To The Ferrari's Fans

[mstillhere]

I would suggest to all the McLaren fans not to respond to the McLaren fans new accusations over the cheating issue. I am realizing, like many, that's pointless trying to convince them that the McLAren team is the one who broke the rules of fairness in the sport and that's why they have been punished. These "fans" totally oblivious of the rule of the FIA and of the law are trying to get back at us but starting an other denigrating story at the expense of the Ferrari team. Their new story is based of the version of the facts coming from the very trustworthy, and former ferrari employee, Stepney (who soon or late is going to be arrested). There is going to be an other all out denegrating campaign that's supposed to redeem McLAren (poor victim) and put Ferrari back where it belongs: on the bench of the accused. Don't fall in their trap. It's obvious that they are hurting but more astoningshly NOT WILLING TO SUCK IT UP.
They'll be trying for years from now to deny that McLAren never did anything wrong and if any body is to blame, well...that's Ferrari. We have to stop to talk about this (justice has been done) and move on. That's something they'll never be able to do. What makes me feel so good? THE FACT THAT'S SO EASY TO DEFEND THE TRUTH (FOR ME) AND SO DIFFICULT TO DEFEND A LIE (FOR YOU).

[trumperZ06]

I would suggest to all the McLaren fans not to respond to the McLaren fans new accusations over the cheating issue. I am realizing, like many, that's pointless trying to convince them that the McLAren team is the one who broke the rules of fairness in the sport and that's why they have been punished. These "fans" totally oblivious of the rule of the FIA and of the law are trying to get back at us but starting an other denigrating story at the expense of the Ferrari team. Their new story is based of the version of the facts coming from the very trustworthy, and former ferrari employee, Stepney (who soon or late is going to be arrested). There is going to be an other all out denegrating campaign that's supposed to redeem McLAren (poor victim) and put Ferrari back where it belongs: on the bench of the accused. Don't fall in their trap. It's obvious that they are hurting but more astoningshly NOT WILLING TO SUCK IT UP.
They'll be trying for years from now to deny that McLAren never did anything wrong and if any body is to blame, well...that's Ferrari. We have to stop to talk about this (justice has been done) and move on. That's something they'll never be able to do. What makes me feel so good? THE FACT THAT'S SO EASY TO DEFEND THE TRUTH (FOR ME) AND SO DIFFICULT TO DEFEND A LIE (FOR YOU).

:rolleyes: BRUHAAHAAAHAAAA... Stepney sez his hands were in the "COOKIE JAR" (receiving McLaren Technical Data)...

and that he shared the information with others @ Ferrari while he was still employed !!!

:p : You wanna suck on something... SUCK ON THAT !!!! :p :

[Tazio]

:rolleyes: BRUHAAHAAAHAAAA... Stepney sez his hands were in the "COOKIE JAR" (receiving McLaren Technical Data)...

and that he shared the information with others @ Ferrari while he was still employed !!!

:p : You wanna suck on something... SUCK ON THAT !!!! :p :
NS has exactly zero credibility. If someone of a slightly higher moral fiber were to corroborate this, and was able to document this accusation, Ferrari should be thoroughly investigated. If found guilty, drawn and quartered!
But on the word of Nige or even MC, forget it!

[trumperZ06]

NS has exactly zero credibility. If someone of a slightly higher moral fiber were to corroborate this, and was able to document this accusation, Ferrari should be thoroughly investigated. If found guilty, drawn and quartered!
But on the word of Nige or even MC, forget it!

;) Awe come-on now....

Stepney's at least as credible as...

Ohh... lets see...

:p : Hhmmm... Mad Max... when he "trashed"... Jackie Stewart !!!


:s mokin:

[schmenke]

I would suggest to all the McLaren fans not to respond to the McLaren fans new accusations over the cheating issue. I am realizing, like many, that's pointless trying to convince them that the McLAren team is the one who broke the rules of fairness in the sport and that's why they have been punished. These "fans" totally oblivious of the rule of the FIA and of the law are trying to get back at us but starting an other denigrating story at the expense of the Ferrari team. Their new story is based of the version of the facts coming from the very trustworthy, and former ferrari employee, Stepney (who soon or late is going to be arrested). There is going to be an other all out denegrating campaign that's supposed to redeem McLAren (poor victim) and put Ferrari back where it belongs: on the bench of the accused. Don't fall in their trap. It's obvious that they are hurting but more astoningshly NOT WILLING TO SUCK IT UP.
They'll be trying for years from now to deny that McLAren never did anything wrong and if any body is to blame, well...that's Ferrari. We have to stop to talk about this (justice has been done) and move on. That's something they'll never be able to do. What makes me feel so good? THE FACT THAT'S SO EASY TO DEFEND THE TRUTH (FOR ME) AND SO DIFFICULT TO DEFEND A LIE (FOR YOU).

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this thread...

I like to think that most forum members are sufficiently intelligent to formulate their own opinions and choose for themselves to which posts they want to respond :mark:

[SGWilko]

I would suggest to all the McLaren fans not to respond to the McLaren fans new accusations over the cheating issue. I am realizing, like many, that's pointless trying to convince them that the McLAren team is the one who broke the rules of fairness in the sport and that's why they have been punished. These "fans" totally oblivious of the rule of the FIA and of the law are trying to get back at us but starting an other denigrating story at the expense of the Ferrari team. Their new story is based of the version of the facts coming from the very trustworthy, and former ferrari employee, Stepney (who soon or late is going to be arrested). There is going to be an other all out denegrating campaign that's supposed to redeem McLAren (poor victim) and put Ferrari back where it belongs: on the bench of the accused. Don't fall in their trap. It's obvious that they are hurting but more astoningshly NOT WILLING TO SUCK IT UP.
They'll be trying for years from now to deny that McLAren never did anything wrong and if any body is to blame, well...that's Ferrari. We have to stop to talk about this (justice has been done) and move on. That's something they'll never be able to do. What makes me feel so good? THE FACT THAT'S SO EASY TO DEFEND THE TRUTH (FOR ME) AND SO DIFFICULT TO DEFEND A LIE (FOR YOU).

As the 'PFJ' would say.......

Solidarity Reg! :D

[mstillhere]

I like to think that most forum members are sufficiently intelligent to formulate their own opinions and choose for themselves to which posts they want to respond :mark:

Mine is just an invitation to not participate in this continous alterations of the facts coming from the McLaren fans. I am, as a Ferrari fan, (partially) satisfied with the FIA ruling. Unfortunately, there is a number of Mclaren trouble makers who illogically refuse to acknowledge the FACTS and willing to move on. The relentess attacks coming from this people are becoming a mere rethorical exercise aiming at just causing trouble.

[wmcot]

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this thread...

I like to think that most forum members are sufficiently intelligent to formulate their own opinions and choose for themselves to which posts they want to respond :mark:


It's good to have an opinion, but it's better to have an open mind. The ultimate is to accompany that with open eyes!

[schmenke]

Mine is just an invitation to not participate in this continous alterations of the facts coming from the McLaren fans. I am, as a Ferrari fan, (partially) satisfied with the FIA ruling. Unfortunately, there is a number of Mclaren trouble makers who illogically refuse to acknowledge the FACTS and willing to move on. The relentess attacks ...

Are they attacks, or are they merely expressing an opinion, much like Ferrari fans express theirs?

[mstillhere]

Are they attacks, or are they merely expressing an opinion, much like Ferrari fans express theirs?

Attacks

[SGWilko]

Attacks

Very revealing......

[mstillhere]

Very revealing......

Very surprised...

[SGWilko]

Very surprised...

Everyone taking alternative opinions to seriously do you suppose?

[schmenke]

Attacks

Why don't you report the attacks to the mods instead of posting a new thread, which btw to me, seems as an invitation to further attacks.

[SGWilko]

Why don't you report the attacks to the mods instead of posting a new thread, which btw to me, seems as an invitation to further attacks.

This forum is no place for sensible posts like that...... :p :

[wmcot]

Very surprised...

Why the surprise? Ferrari have historically been the only non-UK based (or partially based) team to threaten for championships. This seems to have developed an "us vs. them" mentality in the UK (which is pretty understandable considering we all have a bit of nationalistic pride.) I suspect that if BMW or Toyota started winning regularly, some of the mud would start slinging in their direction.

[Flat.tyres]

Why the surprise? Ferrari have historically been the only non-UK based (or partially based) team to threaten for championships. This seems to have developed an "us vs. them" mentality in the UK (which is pretty understandable considering we all have a bit of nationalistic pride.) I suspect that if BMW or Toyota started winning regularly, some of the mud would start slinging in their direction.

Ummm, Ferrari are partly UK based.

[Garry Walker]

Ummm, Ferrari are partly UK based.

You should rephrase that.
It is McLaren who are partly Italy based, at least this year :D

[wmcot]

Ummm, Ferrari are partly UK based.

But not enough to be considered a UK team by any stretch of the imagination!

For example: Renault have their entire car (less engine) pretty much built in the UK.

[Tazio]

;) Awe come-on now....

Stepney's at least as credible as...

Ohh... lets see...

:p : Hhmmm... Mad Max... when he "trashed"... Jackie Stewart !!!


:s mokin:
Touché

[markabilly]

This is an amazing thread!! Clearly about nothing or do i have an opinion about something yet nothing but not really.....

if i should express it but then if I offend myself, does it really matter to ferrari fans?

Clearly the most posts about revealing with surprise about an open mind and truth for defending when you are a mac fan or not.....

Nothing ain't worth nothing but it is free....

so I see, said the blind man :rolleyes:

[mstillhere]

Why the surprise? Ferrari have historically been the only non-UK based (or partially based) team to threaten for championships. This seems to have developed an "us vs. them" mentality in the UK (which is pretty understandable considering we all have a bit of nationalistic pride.) I suspect that if BMW or Toyota started winning regularly, some of the mud would start slinging in their direction.

Before we had to endure criticism because of MS and his cheating. Fair enough. Now that MS is gone, the accusations of cheating continue. So what this people want us (me?) to do is to accept that everything and anything that has to do with Ferrari is negative, bad, a cheat. No mistakes are possible. Everything was premediteded, plotted and so on..
Of course, the McLaren team are not being run by humans. They are the quintessential of purity and honesty. And when things are non that pure...well...it's Ferrari's fault. After a while it gets old and also very unfair without mentioning the TRIPLE standard.

[555-04Q2]

:rolleyes: BRUHAAHAAAHAAAA... Stepney sez his hands were in the "COOKIE JAR" (receiving McLaren Technical Data)...

and that he shared the information with others @ Ferrari while he was still employed !!!

:p : You wanna suck on something... SUCK ON THAT !!!! :p :

:erm: Wow, a guilty man trying to spread the blame around. Now there's a novel idea :s tareup:

[555-04Q2]

Before we had to endure criticism because of MS and his cheating. Fair enough. Now that MS is gone, the accusations of cheating continue. So what this people want us (me?) to do is to accept that everything and anything that has to do with Ferrari is negative, bad, a cheat. No mistakes are possible. Everything was premediteded, plotted and so on..
Of course, the McLaren team are not being run by humans. They are the quintessential of purity and honesty. And when things are non that pure...well...it's Ferrari's fault. After a while it gets old and also very unfair without mentioning the TRIPLE standard.

mstillhere, you're farting against thunder mate ;) You cant teach and old dog new tricks no matter what the Mythbusters proved.

[wmcot]

Before we had to endure criticism because of MS and his cheating. Fair enough. Now that MS is gone, the accusations of cheating continue. So what this people want us (me?) to do is to accept that everything and anything that has to do with Ferrari is negative, bad, a cheat. No mistakes are possible. Everything was premediteded, plotted and so on..
Of course, the McLaren team are not being run by humans. They are the quintessential of purity and honesty. And when things are non that pure...well...it's Ferrari's fault. After a while it gets old and also very unfair without mentioning the TRIPLE standard.

That was my point exactly. Since Ferrari became successful at beating the UK based teams, they have been continually criticized in the British press and by a large number (I won't say majority) of UK F1 fans who believe that every move made by the team (and some against the team, as in Stepneygate) are run by the Italian Mafia. Perhaps it's still because Italy was united with Germany in WWII???

[ioan]

mstillhere, you're farting against thunder mate ;) You cant teach and old dog new tricks no matter what the Mythbusters proved.

:up: Well put! :up:

I would only add that the old dog at least has the excuse that it might be already deaf, while people around here are clearly able to read, or maybe they are not?! :p :

[SGWilko]

mstillhere, you're farting against thunder mate ;) You cant teach and old dog new tricks no matter what the Mythbusters proved.

The 'them and us' thing never really went away did it? Just always been bubbling away close to the surface since the 1976 season which was a ding dong battle between, eeerrrrmmm, oh looky here it was McLaren and Ferrari wasn't it?

I will go as far as state that, given Niki's horrific accident and then his heroic return, I can see why there was a lot of bad feeling that he lost.

In fact, I only learned last weekend that Niki could not continue in Fuji because he could not blink away the rain as he had no eyelids.

But then, in years to come, Ferrari would just toss him away......

A bad reputation is easy to gain, a good one is not.

The perception that Ferrari has relied upon favourable decisions from the FIA will always continue if those decisions are favourable.

Its the whining JT did about the emails that grates on us 'others' if they accepted emails were fine last year, and every other team gets the message but them, there is going to be an air of suspicion and derision.

I used to be Ferrari fan from 89 up until Alesi and Berger left.

But as for the no 'FIA help' during the 21 year drought I think miracles were needed then, not favourable decisions.

Perhaps you think I tuned to the dark side, I just lost faith when I could see what Ferrari had become, and that they would employ the win at all costs attitute.....

I am sorry if my opinion is not like yours, but life would be dull if it was, eh? ;)

[555-04Q2]

I used to be Ferrari fan from 89 up until Alesi and Berger left.

But as for the no 'FIA help' during the 21 year drought I think miracles were needed then, not favourable decisions.

Perhaps you think I tuned to the dark side, I just lost faith when I could see what Ferrari had become, and that they would employ the win at all costs attitute.....

We will all be punished in the afterlife for our wrongs ;) :p :

[Ian McC]

Mine is just an invitation to not participate in this continous alterations of the facts coming from the McLaren fans. I am, as a Ferrari fan, (partially) satisfied with the FIA ruling. Unfortunately, there is a number of Mclaren trouble makers who illogically refuse to acknowledge the FACTS and willing to move on. The relentess attacks coming from this people are becoming a mere rethorical exercise aiming at just causing trouble.

Facts? I don't think we have had the full facts and never will do, this 'scandle' has been a mess all round. Many question the investigation, party because the outcome was neither one or the other, but I don't see why anyone who questions the ruling should be brandeda trouble maker. I am sure there are plenty of people who will be making the 'cheat' references for ages to come so there won't be much in the way of moving on.

[SGWilko]

We will all be punished in the afterlife for our wrongs ;) :p :

:laugh:

[BDunnell]

Facts? I don't think we have had the full facts and never will do, this 'scandle' has been a mess all round. Many question the investigation, party because the outcome was neither one or the other, but I don't see why anyone who questions the ruling should be brandeda trouble maker. I am sure there are plenty of people who will be making the 'cheat' references for ages to come so there won't be much in the way of moving on.

:up:

Neither should they be viewed as automatically being biased towards one side or the other.

[airshifter]

:up:

Neither should they be viewed as automatically being biased towards one side or the other.

I think in most cases, those stating everyone else is biased are the ones with a strong viewpoint favoring one team, and thus with bias.

I've supported both teams and many of their drivers for years, but often been accused of being biased in the matter.

[mstillhere]

Facts? I don't think we have had the full facts and never will do, this 'scandle' has been a mess all round. Many question the investigation, party because the outcome was neither one or the other, but I don't see why anyone who questions the ruling should be brandeda trouble maker. I am sure there are plenty of people who will be making the 'cheat' references for ages to come so there won't be much in the way of moving on.

You're hopeless

[schmenke]

You're hopeless

Is that an attack... or your opinion?

[BDunnell]

I think in most cases, those stating everyone else is biased are the ones with a strong viewpoint favoring one team, and thus with bias.

I've supported both teams and many of their drivers for years, but often been accused of being biased in the matter.

Not in my case. I do not support any team over any other.

[OmarF1]

come on guys there's too many mudd on F1 this days, let the sport breathe free for a while, we need to focus on improving actual racing, let the politics do the pig-job.

[airshifter]

Not in my case. I do not support any team over any other.

I was not trying in any way to imply that you are one of those with actual bias. Quite the contrary is true, and I always see some sort of reasonable logic applied to the issues you discuss on the forum.

[BDunnell]

I was not trying in any way to imply that you are one of those with actual bias. Quite the contrary is true, and I always see some sort of reasonable logic applied to the issues you discuss on the forum.

I see. Apologies for misunderstanding.

[Hondo]

You heard it here first.

Sooner or later all sides will come back together and start beating up on the FIA. At no time have they tried to appease either side through complete and open honesty. They have been secretive and have only allowed the information they want us to see to be shown. This is going to bite them harder than it is now.

[mstillhere]

You heard it here first.

Sooner or later all sides will come back together and start beating up on the FIA. At no time have they tried to appease either side through complete and open honesty. They have been secretive and have only allowed the information they want us to see to be shown. This is going to bite them harder than it is now.

I agree with that 1000%. Too many people, drivers, racers, and TMs seem to be too uncertain about what's going on. There is too much of a gap, disconnect if you will, between them (FIA) and everybody else.

[wmcot]

Facts? I don't think we have had the full facts and never will do, this 'scandle' has been a mess all round. Many question the investigation, party because the outcome was neither one or the other, but I don't see why anyone who questions the ruling should be brandeda trouble maker. I am sure there are plenty of people who will be making the 'cheat' references for ages to come so there won't be much in the way of moving on.

You're right about not having the full facts, but that will never happen in a big business like F1. If you work for a major company, you'll know that you never get all the facts from them either.

The scandal(s) have messed up this year, but life will go on. Yes, there are those who will always bring up the "cheating" just as there are those who still bring up MS to prove a point.

It seems like some will never be happy until we have a perfect season of F1 with absolutely no controversy on the track or off it. I wish them luck in their eternal wait! :)