the mistake of ignoring the poo-poo. He poo-pooed it.
Fatal error, because it turned out all along that the soldier who
poo-pooed him had been poo-pooing a lot of other officers, who
poo-pooed their poo-poos. In the end, we had to disband the regiment
- morale totally destroyed - by poo-poo.

[Flat.tyres]

How can you be making a mistake when there's nothing you could have done? Richard Hammond crashing that jet car was a case of "Nothing he could have done" but Hamilton was in control and shouldn't blame anyone else other than himself for frying his tyres (Same ones Alonso used) for no real reason and so should his fans.

Richard Hammond didn't have to get in it which you could say, with hindsight, was a mistake.

Lewis couldn't see how bad his tyres were and entered the pit too fast for the state of them where he found no grip and it was like driving on ice. From that point forward, there was nothing he could do about it. What is so wrong with that. It makes perfect sense to me.


I don't like Hamilton's attitude but I think he'd a good driver. That is your opinion and nobody is trying to change it but we will pick you up when you post things that are clearly wrong.


Still doesn't make up for him making a mistake and saying it was his mistake and then saying that it wasn't.Hopefully we have cleared that one up now.


As for poo-poo's I wasn't going to say the real word because the world has no place on this forum even if the phrase does.

Lewis should realise you can't polish a turd!What turd is he polishing :confused: Again, you have lost me. Is the car what you are talking about, the team, Lewis, what?


Edit: As for half truths and bias you can place them gently, with the help of some good lubrication where the sun doesn't shine. Hey, I don't mind personal comments like this but the Mods like penalising me for this type of comment so I suggest you try to be slightly more cordial. Just a word of advice ;)


I simply don't like Lewis and HIS half truths. "Firstly it was my fault and I'd just like to say in closing that there was nothing I could have done about it (Not my fault)"Already dealt with.

[janneppi]

And that nothing beats university education. ;)

[BDunnell]

Hamilton was in control and shouldn't blame anyone else other than himself for frying his tyres (Same ones Alonso used) for no real reason and so should his fans.

There are other perfectly good opinions on this subject, so not everybody 'should' agree with you.

[Daniel]

Richard Hammond didn't have to get in it which you could say, with hindsight, was a mistake.

Lewis couldn't see how bad his tyres were and entered the pit too fast for the state of them where he found no grip and it was like driving on ice. From that point forward, there was nothing he could do about it. What is so wrong with that. It makes perfect sense to me.

That is your opinion and nobody is trying to change it but we will pick you up when you post things that are clearly wrong.

Hopefully we have cleared that one up now.

What turd is he polishing :confused: Again, you have lost me. Is the car what you are talking about, the team, Lewis, what?

Hey, I don't mind personal comments like this but the Mods like penalising me for this type of comment so I suggest you try to be slightly more cordial. Just a word of advice ;)

Already dealt with.
Yes master. I apologise for being wrong and will never doubt thee again :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

There are other perfectly good opinions on this subject, so not everybody 'should' agree with you.
What I'm talking about is opinions like the ones voiced in this thread which blame McLaren when it was Hamilton who knew his tyres were gone and chose to go too fast. As I said when James Allen is saying something that makes perfect sense ("Why is he fighting with Kimi" JA the certified bonehead was heard to say) and the driver seems to be defying logic then you've got to wonder. Hamilton spilt his own beans and to blame anyone else would be silly.

[Flat.tyres]

What I'm talking about is opinions like the ones voiced in this thread which blame McLaren when it was Hamilton who knew his tyres were gone and chose to go too fast. As I said when James Allen is saying something that makes perfect sense ("Why is he fighting with Kimi" JA the certified bonehead was heard to say) and the driver seems to be defying logic then you've got to wonder. Hamilton spilt his own beans and to blame anyone else would be silly.

Thats what a lot of us like about Lewis. He is a racer that wants to win.

OK, he would be happy to lift the title but he goes out to win the GP first and that's what it's all about. He could (and with that wonderful Hindsight viewer) and should have tippy toed into the pits but he wanted to race.

True F1 fans love to see this. Not the mathamatics and logic of F1 but a true out and out racer. He might lose to the strategists but nobody can question his committment and detirmination.

I can only go back in living history to comment on others that appeal like Lewis does and the list is impressive.

Senna, Mansell, Schumacher, Hamilton. They were the ones that just went for it no matter what the sensible option was and I hope he never changes.

[Daniel]

Thats what a lot of us like about Lewis. He is a racer that wants to win.

OK, he would be happy to lift the title but he goes out to win the GP first and that's what it's all about. He could (and with that wonderful Hindsight viewer) and should have tippy toed into the pits but he wanted to race.

True F1 fans love to see this. Not the mathamatics and logic of F1 but a true out and out racer. He might lose to the strategists but nobody can question his committment and detirmination.

I can only go back in living history to comment on others that appeal like Lewis does and the list is impressive.

Senna, Mansell, Schumacher, Hamilton. They were the ones that just went for it no matter what the sensible option was and I hope he never changes.
Stop making wide ranging judgements like proclaiming people as "liars" and "Not true F1 fans" because they don't see things the way you see them. It would have impressed me more had he just let Kimi through. What right do YOU have to proclaim anyone to not be a true F1 fan?

[BDunnell]

What I'm talking about is opinions like the ones voiced in this thread which blame McLaren when it was Hamilton who knew his tyres were gone and chose to go too fast. As I said when James Allen is saying something that makes perfect sense ("Why is he fighting with Kimi" JA the certified bonehead was heard to say) and the driver seems to be defying logic then you've got to wonder. Hamilton spilt his own beans and to blame anyone else would be silly.

I don't even see why blame has to be apportioned. This was a far-from-simple situation.

[BDunnell]

Stop making wide ranging judgements like proclaiming people as "liars"

Hang on — you just referred to Hamilton's 'half-truths' in an earlier post. To me, this is a euphemism for 'lying'.

[Daniel]

I don't even see why blame has to be apportioned. This was a far-from-simple situation.
I'm not saying we need to blame anyone but that IF anyone is to blame it's NOT McLaren as the choice to drive around that corner wasn't theirs and the thread title is silly.

[Daniel]

Hang on — you just referred to Hamilton's 'half-truths' in an earlier post. To me, this is a euphemism for 'lying'.
As I said it is half of the truth. He at first appeared to take responsibility then said there was nothing he could have done. That's all I'm saying. Different to accusing someone of lying ;)

[BDunnell]

I'm not saying we need to blame anyone but that IF anyone is to blame it's NOT McLaren as the choice to drive around that corner wasn't theirs and the thread title is silly.

Yes, the thread title doesn't make sense. But I still think undue criticism is being doled out here to either 'side'.

[BDunnell]

As I said it is half of the truth. He at first appeared to take responsibility then said there was nothing he could have done. That's all I'm saying. Different to accusing someone of lying ;)

As stated very eloquently on another thread, far too much is being read into every little statement Hamilton makes at the moment.

[Daniel]

Yes, the thread title doesn't make sense. But I still think undue criticism is being doled out here to either 'side'.
I've never doubted Lewis' talent and have not tried to say anything to that effect. Everyone has brainfarts every once in a while and rather than us backing up our driver by saying "No he's perfect it must be someone elses fault" we should just accept it ;) Sebastien Loeb crashed in Australia in 2005. He's as close as it comes to perfect but even he makes mistakes. I'm a fan even though he's not perfect. If someone's a Hamilton fan because they feel he's perfect then they're just setting themselves up for disappointment.

[Daniel]

As stated very eloquently on another thread, far too much is being read into every little statement Hamilton makes at the moment.
Perhaps but it's still legitimate criticism I feel :) I'm not going to get my tights in a twist and call anyone a liar for disagreeing with me though.

[Flat.tyres]

Stop making wide ranging judgements like proclaiming people as "liars" and "Not true F1 fans" because they don't see things the way you see them. It would have impressed me more had he just let Kimi through. What right do YOU have to proclaim anyone to not be a true F1 fan?

Daniel

You have got a bee in your bonnet somewhere about this that I don't understand.

I said you posted an un-truth, not a lie. An un-truth is something you are mistaken with as I pointed out and you accepted. A lie is something you purposely post that is maliciously wrong. I never accused you of that, just of being mistaken.

The problem is that you don't like people pointing out that you are wrong and start insults about sticking my opinions and sending PM's. Why? If you cannot see my point of view, just move on. All I did was post where you were mistaken in my opinion. Live with it.

As for suggesting you weren't a true F1 fan? I did not.

Perhaps I should have said that what I like is an out and out racer. I had no idea that you prefer someone that doesn't try his hardest to win all the time and just plays the percentages.

Anyway, this is getting off topic. I have tried to answer you in a polite matter but if you cannot accept what I say, then please ignore me. I would consider it an honour.

[janneppi]

Good job