Crossrail

[oily oaf]

After 750 years in the planning stages Crossrail, a combined underground and mainline line rail link across London costing 16 billion sovs has finally been given the green light by HM Government.
Now before people the length and breadth of Britain start banging on about how "London gets everything" can I just say 2 things?

a) It's not my fault

and

b) I'll be dead before it's finished


Oh and anything that gives the ailing and much maligned engineering industry in this country an almighty shot in the arm and creates 30,000 new jobs is OK by me.

As you were :)

[Drew]

I heard somewhere that there'd be 24 trains an hour, that's alot of trains!

[jim mcglinchey]

El Gordo can rely on your vote then Oily?

[oily oaf]

I heard somewhere that there'd be 24 trains an hour, that's alot of trains!

An understandable but key error there Drew old chap.
What they said was you'd be 24 hours in a train.


Jim. Arf! Listen mate if you sliced me up like a cucumber, and many have tried btw, you'd find "Vote Labour" stamped all the way through like a stick of Southend rock ;)

(doffs red beret and raises clenched fist into air)
FREEDOM FOR TOOTING!

[Curryhead]

(doffs red beret and raises clenched fist into air)
FREEDOM FOR TOOTING!

don't wish to be picky here Oily, but Wolfie Smiths beret was black, and he was'nt really from Tooting, hes from Ilkeston, right here in the very heart of Derbyshire :)

[Mark]

The thing that gets me is that Manchester and Leeds were both wanting relatively small amounts of money for their tram systems and they were refused. But this gets the go ahead.

[Dave B]

Because it will cut eight seconds off the journey time from Heathrow to the 2012 Olympics, of course :p

[Hazell B]

.... creates 30,000 new jobs .....

What a load of utter and complete poo :mark:

30,000 new jobs from a simple rail link? I don't think so. How do they come up with these figures, I wonder? :s
Even if it's anywhere near true, wouldn't all those people wanting homes just add to the high cost of living in the areas that are already too costly to buy a home in? Why not stick those new jobs somewhere that could do with a boost (where was that ex-Rover plant, again?) and halve the cost of building a new rail link there?

Sorry Oily, but from where most of the UK is looking, it's a heap of cash for something we don't want or need. Rather like everyone having to put a fiver in for a present when an already overpaid boss we don't like is leaving :p :

[LiamM]

don't wish to be picky here Oily, but Wolfie Smiths beret was black, and he was'nt really from Tooting, hes from Ilkeston, right here in the very heart of Derbyshire :)

If your gonna spilt hairs like that, Ilkeston isnt in the heart of Derbyshire, and if you ask Mr Browns Office of Statistics, it's apparently in Nottingham

Back on topic do we really need this? I took a trip to London recently, got myself an Oyster card and the buses and tube worked just fine. Instead of spending £16 million on a new train line, why not spend it on the roads to help cut congestion and air pollution. Do this and new rail links not be needs 'cos people can easily catch a bus (or coach) across London

[PuddleJumper]

Because it will cut eight seconds off the journey time from Heathrow to the 2012 Olympics, of course :p
All well and good, except it won't open until 5 years after the Olympics. :p :

[BrentJackson]

I think such a system is a good idea for a number of reasons. First off, anything that decreases traffic congestion is ALWAYS a good thing, is it not? And new roads is kinda hard to do in a city the size of London, is it not?

[BDunnell]

The thing that gets me is that Manchester and Leeds were both wanting relatively small amounts of money for their tram systems and they were refused. But this gets the go ahead.

Tram projects have been rejected in London too.

[BDunnell]

I think such a system is a good idea for a number of reasons. First off, anything that decreases traffic congestion is ALWAYS a good thing, is it not? And new roads is kinda hard to do in a city the size of London, is it not?

Yes and yes.

This project hasn't just been dreamed up for the hell of it. There are all sorts of reasons why this is necessary, congestion on existing routes being a primary one. It will certainly plug a big gap in London's transport provision and make certain journeys much, much easier. However, the claim of 30,000 jobs is ridiculous. These things are always overstated.

[Rollo]

Instead of spending £16 million on a new train line, why not spend it on the roads to help cut congestion and air pollution.

One tube train on average takes 500 cars off the roads in the first place which in theory saves on pollution and most certainly congestion.

Building infrastructure generally shows forthought and planning on the part of government and as Mr Jackson has pointed out, you can't really build any new roads through the capital anyway, hence the reason for the underground in the first place.

[oily oaf]

One tube train on average takes 500 cars off the roads in the first place which in theory saves on pollution and most certainly congestion.

Building infrastructure generally shows forthought and planning on the part of government and as Mr Jackson has pointed out, you can't really build any new roads through the capital anyway, hence the reason for the underground in the first place.

Mr Jackson = Sensible Canadian type chappie with a rather excellent matinee idol name and who probably enjoys watching open wheel motor racing in which the cars have been known on occasion to overtake one another. :eek:

Hehehehe I had the feeling this one would ruffle the feathers of the non London dwelling populace :D I can hear the blood thundering in your temples folks.
I tell ya what though, I bet that famous old railway buff and cloth cap wearing Northern bloke Fred Dibnah would have been all in favour.
'E liked a bit of engineering did Fred :)

(blows long blast on steam whistle, lights pipe and settles down to watch a History Channel Special in which Londoners are widely implicated in the onset of Global Warming, the shifting of the tectonic plates, Stalin's Great Terror, The Tsunami, The Holocaust, Scotland's failure to do quite well in the football World Cup, the slow destruction of The Great Barrier Reef, Australians, famine in Africa, the awarding of a recording contract to The Cheeky Girls, the attempted assassination ofJ R Ewing, the rise of fascism in 1930s Spain and Noel Edmunds).
Persecution complex? Moi? ;)

[Curryhead]

If your gonna spilt hairs like that, Ilkeston isnt in the heart of Derbyshire, and if you ask Mr Browns Office of Statistics, it's apparently in Nottingham

Back on topic do we really need this? I took a trip to London recently, got myself an Oyster card and the buses and tube worked just fine. Instead of spending £16 million on a new train line, why not spend it on the roads to help cut congestion and air pollution. Do this and new rail links not be needs 'cos people can easily catch a bus (or coach) across London

Split hairs, me? nah, I was having a joke with Oily. Not sure about Mr Browns Office of Statistics, but I do know the towns folk of Ilson would have some thing to say about the county they think they live in :p

[Azumanga Davo]

16 mill sterling eh? That seems very cheap for a railway line.

Maybe Mark can tell me this fact is right, but wasn't the Tyne and Wear Metro somewhere in the region of 180 million back in the 80s? And they already had track going round...

[oily oaf]

16 mill sterling eh? That seems very cheap for a railway line.

Maybe Mark can tell me this fact is right, but wasn't the Tyne and Wear Metro somewhere in the region of 180 million back in the 80s? And they already had track going round...

16 BILLION Beemer old chap.
Cheap at 'alf the price IMHO ;)

Curryhead. Wolfie Smiff not a Cockney?!!!!!!
Be'ave yerself! You'll be telling me next that Del Boy was born in Leighton Buzzard and that Her Majesty The Queen comes from a long line of bloody Germans :mad:

[Mark]

16 mill sterling eh? That seems very cheap for a railway line.

Oooh you missed some zero's my old mucker, you can hardly get a grade seperated junction for that sort of cost these days.



Maybe Mark can tell me this fact is right, but wasn't the Tyne and Wear Metro somewhere in the region of 180 million back in the 80s? And they already had track going round...

Most of the track was existing outside of the city, but through Newcastle and Gateshead they had to bore new tunnels, build a new bridge across the Tyne, and a new viaduct past Byker. Some existing track was used but it was far from being just a simple matter of converting existing lines.

[Dave B]

What a load of utter and complete poo :mark:

30,000 new jobs from a simple rail link? I don't think so. How do they come up with these figures, I wonder? :s
You don't use London railways much, do you? It's 2000 jobs building the thing, then 28000 people employed to clean the graffiti off! :p

[Mark]

What a load of utter and complete poo :mark:

30,000 new jobs from a simple rail link? I don't think so. How do they come up with these figures, I wonder? :s
Even if it's anywhere near true, wouldn't all those people wanting homes just add to the high cost of living in the areas that are already too costly to buy a home in? Why not stick those new jobs somewhere that could do with a boost (where was that ex-Rover plant, again?) and halve the cost of building a new rail link there?


It's the age old problem, you have an area of high demand, then you succumb to that demand and build more houses and thus the demand grows exponentially.

It would be nice just to build a load of new houses in a previously unpopulated area, but of course people need jobs, and those jobs tend to be in London, you just get people commuting in instead, and so the cycle continues :s

[BDunnell]

Encouraging people to work from home would be a good start.

[Daniel]

Encouraging people to work from home would be a good start.
Encouraging employers to have non-standard hours and staggered starts would help too. Plus from the look of it a lot of roads are only busy in one direction at one time of the day. How about encouraging people not to work in the big population centres. They did that in Perth with having a "satellite" city and it's helped with traffic issues as people aren't all going the same way at the same time.

[BDunnell]

Encouraging employers to have non-standard hours and staggered starts would help too.

Indeed it would, though this has become more normal anyway.


Plus from the look of it a lot of roads are only busy in one direction at one time of the day.

As are a lot of trains.


How about encouraging people not to work in the big population centres. They did that in Perth with having a "satellite" city and it's helped with traffic issues as people aren't all going the same way at the same time.

With the London commuter belt having expanded so much over the years, the impact of doing this may have been reduced. In any case, many large companies have chosen to locate their main premises in nearby towns in the south-east like Reading and Slough, and traffic congestion in those places can itself be bad. Building new towns isn't really an option anywhere, either.

[Daniel]

Not necessarily. Doesn't need to be new towns either. If people are travelling 50 miles East to go to London then make them travel 50 miles West :) The place I work in could be in London but it isn't and I suspect that's because of subsidies from the Welsh assembly to get businesses to set up shop in Wales. A few years ago there would have been nothing here and now there's a business park and houses and a lot of people who would have been travelling to Liverpool, Chester and Manchester don't :) I was lucky enough when I was living in Perth to be able to get the train in the whole way or get dropped off close to work and take the bus to work. If I'd had to drive to my job (in the middle of Perth) it would have been horrid.

[Hazell B]

As Dave's explained it so well, I shall change my tune and sing it's praises in York Minster on sunday.

28,000 graffiti removal personnel sounds a superb way to spend our cash. They'll need the minimum wage plus a tenner, what with heroin being so expensive darn sarf :p :

[BDunnell]

Not necessarily. Doesn't need to be new towns either. If people are travelling 50 miles East to go to London then make them travel 50 miles West :)

They are already doing so.

[Daniel]

They are already doing so.
Can you not use that as an answer to everything please :p Let me have at least one valid point which hasn't already been put into place :mark:

[Malbec]

The thing that gets me is that Manchester and Leeds were both wanting relatively small amounts of money for their tram systems and they were refused. But this gets the go ahead.

Because sometimes, just sometimes, we Londoners like to have our tax money spent on ourselves for a change :P

[BDunnell]

Can you not use that as an answer to everything please :p Let me have at least one valid point which hasn't already been put into place :mark:

Excuse me, but is there any need to be quite so confrontational all the time? What I just said was a perfectly reasonable comment, and I don't think it requires any further explanation.

[Daniel]

Excuse me, but is there any need to be quite so confrontational all the time? What I just said was a perfectly reasonable comment, and I don't think it requires any further explanation.
I was having a joke :) I was merely frustrated (at myself) for not having any ideas that weren't already being put into practice :)

[Hazell B]

.

It would be nice just to build a load of new houses in a previously unpopulated area, but of course people need jobs, and those jobs tend to be in London, you just get people commuting in instead, and so the cycle continues :s


That's what I was trying to say, why have the jobs in London in the first place?

PA Listings, a media information firm, left London to come to a village near here. Now the village is full of their employees and it's brilliant for all concerned. The company has low overheads being in a low rent area, the staff moved out of the city and have bigger, nicer homes in a great setting and better schools, plus the locals had extra customers for their car dealerships, shops and so on. House prices rose a bit, but we can live with that. Those thousand people are better off, thanks to a forward thinking company. Why can't others do the same thing?

We can read, write and count outside London ;) :p :

[BDunnell]

I was having a joke :) I was merely frustrated (at myself) for not having any ideas that weren't already being put into practice :)

OK, apologies. I couldn't tell on this occasion.

[BDunnell]

That's what I was trying to say, why have the jobs in London in the first place?

PA Listings, a media information firm, left London to come to a village near here. Now the village is full of their employees and it's brilliant for all concerned. The company has low overheads being in a low rent area, the staff moved out of the city and have bigger, nicer homes in a great setting and better schools, plus the locals had extra customers for their car dealerships, shops and so on. House prices rose a bit, but we can live with that. Those thousand people are better off, thanks to a forward thinking company. Why can't others do the same thing?

We can read, write and count outside London ;) :p :

But, like it or not, having a London address is probably more 'useful' (I can't think of a better word) to many companies as things stand than one near where you live. This is probably rather sad, but it's definitely the case. In addition, relocating a whole business isn't an easy process because of family ties, etc. And there's the fact that London, like it or not, is the capital and will always have certain advantages as a result.

The establishment of a federal system of government would probably have had the effect it's had in many mainland European countries of decentralising business as well as power, but there has never been much of an appetite for it, sadly. Neither would it necessarily be practical for reasons too numerous to go into here (sorry, Daniel... ;) ).

[Daniel]

But, like it or not, having a London address is probably more 'useful' (I can't think of a better word) to many companies as things stand than one near where you live. This is probably rather sad, but it's definitely the case. In addition, relocating a whole business isn't an easy process because of family ties, etc. And there's the fact that London, like it or not, is the capital and will always have certain advantages as a result.

The establishment of a federal system of government would probably have had the effect it's had in many mainland European countries of decentralising business as well as power, but there has never been much of an appetite for it, sadly. Neither would it necessarily be practical for reasons too numerous to go into here (sorry, Daniel... ;) ).
Oi! Stop pointing out my inability to think of things that are already unthunk :mark: :p

I love the fact that my work isn't in the middle of a bustling city :) Today I walked to the shop and it was quite nice. I love the fact that my quality of life is better than that which I'd have in the middle of London or Manchester. But that's just me. But I'm a simple person and I prefer the fact that I have woods about 2 minutes walk from home over having "good" nightlife. I suspect a lot of people agree with me but there are many more who would find where I live incredibly boring!

[Mark]

You see the same thing on the likes of "Relocation, Relocation", where they like the idea of moving out of London, but want to keep a 'crash pad' because they think there is no live outside of the capital.. Of course they then give up the crash pad idea when the realise there is civilisation outside of the M25 :p

[oily oaf]

You see the same thing on the likes of "Relocation, Relocation", where they like the idea of moving out of London, but want to keep a 'crash pad' because they think there is no live outside of the capital.. Of course they then give up the crash pad idea when the realise there is civilisation outside of the M25 :p

I ventured north of the M25 once.
I had to turn back after my car was sacked by warlike Picts who tried to tune my car radio into Radio Alfred The Great FM :(

[BDunnell]

There is always this assumption that people who live in London are all from London and have never had any experience of anywhere else, and thus don't believe that there is life outside the capital. This simply isn't true.

[Mark]

There was a featured quote on the BBC website about the budget report which said "Before the chancellor thinks about taxing us all more to fly and use our cars, how about some investment in public transport outside London?".

[oily oaf]

Blimey I've just learned of another good reason not to go "up Norf".
Apparently the clubbers in Yorkshire have taken to injecting liquid estacy into themselves using dental syringes.
They call it "E by gum"

I'm here till 22nd October. After that I won't be. (he said mysteriously) :s murf:

[Azumanga Davo]

If your gonna spilt hairs like that, Ilkeston isnt in the heart of Derbyshire, and if you ask Mr Browns Office of Statistics, it's apparently in Nottingham

Back on topic do we really need this? I took a trip to London recently, got myself an Oyster card and the buses and tube worked just fine. Instead of spending £16 million on a new train line, why not spend it on the roads to help cut congestion and air pollution. Do this and new rail links not be needs 'cos people can easily catch a bus (or coach) across London

I quoted him. It's his fault, he made the mistake before me... :D

[Hazell B]

There is always this assumption that people who live in London are all from London and have never had any experience of anywhere else, and thus don't believe that there is life outside the capital. This simply isn't true.

There's also always the assumption from certain parties that everyone outside London thinks everyone inside London is from London :rolleyes:
We're not stupid. We know people move there. Several of my school mates are there right now, plus two of my partner's sisters (Hubble Bubble and Trouble :p : ) and one of my ex-neighbours. They all moan about the price of houses and the cost of living .... and some want to move home in the future if they can find a job.

The plain truth is that most companies could have their address where they like, but the main workforce in a whole other country. Newspapers don't have to be printed and distributed from the centre of London, for example. They could just get written there and computers send the message hundreds of miles rather than a mile or two. Sadly that doesn't occur to politicians half the time, leaving smaller towns and cities having to advertise that they exist to would-be employers and companies looking to relocate.

We've got the UK's largest glass factory and a brand new Tesco Direct warehouse just about to open here now, both of which London tried to grab. Luckily the companies saw the advantage of our superb motorway network, undemanding workforces and central location. They've saved themselves millions in rent each year ;)

[BrentJackson]

Mr Jackson = Sensible Canadian type chappie with a rather excellent matinee idol name and who probably enjoys watching open wheel motor racing in which the cars have been known on occasion to overtake one another. :eek:

I am an open wheel racing enthusiast. Just as I also am an enthusiast of sportscar and touring car racing. You play this game very well mr. oily oaf. :p

I am a believer in high-speed rail systems and mass transit - not because I hate cars or an some neo-greenpace lunatic, but because congestion is a pain, on a whole stack of fronts. London has congestion problems, just like a majority of the world's cities, my hometown being no exception. I'd love to see high-speed rail systems and well-built mass transit systems exist here in Toronto, because traffic is a pain.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31825674

Crossrail, the new £15bn tube for London. The tunnels are now all but complete and work is now shifting to the ten new stations.

Even though I live up north I do travel to London and use the tube very often. It'll be useful to see how Crossrail changes journeys in the capital. My regular journey from Lancashire to Ealing is still often quicker by car than it is by WCML train and tube from Euston.

I wonder if it will be properly integrated with HS2 (if that is ever built).

[KARINA]

An understandable but key error there Drew old chap.
What they said was you'd be 24 hours in a train.


Jim. Arf! Listen mate if you sliced me up like a xender (https://xender.vip/) discord (https://discord.software/) omegle (https://omegle.onl/) cucumber, and many have tried btw, you'd find "Vote Labour" stamped all the way through like a stick of Southend rock ;)

(doffs red beret and raises clenched fist into air)
FREEDOM FOR TOOTING!

Oh and anything that gives the ailing and much maligned engineering industry in this country an almighty shot in the arm and creates 30,000 new jobs is OK by me.

[colingaar]

Just say that. Plus from the look of it a lot of roads are only busy in one direction at one time of the day. How about encouraging people not to work in the big population centres.

[smyankent]

An understandable but key error there Drew old chap.
What they said was you'd be 24 hours in a train.


Jim. Arf! Listen mate if you sliced me up like a cucumber Omegle (https://omegle.link/) Ome TV (https://chatdoz.com/ome-tv-de/) Bazoocam (https://bazoocam.onl/), and many have tried btw, you'd find "Vote Labour" stamped all the way through like a stick of Southend rock ;)

(doffs red beret and raises clenched fist into air)
FREEDOM FOR TOOTING!

Gracious and anything that gives the weak and much insulted designing industry in this nation an omnipotent jolt and makes 30,000 new openings is OK by me.

[rocksi]

There's also always the assumption from certain parties that everyone outside London thinks everyone inside London is from London :rolleyes:
We're not stupid. We know people move there. Several of my school mates are there right now, plus two of my partner's sisters (Hubble Bubble and Trouble :p : ) and one of my ex-neighbours. They all moan about the price of houses and the cost of living .... and some want to move home in the future if they can find a job.

The plain truth is that most companies could have their address where they like, but the main workforce in a whole other country. Newspapers don't have to be printed and distributed from the centre of London, for example. They could just get written there and computers send the message hundreds of miles rather than a mile or two bazoocam (https://bazoo-cam.com/). Sadly that doesn't occur to politicians half the time, leaving smaller towns and cities having to advertise that they exist to chat avenue (https://chat-avenue.pro/) would-be employers and companies looking to relocate.

We've got the UK's largest glass factory and a brand ome tv (https://ometv.pro/) new Tesco Direct warehouse just about to open here now, both of which London tried to grab. Luckily the companies saw the advantage of our superb motorway network, undemanding workforces and central location. They've saved themselves millions in rent each year ;)
thank you soo much for the best answer.