Let's sort the bigotted from the cogniescenti.

[Mintexmemory]

Some one with better skills than I put up the following poll please

Lewis Hamilton - Worthy Champion / Future of GP

Lewis Hamilton - Most over-rated Champion ever

Lewis Hamilton - I'm in denial and the Tooth Fairy will gift Kimi/FA with the title

[Hawkmoon]

So, if I pick any option other than 1, does that make me bigoted?

Conversely, can only those who pick option 1 be considered cognoscenti?

I'm not sure where you're going with this one. If you want to get peoples' opinion on Hamilton's impending WDC there are better ways of doing it.

[Mintexmemory]

So, if I pick any option other than 1, does that make me bigoted?

Conversely, can only those who pick option 1 be considered cognoscenti?

I'm not sure where you're going with this one. If you want to get peoples' opinion on Hamilton's impending WDC there are better ways of doing it.

I make no value judgement, if you would like to provide a balanced set of options be my guest. Any pollster will tell you that there is no such thing as a neutral, objective poll.

ps Thanks for providing correct spelling of 'them what knows'

[janneppi]

I can't make a poll if I don't understand the question. :)

[ioan]

Just start a poll about how much value LH's title will have after the team being ousted of championship for cheating.

Better even, don't start any poll as we all know the result and it would be just a loss of valuable time! :D

[Hawkmoon]

I make no value judgement, if you would like to provide a balanced set of options be my guest. Any pollster will tell you that there is no such thing as a neutral, objective poll.

ps Thanks for providing correct spelling of 'them what knows'

There's no such thing as a neutral reply to a poll but I figure you can go a long way towards asking a neutral question.

Something along the lines of:
Do you think Hamilton will be a -
1. Worthy WDC
2. Lucky WDC
3. Tainted WDC
4. None of the above

The answers will still only be opinion, and probably biased opinion at that, but at least the question allows for a broad range of answers that people can answer truthfully if they are so inclined.

Oh, and you can thank the wonders of the spell checker as I had no idea how to spell "cognoscenti" either! :D

[janneppi]

The answers will still only be opinion, and probably biased opinion at that, but at least the question allows for a broad range of answers that people can answer truthfully if they are so inclined.

:up:
Now those i can out into options


Mintexmemory: Would you mind if I change the title of the thread to match the question too?

[ioan]

:D

[SGWilko]

Just for the record.

Cast the alleged spying/cheating aside for a moment.

My opinion is this.

A drivers championship won by being given equal machinery, opportunity and strategy is head and shoulders 100% more worthy than any championship where the chance of your team mate being allowed to race you is taken away.

Is that bigoted, cognoscenti or just a correct observation?

[jens]

We may question team's activities, but Hamilton as a driver is clearly a worthy champion, no question about that. :up: No-one can say that he won the title thanks to a dominant car and/or thanks to an average team-mate, like the achievements of previous champions have been often downplayed.

[ioan]

A drivers championship won by being given equal machinery, opportunity and strategy is head and shoulders 100% more worthy than any championship where the chance of your team mate being allowed to race you is taken away.

Is that bigoted, cognoscenti or just a correct observation?

Bigoted. FA wasn't allowed to challenge Hamilton!

[SGWilko]

Bigoted. FA wasn't allowed to challenge Hamilton!


Really? When/where was that then? I seem to remember Lewis ahead of Onslo in one of the early races, but Onslo finished ahead of him.

He challenged Lewis at Indy on fresh tyres, but could not get by. Then the tyres lost their advantage.

Next....

[BDunnell]

Bigoted. FA wasn't allowed to challenge Hamilton!

Even Alonso hasn't gone as far as to say that. What evidence of team orders do you have in your possession? Ought I to notify a copy shop in Woking that you will be coming round with it later?

[Ian McC]

it would be just a loss of valuable time! :D

:laugh:

I am not sure that this forum is a best use of anyones valuable time Ioan, especially these days ;)

[rohanweb]

comon.. why the hell somuch fuss about LH winning a WDC in his rookie year.. we havent seen much criticism's of how some of the past drivers like MS driven to 'achieve' championships... surely they didnt have fingers raised..

the FIA and lots of fans are destroying the F1 itself by one way or other trying to rubbish other in order to compete thesedays! it seems drivers are being penalised for each and every action by someone complains of thier own failures... bunch of sicko's really! it wont be toolong each driver behind the pole man can do what they want and blame some other driver for thier mistakes and drivers even have to think twice before going wheel to wheel that overtaken driver will sue him for doing it so..

[janneppi]

comon.. why the hell somuch fuss about LH winning a WDC in his rookie year.. we havent seen much criticism's of how some of the past drivers like MS driven to 'achieve' championships... surely they didnt have fingers raised..


MS not criticised? You must be joking.
But let's not go there. :)

[Hondo]

While he may have caught some lucky breaks to be where is as far as team and equipment goes, his teammate is a 2 time and current WDC and he's ahead of him so yeah, I think he's a worthy champion.

He's the best driver Ferrari could get after Schumacher bailed.

[veeten]

Looking at the season overall, one word can be said about Hamilton and his driving; consistent.

With the exception of a couple of races, he has finished on the podium more times than his teammate, with a stretch of 8 consecutive podiums during the middle of the season.

Cognoscenti.

Since it is an Italian phrase, doesn't that tell you?

(joke)

[Mintexmemory]

:up:
Now those i can out into options


Mintexmemory: Would you mind if I change the title of the thread to match the question too?

Turning out quite interesting too!

[Mintexmemory]

Onslo

Onslo won't mean squat to non-brits unless they've also seen 'Keeping up appearances'.
The thought of FA in string vest with a tab on while eating a fried meal is brilliant :)

[SGWilko]

Onslo won't mean squat to non-brits unless they've also seen 'Keeping up appearances'.
The thought of FA in string vest with a tab on while eating a fried meal is brilliant :)

Top man, full marks. Hyacinth Bucket would be proud of you........ :D

[ioan]

:laugh:

I am not sure that this forum is a best use of anyones valuable time Ioan, especially these days ;)

You're 100% right there! :)

[ioan]

comon.. why the hell somuch fuss about LH winning a WDC in his rookie year.. we havent seen much criticism's of how some of the past drivers like MS driven to 'achieve' championships... surely they didnt have fingers raised..

:eek: :?: :?: :?:

[ioan]

Turning out quite interesting too!

Not really.

[Kevincal]

Really? When/where was that then? I seem to remember Lewis ahead of Onslo in one of the early races, but Onslo finished ahead of him.

He challenged Lewis at Indy on fresh tyres, but could not get by. Then the tyres lost their advantage.

Next....

Gee, by spelling Alonso's name like that, I wonder if he you don't hate him... And Indy? How about that chicken $h!+ swerving by Hamilton down the straightaway when he knew Alonso was going to pass him?

[Storm]

Obviously Hamilton has talent (loads of it) but I also feel he has been quite lucky (with many things including being in the fastest car in his rookie year, strategies, reliability) so its a hard choice. He has deserved his success to a point but also has had a few things handed to him on a platter. Some of his actions/comments make him look like an arrogant person but I think that might change if his car starts breaking down a bit next year. (If not we are in for more MS like years)

[tinchote]

I'm a bigot, what am I supposed to vote? :confused:

[Mintexmemory]

:)
Not really.
Perhaps the Champions League scores from this week are more to your liking.

[fandango]

There's no question Hamilton's been lucky, but he's taken the luck and used it to full advantage, like a champion should. Even his puncture just before a scheduled pitstop was just so jammy, but he still had to keep it on the road. However, I still prefer Alonso.

[kalasend]

Hamilton would be worthy champion. And so are few other drivers(FA, KR, FM, NH, MW), if they were given equally competitive(and reliable) machines.

Truth is that Hamilton is good. But he has undeniably experienced less incidents which others have. So the question shouldn't be whether LH is worthy champion, but whether the 3 other contenders have their own share of incapability thus losing the fight for the crown. Of the three, I can only say that FM has a slight margin to improve. But both FA and KR have driven as equally impressive as LH. And the different between LH and FA/KR is nothing about skills.

[spiltmilk]

What can I say he got skillzz. And to top it off he's a visible minority yo boot. And he likes Chinese/Oriental BOOTY. If anything I think Alonso is not deserving for third WDC. No way can I swallow such a weak willed person like Alonso emulate the great SENNA. He lost so much support when he tried the BLACKMAIL on his team. That was stoopid thats like shooting himself in the foot. It shows a lack of character.
Hamilton on the other hand learn by himself how ruthless and how far his competition will go to spoil Hamiltons welll earned championship.Even that Dale earndhart was a team player blocking the competition from having any contention while Dales teamate went for gold. Even on the day he died he saw the big picture. I can tell if Alonso was leading I think Hamilton will sopport his teamate no matter how bitter it is. Thats what a team is for. To compete.

[ShiftingGears]

No way can I swallow such a weak willed person like Alonso .


Load of crap. It's pretty obvious he's a strong-willed person wanting to win the WDC, like Hamilton.

[Roamy]

He is tainted - not because he lacks the talent
RD ****ed him by cheating and by ****ing alonso with that qually deal

But in his defense there will be no pictures on the scorecard and he will be remembered a champion certainly no less than Cheatmacher in certain years

[wmcot]

I'll try to be a little bit reasonable. I voted "worthy" even though I'm a Ferrari fan. Please note that "worthy" is not the same as "perfect." If LH wins the WDC it will not be due to cheating. That would be like saying Yuje Ide was not WDC because he didn't cheat enough!

LH has his faults. McLaren as a team have their faults. But so have every past WDC and their team! When asking yourself if LH is "worthy" try substituting the name of your favorite champion and ask yourself the question again. You will realize that F1 has had no "perfect" champions, but has had "worthy" ones each season.

Worthy means being consistent, making the best of what you have got, capitalizing on "lucky" breaks, and fighting for what you want when you need to. LH fits that description. Many other drivers do too and would be "worthy" WDC's if they were in his position.

[wmcot]

Does my previous post make me a bigoted cognoscenti? :)

(OK, I had to get my dictionary out since my spell checker didn't even know the correct spellings!)

[ioan]

:)
Perhaps the Champions League scores from this week are more to your liking.

Don't know as I don't follow football at all.

[Mintexmemory]

[quote="Does my previous post make me a bigoted cognoscenti?.[/quote"]
Nope a decent, honest opinion from my pov.
Tell me, though, what was Jim Clark's imperfection (or Fangio come to that) :)

[Ian McC]

How about that chicken $h!+ swerving by Hamilton down the straightaway when he knew Alonso was going to pass him?

Oh well you certainly haven't got over that have you? :rolleyes:

[Flat.tyres]

I'll try to be a little bit reasonable. I voted "worthy" even though I'm a Ferrari fan. Please note that "worthy" is not the same as "perfect." If LH wins the WDC it will not be due to cheating. That would be like saying Yuje Ide was not WDC because he didn't cheat enough!

LH has his faults. McLaren as a team have their faults. But so have every past WDC and their team! When asking yourself if LH is "worthy" try substituting the name of your favorite champion and ask yourself the question again. You will realize that F1 has had no "perfect" champions, but has had "worthy" ones each season.

Worthy means being consistent, making the best of what you have got, capitalizing on "lucky" breaks, and fighting for what you want when you need to. LH fits that description. Many other drivers do too and would be "worthy" WDC's if they were in his position.

Great post. Agree with every word.

[SGWilko]

I'll try to be a little bit reasonable. I voted "worthy" even though I'm a Ferrari fan. Please note that "worthy" is not the same as "perfect." If LH wins the WDC it will not be due to cheating. That would be like saying Yuje Ide was not WDC because he didn't cheat enough!

LH has his faults. McLaren as a team have their faults. But so have every past WDC and their team! When asking yourself if LH is "worthy" try substituting the name of your favorite champion and ask yourself the question again. You will realize that F1 has had no "perfect" champions, but has had "worthy" ones each season.

Worthy means being consistent, making the best of what you have got, capitalizing on "lucky" breaks, and fighting for what you want when you need to. LH fits that description. Many other drivers do too and would be "worthy" WDC's if they were in his position.

A balanced well thought out post? You do know this is the motorsport.com forum don't you? ;)

Oh, by the way. Hear here.

[Tazio]

Some one with better skills than I put up the following poll please

Lewis Hamilton - Worthy Champion / Future of GP

Lewis Hamilton - Most over-rated Champion ever

Lewis Hamilton - I'm in denial and the Tooth Fairy will gift Kimi/FA with the title
Could you define the term worthy?
Just kidding!
If he wins 3 WDC's He will be either worthy, or we live in the Matrix.
In the latter case it doesn't really matter!

[Mintexmemory]

Could you define the term worthy?
Just kidding!
If he wins 3 WDC's He will be either worthy, or we live in the Matrix.
In the latter case it doesn't really matter!

My prediction is 10 WDC's before he is 35 :D

[wmcot]

Tell me, though, what was Jim Clark's imperfection (or Fangio come to that) :)

Based on the fact that they were human, I'm sure they had some imperfections. I'm not really aware of any specific example since Fangio was before my time and I was a kid when Clark was driving (although he was my idol then so I couldn't be unbiased.)

[Mintexmemory]

Based on the fact that they were human, I'm sure they had some imperfections. I'm not really aware of any specific example since Fangio was before my time and I was a kid when Clark was driving (although he was my idol then so I couldn't be unbiased.)

I'm sure JMF was overly fond of garlic on his chimis
Jimmy Clark was a sheep farmer

God they are so damned! :D

Both were streets ahead of their contemporaries as drivers and neither of them (to my knowledge) were ever less than 100% fair in a contest.
Only seen both on film, but comment by people like JYS and Stirling Moss is good enough for me as 1st hand witnesses. Both were an example of the best the sport could aspire to, perhaps Senna and Schuey fans would consider them both naive as they never punted a rival off to win a championship. If that was their imperfection - a lack of ruthlessness, I for one would tolerate it :)

[Eki]

I first voted "Lucky WDC" but this race tilted the scale more towards "Worthy WDC" with a spot of the McLaren spying game, which of course wasn't Hamilton's fault but may have benefited him.