A question for the conspiracy theorists

[tinchote]

(I asked this question a couple times in other threads, but as no one addressed it, I'm posting it here)

Many members are currently claiming that the WDC has been "fixed" for LH to win. And that every action of FIA and the marshalls at each race is geared towards this goal. With such view, I would like an explanation of why exactly there was not even an inquiry at Spa, when FA pushed LH out of the track.

When MS did a similar move a couple years ago against FA of all people (less agressive, in my view), he was called a "murderer" in these forums.
Anyway, why would exactly the FIA lose the opportunity to push LH even higher in the WDC, when they were virtually tied with FA?

[BeansBeansBeans]

I genuinely don't believe there is a conspiracy. If Hamilton had been punished for his actions in Japan, some would claim that it was an FIA conspiracy to keep the title race alive until Brazil. Ultimately, he escaped punishment, and now people are claiming that it's an FIA conspiracy to favour Hamilton. It's unrealistic to cry conspiracy every time the FIA makes a ruling you disagree with.

[aryan]

(I asked this question a couple times in other threads, but as no one addressed it, I'm posting it here)

Many members are currently claiming that the WDC has been "fixed" for LH to win. And that every action of FIA and the marshalls at each race is geared towards this goal. With such view, I would like an explanation of why exactly there was not even an inquiry at Spa, when FA pushed LH out of the track.

When MS did a similar move a couple years ago against FA of all people (less agressive, in my view), he was called a "murderer" in these forums.
Anyway, why would exactly the FIA lose the opportunity to push LH even higher in the WDC, when they were virtually tied with FA?

As an MS fan, you of all people tinchote, should know that some poeople hold a grudge against any winner. Their logic and justifications would escape me and you, but that doesn't stop them from whinging.

[BDunnell]

As an MS fan, you of all people tinchote, should know that some poeople hold a grudge against any winner. Their logic and justifications would escape me and you, but that doesn't stop them from whinging.

I think those same people have very short memories.

[tinchote]

As an MS fan, you of all people tinchote, should know that some poeople hold a grudge against any winner. Their logic and justifications would escape me and you, but that doesn't stop them from whinging.

Of course I know :) The point of this thread is to try and get this people to rationalize. We'll see if it ever happens.

[ZzZzZz]

It's called "cognitive dissonance". People emphasize everything that supports their position and dismiss out of hand everything that runs counter, and don't realize they are doing it. Hypocracy is the charge, but that would involve a self-awareness of the contradiction/irrationality, and I don't think that is often the case. It's a ingrained dynamic of intellectual laziness.

[markabilly]

It's called "cognitive dissonance". People emphasize everything that supports their position and dismiss out of hand everything that runs counter, and don't realize they are doing it. Hypocracy is the charge, but that would involve a self-awareness of the contradiction/irrationality, and I don't think that is often the case. It's a ingrained dynamic of intellectual laziness.

Actually what you are describing is more the actions of an apologist as noted by ancient greeks who simply dismiss or deny, rather than cognitive dissonance as such.

The Festinger theory is more of a pop psych theory of the 1950's or so, which dealt with people who feel a tension between two conflicting beliefs or have a belief and are confronted with inconsistent behavior with the belief, such that they come up with theories to explain away anything that runs counter to one's belief, rather than dismiss it or ignore it entirely.

Often the apologist does engage in cognitive dissonanace when he simply feels he can not simply dismiss or deny the contrary belief, indeed as noted by both Socrates and Artistole.....as well as festinger and such

[wmcot]

I think all the various conspiracy theories exist only in the minds of some of the posters.

[markabilly]

I genuinely don't believe there is a conspiracy. If Hamilton had been punished for his actions in Japan, some would claim that it was an FIA conspiracy to keep the title race alive until Brazil. Ultimately, he escaped punishment, and now people are claiming that it's an FIA conspiracy to favour Hamilton. It's unrealistic to cry conspiracy every time the FIA makes a ruling you disagree with.


As an MS fan, you of all people tinchote, should know that some poeople hold a grudge against any winner. Their logic and justifications would escape me and you, but that doesn't stop them from whinging.


I think those same people have very short memories.


Of course I know :) The point of this thread is to try and get this people to rationalize. We'll see if it ever happens.

Okay--you are all right.

There is no conspiracy. What happenned at the second hearing was justice without question, and Mac truly merited the 100 million dollar fine, loss of WCC, and Freddie the blackmailer truly deserved immunity, and to keep all points, and not only that, but everyone at Mac has always loved and worshipped FA, and will continue to do so, no matter what he or RD say.......and LH is a better driver than FA will ever be, who has never ever done anything wrong.....


happy now??


:rotflmao:

see what kool aid can do :beer:

[airshifter]

Of course I know :) The point of this thread is to try and get this people to rationalize. We'll see if it ever happens.

Tinchote,

Being that I've had my sig supporting Kimi winning in the Ferrari, yet give a solid supporting thumbs up to Lewis for his fantastic driving this year, I feel I have failed in supporting some conspiracy theory that justifies my position.

Should it be allowed, I will find some links that in some very basic fashion tie into a conspriracy theory that supports my position on the drivers and their standings. Having seen so many here on the forum, the most difficult part is finding an angle not already used by someone else.

I think I will base the theory on the fact the Jean Todt favored Lewis Hamiltion over both Kimi and Felipe. This was due to the untold story of the level of friendship between himself and Ron Dennis, and a favor owed to him
after a pub night gentlemans wager.

After all, what's a few hundred million dollars between friends? :laugh:

[tinchote]

Okay--you are all right.

There is no conspiracy. What happenned at the second hearing was justice without question, and Mac truly merited the 100 million dollar fine, loss of WCC, and Freddie the blackmailer truly deserved immunity, and to keep all points, and not only that, but everyone at Mac has always loved and worshipped FA, and will continue to do so, no matter what he or RD say.......and LH is a better driver than FA will ever be, who has never ever done anything wrong.....


happy now??


:rotflmao:

see what kool aid can do :beer:

I can (eventually) agree that that every decision made by the stewards and the FIA this year has been wrong. Even then, that doesn't make it an organized effort to benefit one competitor, as is implied by you and many other posters (and that's why I call you guys "conspiracy theorists".

[PSfan]

(I asked this question a couple times in other threads, but as no one addressed it, I'm posting it here)

Many members are currently claiming that the WDC has been "fixed" for LH to win. And that every action of FIA and the marshalls at each race is geared towards this goal. With such view, I would like an explanation of why exactly there was not even an inquiry at Spa, when FA pushed LH out of the track.

When MS did a similar move a couple years ago against FA of all people (less agressive, in my view), he was called a "murderer" in these forums.
Anyway, why would exactly the FIA lose the opportunity to push LH even higher in the WDC, when they were virtually tied with FA?


As far as the Spa incident is concerned, the FIA's hands where tied by previous Hamilton actions. How can the FIA even look like they are considering action against Alonso after all the criticism that Lewis received for his Start line antics... Remember Villeneuve questioning why LH hadn't been penalized for his Schuey chop emulation? You investigate FA for spa, You basically spell it out to the world in big bold letters that you are favouring LH, and quite frankly... the FIA are still trying to keep a lid on that little fact :p :

I also find it amusing that there are a few Lewis Hamilton threads that bring into light some MS incident... Does anyone recall if MS received this much criticism for his on track actions within his first 20 races? Hamilton's way ahead of the Schuey curve as far as dangerous tactics, and stupid ass moves, and as I predicted before, I'll say it again at this rate he'll probably be the cause of his own death... or someone elses... And the sad thing is, he'll probably still be regarded as a hero afterwards...

[markabilly]

:D
I can (eventually) agree that that every decision made by the stewards and the FIA this year has been wrong. Even then, that doesn't make it an organized effort to benefit one competitor, as is implied by you and many other posters (and that's why I call you guys "conspiracy theorists".



okay, i will agree that it was a disorganized effort to benefit one competitor... :D :D

[ArrowsFA1]

Why didn't the marshals push Hamilton out of the gravel today? Odd that, seeing as everything is being done to favour Lewis, and help him win the WDC :crazy: :p

[Juppe]

Why didn't the marshals push Hamilton out of the gravel today? Odd that, seeing as everything is being done to favour Lewis, and help him win the WDC :crazy: :p


It's not like they didn't try.

Lewis was just too deep and they could not move him, but they sure tried to push him out of it.

[markabilly]

Yeah why would any normal, non-paranoid person think that when RD referes to recycled drivers months ago and says:

"We were very keen to maintain the lead. It was so comfortable for him (Hamilton) to pull out the gap on Kimi that he gave the tyres a little bit more of a hard time. But Fernando and the two Ferraris stopped after him.
"I don't think we did anything dramatically wrong and neither did Lewis. But the circuit was considerably drier than the pitlane entrance. That's what made the difference."
He added: "It was easy to say, we could have stopped earlier, but would it have made a difference? Everybody had the same thought. Last year with Alonso, when he went onto intermediates, they immediately grained and he was extremely slow.
"All the top teams, Ferrari and ourselves, were trying to get through the rain and straight onto a dry tyre."

Interestingly, Dennis said that the team's focus in making a decision about delaying Hamilton's change of tyres was not in what Ferrari were up to, but what Fernando Alonso was doing.
"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.
"Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn't quite work out that way."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63139

[W8&C]

Yeah why would any normal, non-paranoid person think that when RD referes to recycled drivers months ago and says:

"We were very keen to maintain the lead. It was so comfortable for him (Hamilton) to pull out the gap on Kimi that he gave the tyres a little bit more of a hard time. But Fernando and the two Ferraris stopped after him.
"I don't think we did anything dramatically wrong and neither did Lewis. But the circuit was considerably drier than the pitlane entrance. That's what made the difference."
He added: "It was easy to say, we could have stopped earlier, but would it have made a difference? Everybody had the same thought. Last year with Alonso, when he went onto intermediates, they immediately grained and he was extremely slow.
"All the top teams, Ferrari and ourselves, were trying to get through the rain and straight onto a dry tyre."

Interestingly, Dennis said that the team's focus in making a decision about delaying Hamilton's change of tyres was not in what Ferrari were up to, but what Fernando Alonso was doing.
"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.
"Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn't quite work out that way."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63139I think you miss the obvious: leaving a rookie staying out on track while his tires dissapear in smoke already for a couple of laps was a blatant act of favouring Alonso by the McLaren team, only to gift him the WDC against the current leader! Be sure of more to come in Brazil! Finally we discover the true conspiracy! Guess Alonso still got enough internal knowlegde to continue his blackmailings. :D :D

And, please, don´t tell me I`m too paranoid now!

[BeansBeansBeans]

It's obvious that McLaren wanted Hamilton to beat Alonso today. Not because of any conspiracy, but because he was the only one of the pair who could wrap up the title in Shanghai. McLaren now have to travel to Brazil with the possibility of Kimi (and Ferrari) pipping them to the post, so I'm pretty sure they'd have preferred to wrap things up in China.

By the way, when I say that McLaren would have wanted Lewis to beat Alonso today, I'm not suggesting that they attempted to hinder Alonso in any way. I use my tin-foil to wrap my sandwiches in, not as a form of headgear.

[Tazio]

It's not like they didn't try.

Lewis was just too deep and they could not move him, but they sure tried to push him out of it.
In their haste to get Lew back on the road, in the heat of the moment Ron misunderstood the exchane rate. His offer of 100 million yen was taken as an insult by the marshals

[SGWilko]

Where are your Islets of Langahans?

[OTA]

Mac is so hipocritical it really becomes pathetic. With all the integrity BS and so on. They make fine racing cars, but they are not better than anyone else.

Cheers
David

[wmcot]

Where are your Islets of Langahans?

Right where they belong, thank you! :)

[Roamy]

does someone not believe the communications possible from the pit to the ecu on these cars????

If you don't pass the "Bong" please

[markabilly]

Some might see it all as a conspiracy, but all of you might be surprized that I, of all people, do not see any of this as a conspiracy---indeed the mac mess, FA/LH and so forth, is NOT a conspiracy


People who only conspire for their apparent beneft are not usually successful..they leave a trail and their motives become obvious......and the conspiracy will break apart over lack of trust and/or individual greed of the conspirators

People who manipulate others into acting for the benefit of the manipulator, but do so by convincing the others that the others should do what they have been manipulated into doing because they are actually only acting for their own good and not for the benefit of the manipulator. Those are are far more successsful, lasting often for years and years....even credited in history books as great leaders and unselfish heroes

Benrnei does not engage in conspiracies--never said that---manipulation, well that is another question

[Roamy]

Some might see it all as a conspiracy, but all of you might be surprized that I, of all people, do not see any of this as a conspiracy---indeed the mac mess, FA/LH and so forth, is NOT a conspiracy


People who only conspire for their apparent beneft are not usually successful..they leave a trail and their motives become obvious......and the conspiracy will break apart over lack of trust and/or individual greed of the conspirators

People who manipulate others into acting for the benefit of the manipulator, but do so by convincing the others that the others should do what they have been manipulated into doing because they are actually only acting for their own good and not for the benefit of the manipulator. Those are are far more successsful, lasting often for years and years....even credited in history books as great leaders and unselfish heroes

Benrnei does not engage in conspiracies--never said that---manipulation, well that is another question

yep I knew there was a "Bong" out there. Manipulate in the dictionary I have just has a picture of one Michael Schumacher with the thesauras version having a picture of Senna.