Fernando Alonso *merged*

[ICKE]

Alonso says title decided off the track



"I'm not thinking of this championship anymore, it's been decided off the track,"



The allegation that Hamilton's driving had contributed to the collision between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber in Japan was discussed late on Friday at a meeting of the drivers presided over by Formula One race director Charlie Whiting.


"The drivers' briefing has no purpose," Alonso said.


"You go there to hear what Charlie Whiting and the other officials say. Twenty one drivers have an opinion, Charlie and the officials another, and so it's like talking to a wall.

"It's better not to waste time and try to have fun in the car."

Massa :

"During this year many drivers have been punished for small things but one has remained untouched. It seems as if someone wants him to become the world champion."

"Kubica was punished without grounds when he touched Hamilton. The polish drivers was inside and it was not an intentional hit. Lewis, however, made some moves behind the safety-car. I think he should have been penalised for sudden braking and causing an accident"It seems the atmosphere is rather poisoned in the pitlane. Drivers dont feel that it´s a level playing ground anymore.

[TMorel]

It's not been level for all drivers for a long long time.

[F1MAN2007]

I am wondering what is the mood in GPDA if the rookie is seen like "untouchable".?!

21 drivers (except the untouchable) had the same opinion of what happened. But the so called stewards told them that they are wrong!!

I think the results are no longer decided on track, but off track.

[Valve Bounce]

Alonso must be a closet Pom; he's whingeing like one.
And Massa should remember that he unfairly got Alonso penalised for being in his way during quals when, in fact, Alonso was well behind. Then Massa complained about ant holding him up when he was going so badly that he could barely keep up with the second hand Honda which he wanted the guy to slow down considerably so he could pass. I really couldn't give a shyte about any complaint from Massa.

Obviously, these guys are jealous that a rookie is kicking their collective arses, and they are NOT HAPPY!!

[tinchote]

What do you know, the primma donnas are bitching that the new guy is winning. Sore losers :down:

Even if it were true that stewards decisions are favouring Hamilton, that doesn't change the fact that the rookie has beat them fair and square. After all, Hamilton was probably the one least involved in controversial moves.

And "variable-stewardship" has been around for years. Again and again we have seen similar situations treated in a different way. That's a general problem, and it has nothing to do with this year, and it has nothing to do with Hamilton. Two cars touch, and many times this is seen as a racing incident, and some other times a penalty is handed. How is this decided? There was never an explicit criterion established, and I don't think it can't be.

In particular, regarding the safety-car periods at Fuji, people here - and some of the drivers, even those involved - are talking as if every other previous safety-car period had seen all the cars running in a perfect line with all the cars always at a constant distance. You gotta be kidding me.

[rohanweb]

Alonso must be a closet Pom; he's whingeing like one.
And Massa should remember that he unfairly got Alonso penalised for being in his way during quals when, in fact, Alonso was well behind. Then Massa complained about ant holding him up when he was going so badly that he could barely keep up with the second hand Honda which he wanted the guy to slow down considerably so he could pass. I really couldn't give a shyte about any complaint from Massa.

Obviously, these guys are jealous that a rookie is kicking their collective arses, and they are NOT HAPPY!!



you cant be more clear anymore.
well said!

[Hondo]

I think what really bothers them is all the lean years when none of them could touch Schumacher. Then Schumacher retires and they start thinking they might be able to win now and BAM...in comes Hamilton, looking real unbeatable, and he's just a rookie.

They fear the lean years ahead.

[truefan72]

What do you know, the primma donnas are bitching that the new guy is winning. Sore losers :down:

Even if it were true that stewards decisions are favouring Hamilton, that doesn't change the fact that the rookie has beat them fair and square. After all, Hamilton was probably the one least involved in controversial moves.

And "variable-stewardship" has been around for years. Again and again we have seen similar situations treated in a different way. That's a general problem, and it has nothing to do with this year, and it has nothing to do with Hamilton. Two cars touch, and many times this is seen as a racing incident, and some other times a penalty is handed. How is this decided? There was never an explicit criterion established, and I don't think it can't be.

In particular, regarding the safety-car periods at Fuji, people here - and some of the drivers, even those involved - are talking as if every other previous safety-car period had seen all the cars running in a perfect line with all the cars always at a constant distance. You gotta be kidding me.

well said


Alonso must be a closet Pom; he's whingeing like one.
And Massa should remember that he unfairly got Alonso penalised for being in his way during quals when, in fact, Alonso was well behind. Then Massa complained about ant holding him up when he was going so badly that he could barely keep up with the second hand Honda which he wanted the guy to slow down considerably so he could pass. I really couldn't give a shyte about any complaint from Massa.

Obviously, these guys are jealous that a rookie is kicking their collective arses, and they are NOT HAPPY!!


genious

[Buzz Lightyear]

It seems the atmosphere is rather poisoned in the pitlane.

Only poisoned in Alonso head. What is this guy thinking.. Can he not get it into his thick head, that somebody can acutally be quicker than him?

He has only himself to blame for any breakdown with McLaren.

I simply cannot understand why McLaren dont sack him. He is decrediting the team he drives for. Maybe after Hamilton takes the championship in China, they can sack him after this weekend.

For me, I would rather see him suffer for another year at McLaren.. and get his knickers taken down again.

[Bagwan]

21 drivers have an opinion that agrees with mine .
The guy on the grid that was being dangerous in our eyes is the only one on the grid who thinks differently .

He wasn't punished , but , at least I know my opinion is valid .

The best Bernie could come up with was that it was a good thing because he'd carry the flag better than Kimi or Fernando .

Lewis should not expect any favours out there .

[Ranger]

I think they should film those driver's breifings... they could be very interesting! ;)

[Fallingwater]

Only poisoned in Alonso head. What is this guy thinking.. Can he not get it into his thick head, that somebody can acutally be quicker than him?What's all that nonsense? Does anyone really think Alonso's problem is Hamilton being quicker? I think it's the way it's happening, being both in the same team, a team that supossedly gives equal status to both drivers (you know, less laps in qualifying, used tires in Q3 etc).
Not many 2xWDC would expect to be the #2 driver in a team (which at this point is impossible to deny).
Alonso hasn't always been in the fastest car in the grid. Kimi was quicker the year of his first WDC. Michael was quicker and a lot of 2006 races... Honestly, it's hard for anyone to guess what it's like to be fighting for a WDC in a team that wants your rival to win and can at the same time affect your qualifying and race strategy/peformance to ensure it happens.
I guess it would be similar to competing against your Geography teacher's son in the schools Geography Bee. You know he'll have some advantage. :)

[Mikeall]

There were a lot of penalties given out in that race to Kubica, Massa, Liuzzi (under appeal) and Vettel (taken away). The drivers may be angry that the one thing they talked about in the pre race briefing was how to drive in dangerous conditions under the safety car. They seem to feel that Hamilton did not follow those guidelines and this eventually lead to a race ending crash for two drivers who were his main rivals for the win and probably feel some kind of punishment should be sent his way. It seems reasonable to me...

[markabilly]

well said




genious
Seems you forgot your own lecture that you deleivered to others when you started a certain thread---

[markabilly]

What's all that nonsense? Does anyone really think Alonso's problem is Hamilton being quicker? I think it's the way it's happening, being both in the same team, a team that supossedly gives equal status to both drivers (you know, less laps in qualifying, used tires in Q3 etc).
Not many 2xWDC would expect to be the #2 driver in a team (which at this point is impossible to deny).
Alonso hasn't always been in the fastest car in the grid. Kimi was quicker the year of his first WDC. Michael was quicker and a lot of 2006 races... Honestly, it's hard for anyone to guess what it's like to be fighting for a WDC in a team that wants your rival to win and can at the same time affect your qualifying and race strategy/peformance to ensure it happens.
I guess it would be similar to competing against your Geography teacher's son in the schools Geography Bee. You know he'll have some advantage. :)

the fact that it may be true is not important.....

you will never think that if you are a true fan of LH---that is called whining and conspiracy by FA apologists... :rolleyes:

[Buzz Lightyear]

What's all that nonsense? Does anyone really think Alonso's problem is Hamilton being quicker? I think it's the way it's happening, being both in the same team, a team that supossedly gives equal status to both drivers (you know, less laps in qualifying, used tires in Q3 etc).
Not many 2xWDC would expect to be the #2 driver in a team (which at this point is impossible to deny).
Alonso hasn't always been in the fastest car in the grid. Kimi was quicker the year of his first WDC. Michael was quicker and a lot of 2006 races... Honestly, it's hard for anyone to guess what it's like to be fighting for a WDC in a team that wants your rival to win and can at the same time affect your qualifying and race strategy/peformance to ensure it happens.
I guess it would be similar to competing against your Geography teacher's son in the schools Geography Bee. You know he'll have some advantage. :)

dont tell me he didnt know he wasnt getting sole no#1 status before joining?!? Of course he did. But his ego convinced him he could dispose of hamilton.

He was wrong.

Alonso has this smug, cool, latin temerpent, where everything appears cool on the outside, but inside it eats him up.

As Alonso said himself, you cannot both stop on the same lap, on every race, sometimes it works in your favor, sometimes it does not.

Alonso management flowed up if his only gripe is not no#1 status. If he wanted no#1 status, he should have stayed in bed with flavio.


Read this... he is out to cause nothing only problems..

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63092

[jas123f1]

I must say - that now when i have seen the video - i agreed with Massa and the other drivers, Lewis carelessness driving would be punished especially with thought of the weather conditions (45 sec. additional time should bo fair).

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x34nae_traffic_travel

[markabilly]

Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
Alonso says title decided off the track



"I'm not thinking of this championship anymore, it's been decided off the track,"



The allegation that Hamilton's driving had contributed to the collision between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber in Japan was discussed late on Friday at a meeting of the drivers presided over by Formula One race director Charlie Whiting.


"The drivers' briefing has no purpose," Alonso said.


"You go there to hear what Charlie Whiting and the other officials say. Twenty one drivers have an opinion, Charlie and the officials another, and so it's like talking to a wall.

"It's better not to waste time and try to have fun in the car."



Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
Massa :



It seems the atmosphere is rather poisoned in the pitlane. Drivers dont feel that it´s a level playing ground anymore.



Actually it demonstrtates that FA has limited IQ,

why?

Because if it took him this long to figure it out, he is really dumb or he has been drinking the kool aid--either way, it don't say much for his brain powers...!!! :D

[E46]

Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
Alonso says title decided off the track



"I'm not thinking of this championship anymore, it's been decided off the track,"



The allegation that Hamilton's driving had contributed to the collision between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber in Japan was discussed late on Friday at a meeting of the drivers presided over by Formula One race director Charlie Whiting.


"The drivers' briefing has no purpose," Alonso said.


"You go there to hear what Charlie Whiting and the other officials say. Twenty one drivers have an opinion, Charlie and the officials another, and so it's like talking to a wall.

"It's better not to waste time and try to have fun in the car."



Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
Massa :






Actually it demonstrtates that FA has limited IQ,

why?

Because if it took him this long to figure it out, he is really dumb or he has been drinking the kool aid--either way, it don't say much for his brain powers...!!! :D

You don´t look very smart either, with that skill to quote. Just an opinion.

[markabilly]

You don´t look very smart either, with that skill to quote. Just an opinion.
Don't really need to be to quickly figure this out, as in months ago :D

[Big Ben]

I just hope Alonso will leave the team ASAP. He deserves better. As for the future chimp-champ... he`s an a$$h0le. I want to see McLaren and their golden boy maintain their current wcc postion for the next years.

[Harm Kuijpers]

Like Tinchote said: what a bunch of sore losers and cry-babies. I think LH is one of the greatest talents to emerge since MS, if he hadn't been in the position he is now, he surely would've had a shot in the next years. He does what JV couldn't do, and let's hope he can do it for much longer. BTW, that reminds me when JPM hit the scene, he was showing the world that he wasn't afraid of established drivers, especially MS. LH is bascially doing the same, but he gets bashed, where JPM got praised. What a bunch of hypocrites. It's a dog eat dog world, and if you act like a pussy and whine about how unfair it all is, you wont cut it.

[truefan72]

judge for yourself,

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/06102007/58/chinese-gp-alonso-slams-mclaren.html


interesting quote there
When asked about his treatment he said it was worthy of: "Not a double champion, but a normal person."

and another gem

"Last year they were fighting to make it into Q3 and this year they are going to win the championship, and the truth is that the treatment has not been very good."

continuing his tirade

"I have spoken a lot with (David) Coulthard, with (Juan Pablo) Montoya, with Kimi (Raikkonen), and they have all left the team and found a lot of happiness. There must be a reason [why they could not find it at McLaren]"

and fianlly his grand finale

"I'm ready to do the best I can, to help the team, to have a good car and try to win races. But they ... things like what they say or do, or days like at Spa, or all the lies that they leak to the press, both British and German, to go against me.

"That, inside my own team...They must do something to improve the situation"


A trully special champion we have here.
A complete joy and wonderful person for any team to have


a $21million contract, the best car on the grid and an opportunity to win the WDC by simply driving are not enough for Alonso the 2 time WDC champion, afterall, he isn't a normal person.


These are his own words so don't blame the messenger

[aryan]

Reading Alonso's comments after watching the Chinese quali where he got beaten by Lewis fairly ON THR TRACK, gives an amusing tone to Fernando's comments.

You got beaten by a rookie in similar equipment Fernando. Not speaking to your team probably didn't do much in your favour either. That relaxing smile on RD's face after the quali meant a lot to those of us who know how to read RD's body language. He was absolutely satisfied with Lewis.

21 deivers had an opnion? REALLY? I was most angry when Mark was taken out of that GP, but when I ready Vettel saying that he wasn't looking in front of him until he hit Mark, and then I hear Mark refused to criticise Lewis's driving style in front of the stewards, it's hard for me to conclude how Lewis was at fault here.

[Harm Kuijpers]

Reading Alonso's comments after watching the Chinese quali where he got beaten by Lewis fairly ON THR TRACK, gives an amusing tone to Fernando's comments.

You got beaten by a rookie in similar equipment Fernando. Not speaking to your team probably didn't do much in your favour either. That relaxing smile on RD's face after the quali meant a lot to those of us who know how to read RD's body language. He was absolutely satisfied with Lewis.

21 deivers had an opnion? REALLY? I was most angry when Mark was taken out of that GP, but when I ready Vettel saying that he wasn't looking in front of him until he hit Mark, and then I hear Mark refused to criticise Lewis's driving style in front of the stewards, it's hard for me to conclude how Lewis was at fault here.Indeed, why would it be LH's fault that Vettel got distracted. Had he been paying attention it wouldn't have mattered what LH did, coz then Vettel wouldn't have taken Webber out of the race and we wouldn't be discussing it.

[tinchote]

Enough said :s

[tinchote]

Indeed, why would it be LH's fault that Vettel got distracted. Had he been paying attention it wouldn't have mattered what LH did, coz then Vettel wouldn't have taken Webber out of the race and we wouldn't be discussing it.


That's the interesting thing about all this. Had Vettel being doing what he was supposed to do during the caution period (that is, follow the driver in front of you), nobody would be talking about LH's driving.

The current level of hypocrisy and paranoia in these forums is astonishing :s

It's also interesting that from all the people crucifying LH for his driving behind the SC, no one mentions MW's driving. Let's add two and two: MW bashes LH for his driving in the media, but doesn't want to do anything formal about it: could it be because an inquiry would show that MW was doing the same, and more agressively? ;)

[Ian McC]

12 months ago Renault were trying to ruin his chances according to him, seems that things just haven't changed.

If he hadn't been out raced things would be different.

[SGWilko]

Its seems to me that Alonso is a little short on sensibleness this year.

In his little 'rant' he says that he was not promised no.1 status, but that he deserved better.

Well, I could understand that if Ron had not paid him his full salary.....

Alonso then goes on to say LH will be a worthy champ. So why is Alonso so upset exactly?

I think he trashed Renault with a couple of his 'rants' last year. I bet he actually thinks they [Renault] are slow this year because he is not there!!!

And McLaren are so fast because he is........

I really hope, over the off season, he takes himself outside and gives himself a stern talking to.

If I were Ron, just for that 'rant' alone, I would hold him to his contract (is it 2 or 3 years?) but not put him in the car.......

Oooooohhhhhhhh, I am awful.....

......but I like me!!!!!!! :p :

[markabilly]

Truth really hurts you LH fans, does it not, espescially when it comes from freddie the blackmailer..........

[tinchote]

Truth really hurts you LH fans, does it not, espescially when it comes from freddie the blackmailer..........

And what's the "truth" exactly? Now DC (10 years at McLaren) and KR (5 years at McLaren) say that it is not possible to live within the team? That JPM, that couldn't make himself comfortable at Williams, couldn't make himself comfortable at McLaren? :rolleyes:

What's the truth? That McLaren pays Alonso 20+ millions to have him play second fiddle to an unknown quantity? You gotta be kidding.

Please answer me this: do you really think that any F1 team (a company with a budget in excess of 400 million dollars) will want one of their cars to underperform? Do you really really think that a team can do that and getaway with the shareholders and the sponsors?

[BeansBeansBeans]

Alonso is obviously a driver who thrives on being the top-dog in a team, and needs constant re-assurance of his worth. Pat Symonds has always said that Alonso would go into a dreadful mood on the rare occasions that Fisichella beat him.

When leaving Renault, he clearly thought he was going to a team where he'd be the undisputed number one driver, the focus of the entire McLaren operation, with either a young team-mate (Hamilton) or an old reliable team-player (De La Rosa) playing rear-gunner and backing up his title challenge, but things haven't worked out like that.

I can understand his disappointment, but he isn't doing himself any favours with comments like these.

[ioan]

Even if it were true that stewards decisions are favouring Hamilton, that doesn't change the fact that the rookie has beat them fair and square.

A bit of contradiction there. ;)

[BDunnell]

The truth is that no-one — perhaps with the exception of Hamilton and his father — could have foreseen Hamilton's pace this year. I think a lot of people within F1 are in agreement on this.

[BDunnell]

EDIT — double post.

[aryan]

Alonso needs to take a vacation. Go clear your head and stop crying over spilled milk. I still believe in his driving abilities and he is still young, its not like the world has come to an end. He can still win many more WDCs. Prost, Senna, MS, they all had their off years as well.

He needs to stop ruinning bridges behind him. His best chances of another championship-level car in 2008 is still at McLaren.

I am not amused by his comments, but I don't blame him: he is young and passionate. I do however blame his manager/media advisor, they need to tell him to shut up and stop talking to the media, becuase it's not doing him any favours.

[tinchote]

I am not amused by his comments, but I don't blame him: he is young and passionate. I do however blame his manager/media advisor, they need to tell him to shut up and stop talking to the media, becuase it's not doing him any favours.

Exactly. When you are worth more than a million a race, you should be somewhat careful with your image.

[jas123f1]

That's the interesting thing about all this. Had Vettel being doing what he was supposed to do during the caution period (that is, follow the driver in front of you), nobody would be talking about LH's driving.

The current level of hypocrisy and paranoia in these forums is astonishing :s

It's also interesting that from all the people crucifying LH for his driving behind the SC, no one mentions MW's driving. Let's add two and two: MW bashes LH for his driving in the media, but doesn't want to do anything formal about it: could it be because an inquiry would show that MW was doing the same, and more agressively? ;)

Lewis is a good driver - that's for sure, but it doesn't chance the fact, that McLaren didn't play a fair play this season and therefore the WDC-title is not that valuable than it could be.
The spy scandal will never be forgotten – but if Lewis will take the WDC title also next season then maybe he will be accepted as a really champion – but if not, then will 50 % of people (and 95% of Italian people) be saying that he won because McLaren was cheating and 30% of people (and 95 % of Spanish people) will say he won because McLaren was cheating and Alonso fixed the McLaren’s car and the team was favouring Lewis..
So when Alonso leaves McLaren (as he probably will do) there will be lot of pressure on Lewis.. and probably he will get a team mate (Nico or Heikki) whom don’t like play second fiddle more than Alonso did so I think Lewis has a hard time next year.. :)

[Easy Drifter]

Both the current McLaren drivers seem to have a talent for opening mouth before putting brain in gear. Must be the paddle shifters.

[markabilly]

Both the current McLaren drivers seem to have a talent for opening mouth before putting brain in gear. Must be the paddle shifters.


:rotflmao:

[wmcot]

Alonso is obviously a driver who thrives on being the top-dog in a team, and needs constant re-assurance of his worth. Pat Symonds has always said that Alonso would go into a dreadful mood on the rare occasions that Fisichella beat him.



And he isn't exactly in the best team to get a consoling arm on the back or uplifting words when he has a bad day!

[wmcot]

I think they should film those driver's breifings... they could be very interesting! ;)

Or at least publish the full text! It would be much better reading than the post-qualifying and post-race interviews! It would be great to think of what the drivers feel about each other, not just what forum members think about the drivers...

[markabilly]

The real question: Is LH an only child? Or does RD have more children he raised like LH who he might wish to bring onto the team?

[Simmo666]

Some drivers simply fit into certain teams better than others based on their philosophies. I think if Schumacher had gone to McLaren and had to deal with a teammate who was as talented as Hamilton has shown he is, he'd be irritated by it too. Seeing as they didn't happen (wouldn't have happened you might say for several reasons) its only speculation though.

Its nice to see Yahoo! Eurosport didn't bother to publish the comments of Alonso saying Hamilton deserves the championship if he wins, as other sites have. Can't let that get in the way of the rest of the article. At least Alonso had the grace to say that, if nothing else. If he'd gone down the Montezemelo route of saying nothing but it being tainted it'd just be awful. Hamilton's just been the indirect cause of everything, not that he much had to consciously start it nor did much wrong personally.

But Alonso leaving might not be too bad for him. Renault are focusing on next year already, and I'm not sure the chances of McLaren managing to create such a reliable car two years in a row are, so him desperately trying to get out could help him really.

[ShiftingGears]

The real question: Is LH an only child? Or does RD have more children he raised like LH who he might wish to bring onto the team?

He has a younger brother, who's wheelchair bound.

I agree that seeing or hearing what the drivers say in the breifings would be entertaining, but the drivers wouldnt want that.

[Simmo666]

If we were allowed to see what was said in those meetings, they'd end up saying only what they'd say in the press conferences anyway. They need to be able to speak in private sometimes, as much as we'd like to hear otherwise.

[tinchote]

If we were allowed to see what was said in those meetings, they'd end up saying only what they'd say in the press conferences anyway. They need to be able to speak in private sometimes, as much as we'd like to hear otherwise.

So true. But then it would be great if some drivers avoided later bitching to the press about the meeting :s

[PSfan]

Speaking of the drivers meetings, I'm surprised if the majority of Drivers found fault in Hamiltons SC antics, they didn't have him Apologise like they had Schumacher do a few years ago... I would have expected nothing less... and maybe have him suspended from the GPDA...

[Valve Bounce]

Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
Alonso says title decided off the track



"I'm not thinking of this championship anymore, it's been decided off the track,"



The allegation that Hamilton's driving had contributed to the collision between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber in Japan was discussed late on Friday at a meeting of the drivers presided over by Formula One race director Charlie Whiting.


"The drivers' briefing has no purpose," Alonso said.


"You go there to hear what Charlie Whiting and the other officials say. Twenty one drivers have an opinion, Charlie and the officials another, and so it's like talking to a wall.

"It's better not to waste time and try to have fun in the car."



Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
Massa :






Actually it demonstrtates that FA has limited IQ,

why?

Because if it took him this long to figure it out, he is really dumb or he has been drinking the kool aid--either way, it don't say much for his brain powers...!!! :D


Hey!! you been drinking the same Kool Aid?? :eek: :eek:

[Tazio]

The real question: Is LH an only child? Or does RD have more children he raised like LH who he might wish to bring onto the team?
You mean like"The Boy's From Brazil"
(That are immune to the cool aid)

[markabilly]

You mean like"The Boy's From Brazil"
(That are immune to the cool aid)
Actually I was referring to RD having more children like LH that he has beeen supporting and "grooming them" to be a driver...not to Lh's unfortunate brother

[markabilly]

Hey!! you been drinking the same Kool Aid?? :eek: :eek:
No because I figured it out much quicker, BUT if I had been drinking it, I would still be stuck in the same place with the rest of you guys.... :D

[Ari]

Alonso must be a closet Pom; he's whingeing like one.
And Massa should remember that he unfairly got Alonso penalised for being in his way during quals when, in fact, Alonso was well behind. Then Massa complained about ant holding him up when he was going so badly that he could barely keep up with the second hand Honda which he wanted the guy to slow down considerably so he could pass. I really couldn't give a shyte about any complaint from Massa.

Obviously, these guys are jealous that a rookie is kicking their collective arses, and they are NOT HAPPY!!

Valvey.... at some point in time you need to realise that EVERYONE can't be wrong.

I mean, Bernie even had an article proposing his love for the wonder-child. Massa and Nando are spoton... there's one person this year who the rules do not concern. Good on them for having the balls to come out and say it.

[tinchote]

Valvey.... at some point in time you need to realise that EVERYONE can't be wrong.



Who's exactly "everyone" :confused:

[Tazio]

Actually I was referring to RD having more children like LH that he has beeen supporting and "grooming them" to be a driver...not to Lh's unfortunate brother
I was making a jocular referance to a movie where little Hitler's were being cloned by Dr. Mengila in Brazil. NOTHING ABOUT LEW"S HANDICAPPED BROTHER. Thank you!

[Ari]

But you don't expect to, as a 2 time WDC driver, come into a team as the #2 driver to a rookie. And on top of that, have think blatantly go against you to better the chances of the rookie.

YES Nando is having a super whine but I reckon he's entitled to.

[Ari]

Who's exactly "everyone" :confused:

The only "everyone" that counts, the other drivers.

[mstillhere]

What do you know, the primma donnas are bitching that the new guy is winning. Sore losers

I love your introspective assessment. See 1 or 2 drivers (even 3) complaining? Ok it could be that they are jealous. BUT, 21!!???
Not 2 or 1.
21???
ALL OF THEM jealous???
Do you actually read your own messages before posting?

PS Is Ferrari behind the 21 DRIVERS??? Humm....It must be!!! (says the McLAren fan) IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT! IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT! IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT! IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT! IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT!.......

[mstillhere]

well said




genious

I love to read about your COUCH expertise!!! :)

[mstillhere]

Like Tinchote said: what a bunch of sore losers and cry-babies. I think LH is one of the greatest talents to emerge since MS, if he hadn't been in the position he is now, he surely would've had a shot in the next years. He does what JV couldn't do, and let's hope he can do it for much longer. BTW, that reminds me when JPM hit the scene, he was showing the world that he wasn't afraid of established drivers, especially MS. LH is bascially doing the same, but he gets bashed, where JPM got praised. What a bunch of hypocrites. It's a dog eat dog world, and if you act like a pussy and whine about how unfair it all is, you wont cut it.

Were you saying the same things when MS was racing?

[mstillhere]

Who's exactly "everyone" :confused:

A l l

t h e

2 1

d r i v e r s

:)

[tinchote]

I love your introspective assessments. See 1 or 2 drivers (even 3) complaining? Ok it could be that they are jealous. BUT, 21!!???
Not 2 or 1.
21???
ALL OF THEM jealous???
Do you actually read your own messages before posting?

PS Is Ferrari behind the 21 DRIVERS??? Humm....It must be!!! (says the McLAren fan) IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT! IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT! IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT! IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT! IT"S FERRARI'S FAULT!.......

I do read my messages (and think about them) a lot before posting. In fact, a lot more than you seem to do.

It looks like you are acussing me of being a McLaren supporter. That in itself makes you look really silly :down:

In any case, how exactly do you know that 21 drivers think that LH should have been punished? Did they publish a letter signed by them all?

[mstillhere]

It looks like you are acussing me of being a McLaren supporter. That in itself makes you look really silly :down:

In any case, how exactly do you know that 21 drivers think that LH should have been punished? Did they publish a letter signed by them all?

I did not know that being a fan corresponds to an accusation. Mine was just an assumption.
PS Staying up for the race?

[tinchote]

The only "everyone" that counts, the other drivers.


Do you really think that the drivers are the ones to judge other drivers' infractions? Can you mention any sport where competitors decide whether another competitor violated a rule or not?

[Ari]

Do you really think that the drivers are the ones to judge other drivers' infractions? Can you mention any sport where competitors decide whether another competitor violated a rule or not?

So, speaking hypothetically, if all of the other 21 drivers stated they felt Hamilton did the wrong thing and should be penalised yet the stewards did nothing.... then there should be absolutely no course for question or discussion whatsoever?

hmmmmm

[tinchote]

I did not know that being a fan corresponds to an accusation. Mine was just an assumption.
PS Staying up for the race?

Let me put it this way: suggesting that I'm a McLaren fan feels like an acussation to me ;)

Any long-term member here can easily say where my preferences are. But even without that, in the last two months I've been often calling RD a liar and an idiot, and FA a spoiled brat. I don't really support LH, but I don't hate him as many here.

Anyway, I'm planning to stay awake for the race. But yesterday with the qualy I failed miserably. I fell asleep in the couch 10 minutes before the qualy and woke up three hours later.

[tinchote]

So, speaking hypothetically, if all of the other 21 drivers stated they felt Hamilton did the wrong thing and should be penalised yet the stewards did nothing.... then there should be absolutely no course for question or discussion whatsoever?

hmmmmm

Speaking hypothetically, of course that if 21 drivers feel in a certain way about something, they should be listened too.

But there are two issues: first, I don't think there has been a single ocassion where 21 F1 drivers have agreed on something ;) Second, all 21 of them have something to gain if LH is demoted/delayed/whatever; so you cannot really expect an objective judgement.

[mstillhere]

Let me put it this way: suggesting that I'm a McLaren fan feels like an acussation to me ;)

Any long-term member here can easily say where my preferences are. But even without that, in the last two months I've been often calling RD a liar and an idiot, and FA a spoiled brat. I don't really support LH, but I don't hate him as many here.

Anyway, I'm planning to stay awake for the race. But yesterday with the qualy I failed miserably. I fell asleep in the couch 10 minutes before the qualy and woke up three hours later.

Me too. That's why tonight I am going stay awake for sure. I just had a gallon of coffee. I think, after the race, I'll make breakfast for wife and kids.
COFFEE! COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!C OFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!CO FFEE!COFFEE! :)

[tinchote]

But you don't expect to, as a 2 time WDC driver, come into a team as the #2 driver to a rookie. And on top of that, have think blatantly go against you to better the chances of the rookie.

YES Nando is having a super whine but I reckon he's entitled to.

"#2 driver"? :eek:

What are you talking about? At the beginning of the season there was even talk of the opposite situation (i.e. Monaco). What happened is simply that McLaren gave equal cars to both drivers and Hamilton failed to make all the silly mistakes rookies make, and he was even more consistant than Alonso.

It's understandable that Alonso is pissed off that the rookie is beating him. But the fact is that McLaren is paying him a fortune, and the driver about to deliver the WDC is the driver with the smallest salary in all the grid.

[tinchote]

Me too. That's why tonight I am going stay awake for sure. I just had a gallon of coffee. I think, after the race, I'll make breakfast for wife and kids.
COFFEE! COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!C OFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!COFFEE!CO FFEE!COFFEE! :)

Good luck! We'll see how it goes :)

[Ari]

Speaking hypothetically, of course that if 21 drivers feel in a certain way about something, they should be listened too.

But there are two issues: first, I don't think there has been a single ocassion where 21 F1 drivers have agreed on something ;) Second, all 21 of them have something to gain if LH is demoted/delayed/whatever; so you cannot really expect an objective judgement.

I can't much argue that... hypothetically! ;)

[OOG]

Drivers cannot decide guilt or who's favoured on a team...they can have opinions and agendas like any of us.

The stewards, the Safety car spotter (copilot, navigator...etc) and Charlie bleedin' Whiting should ensure the parade is proceeding correctly and penalize drivers IMMEDIATELY for non-compliance with rules and expectations clearly laid out prior to the race.

They didn't, for 19 laps or so...tough beans.

If the team is favouring the other driver, win, shurrup or....MOVE.

Finally, please do share your opinions, all 21 of them, and we will soberly dissect them until you beg us to stop. I hope the guys at FOM come in here to see what great press their wind ups generate...it is fun isn't it.

PS I'm a Senna fan. Any Prost lovers fancy a debate on Suzuka? Flogging dead horses? Handbags at 3 paces?

[Kevincal]

judge for yourself,

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/06102007/58/chinese-gp-alonso-slams-mclaren.html


interesting quote there
When asked about his treatment he said it was worthy of: "Not a double champion, but a normal person."

and another gem

"Last year they were fighting to make it into Q3 and this year they are going to win the championship, and the truth is that the treatment has not been very good."

continuing his tirade

"I have spoken a lot with (David) Coulthard, with (Juan Pablo) Montoya, with Kimi (Raikkonen), and they have all left the team and found a lot of happiness. There must be a reason [why they could not find it at McLaren]"

and fianlly his grand finale

"I'm ready to do the best I can, to help the team, to have a good car and try to win races. But they ... things like what they say or do, or days like at Spa, or all the lies that they leak to the press, both British and German, to go against me.

"That, inside my own team...They must do something to improve the situation"


A trully special champion we have here.
A complete joy and wonderful person for any team to have


a $21million contract, the best car on the grid and an opportunity to win the WDC by simply driving are not enough for Alonso the 2 time WDC champion, afterall, he isn't a normal person.


These are his own words so don't blame the messenger

It ever occur to you that he might just be damn well telling the TRUTH!?

[Valve Bounce]

It ever occur to you that he might just be damn well telling the TRUTH!?


Yes!! he might be. Or he might just feel that is the truth. It seems that things started to go pear shape for Fernando from the moment Ron Dennis clapped his hand on Fernando's physio at the end of Quals at Hungary. I'm not sure whether Ron threw/banned the guy off the pit's area but I read somewhere that Fernando used to communicate with the team through this guy. After that, there seemed to be little if any communication, especially with his boss.

This is not a good working relationship. I just wonder whether Flavio would have him back in his team.

I find his current comments as reported here petulant, petty and precious. I used to think a helluva lot of this guy, especially after he qualified that Minardi at Albert Park; but his demeanor and personality does not do his driving/racing ability justice.

[Kevincal]

I don't see it that way at all. To me, Lewis is the one with the poor attitude and on-track antics...

[Mintexmemory]

Alonso needs to take a vacation. Go clear your head and stop crying over spilled milk. I still believe in his driving abilities and he is still young, its not like the world has come to an end. He can still win many more WDCs. Prost, Senna, MS, they all had their off years as well.

Not unless he is in a technically superior car to LH, we've seen what the balance is in identical machinery :D

[tinchote]

Just listened to an interview with Webber, where he said that his opinion was that it was 30% Hamilton, 70% Vettel. So now I'm even more curious as to what was the "unanimous opinion" of the 21 drivers.

[donKey jote]

judge for yourself,
interesting quote there
When asked about his treatment he said it was worthy of: "Not a double champion, but a normal person."
These are his own words so don't blame the messenger

His own words:
"No es el trato que merece no ya un bicampeón, sino una persona normal"
It's not the treatment deserved not only by a double world champion, but by a normal person [either].
Bit convoluted but he is not supposed to be the most lucid speaker of them all :)

Another version:
"No es que esperara recibir el trato de un bicampeón mundial", agregó; "simplemente, el de una persona normal. No merezco este trato".

"It's not that I expected to be treated like a double champion" he added "simply like a normal person. I don't deserve to be treated like this"


**********
But I agree, he should leave (have left) his talking to the track.
His mistakes this year, together with Hamiltons fantastic consistency, have given him sloppy seconds.
Bit like Schumi last year.
I hope it's not his last one too.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Valve Bounce]

Just listened to an interview with Webber, where he said that his opinion was that it was 30% Hamilton, 70% Vettel. So now I'm even more curious as to what was the "unanimous opinion" of the 21 drivers.


Hey Tin!! I'm surprised that he could see anything at all. If Hamilton dived off to teh right, and Mark stomped on his brakes later, albeit going to th eleft of the track, if Vettel could see anything, he could have dived in the middle - there was lots of room.

My take is that none of them had a clear view of what happend or where anyone was going under those horrid conditions.

[Mintexmemory]

Just listened to an interview with Webber, where he said that his opinion was that it was 30% Hamilton, 70% Vettel. So now I'm even more curious as to what was the "unanimous opinion" of the 21 drivers.

Typical of what they call 'Whingeing Poms' Webber was just minding his own business eh. Well he would say that wouldn't he

Just to rub it in the only difference between Jensen and Webber is a GP win :D
As for all 21 being anti LH, Jensen has just been i/v'd on UK tv saying LH will be a worthy champ. Couldn't say much else, he knows what the media and many fans would do if he said otherwise. His body language did not reveal any disembling though :D

If Massa is anti LH then he hid it well when congratulating Lewis on getting pole yesterday.

[F1boat]

I agree with FA and FM. It is obvious. Ecclestone admitted that he wants LH to be champion. What can the drivers do?

[tinchote]

Hey Tin!! I'm surprised that he could see anything at all. If Hamilton dived off to teh right, and Mark stomped on his brakes later, albeit going to th eleft of the track, if Vettel could see anything, he could have dived in the middle - there was lots of room.

My take is that none of them had a clear view of what happend or where anyone was going under those horrid conditions.


I agree with that. My answers were just geared toward those posts saying that all the drivers were unanimous that it was LH's fault, which it was not.

[tinchote]

I agree with FA and FM. It is obvious. Ecclestone admitted that he wants LH to be champion. What can the drivers do?

Oh yeah, BE is god and he decides everything :rolleyes:

[Dave B]

Guys! I can't believe we've just watched such an amazing Chinese GP and yet we're still banging on about the events of Fuji. There's a three-way fight to look foward to :D

[F1boat]

Oh yeah, BE is god and he decides everything :rolleyes:

He is not the god of F1.
But he is close ;)

[Tazio]

I'm thinking maybe he hasn't given up yet!

[truefan72]

I don't see it that way at all. To me, Lewis is the one with the poor attitude and on-track antics...

In your opinion

can you sse anything Alonso has done wrong this year?
Also, has Alonso's attitude been great?
Has Alonso complimented his team this year?
Has he been diginified in his non-wins this year?
When he crashed out in Fuji, did he go to his team and thank them for the car? Or did he throuw a tantrum and cause damage to the motorhome.
Has alonso tried to run off his teammate on the track?

come on Kevincal
what's the real reason you don't like Hamilton... be honest here

btw, explain to me how those comments are helpful to his own cause.

Honsetly. if that's the way he really feels, what incentive does anybody at McClaren have to even work with him. I absolutely cannot imagine how the team manages to deal with him.

Save Max Mosely, Alonso would be already be home in Spain contemplating his future.

Many drivers have lost their seat for 1/20th of Alonso's actions, attitude, and comments.

If you can justfiy all of his actions and even commend them, then I'm not sure what to say.

[F1boat]

Has Alonso complimented his team this year?


To compliment them for what? That they cheered only for Lewis?
To me, Lewis is the one who is disgusting with all the British media support and his own arrogance "I am driver number 2" /Monaco/, "I don't want Alonso for teammate" /Fuji/.
Please, truefan, acept that some peple feel that Fred was mistreated this season, and the Hammer was tolerated.

[fandango]

His own words:
"No es el trato que merece no ya un bicampeón, sino una persona normal"
It's not the treatment deserved not only by a double world champion, but by a normal person [either].
Bit convoluted but he is not supposed to be the most lucid speaker of them all :)

Another version:
"No es que esperara recibir el trato de un bicampeón mundial", agregó; "simplemente, el de una persona normal. No merezco este trato".

"It's not that I expected to be treated like a double champion" he added "simply like a normal person. I don't deserve to be treated like this"


**********
But I agree, he should leave (have left) his talking to the track.
His mistakes this year, together with Hamiltons fantastic consistency, have given him sloppy seconds.
Bit like Schumi last year.
I hope it's not his last one too.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

In that case Truefan, perhaps you should blame the messenger, or the translator, at least.

[truefan72]

To compliment them for what? That they cheered only for Lewis?
To me, Lewis is the one who is disgusting with all the British media support and his own arrogance "I am driver number 2" /Monaco/, "I don't want Alonso for teammate" /Fuji/.
Please, truefan, acept that some peple feel that Fred was mistreated this season, and the Hammer was tolerated.


let me ask you a simple question,

did they cheer for him Malaysia, Monaco, and Europe for winning those races
and the others prior to Hungary for his podiums?

I honestly want to know where Alonso was mistreated
please tell me where up to Hungary he was mistreated
and where after Hungary the team mistreated him?

In Monaco, did they not hold him in station?
Can you imagine what Alonso would have said and done if the roles were reveresed?

Don't look for conspiracies when all he has to do is look in the mirror.
He is the architect of his own demise at McClaren and nobody else.

oh, perhaps a rookie teammate beating him and leading the WDC.


Enlighten me and tell me if you were McClaren team boss how you would have dealt with Alonso all year long.

I eagerly await your answer

[truefan72]

In that case Truefan, perhaps you should blame the messenger, or the translator, at least.

what's the source, so I can verify those comments, 'cause I speak spanish too.

and german
http://www.motorline.cc/formel1/index.php/article=141475/=Formel_1_-_Grand_Prix_von_China_2007_-_Alonso_spricht_Klartext_-_darunter_sehr_viele_Giftpfeile.htm

[truefan72]

and french
http://www.f1-action.net/infos/article7266.html

[fandango]

I think a lot more is made of the comments by the drivers in order to write articles. That's just journalism, in any language. You only have to quote someone out of context to change how they seem, and the original article cited at the top of this thread does exactly that.

So if you're looking for conclusive proof that someone is a baddie or a goodie you'll find it.

[markabilly]

Yeah just cause RD says stuff like this, does not mean he favors LH over FA, despite all these overly paranoid conspiracy nut cases running around:


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63139

"We were very keen to maintain the lead. It was so comfortable for him (Hamilton) to pull out the gap on Kimi that he gave the tyres a little bit more of a hard time. But Fernando and the two Ferraris stopped after him.
"I don't think we did anything dramatically wrong and neither did Lewis. But the circuit was considerably drier than the pitlane entrance. That's what made the difference."
He added: "It was easy to say, we could have stopped earlier, but would it have made a difference? Everybody had the same thought. Last year with Alonso, when he went onto intermediates, they immediately grained and he was extremely slow.
"All the top teams, Ferrari and ourselves, were trying to get through the rain and straight onto a dry tyre."
Interestingly, Dennis said that the team's focus in making a decision about delaying Hamilton's change of tyres was not in what Ferrari were up to, but what Fernando Alonso was doing.
"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.
"Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn't quite work out that way."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63139

Note: "We" is always LH and Mac, fernando is always Fernando....

[janneppi]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63142

"I'm sure there's going to be equality," Alonso told Spanish reporters after the race. "One thing is how they feel, what they say about me, but what they do on track is a different thing, and usually they have had two cars that are exactly same, capable of fighting for victory.

"And that's what I think will happen in Brazil, so everything will be up to me.
My gods. the man is absolutely insane with his commments, how dare he suggest he's getting equal machinery.

[markabilly]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63142

My gods. the man is absolutely insane with his commments, how dare he suggest he's getting equal machinery.

Definite schizo, paranoid, multi-personality nut case, one day he is asked about equal machinery and the dark hint is made in front of everyone, he later says that there is a difference and he is getting the worse of it, and now this.....but when Ron says what Ron thinks that is contra to the official position of MAc, when Mac celebrates as Mac celebrates...then we know..... :s mokin: :vader:

[Kevincal]

what's the source, so I can verify those comments, 'cause I speak spanish too.

and german
http://www.motorline.cc/formel1/index.php/article=141475/=Formel_1_-_Grand_Prix_von_China_2007_-_Alonso_spricht_Klartext_-_darunter_sehr_viele_Giftpfeile.htm

No wonder you like HAMMY, you also like to toot your own horn... ;)

[markabilly]

When stuff like the following is said by RD, why do you think it matters what FA has to say, because it does not.

Either FA figured it out, or he is not smart enough, even when RD made the comparison between those with mac in their blood and those recycled drivers...around time of Monaco!

Remember also the threat from Max about the treatment of drivers,

Remember the contracts with all this so called equality language, remember if that does not happen, then the breach is on Mac, and not on FA, for damages...

All the more reason why when this is said from the mouth of Ron, what FA may allege is or say is meaningless


"We were very keen to maintain the lead. It was so comfortable for him (Hamilton) to pull out the gap on Kimi that he gave the tyres a little bit more of a hard time. But Fernando and the two Ferraris stopped after him.

"I don't think we did anything dramatically wrong and neither did Lewis. But the circuit was considerably drier than the pitlane entrance. That's what made the difference."

He added: "It was easy to say, we could have stopped earlier, but would it have made a difference? Everybody had the same thought. Last year with Alonso, when he went onto intermediates, they immediately grained and he was extremely slow.
"All the top teams, Ferrari and ourselves, were trying to get through the rain and straight onto a dry tyre."

Interestingly, Dennis said that the team's focus in making a decision about delaying Hamilton's change of tyres was not in what Ferrari were up to, but what Fernando Alonso was doing.
"The problem was rain and his (Hamilton's) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren't at all fazed about Kimi. We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.
"Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn't quite work out that way."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63139

:vader:

[donKey jote]

what's the source, so I can verify those comments, 'cause I speak spanish too.

and german
http://www.motorline.cc/formel1/index.php/article=141475/=Formel_1_-_Grand_Prix_von_China_2007_-_Alonso_spricht_Klartext_-_darunter_sehr_viele_Giftpfeile.htm

Verify those comments... I made them so that should be enough for you :p : :dozey:

"Er sei nicht als zweifacher Weltmeister, sondern "nur als eine normale Person" behandelt worden, lamentierte Alonso"
obviously translated into German from the "original" English translation. And your french connection implies it is translating from Autosport too n'est pas? :rolleyes:

I got the "original" Spanish versions here:
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Vale/callar/mentir/elpepudep/20071007elpepidep_1/Tes
and here:
http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/motor/formula1/es/desarrollo/1043562.html

Unfortunately, I can't find the audio that went with it any more (I didn't bother listening to it so I couldn't even recover the link from my browser history) ...
So now you can go shoot your messenger, your googlefish, or Oily for letting Wotsername out of his basement :)

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[mstillhere]

judge for yourself,

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/06102007/58/chinese-gp-alonso-slams-mclaren.html


interesting quote there
When asked about his treatment he said it was worthy of: "Not a double champion, but a normal person."

and another gem

"Last year they were fighting to make it into Q3 and this year they are going to win the championship, and the truth is that the treatment has not been very good."

continuing his tirade

"I have spoken a lot with (David) Coulthard, with (Juan Pablo) Montoya, with Kimi (Raikkonen), and they have all left the team and found a lot of happiness. There must be a reason [why they could not find it at McLaren]"

and fianlly his grand finale

"I'm ready to do the best I can, to help the team, to have a good car and try to win races. But they ... things like what they say or do, or days like at Spa, or all the lies that they leak to the press, both British and German, to go against me.

"That, inside my own team...They must do something to improve the situation"


A trully special champion we have here.
A complete joy and wonderful person for any team to have


a $21million contract, the best car on the grid and an opportunity to win the WDC by simply driving are not enough for Alonso the 2 time WDC champion, afterall, he isn't a normal person.


These are his own words so don't blame the messenger

And then RD rebukes:

”We were not racing Raikkonen, we were racing Alonso.”

(http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&PO_ID=41001)

If this is not divorce, I don't know what it is.

[Hondo]

"Today was a very good result for me," he admitted, "[but], although this result is a boost to my chances in the championship, it is still not going to be easy.

It's not supposed to be easy you goofball. Thats why they pay you $21 million dollars.

[BDunnell]

And then RD rebukes:

”We were not racing Raikkonen, we were racing Alonso.”

(http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&PO_ID=41001)

If this is not divorce, I don't know what it is.

Interesting definition of 'we'...

Not good.

[Ranger]

Interesting definition of 'we'...

Not good.

:\ Well...

[Ari]

And then RD rebukes:

”We were not racing Raikkonen, we were racing Alonso.”

(http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&PO_ID=41001)

If this is not divorce, I don't know what it is.


No no!! It's not happening. Just ask the Lewis fans about this place. Apparently there's no #1 driver and both are equal. In other news, the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny have been discovered to be real!

[mstillhere]

Interesting definition of 'we'...

Not good.

BRRRRRRRRR!!!! Not an happy family, there.

[markabilly]

And then RD rebukes:

”We were not racing Raikkonen, we were racing Alonso.”

(http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&PO_ID=41001)

.


He was reffering to a different Alonso, not "the useless, recycled, driver who I said wanted to blackmail me and I was stupid enough to hire, paying him 21 million, Alonso"
:D :D

However,
AS strange as it may seem, even in my wildest, sick, schizo, overly paranoid, conspiratorial dumb brain could i have ever imagined or hallucinated-not matter what i smoked or otherwise ingested-- that RD would say that, not at least while the wdc was still open...... :eek:

Clearly he needs to get back on his kool aid

[Ari]

"#2 driver"? :eek:

What are you talking about? At the beginning of the season there was even talk of the opposite situation (i.e. Monaco). What happened is simply that McLaren gave equal cars to both drivers and Hamilton failed to make all the silly mistakes rookies make, and he was even more consistant than Alonso.

It's understandable that Alonso is pissed off that the rookie is beating him. But the fact is that McLaren is paying him a fortune, and the driver about to deliver the WDC is the driver with the smallest salary in all the grid.

Sorry Tinch.... but in light of new developments in Uncle Rons quotes from yesterday I just had to bump this post! ;)

[mstillhere]

No no!! It's not happening. Just ask the Lewis fans about this place. Apparently there's no #1 driver and both are equal. In other news, the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny have been discovered to be real!

Like in any divorce,it's not just the fault of one person only. Both parties are to "blame'. I think that RD prepared the perfect storm without knowing it. He pretty much was clueless he was playing with a nuclear bomb. I don't know when exactely he stopped considering the two drivers in the same way (Monaco? Spy story? Blackmailing?) the fact is that LH clearly already has said that he'll be happy for FA to go away. RD pretty much feels in the same way.
And I don't think that Alonso is going to tolerate the fact (?) that the British crew (British media?) is supporting the British driver to the point that he fears his car being sabotaged by the British mechanics or even RD. That seems to be an other big divider. Is this picture too pessimistic or someone sees a reason for FA to stay next year?

[Ari]

Like in any divorce,it's not just the fault of one person only. Both parties are to "blame'. I think that RD prepared the perfect storm without knowing it. He pretty much was clueless he was playing with a nuclear bomb. I don't know when exactely he stopped considering the two drivers in the same way (Monaco? Spy story? Blackmailing?) the fact is that LH clearly already has said that he'll be happy for FA to go away. RD pretty much feels in the same way.
And I don't think that Alonso is going to tolerate the fact (?) that the British crew (British media?) is supporting the British driver to the point that he fears his car being sabotaged by the British mechanics or even RD. That seems to be an other big divider. Is this picture too pessimistic or someone sees a reason for FA to stay next year?

The only way I can truly reply to that is to say that I will be awake at 3am to watch the final round of the championship! :D Lord knows if Im sleeping before or after the race... but I just know I'll be watching!

[markabilly]

Like in any divorce,it's not just the fault of one person only. Both parties are to "blame'. I think that RD prepared the perfect storm without knowing it. He pretty much was clueless he was playing with a nuclear bomb. I don't know when exactely he stopped considering the two drivers in the same way (Monaco? Spy story? Blackmailing?) the fact is that LH clearly already has said that he'll be happy for FA to go away. RD pretty much feels in the same way.
And I don't think that Alonso is going to tolerate the fact (?) that the British crew (British media?) is supporting the British driver to the point that he fears his car being sabotaged by the British mechanics or even RD. That seems to be an other big divider. Is this picture too pessimistic or someone sees a reason for FA to stay next year?


only reason is they "out-bluff" each other

FA's comments are probably a way of negiotating--the last thing he should say is I quit or I am not staying, then all RD has to say is "done"...and tell FA, read whatever in your contract...you now have to take the year off......or whatever by your breach......

Instead FA's comments should be I am staying...with an occaisonal "great car" "great team" "I am treated fair..." ---indeed if LH wins the wdc, Fa needs to jump right up there and celebrate with mucho kissing on LH!!!

so finally, Rd has to say well, ok will you please go? What do i got to give you to go?..and to get out of this contract?

...Both are probably more worried about the "costs/benefits" of the divorce and who gets the best deal out of it, rather than if there are grounds for the divorce.....

So if in playing this game, they might just out-bluff each other and FA stays...a true stand-off

but I would think that with a bunch of lawyers advising each...that FA probably will not be there next year, with each later bragging about what a good deal they got to the public, no matter what they really think in private

:D

(but with Rd making these comments about who "we" were racing...he is only really hurting himself, because this makes it much easier for FA to argue equality is required by contract, therefore you breached, you owe me millions and i can go free...... hence why those comments...if I were his richly overpaid lawyer, i would be SCREAMING, unless some deal has already been done and we just do not know it yet

[leopard]

He might want to tell that using the equal car, Hamilton will drive in Brazil with that self confidence as high as at Shanghai that has sent him into gravel, waving up for the help of stewards and crane, just equal to it ;)

[wmcot]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63142

My gods. the man is absolutely insane with his commments, how dare he suggest he's getting equal machinery.

I think he was playing a bit of a game by announcing on Global TV that both drivers WOULD have EQUAL machines. His attempt to have the team make sure the cars are indeed equal. He's not dumb (at least this time!)

[janneppi]

Or that he finally figured out it's not the most sensible thing to badmouth your team before just a race if you have to compete against your own team mate. ;)

[TL]

U know what Alonso's biggest prob is..He never thought Lewis would do this well in his first season of F1....and got more and more frustrated when he noticed Lewis was proving race after race he was at least equal fast !

Why U think that other big champion (MS) stopped at the end of last year ? Yep to avoid this kinda situation (FA versus LH) knowing he would have to compeat with Kimi driving the same car !

At least that's how I think about it !

[ArrowsFA1]

Sorry Tinch.... but in light of new developments in Uncle Rons quotes from yesterday I just had to bump this post! ;)
And how about Alonso's comments (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63151):

"It's better to be silent than to lie, that's for sure," said Alonso about Dennis' remarks. "And that's something he should do more often and I think the team would do better. Many of the scandals McLaren have been involved in off the track this year have been created by his things.
"Each one has his own philosophy, he has his, and we all understand it. I have spoken a lot with (David) Coulthard, with (Juan Pablo) Montoya, with Kimi (Raikkonen), and they have all left the team and found a lot of happiness. There must be a reason."

It's impossible to see how either Dennis or Alonso would want their partnership to continue into 2008 given everything that has happened, and been said, this year :dozey:

[ICKE]

FIA is inspecting Fernando Alonso´s tires from the third qualifying session. They suspect foul play from the team. According to various sources the pressure was 1.5 bar instead of normal 0.2.

[Flat.tyres]

FIA is inspecting Fernando Alonso´s tires from the third qualifying session. They suspect foul play from the team. According to various sources the pressure was 1.5 bar instead of normal 0.2.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Usual pressure is between 1.0 kg/cm and 1.2 kg/cm 1.5 would bounce him all over the track and 0.2 he would have no tyre integrity.

Bar is almost the same as kg/cm2 and usually used.

[ICKE]

Sorry. I meant to say normally 0.2 lower. :p

[markabilly]

And how about Alonso's comments (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63151):


It's impossible to see how either Dennis or Alonso would want their partnership to continue into 2008 given everything that has happened, and been said, this year :dozey:


That should be so very obvious!!

But as I said earlier, the real problem is contracts (and maybe Maxie's threat about watch RD closely over FA to fix the wdc against the rule of no "team orders")...there must a certain manuevering around those points, and one who truly "breaches" first, will be the loser

Forget not the alleged "equality clauses" and so forth.

It can all be worked out so everyone goes away without much fuss, or it can blow up into a major stinking mess, where lawyers make lots of money, and drags on forever...

Or the parties may simply "out-bluff" each other in this game of who will blink first.....Proof, you say?

Please note carefully---
HAS FA EVER EXPRESSLY SAID I QUIT?
HAS FA EVER EXPRESSLY SAID, GIVE ME THIS OR I QUIT?

No, and for a very good reason--that is why he has no problem saying give me what I want, or I may turn over a certain laptop.....but he did not say, "or I quit"...

again such statements from Ron about who "we are racing", may be all the ammo FA's lawyer needs......

[TL]

we we we..I mean.....geezes! ;) If McLaren been treating Fernando this bad like several on here been complaining about....why is he still having a change to become WC ? Both team members being seperated by only 4 points after 16 races..what more prove you want of them being given equal changes by the team this season ? Actualy..if Fernando not made that "error" in Japan he would now have been in the lead with the biggest change of winning the championship...

[markabilly]

FIA is inspecting Fernando Alonso´s tires from the third qualifying session. They suspect foul play from the team. According to various sources the pressure was 1.5 bar instead of normal 0.2.


That makes no sense whatsoever.

Usual pressure is between 1.0 kg/cm and 1.2 kg/cm 1.5 would bounce him all over the track and 0.2 he would have no tyre integrity.

Bar is almost the same as kg/cm2 and usually used.
This is all I could find about that:

http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/gran-premio-formula-formula-automovilismo/dasmot/20071008dasdaimot_6/Tes

It would seem that this must be otherwise a very secret investigation that no one else knows about because it seems to be no where else to be found.

Besides, given variables such as tire warmers, racing speed affecting tire temperatures and other such things, how can one really say that such a small difference would really matter, unless all tires of both cars are examined at the same time in same exact conditions, and even with a difference, when one adds in the potential differences in the set-ups, a slight difference might be an advantage to FA, deliberately provided as part of car set-up, due to the other factors involving car set up....... :rolleyes:

[truefan72]

U know what Alonso's biggest prob is..He never thought Lewis would do this well in his first season of F1....and got more and more frustrated when he noticed Lewis was proving race after race he was at least equal fast !

Why U think that other big champion (MS) stopped at the end of last year ? Yep to avoid this kinda situation (FA versus LH) knowing he would have to compeat with Kimi driving the same car !

At least that's how I think about it !

TBH I think MS was more pushed out more than wanting to retire on his own.

but that's a whole other thread

I for one would have loved to so MS, Kimmi, Alonso, Hamilton all on the same track, Massa would have surely replaced fisi at Renault

[truefan72]

Verify those comments... I made them so that should be enough for you :p : :dozey:

"Er sei nicht als zweifacher Weltmeister, sondern "nur als eine normale Person" behandelt worden, lamentierte Alonso"
obviously translated into German from the "original" English translation. And your french connection implies it is translating from Autosport too n'est pas? :rolleyes:

I got the "original" Spanish versions here:
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Vale/callar/mentir/elpepudep/20071007elpepidep_1/Tes
and here:
http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/motor/formula1/es/desarrollo/1043562.html

Unfortunately, I can't find the audio that went with it any more (I didn't bother listening to it so I couldn't even recover the link from my browser history) ...
So now you can go shoot your messenger, your googlefish, or Oily for letting Wotsername out of his basement :)

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

You know perhaps you should consider that a swiss report, a french report and eurosport all have the accurate version and that the spanish press is reporting it in a manner best befit their hero. i don't think he made those comments without others in the media there with their own recorders,

And the exact transaltion in context from the german version actually states; That:" he isn't being treated like a 2 time WDC champ but only as a normal person; lamented Alonso"

Thats a swiss source for the german article my friend and if the French article suggests it is sourcing Autosport, then that provides yet another source with the same story. Nicht recht? Ich bin in Oesterreich geborn in Frankreich aufgewachst und insgesamt in 14 lander gelebt, also brauch ich kein googlfish oder andere sachen bitte

N'est pas mon frere.

[truefan72]

No wonder you like HAMMY, you also like to toot your own horn... ;)

...and back it up :up:

[Flat.tyres]

What I like is that since Fernando has apparently been hampered, he has closed up apart from when he crashed out of his own accord.

Unless you think McLaren paid him a fortune and hampered him from the off :laugh:

[Tesco]

I was told the other day that Alonso threw a fit after qualifying on Saturday. Is this at all true? If so, for what reason?

[Garry Walker]

I was told the other day that Alonso threw a fit after qualifying on Saturday. Is this at all true? If so, for what reason?

He broke a door at the McLaren motorhome and also broke his helmet. It was because he suspected that McLaren had sabotaged him to help The Golden Boy.
He made several comments about that later on in the weekend.

[BeansBeansBeans]

As far as I'm aware, he was frustrated with his grid position, and broke the door whilst in a temper.

[seppefan]

Remember he used to sulk and get stroppy when Fisi went quicker. I cannot imagine that many drivers would want to be his team mate. Kimi will ignore him, Heiki will be pleasant as Hamilton was initially before saying enough is enough, trulli will sulk, Kubica, now that would be interesting...

[Buzz Lightyear]

Rumour has it, that the FIA are investigating that McLaren over-inflated Alonso's tyres... well thats according to the spanish news papers.

[donKey jote]

You know perhaps you should consider that a swiss report, a french report and eurosport all have the accurate version and that the spanish press is reporting it in a manner best befit their hero. i don't think he made those comments without others in the media there with their own recorders,

And the exact transaltion in context from the german version actually states; That:" he isn't being treated like a 2 time WDC champ but only as a normal person; lamented Alonso"

Thats a swiss source for the german article my friend and if the French article suggests it is sourcing Autosport, then that provides yet another source with the same story. Nicht recht? Ich bin in Oesterreich geboren, in Frankreich aufgewachsen und ich habe insgesamt in 14 lander gelebt, also brauche ich kein Googlfish oder sonst andere Sachen bitte

N'est pas mon frère.

impressive :dozey:
You still don't get it though, do you :laugh:

I know what the German quote said, it was a literal mistranslation form the other quotes... Fact is, sources can normally be traced back to an original source, and I believe this time the audio was in Spanish :)

or maybe you think Alonso was translating the German and French articles into his mothertongue (Bable) when he spoke to the Spanish press :p :

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

p.s. I can't find the audio and I've lost the link... if you have it and it's not in Spanish, let me know and I'll lick your boots in 14 languages

[jas123f1]

Rumour has it, that the FIA are investigating that McLaren over-inflated Alonso's tyres... well thats according to the spanish news papers.


Sure, According to rumours had Alonso lower tyre pressure in Q3 than "The Golden Boy" :) - the reason for that is under investigation.
There is too much "strange things" this year - spy scandal there FIA declared McLaren guilty but did not give them any punishment and then after many protested punish them with enormous 100 000 000 dollar!! and McLaren loose their construction points but not drivers points?? which was absolutely illogical .. there was a sabotage against Ferrari cars and now latest in Japan there an email which did came to Ferrari 5 minutes after star!
Alonso is leaving (?) McLaren and Bernie speaking who is “worthy” as champion and who is not. The double champion hasn’t done “anything” according to Bernie and Kimi hasn’t any character which Bernie likes???

I think there is too much money and people has forgotten what sportsmanship is..

I regret if McLaren take any title this year – because it will be a title with "remark" McLaren loosed their construction points because of the spy scandal but of some reason (which no one can explain) were allowed to keep their driver points. If McLaren wins then the spy scandal will be there years possible for ever.. :|

[donKey jote]

Found the audio- he was talking to the SER radio station:
http://www.elpais.com/audios/deportes/Escuche/rajada/Fernando/Alonso/McLaren/FIA/Ron/Dennis/elpauddep/20071006csrcsrdep_6/Aes/

The plot thickens... not even the "original" Spanish quotes were correct :rotflmao:
But, bias aside, I reckon they correctly convey what he meant ;)

Couldn't be bothered translating the whole moan, maybe Oily could get Hotbikerchic on the job :erm:

What a waste of half an hour. Now I think I'll go and find out how to say "toot my horn" in Magati Ke or Amurdag :s

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[donKey jote]

here's his tizzy fit moan, in Spanish ;)
http://www.elpais.com/audios/deportes/Escuche/rajada/Fernando/Alonso/McLaren/FIA/Ron/Dennis/elpauddep/20071006csrcsrdep_6/Aes/
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Easy Drifter]

This is getting sillier and sillier. It is quite common for team cars to go out with different tire pressures. It can be the set up of the car and we gather LH and Fred do not use the same set up. It can be driver preference as to how the car handles. One of the quickest and easiest adjustments is tire pressures. If, just as an example, one car has a little more front wing you quite possbly would adjust tire pressures. Pressures are often adjusted from one run to the next. Drivers are routinely asked if they want more front grip or rear between runs while still on the track.
We are not talking lbs.of pressure just 1/4 of a lb. or even less these days.
The two drivers have different styles of driving which will affect tire pressures, although with nitrogen this is lessened as it is not affected by heat the same as air.
I am beginning to think we were better off before the internet. In the 'old' everything would be over and done with before the fan knew anything!

[Tazio]

This is getting sillier and sillier.
The two drivers have different styles of driving which will affect tire pressures, although with nitrogen this is lessened as it is not affected by heat the same as air.

Excuse me for being naive. Wasn't the knowledge allegedly gained by McLaren, relating to getting better tire perfomance by mixing a less inert gas with nitrogen, an issue in Stepney-gate.

[trumperZ06]

This is getting sillier and sillier. It is quite common for team cars to go out with different tire pressures. It can be the set up of the car and we gather LH and Fred do not use the same set up. It can be driver preference as to how the car handles. One of the quickest and easiest adjustments is tire pressures. If, just as an example, one car has a little more front wing you quite possbly would adjust tire pressures. Pressures are often adjusted from one run to the next. Drivers are routinely asked if they want more front grip or rear between runs while still on the track.
We are not talking lbs.of pressure just 1/4 of a lb. or even less these days.
The two drivers have different styles of driving which will affect tire pressures, although with nitrogen this is lessened as it is not affected by heat the same as air.
I am beginning to think we were better off before the internet. In the 'old' everything would be over and done with before the fan knew anything!

:D Yep... adjusting tire pressures, front to back, is a simple way to add or substract understeer.

:rolleyes: Nitrogen has been used for MANY YEAR's in professional racing...

replacing air, to inflate racing tires. Nothing NEW here... as air contains a fair amount of moisture (H20) and causes tires to increase pressure (as much as 6 to 8 PSI) when properly warmed up.

:s mokin:

[markabilly]

Excuse me for being naive. Wasn't the knowledge allegedly gained by McLaren, relating to getting better tire perfomance by mixing a less inert gas with nitrogen, an issue in Stepney-gate.
Yes there was some dicussion about how to mix gases in the tires and how ferrari did it, although those exact details as to how were either not in the emails or they were edited out (I gues) for secercy and to avoid give away this info....


However, there is this allegation that FA's car was deliberately sabotaged by having a slightly different air pressure in the rear tires (from what I do not know because I do not read Spanish too well, and an alleged FIA investigation into that--which is also what Easy Drifter was also alluding to---I suppose in theory one could sufficiently mess with air pressure and cause handling issues for a driver that would throw him off, but just cause the pressures may be slightly different---that would seem to be meaningless it seems to me, as well as something immediately correctable/changeable at anytime



This is all I could find about that:

http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/gran-premio-formula-formula-automovilismo/dasmot/20071008dasdaimot_6/Tes

It would seem that this must be otherwise a very secret investigation that no one else knows about because it seems to be no where else to be found.

Besides, given variables such as tire warmers, racing speed affecting tire temperatures and other such things, how can one really say that such a small difference would really matter, unless all tires of both cars are examined at the same time in same exact conditions, and even with a difference, when one adds in the potential differences in the set-ups, a slight difference might be an advantage to FA, deliberately provided as part of car set-up, due to the other factors involving car set up....... :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

This is a quick babelfish translation, that while crude, is far better than anything i could do in less than 30 minutes. (and Ron Dennis did come out as Rum Dennis, and FA is refferred to as "bichampion" BTW--I had nothing to do with that, just repeating what babelfish said)

Now I am not sure that even I would buy off on this....but here it be for whatever worth, even if only cheap amusement value...
http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/gra...asdaimot_6/Tes (http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/gran-premio-formula-formula-automovilismo/dasmot/20071008dasdaimot_6/Tes)


Max Mosley reacted quickly to the complaints of Fernando Alonso after the qualification. The president of the FIA is a staunch enemy of Rum Dennis and he is not going to him to pass nor one. In fact, to last hour of afternoon of Saturday it made him arrive his preoccupation through an emissary at the own bichampion. It does not want traps around the car number one nor that is harmed to him in its fight by the title. For that reason it has decided to open a discreet investigation that will maintain the tension on the headquarters of McLaren until Brazil. The data in writing of the pressures of all the games of tires used by the Spanish have been successfully obtained during the GP of China. And the numbers contribute still more to the increase of the suspicions. Of the ten games that the ovetense used, only two had the altered pressures. They were those that put to him in third and decisive part of the qualification. Instead of being to 0.2 pounds of pressure, they were to more than 1,5. Something that diminishes its adhesion drastically. This time the cause could be the overheat of compounds. The heaters were to a greater temperature of habitual, the superior thing to 90 degrees, and this generated the alteration of the pressures. Of there the final collapse and the loss of time. In Fuji the pressures also were bad, but only in the back wheels and perhaps by badly swollen. The heaters of the last race have sent them to England to analyze them, but, peculiarly, these things never happen to him in qualification to Lewis Hamilton. It is, with Hungary and Japan, the third suspicion of sabotage of the year.

[Tazio]

This is a quick babelfish translation, that while crude, is far better than anything i could do in less than 30 minutes. (and Ron Dennis did come out as Rum Dennis, and FA is refferred to as "bichampion" BTW--I had nothing to do with that, just repeating what babelfish said)

Now I am not sure that even I would buy off on this....but here it be for whatever worth, even if only cheap amusement value...
http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/gra...asdaimot_6/Tes (http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/gran-premio-formula-formula-automovilismo/dasmot/20071008dasdaimot_6/Tes)


Max Mosley reacted quickly to the complaints of Fernando Alonso after the qualification. The president of the FIA is a staunch enemy of Rum Dennis and he is not going to him to pass nor one. In fact, to last hour of afternoon of Saturday it made him arrive his preoccupation through an emissary at the own bichampion. It does not want traps around the car number one nor that is harmed to him in its fight by the title. For that reason it has decided to open a discreet investigation that will maintain the tension on the headquarters of McLaren until Brazil. The data in writing of the pressures of all the games of tires used by the Spanish have been successfully obtained during the GP of China. And the numbers contribute still more to the increase of the suspicions. Of the ten games that the ovetense used, only two had the altered pressures. They were those that put to him in third and decisive part of the qualification. Instead of being to 0.2 pounds of pressure, they were to more than 1,5. Something that diminishes its adhesion drastically. This time the cause could be the overheat of compounds. The heaters were to a greater temperature of habitual, the superior thing to 90 degrees, and this generated the alteration of the pressures. Of there the final collapse and the loss of time. In Fuji the pressures also were bad, but only in the back wheels and perhaps by badly swollen. The heaters of the last race have sent them to England to analyze them, but, peculiarly, these things never happen to him in qualification to Lewis Hamilton. It is, with Hungary and Japan, the third suspicion of sabotage of the year.
Thanks I got the just of that.
The question I have is, I thought I read somewhere that one of the real benefits that was allegedly compromised by Stepny's clandestine collusion with operatives associated with McLaren was that unlike the rest of the field, Ferrari was not using straight nitrogen gas, but a combination of gasses that enhanced tire performance. I want to say the other gas was CO2 but it doesn’t sound right. If they are, and FA was running a blend. I was wondering if a slight variance of pressure would be likely to have a more profound affect, to the negative!

[ArrowsFA1]

Rumour has it, that the FIA are investigating that McLaren over-inflated Alonso's tyres...
Setting aside that this is a rumour and could well have no basis in truth whatsoever, what would any of this have to do with the FIA?

[markabilly]

Thanks I got the just of that.
The question I have is, I thought I read somewhere that one of the real benefits that was allegedly compromised by Stepny's clandestine collusion with operatives associated with McLaren was that unlike the rest of the field, Ferrari was not using straight nitrogen gas, but a combination of gasses that enhanced tire performance. I want to say the other gas was CO2 but it doesn’t sound right. If they are, and FA was running a blend. I was wondering if a slight variance of pressure would be likely to have a more profound affect, to the negative!

As I said earlier, I could not tell from the FIA report as exactly what FA's email meant--except that there was some type of gas that ferrari used that Mac was going to try, whether nitrogen, nitrous oxide, helium, oxygen, methane (that ought to give some new meaning to tire blow up) or some mixture thereof.

Frankly, it would seem to me that this would be a foolish way to sabatoge a car because of the variability and ease of changing, correcting and so forth.......and really not worth what we have spent on it, but I guess it might be possible---

but I would think that if the FIA were really investigating "the weight of air" , then someone other than this particular newspaper would have heard/published or some other reference would be out there about it by now.......

(although I must admit, that being a sicko humorous type, that I find babelfish's transaltion of "Rum Dennis" and his "bichampion" to be a bit funny

[Juppe]

... I want to say the other gas was CO2 but it doesn’t sound right. ....




I also read the gas Ferrari was using is CO2.

It very well can be. Why doesn't it sound right?

[Tazio]

I also read the gas Ferrari was using is CO2.

It very well can be. Why doesn't it sound right?
The reservation I had about this chemical compound is it has two oxygen molecules per atom and, would be prone to expand substantially relative to ambient temperature. Of course I don't know the proportions. I guess if it was minuscule it may not make any real difference. Plus, I guess there could be a reaction in this combination that is more desirable than pure nitrogen. I'm not a chemist, so I'm only speculating

[Tazio]

I meant to say New Accusation by FA

"And his latest tirade against Dennis, who has publicly admitted he is not on speaking terms with Alonso, is likely to make for an even frostier atmosphere in the pit garage ahead of the season's final grand prix in Brazil next weekend."

"He is behind many of the scandals McLaren have been involved in off the track this year," Alonso said.

http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/news/alonso-in-new-attack-on-dennis-18312328.html

If not true wouldn't this be libel, Or is it too broad of a statement?
He went on to say

"I have spoken a lot with [former McLaren drivers David] Coulthard, [Juan Pablo] Montoya and Kimi [Raikkonen]. They all left and found happiness. There must be a reason."

Although this is irrelevant I would be curious to hear what these drivers have to say. Especially DC

[Flat.tyres]

I meant to say New Accusation by FA

"And his latest tirade against Dennis, who has publicly admitted he is not on speaking terms with Alonso, is likely to make for an even frostier atmosphere in the pit garage ahead of the season's final grand prix in Brazil next weekend."

"He is behind many of the scandals McLaren have been involved in off the track this year," Alonso said.

http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/news/alonso-in-new-attack-on-dennis-18312328.html

If not true wouldn't this be libel, Or is it too broad of a statement?
He went on to say

"I have spoken a lot with [former McLaren drivers David] Coulthard, [Juan Pablo] Montoya and Kimi [Raikkonen]. They all left and found happiness. There must be a reason."

Although this is irrelevant I would be curious to hear what these drivers have to say. Especially DC

Rehashed story with a bit more journo spin

[Juppe]

The reservation I had about this chemical compound is it has two oxygen molecules per atom and, would be prone to expand substantially relative to ambient temperature. Of course I don't know the proportions. I guess if it was minuscule it may not make any real difference. Plus, I guess there could be a reaction in this combination that is more desirable than pure nitrogen. I'm not a chemist, so I'm only speculating

Well, the expansion relative to temperature is the same for all "ideal" gases, so there is no difference between O2, N2 or CO2.

The difference is that CO2 is sligthly heavier and have a different viscocity, heat capacity and heat transfer coefficient.

Major difference is that CO2 takes part in radiation heat transfer, because it is able to absorb and emit radiation, which could play part in intertyre heat transfer.

CO2 in the temperatures present in tyres is not very reactive and less so than for example O2, so I don't think it plays any role.

[Easy Drifter]

I am not a chemist either but found the expasion rate with nitrogen to be negligible. Maybe the addition of another inert gas would remove even the small expansion rate left. Any chemists out there? We seem to have every one else.

[Juppe]

I am not a chemist either but found the expasion rate with nitrogen to be negligible. Maybe the addition of another inert gas would remove even the small expansion rate left. Any chemists out there? We seem to have every one else.

Nitrogen expands with temperature just like air, CO2 or oxygen. No difference there whatsoever.

[SGWilko]

I meant to say New Accusation by FA

"And his latest tirade against Dennis, who has publicly admitted he is not on speaking terms with Alonso, is likely to make for an even frostier atmosphere in the pit garage ahead of the season's final grand prix in Brazil next weekend."

"He is behind many of the scandals McLaren have been involved in off the track this year," Alonso said.

http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/news/alonso-in-new-attack-on-dennis-18312328.html

If not true wouldn't this be libel, Or is it too broad of a statement?
He went on to say

"I have spoken a lot with [former McLaren drivers David] Coulthard, [Juan Pablo] Montoya and Kimi [Raikkonen]. They all left and found happiness. There must be a reason."

Although this is irrelevant I would be curious to hear what these drivers have to say. Especially DC

I think FA wants McLaren to hinder him, so he can shout 'unfair play' and screw over McLaren. Why else would he trash his own reputation by continuing to bleat to the media.

At this rate, even Eddie Stobart would have trouble offering him a drive.....

[SGWilko]

I am not a chemist either but found the expasion rate with nitrogen to be negligible. Maybe the addition of another inert gas would remove even the small expansion rate left. Any chemists out there? We seem to have every one else.

Just bag up all the hot air from FA mouth and inflate the tyres with that. If he ever gets a puncture, the escaping air would go.....


'blah blah yadda yada yada boo hoo whaaa waa wa herumphh pyella'

[Tazio]

In a move born out of pressure from the Spanish press, The
FIA is providing an official to ensure McLaren equallity during the proceedings in Brazil.
Has anything like this ever been done before. I can't recall another.
This is a sad comentary on the state of F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63202

[markabilly]

Just bag up all the hot air from FA mouth and inflate the tyres with that. If he ever gets a puncture, the escaping air would go.....


'blah blah yadda yada yada boo hoo whaaa waa wa herumphh pyella'
:D
They would but are afraid that LH would want the very same for his car, and FA has already said, he ain't sharing nothing with LH at all,, :mad:

So that would leave the "I am cool" hamster to inflate his own tires, but the fear there, is he might actually have more hot air than FA and over-inflate...... :eek:

In any event, with the new FIA guy there with his tire pressure guage, checking Freddie's tires for hot air.......

[Roamy]

Fernando Alonso has signed a letter of intent to rejoin Renault starting next January (2008), according to emerging reports.

Germany's Bild newspaper said the document is the precursor to a definitive three-year contract (2008-2010), but only if the reigning world champion can successfully negotiate an end to his current McLaren deal.

[Hondo]

I'm telling you, if Alonso wins it and Hamilton isn't in the running, the FIA (Max) is going to find a reason to penalize McLaren and hand the title to Kimi.

[markabilly]

I'm telling you, if Alonso wins it and Hamilton isn't in the running, the FIA (Max) is going to find a reason to penalize McLaren and hand the title to Kimi.


Of course, in keeping with tradional notions of justice and fair play as demonstrated over the years

[Juppe]

I'm telling you, if Alonso wins it and Hamilton isn't in the running, the FIA (Max) is going to find a reason to penalize McLaren and hand the title to Kimi.

No, no you got it wrong... Fernando is Max' new best friend for bringing down McLaren. He has promised to protect Alonso's rights within the team.

Max knows that Alonso winning the WDC would piss Ron off even more than kimi winning it, so that is what Max is hoping for.

[donKey jote]

'blah blah yadda yada yada boo hoo whaaa waa wa herumphh pyella'
I expect you mean paella :rolleyes:

I wonder if Lewis ever listened to Frank Zappa... he'll do anything to get "ahead", but does he lay awake at night saying "thank you Fred" ? :dozey:

[truefan72]

Fernando Alonso has signed a letter of intent to rejoin Renault starting next January (2008), according to emerging reports.

Germany's Bild newspaper said the document is the precursor to a definitive three-year contract (2008-2010), but only if the reigning world champion can successfully negotiate an end to his current McLaren deal.

Well isn't that a breach of his current contract and grounds for his immediate dismissal?

if a team pays you $21 mill and while under contract you sign up with a rival, would that not constitute a breach of contract.

ANYWAY it wouldn't surprise me if he goes to Renault, but I am quite interested to see how Heike or Nelson react to that. Perhaps that's why they kept an option on fisichella's contract. But even he might say, I'd rather retire than go through that BS again. Who knows, Renault might just run one car next year.

I'ts not going to be all hugs and kisses next year if either Heike or NPJr stays. I'm not surte either is ready or willing to take a major backseat in the team to satisfy Alonso's ego and fragile phsyche.

[trumperZ06]

;) Someone like Fisi or Rubens... would work better with Alonso !!! Both are used to playing second fiddle... and their best years are behind them !

:D Any Young Gun will be shooting to beat Alfredo... team orders or not !!!

:s mokin:

[Valve Bounce]

Well isn't that a breach of his current contract and grounds for his immediate dismissal?

if a team pays you $21 mill and while under contract you sign up with a rival, would that not constitute a breach of contract.

ANYWAY it wouldn't surprise me if he goes to Renault, but I am quite interested to see how Heike or Nelson react to that. Perhaps that's why they kept an option on fisichella's contract. But even he might say, I'd rather retire than go through that BS again. Who knows, Renault might just run one car next year.

I'ts not going to be all hugs and kisses next year if either Heike or NPJr stays. I'm not surte either is ready or willing to take a major backseat in the team to satisfy Alonso's ego and fragile phsyche.

A letter of intent is not a contract.

To the other posters, a gas will expand 1/273 of it's volume per degree centrigade ( I think) if the pressure remained constant. However if the pressure is not constant, then P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2, according to a combination of Charle's Law and Boyles' Law. However, if you consider Einstein's theory of relativity to the speed of the vehicle travelling, then the above laws may become null and void as the vehicle approaches the speed of light. :eek:

For further information, please contact NAASA.

[grantb4]

The whole discussion between PDLR and FA regarding the tyre gas is so pointless. I can remember 10 years ago in my karting league that everyone at that level had already experimented with various gases. You can bet now every race team up the ladder from karting to F1 has played with this stuff to much greater degrees so the revelation here is nonexistent. That PDLR and FA even found it significant is the only mystery. Surely McLaren had already played with all conceivable variables.

What I found more interesting is how so early in the scandal that Flavio said it would have helped him to know the weight distribution of the Ferrari. That was weeks or months before WE got wind of the driver emails.

The saddest thing is that McLaren didn't (couldn't?) fire PDLR and FA for being such idiots.

[markabilly]

The whole discussion between PDLR and FA regarding the tyre gas is so pointless. I can remember 10 years ago in my karting league that everyone at that level had already experimented with various gases. You can bet now every race team up the ladder from karting to F1 has played with this stuff to much greater degrees so the revelation here is nonexistent. That PDLR and FA even found it significant is the only mystery. Surely McLaren had already played with all conceivable variables.

What I found more interesting is how so early in the scandal that Flavio said it would have helped him to know the weight distribution of the Ferrari. That was weeks or months before WE got wind of the driver emails.

The saddest thing is that McLaren didn't (couldn't?) fire PDLR and FA for being such idiots.
If mac were firing idiots, they would need to start with Rum Dennis :D

The email referenced what MS wanted to test, not the drivers..... :rolleyes: