Vista, 8 months on

[Daniel]

Just wondering what people here think of Windows Vista? Microsoft have recently announced that there's going to be an Service Pack 1 for Vista early next year which of course is the time when most people, businesses and nerds will buy it because SP1 is when an operating system is seen to be mature.

I've been using Vista since it late 2005 when the "Longhorn" Beta's were out and although is was a bit temperamental and took nearly an hour and a half to install :-/ But it's been out for 8 months now as a retail product and I have yet to actually phyiscally meet someone who's put down hard earned cash for Vista and has not been largely happy with it. The guy next to me at work uses it, AFF uses it, Dave Brockman uses it and Caroline uses it. All seem quite happy with it with a few small quibbles.

My main problems with Vista are thus.

Flash. If you leave a flash page open for a few hours on Vista it will probably crash internet explorer. Is not a possibility. It's almost a given.
Networking. Out of the box if you connect to a network and then leave your PC long enough for it to go to sleep, when it wakes up you won't have an internet connection.
Copying files. Sometimes when you're copying large files around Vista will hang. Being dealt with in SP1.
UAC. It's irritating but can be turned off quickly enough.

But there are so many other advantages

If you've got a gig of memory Vista will use most of it rather than have it sit around idly doing nothing. This makes your programs load up faster because they're already in the system memory.
Drivers. Driver support is very good for Vista. Chances are that if you shove the Vista DVD in that most if not all of your stuff will work if your PC was made in the last few years. Sure if you've got some obscure webcam or peripheral it might not work but it's up to the manufacturers to sort it and not Microsoft.
Vista forces you to get a decent graphics card! Too often people are conned into buying a PC with an onboard graphics card which is slow and steals RAM. Now Vista almost forces you to get a decent graphics card.
Other than the 2 week or so "learning" period where Vista sees what programs you open and run most frequently which it then uses to run faster for you, Vista is no slower than Vista when you consider that all operating systems have higher requirements than the last OS.
The interface. Even the most boneheaded anti-Apple person would say that the interface they used on the G4 iPods and the ones after was good. Credit where credit is due. In the same way you also need to understand that the interface for Vista is excellent. When I first got XP I set about 98ifiying it because it was no better than 98 in that respect and why learn how to use a different menu system? But with Vista it's good and well worth learning a different way of doing things.


If I went by what was said by most of the mortgage brokers I deal with who have Vista, I'd probably think it was a horrible horrible operating system but most of the issues they seem to have revolve around just not being able to use a computer properly and not people not being able to deal with change. That and the fact that there's a lot of misinformation around on the internet in regards to the cost, the features, the stability and the speed of Vista that it's hard for most people to make their own judgement.

My advice would be. If you were going to get a PC this year or in the future don't be a drip and get XP. But on the other hand if you just bought a PC last year and it still

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Windows 98 could run anything that I ever need to use on a computer, so I don't think I need to upgrade. :p

[A.F.F.]

IMO Vista is so much better than XP now that I've learnt to use and much more stable. Especially when following rally and I have to have dozen of pages open at the same time. Using is a bless then :)

Only problem is that frigging COM surround problem which always gives a note when watching videos. The problem occurs mainly with AVI files. My friend though it might be related to motherboard drivers ?? I'm waiting for SP1.

Other than that, Vista has worked like clock for me :up:

[Dave B]

I ordered my new laptop with Vista and have been using it for about three months now. No major problems, but a few minor niggles.

I had to tweak the registry to increase the amount of customised folder views it would remember (I had this problem with XP, why didn't they learn?)

Setting up a wireless network with two XP pooters was a 'mare, but MS have released a patch. Also I had to install an update to fix the hibernation problem.

UAC is indeed a pain in t'arse, but I've left it on "just in case".

At first I thought it was pitifully slow but of course that was just the indexing service doing its thang. Now I can search so quickly, most of my photos and tracks are tagged, so no longer do I have to remember the exact directory where I've stored stuff.

Aero, to be honest I couldn't give a stuff about. It's so much fun to watch your windows fly around when you do WinKey+Tab, but the novelty wears off after about ten minutes!

The sidebar's a nice touch: I've got News 24 in a little box and can listen to all manner of radio stations without opening a browser.

Stability wise, I've only had a couple of moments. It seems to occasionally hang when shutting down, I've known it take up to ten minutes to sort itself out. Not sure if it's installing updates or something, but if so it would only be polite to let me know! I've had a couple of "Windows has recovered from an unexpected shutdown" messages too.

I don't do anything massively intensive eg gaming, but Vista hammers along nicely with 1Gb of memory. I shoved another gig in just (because I could really) and tbh can't really tell the difference.

Overall there's nothing in Vista which has made me go "wow", but I certainly wouldn't go back to XP. If anybody's on the fence, my advice would be to go for it.

:)

[Storm]

I haven't used/seen Vista yet....my home computer has XP and my work desktop and laptop has Windows 2000 :\ (which I am getting tired of, but have to use since some software I use needs that OS)

[ChrisS]

I've been using Vista business since January and I have no complains. they run fast and without any serious problems

My main problem is that once again they don't really have good multi-screen support.

I updated from XP but only because I was given a free legal copy of Vista. If I would have to pay for them then I would wait until I got a new computer

[SOD]

Windows 98 could run anything that I ever need to use on a computer, so I don't think I need to upgrade. :p

same here. I don't know if its 98, or the 800MHz processor, but the flash animations cause firsefox to slow down. The crappy flash animations must need lots of processing power. :dork:

[Mark]

Daniel, I think the flash problem is due to IE7 not Vista. I get the same issue on XP.

[Sleeper]

I've had Vista for a month or two here and no real problems at all,good system.

[Erki]

I currently have 4 computers in my household - 1 desktop and 3 laptops...
Desktop is now nearly 4 years old but is still going pretty strong with its XP(pirate :uhoh: ). Laptop #1 has is something like 18 months old, it's a Dell. And it has an illegal XP again. :\ Not really the best puter in the world, to be honest. Laptop #2 is an Acer that came with XP already installed. It's the best computer in the world. Super fast. :up: And how light it is! :s hock: Laptop #3 came only maybe 2 months ago. With Vista... The only good things that came with it were those sample pictures that it originally shows on the sidebar slideshow. Some good photography. :) Everything else on it is pure crap and I am going to use XP for as long as M$ lets me.*

*If you're using MSN Messenger then you obviously know that you're now forced to use the new Windows Live Messenger.

[J4MIE]

Well I tried my hardest to install XP on my PC earlier this year, and it stubbornly refused to let me :angryfire So I can't install the newest version of media player, IE (I think) or stuff like that.

Frankly, 2000 is doing everything I need it to and I just can't be bothered backing all my stuff up to try installing a new OS and then have to sort it all out and learn it after installing.

I saw vista on a laptop in a shop once, but was for about 10 seconds and I fell asleep through Daniel's post (looks like before he did :p : ) so I guess you could say that I'm not really bothered :\

[tinchote]

Used Vista for the first time today. The interface was ok. The UAC was really annoying and it would be the first thing I would turn off.

[Erki]

What's UAC?

[Daniel]

What's UAC?
Using Vista and not knowing what UAC is = Meeting Barbara Streisand and not noticing her huge frigging nose :laugh:

[Daniel]

Well I tried my hardest to install XP on my PC earlier this year, and it stubbornly refused to let me :angryfire So I can't install the newest version of media player, IE (I think) or stuff like that.

Frankly, 2000 is doing everything I need it to and I just can't be bothered backing all my stuff up to try installing a new OS and then have to sort it all out and learn it after installing.

I saw vista on a laptop in a shop once, but was for about 10 seconds and I fell asleep through Daniel's post (looks like before he did :p : ) so I guess you could say that I'm not really bothered :\
What was the problem? I could possibly "fix" it for you :p

[Daniel]

*If you're using MSN Messenger then you obviously know that you're now forced to use the new Windows Live Messenger.

Saying that is like saying when I drive to work I'm FORCED to drive on the A55. I'm not FORCED to drive on the A55 but it's the best way for me to get here (work).

Lets recap

ICQ. Crap
Yahoo Messenger. OK but no MSN
AIM. Don't make me laugh. I'd rather self mutilate than install AOL software :uhoh:
Trillian. OK I guess.

I'm sure Microsoft could bundle Trillian, AIM, ICQ and Yahoo messenger with Vista but the only people who'd use them would be those who were already going to download them.

[Daniel]

Daniel, I think the flash problem is due to IE7 not Vista. I get the same issue on XP.
It did happen sometimes for me with IE6 and bit more with IE7 on XP but it's been a while since I've used IE7 on XP :mark: I do think if Adobe make the plugin they should support it and make it work properly. Rumour has it that Adobe isn't happy with Microsoft over their XPS standard which has the potential to kill off PDF and are dragging their feet with regards to sorting the problems ;) Wouldn't be the first time a company had delivered dodgey goods just to make another company look bad.

[Erki]

Daniel, I see that you probably started using WLM right away when it came out, hence you couldn't know what I meant with them forcing me use WLM. :) I agree, AIM, Yahoo, ICQ, ETC :) are not as good as MSN.

The thing is, now some time ago when I wanted to log in with my MSN Messsenger 7.5, it told me to install WLM in order to continue. No way to use the 7.5 version any more. And WLM sucks - it's slow and ugly, I don't know what MS was thinking when they came out with the WLM. :\ (and it wastes a lot of RAM too).

[Mark]

What is UAC? Not answering when someone has specifically asked is rude.

[Erki]

Using Vista and not knowing what UAC is = Meeting Barbara Streisand and not noticing her huge frigging nose :laugh:

Goes to show how much I need those bells and whistles on Vista. :)

Btw, one thing that Vista doesn't (seem to) have and XP has: when browsing folders in Windows Explorer(or whatever it is called now), you now only have the "back" button on toolbar, but no "up" button. And to me, this is a big thing. :)

[Daniel]

What is UAC? Not answering when someone has specifically asked is rude.
Sorry.

UAC or as I prefer to call it "OMFG you're trying to do something with your PC" is basically there to shield more novice users from viruses and worms that on XP would have just installed without you noticing. Now if you so much as try to delete a file or installs a program you'll be greated with a screen saying "OMFG ALERT ALERT!!!!! Someone's trying to delete a file or install a program. Do you really want to do this?" which is great for people who go to website which "drive by" attacks which may have installed themselves without you even knowing on XP while running IE6.

Good feature for the unwashed masses but for anyone who has any idea about how to use a PC will just be frustrated. A lot of programs that won't install properly or work properly in Vista work fine with UAC off :)

[Daniel]

Goes to show how much I need those bells and whistles on Vista. :)

Btw, one thing that Vista doesn't (seem to) have and XP has: when browsing folders in Windows Explorer(or whatever it is called now), you now only have the "back" button on toolbar, but no "up" button. And to me, this is a big thing. :)
True but it's redundant to a certain extent :)

If you're in the MSN directory in Program files it will display in the explorer bar as Program Files >> MSN and to go back you just click on program files :)

[Daniel]

Daniel, I see that you probably started using WLM right away when it came out, hence you couldn't know what I meant with them forcing me use WLM. :) I agree, AIM, Yahoo, ICQ, ETC :) are not as good as MSN.

The thing is, now some time ago when I wanted to log in with my MSN Messsenger 7.5, it told me to install WLM in order to continue. No way to use the 7.5 version any more. And WLM sucks - it's slow and ugly, I don't know what MS was thinking when they came out with the WLM. :\ (and it wastes a lot of RAM too).
This a byproduct of the whole Windows is full of holes and you're going to get spyware and viruses and worms if you use MS software attitude that people have. Basically if Microsoft want to fix a vulnerability in Messenger and there are 10 different versions of it out there then they have to do 10x the amount of code, 10x the amount of testing and so on. If they didn't update older versions and people were affected then you'd cry about them not updating you to the newest version of Messenger.

I still call it MSN Messenger because to me it's no different to MSN Messenger other than the name and some additional features.

Live Messenger never ran slow on our old PC :mark: Will have to see how much memory it uses on our current PC when I get home.

[J4MIE]

What was the problem? I could possibly "fix" it for you :p

I can't recall 100% but it was while loading the setup files onto the PC (first step of installation) it froze and refused to continue. Can't remember if there was an error message or not.

So I tried that, tried Vista but same error (I think). So then I had to go and reinstall 2k again.

[Daniel]

I can't recall 100% but it was while loading the setup files onto the PC (first step of installation) it froze and refused to continue. Can't remember if there was an error message or not.

So I tried that, tried Vista but same error (I think). So then I had to go and reinstall 2k again.
I had a similar sounding issue a couple of years ago. Was a hard drive or memory problem :mark:

[Donney]

It all seems a bit complicated for the average "dumb" user as myself.

[Camelopard]

Daniel, for some reason I always pictured you as a 'Linux' sort of person. Don't know why! :)

[Daniel]

It all seems a bit complicated for the average "dumb" user as myself.
What seems complicated? :) I'm more than happy to help you with any difficulties :)

[Erki]

Uh, I guess I now understand what you mean with the UAC. Yes, it's quite annoying. :\

Re WLM: it would be good if the interface stayed the same. :\ It's now so "flashy", but not flashy either, just... makes things slow. One good thing the WLM has though - it seems to upload your display pic and "personal message" so if you log in on any computer, your dp and pm stays the same. Quite handy. :up: Don't remember if the same goes to the type font too, will check it out.

[Daniel]

Uh, I guess I now understand what you mean with the UAC. Yes, it's quite annoying. :\

Re WLM: it would be good if the interface stayed the same. :\ It's now so "flashy", but not flashy either, just... makes things slow. One good thing the WLM has though - it seems to upload your display pic and "personal message" so if you log in on any computer, your dp and pm stays the same. Quite handy. :up: Don't remember if the same goes to the type font too, will check it out.
What's different about the interface? :mark:

I seem to remember you mentioning the word "Celeron" when talking to me about your PC's once. Having a Celeron CPU in your PC will always mean that your PC is about 2 or so years behind most mainstream PC's out at the time. The internet is becoming demanding on PC's. No longer can you have a slow PC and expect web stuff to work fast. Laptops are always going to be "slow" anyway no matter how good they are.

[Erki]

What's different about the interface? :mark:

I seem to remember you mentioning the word "Celeron" when talking to me about your PC's once. Having a Celeron CPU in your PC will always mean that your PC is about 2 or so years behind most mainstream PC's out at the time. The internet is becoming demanding on PC's. No longer can you have a slow PC and expect web stuff to work fast. Laptops are always going to be "slow" anyway no matter how good they are.

I don't know what's different. :) But something is different. :) It just doesn't have the same good old feel. ;(

And my laptop #2 is faaaaast. At least fast enough for me. :)

/me will never get a desktop pc again

[Daniel]

I don't know what's different. :) But something is different. :) It just doesn't have the same good old feel. ;(

And my laptop #2 is faaaaast. At least fast enough for me. :)

/me will never get a desktop pc again
Newsflash Eki :) Newer software always carries with it higher system requirements.

[Erki]

That's so ironic. Imagine a new car model that comes with a higher fuel consumption. :s hock:

If there's one thing with WLM that puts me off then it's that when I click on the system tray icon and go to "send an instant message", it lists me all my contacts. :s #%(¤ If I want to send someone an IM or just check who's online, I'm obviously looking for those people who are online, not offline. :rolleyes: Yeah yeah, now you can send messages to offline contacts too but how much do you do it anyway? :\

Or maybe I should just press F1 button. :p

[Daniel]

That's so ironic. Imagine a new car model that comes with a higher fuel consumption.

If there's one thing with WLM that puts me off then it's that when I click on the system tray icon and go to "send an instant message", it lists me all my contacts. :s #%(¤ If I want to send someone an IM or just check who's online, I'm obviously looking for those people who are online, not offline. :rolleyes: Yeah yeah, now you can send messages to offline contacts too but how much do you do it anyway? :\

Or maybe I should just press F1 button. :p
Yes and in other news the newest version of Half Life is going to run well on 386's :laugh:

[Donney]

What seems complicated? :) I'm more than happy to help you with any difficulties :)


I'm sure you would, actually I'm counting on this forum/your help when I switch to Vista. :D

I meant all those you wrote about sound "high-tech" for the ones like me, who just turn thew computer on, browse/work/lose time for a while and that's all.

[Daniel]

It's all low tech stuff really ;) Vista's dead easy to use if you've used XP :)

[Erki]

XP is easier. :p

And connecting Vista with my other 3 computers was like... nothing like low-tech. :\

[Daniel]

XP is easier. :p

And connecting Vista with my other 3 computers was like... nothing like low-tech. :\
Will be sorted in Vista Sp1 ;)

[Langdale Forest]

I have had Windows Vista since June and it is great. :)

[airshifter]

I have to guess that overall Vista isn't doing as well as planned. Microsoft has extended the deadline for sales of XP once again.

I think it's rather funny when people are often saying "I like it except for the problems, which they will fix in the new SP."

Strange, I've heard that before. :laugh:

[tinchote]

I have to guess that overall Vista isn't doing as well as planned. Microsoft has extended the deadline for sales of XP once again.

I think it's rather funny when people are often saying "I like it except for the problems, which they will fix in the new SP."

Strange, I've heard that before. :laugh:


I don't really see the problem.

The fact that many corporate users would wait until SP1 was mentioned even before Vista's release, as it seems to be standard practice these days.

As for the problems, which OS doesn't have them, exactly?

[Daniel]

I have to guess that overall Vista isn't doing as well as planned. Microsoft has extended the deadline for sales of XP once again.

I think it's rather funny when people are often saying "I like it except for the problems, which they will fix in the new SP."

Strange, I've heard that before. :laugh:
What should I say? "I love it because of the problems which they'll fix in the new SP?" :confused:

[janneppi]

I have to guess that overall Vista isn't doing as well as planned. Microsoft has extended the deadline for sales of XP once again.

I think it's rather funny when people are often saying "I like it except for the problems, which they will fix in the new SP."

Strange, I've heard that before. :laugh:
The offer to sell Vistas easily upgradeable to XP for businesses, was also funny, smart, but funny. ;)

[Azumanga Davo]

Vista is a pile of crock if you fancy running a few games on your machine.

I couldn't run the latest drag racing game on a Vista machine, because Valusoft (the makers of the game) said it didn't and wouldn't have direct support for the OS, which is very unusual for a new game barely out a year at the time. Plus I had a sh*t of a time doing basic chores like opening files and saving files as in some prgrams I use it wasn't very clear how to d such things.

So this PC is now converted from a Vista to XP, simply because it was a poor OS usability wise for me.

[Daniel]

Vista is a pile of crock if you fancy running a few games on your machine.

I couldn't run the latest drag racing game on a Vista machine, because Valusoft (the makers of the game) said it didn't and wouldn't have direct support for the OS, which is very unusual for a new game barely out a year at the time. Plus I had a sh*t of a time doing basic chores like opening files and saving files as in some prgrams I use it wasn't very clear how to d such things.

So this PC is now converted from a Vista to XP, simply because it was a poor OS usability wise for me.
So I take it that it's Nissan/Datsun's fault that you can't put a Subaru flat 4 engine in your Z car? ;) You're looking at it the wrong way ;) Valusoft should support Vista in new games :) All of the games I've bought in the last 2 years work on Vista.

The main purpose of my PC other than Caroline doing teacher stuff on it and web browsing is infact gaming and it does this well :)

[Azumanga Davo]

So I take it that it's Nissan/Datsun's fault that you can't put a Subaru flat 4 engine in your Z car? You're looking at it the wrong way ;) Valusoft should support Vista in new games All of the games I've bought in the last 2 years work on Vista.

The main purpose of my PC other than Caroline doing teacher stuff on it and web browsing is infact gaming and it does this well :)

At the time, all I could get from the Valusoft tech support folk was a shrug of the shoulders and a 'It's fine on XP.' I'm pleased I made the switch, as there was a fair amount of stuff that didn't like Vista (I have some really old games still going).

And don't insult me with that Subaru rubbish you went on about. :D Silly man. ;) Plenty of room for much more than that besides...

[airshifter]

I don't really see the problem.

The fact that many corporate users would wait until SP1 was mentioned even before Vista's release, as it seems to be standard practice these days.

As for the problems, which OS doesn't have them, exactly?

Maybe that's why my point of view differs, as for many years my computers were primarily for business reasons.

If the software was stable and allowed people to be more productive, the business world would be the first to jump on it. In reality the business world is usually forced into it, after the rest of the consumers get it for the flashy new interface.

[airshifter]

The offer to sell Vistas easily upgradeable to XP for businesses, was also funny, smart, but funny. ;)

Just as funny was how quick several major computer companies decided that they were going to lose sales if they forced Vista on people, and suddenly had a change of heart.

Upgrade your hardware, sort out the bugs, and learn the new interface so you can..... say you have the newer OS? :laugh:

[janneppi]

I'm hoping the move to Vista in my office doesn't mess up our systems too much, the idiots at tech center refuse to give me a Opera browser because it would be too much work, but are happy to enforce a new operating system on me. :(

[Mark]

No signs of any vista upgrades at here (Newcastle University).

It took them 2 years to move from Windows 2000 to Windows XP so I expect the same may happen here. Besides, many of the machines we use here are below the basic Vista recommended spec, we are a computing science department but we have powerful servers to do the number crunching, our desktop PC's don't need to do anything more strenuous than read email and have an SSH window open.

[harsha]

didn't like the Vista...sure it looks good but i actually felt the XP was faster transfering files and installing stuff..

mind i'd gotten a hardware upgrade before i installed vista,got 1GB RAM and a new graphics card....the xp seems so much better

[Mark]

Perhaps the slowness is the learning process stuff which Dave and Daniel spoke of?

[Daniel]

Perhaps the slowness is the learning process stuff which Dave and Daniel spoke of?
It's being dealt with in SP1 ;) Vista does go a little slow at times when copying files :mark:

[harsha]

yeah everything's being taken care of in SP1.... :D

that's what they always say...i say go to linux :D

[Daniel]

yeah everything's being taken care of in SP1.... :D

that's what they always say...i say go to linux :D
Would you prefer nothing be sorted in SP1? :mark:

[harsha]

it doesn't matter now anyway...downgraded to winxp sp2 :D

[harsha]

and about the GUI of windows vista...the GUI of DreamLinux is much better...

[Mark]

But linux is irrelevant to most people.

[harsha]

no it isn't...it's just a myth that linux is too tough and all that...i have never had a linux operating system crash on me...and you can just about run anything that windows does,for an average user browsing the web,sending and recieving emails,songs...that does the job and more...

compare that to the number of times the windows vista/xp will crash on you

and i meant the DreamLinux XGL

[harsha]

using the windows only for playing games right now,for everything else,it's the linux

[tinchote]

no it isn't...it's just a myth that linux is too tough and all that...i have never had a linux operating system crash on me...and you can just about run anything that windows does,for an average user browsing the web,sending and recieving emails,songs...that does the job and more...

compare that to the number of times the windows vista/xp will crash on you

and i meant the DreamLinux XGL

I've had a Linux system crash on me. I've had a Silicon Graphics Unix crash on me. I've had an HP Apollo Unix crash on me. Let's not get into the "my OS is better than yours" again, please.

[tinchote]

It's being dealt with in SP1 ;) Vista does go a little slow at times when copying files :mark:


Slower than XP??? :eek:

While I'm a heavy XP user (2 PCs and one laptop, with one of the PCs running 24/7 for the last four years) and I don't have plans to change, I am constantly astonished at the incredible inefficiency of the netbios protocol. When copying files accross a network, XP cannot even use 10% of the available bandwith.

[Daniel]

no it isn't...it's just a myth that linux is too tough and all that...i have never had a linux operating system crash on me...and you can just about run anything that windows does,for an average user browsing the web,sending and recieving emails,songs...that does the job and more...

compare that to the number of times the windows vista/xp will crash on you

and i meant the DreamLinux XGL
You've obviously not been using linux enough then :) I used to work at a company which used Linux on it's data input stations and they were forever crashing and having issues.

[A.F.F.]

didn't like the Vista...sure it looks good but i actually felt the XP was faster transfering files and installing stuff..

mind i'd gotten a hardware upgrade before i installed vista,got 1GB RAM and a new graphics card....the xp seems so much better

Strange :mark: Whenever I'm copying my por... my important files, Vista definately is quicker than my xp.

Then again, I may have copyed too many por... important files with my xp that it turned out to be slow :D

[airshifter]

yeah everything's being taken care of in SP1.... :D

that's what they always say...i say go to linux :D

They probably still have issues that were going to be fixed in SP1 of Windows 95. :laugh:

[Crypt]

Been using Vista at work for quite sometime, since RC1, have very little issues. I had to use a crappy video card in my machine at work and was unable to utilize the WDDM (Vista) video drivers. This is the achillies heal of Vista since if your video card doesn't support Aero, you will get reverted back to XDDM drivers, and they are craptastic.

Make sure you have a video card that is supported by Vista and lots of ram.

[Daniel]

Been using Vista at work for quite sometime, since RC1, have very little issues. I had to use a crappy video card in my machine at work and was unable to utilize the WDDM (Vista) video drivers. This is the achillies heal of Vista since if your video card doesn't support Aero, you will get reverted back to XDDM drivers, and they are craptastic.

Make sure you have a video card that is supported by Vista and lots of ram.
Hehe Vista Basic mode ;)

[nicemms]

No signs of any vista upgrades at here (Newcastle University).

It took them 2 years to move from Windows 2000 to Windows XP so I expect the same may happen here. Besides, many of the machines we use here are below the basic Vista recommended spec, we are a computing science department but we have powerful servers to do the number crunching, our desktop PC's don't need to do anything more strenuous than read email and have an SSH window open.

Same here no signs of upgrading to Vista here either (Woodkirk School), we were on windows 98 till about 2003! We suffer the same problem as you, our pcs aren't good enough spec! Most of the PCs in the ICT suites are just about capable but as for the rest of the school - No!

Our Network manager(my boss) doesn't anticipate moving to vista for a good few years, probably when the software the various departments use become vista compatible. We've had our budget cut short recentley(well the ICT infrasrtucture one has) so I don't think we could afford to!

[allycat228]

I had to buy a new laptop which has vista on it, the only problem i have had is having to get a new modem because i am on aol and their modem do not work , on the plus side connection to the internet takes second where as it took about 5mins with xp

[Mark]

Vista sucks :(

[Dave B]

Having problems, oh creator? :p

[Daniel]

Sim City 4 won't work :p

[tinchote]

Sim City 4 won't work :p

That has to be terrible! :laugh:

[Erki]

Vista de luxe trick: open cmd.exe, and type in ribbons.scr /p65552 and hit Enter.

:s mokin:

I :love: Vista. :p

[Dave B]

It's being dealt with in SP1 ;) Vista does go a little slow at times when copying files :mark:
I've just installed SP1 RC1 and am pleased to report that when moving a 5Gb folder around the computer and network I didn't once see the dreaded "Calculating" box. It starts up and shuts down quicker too. If I find any other goodies I'll report back :D

[Daniel]

I did too :) Office 2007 sp1 is also out if you have it and didn't know. I couldn't honestly go back to xp at home and if work want to give one of our support desk which I work on Vista I'm going to jump at the opportunity.

[Dave B]

Office SP1 automatically installed in the wee small hours. Previously I'd had issues with Outlook hanging for about 30 seconds when it was first opened, now it's faultless.

Even the BBC are doing updates today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta/ :)

[janneppi]

I've dabbled with Vista for 30 minutes and absolutely hate it. :)
Everything is in the wrong place, I did make mistake of getting a Finnish version of it, which is about the same difficulty level if a non Finn would use it.

I might have to choose the classic theme to get anything done with it. :)

[Daniel]

I've dabbled with Vista for 30 minutes and absolutely hate it. :)
Everything is in the wrong place, I did make mistake of getting a Finnish version of it, which is about the same difficulty level if a non Finn would use it.

I might have to choose the classic theme to get anything done with it. :)

Ok what's in the wrong place? :) I'll tell you how to get there twice as easy. You can go back to classic and it'll be easier for now but the stock settings in Vista are easier to use in the long run ;)

Another cool tip which my boss at work showed me.

start> click in search> type in c :\ > first letter of directory you want which will bring up a list of directories (press down to scroll through the directories) > repeat until you get to the directory or file you want.

A lot quicker than XP where you have to scroll through lots of stuff to find what you need.

The only recent problem I've had with Vista is that it doesn't support the tilting function of my monitor. Luckily the graphics card software does but it doesn't work automatically like it does with the monitor software.

[Daniel]

Office SP1 automatically installed in the wee small hours. Previously I'd had issues with Outlook hanging for about 30 seconds when it was first opened, now it's faultless.

Even the BBC are doing updates today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta/ :)
That's so cool.

At work my PC came with a Dell version of http://www.google.co.uk/ig which I really like and that BBC beta site is a really good implementation of that on a site that it's worth doing to! :)

[Daniel]

Just chucked the Simpons Movie DVD into the drive and it fired up even though I don't have any DVD software installed like you used to have to with XP :)

[Dave B]

Woo-hoo! :p

I won't be buying it as I've got a sneaky feeling it might already be under our tree ;)

[janneppi]

Ok what's in the wrong place? :) I'll tell you how to get there twice as easy. You can go back to classic and it'll be easier for now but the stock settings in Vista are easier to use in the long run ;)


Well, the bloody main bars seemed to be missing, just now I was trying to paste a link in to IRC channel using PuTTY, since I don't remember the key code by heart, where is the edit -> paste button? :D

[Daniel]

Get into the 21st century dude ;-) Ctrl-c to copy ctrl-x to cut and ctrl-v to paste. If the main bars are hidden press alt to bring them up.

[306 Cosworth]

The only reason I don't like Vista is because I can install any new cars on Richard Burns Rally :( It won't save the .txt file when you change the car names :( Is rather annoying!

[Daniel]

Do you have uac turned on? If you do then program files are not stored in program files(strange I know). Not on my pc atm but will explain when I am.

[306 Cosworth]

What does UAC stand for?
Well if I go into programme files, then the folderfor RBR is there, SCi Games it's under then click through all the folders to get to the file I want, click on file, change it then try to save it, but won't let me, says something like is file path correct which it is! :s

[Daniel]

I take that as meaning you do have it on :p As I said if you have uac turned on your program files won't really be in there. Trust me on that one young padawan. It's one of the strangest things I've seen.

[306 Cosworth]

I take that as meaning you do have it on :p As I said if you have uac turned on your program files won't really be in there. Trust me on that one young padawan. It's one of the strangest things I've seen.


Ok I trust you Daniel, so if I turn it off then it should hopefully work I could install new cars? Trouble is, how do I turn it off? :p :

[Daniel]

Go into control panel and then into users and it should be easy enough to find. Not on the pc so can't look now.

[Daniel]

C :\ Users\<your username here>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files

Have a look in here 306cosworth :)

[306 Cosworth]

Found it thanks Daniel, will re-install RBR and see if it works now!

[Daniel]

Found it thanks Daniel, will re-install RBR and see if it works now!
Shouldn't need to reinstall. Should just need to point any updates or edit new files in the directory in there :)

[F1nostalgic]

I love Vista. I have used it since April and it is very great. Better than XP. When I was on XP, the wireless PCI card would drop the wireless connection a lot, on Vista, this has never happened once. :D

[306 Cosworth]

Shouldn't need to reinstall. Should just need to point any updates or edit new files in the directory in there :)

I uninstalled it coz I got pi$$ed off with it that I couldn't add any new cars :p

[odykas]

8 months?

format c: /s is coming http://www.thelab.gr/images/smilies/hehe.gif

[Andrewmcm]

8 months, and still not used it yet. I'll wait for SP1 before I even think about it...

[Daniel]

8 months, and still not used it yet. I'll wait for SP1 before I even think about it...
SP1 release candidate is out now :) SP1 will probably be out in late January or so.

For tOadie :)

Summary of problems people have had on this thread.
306Cosworth - Richard Burns Rally doesn't work 100% (seems to works fine for me incidently)
MonaroDoorslammer - The company that made his drag racing game didn't want to do any work to make sure it worked with Vista.
Daniel - Network hibernation problem
Daniel - File copying problem
Dave B - Setting up networking with an XP machine was difficult

Other than 306's issue with RBR which seems to be an issue with UAC all the issues listed above have been sorted prior to or with SP1.

This is exactly what happens when a new version of Windows comes out. Lots of people rabbit on about how crap it is and then when the next one comes out they say how the one that they were previously rubbishing is fine and does everything they need it to do. Everyone disliked XP when it came out and it's only because Microsoft pulled their fingers out of their behinds and came along with SP2 that anyone actually considers it a decent operating system.

At the end of the day you can whinge about the future or you can embrace it and make the best out of it. Vista is far easier to use than XP. Perhaps I've been lucky having the benefit of using it since 2005 but it's pretty much idiot proof and both of my parents were able to do what they needed to do when they were here on holiday without help. Like I said don't upgrade to Vista if you already have XP on your PC but if you are buying a new PC then don't go for XP. You'll only regret it when Windows 7 comes out and you've not used Vista and everything seems even more strange!

[Mp3 Astra]

I've been using Vista for 2 months and I'm largely happy with it; although some bugs have started to creep in that I don't know how to fix. One being that it forgets all my power settings unless I change them every day (it'll forget what the power button does, and how long it should wait before sleeping).

Some programs that ran fine on XP have a few problems but overall I'm very happy with the system.

SP1 won't cost MONEY will it? :p :

[Daniel]

I've been using Vista for 2 months and I'm largely happy with it; although some bugs have started to creep in that I don't know how to fix. One being that it forgets all my power settings unless I change them every day (it'll forget what the power button does, and how long it should wait before sleeping).

Some programs that ran fine on XP have a few problems but overall I'm very happy with the system.

SP1 won't cost MONEY will it? :p :
Not a penny. If you owned a Mac you'd have to pay to do a service pack though :)

[Erki]

The "networking with XP-machines" thing is a major hassle. We got a computer with Vista some 4 months ago, and we already had one.. no, two... no, three... with XPs on them. We have some sort of networking thing now, but it's still not working well... couldn't bother with it any more...

And I still haven't understood where does that miraculous ease of use manifests... for me, XP is just about as easy to use as Vista. Maybe I'm a genius then. :idea:

[Daniel]

Did I say it wasn't a problem? :confused:

[Andrewmcm]

Do you work for Microsoft or something Daniel?

[Daniel]

Do you work for Microsoft or something Daniel?
No

[airshifter]

The "networking with XP-machines" thing is a major hassle. We got a computer with Vista some 4 months ago, and we already had one.. no, two... no, three... with XPs on them. We have some sort of networking thing now, but it's still not working well... couldn't bother with it any more...

And I still haven't understood where does that miraculous ease of use manifests... for me, XP is just about as easy to use as Vista. Maybe I'm a genius then. :idea:


Most versions of Windows don't like to network across two different platforms. Often Win95, Win98, and XP machines would set up fine as a network, then on occasion simply crash themselves for no apparent reason.


As for ease of use, just about anything you can customize to some extent has ease of use. They label it something new and people go for it. Just as some people still seem to think that it was impossible to multi-task before Windows came along.


It's another version of a user interface that has many things that most people will never use, just like the old ones. And just like the old ones it will take more hardware and resources to do so, just so you can have something that looks different and doesn't do much of anything for productivity.

[Daniel]

Most versions of Windows don't like to network across two different platforms. Often Win95, Win98, and XP machines would set up fine as a network, then on occasion simply crash themselves for no apparent reason.


As for ease of use, just about anything you can customize to some extent has ease of use. They label it something new and people go for it. Just as some people still seem to think that it was impossible to multi-task before Windows came along.


It's another version of a user interface that has many things that most people will never use, just like the old ones. And just like the old ones it will take more hardware and resources to do so, just so you can have something that looks different and doesn't do much of anything for productivity.

I hope you're happy on your 386 with Dos 6.2 :)

With Windows it's all about compromises. Windows XP was the first consumer windows edition to not run on top of DOS and hence was a lot better and didn't crash all the time like ME, 98 and 95. Why didn't they just remove DOS from the equation? Why? Because at that stage a lot of people still had a lot of applications and they'd be pretty unhappy if support disappeared so quickly so Windows kept supporting DOS programs at the expense of stability. The thing is Mac can pretty much ditch their whole OS, make it incompatible with all previous hardware and people would worship them for it and the ones who could understand would understand why it was done. With Windows every man and his dog uses it so when Vista comes out and John Smith tries to install it on his Celeron M laptop with 512mb of ram and onboard graphics he's going to bitch about how it's now so much slower than XP used to be.

So what if most people won't use the full capabilities of the interface. I think Ferrari should detune their cars to around 70bhp because most people won't use the full capabilities of the car.

As for requirements have a look at the OSX Leopard requirements and compare them to the Vista requirements. They're more or less the same and if you want to whinge about Vista requiring more power than XP then compare Leopard to Tiger or OSX 10.1 (a better comparison to XP) and see how much more power Leopard requires over tiger. It's the way things work. Software companies like this. Because if they say "Works on Vista only" they can guarantee a certain level of hardware and won't get people calling up complaining about the level of performance they're getting on their 486 :dozey: I fail to see the problem with increasing requirements for the average person. The next PC you buy is going to be better than your current one so why not make use of the increase in power?

[Erki]

Did I say it wasn't a problem? :confused:

Why should I buy problem-ridden software?

[Daniel]

Have you ever seen a perfect piece of software?

[Erki]

Have you ever seen a perfect piece of software?

Yes.

[markabilly]

the real reson for vista or so I am told was to enable the duo2and quad duos 2 to work better and faster, but is that really true?

[airshifter]

I hope you're happy on your 386 with Dos 6.2 :)



Actually I have DOS software that multi-tasked as well as Windoze ever has, and would run fine on a 386 computer with 1 meg of memory. It installed and ran fine without the use of terms such as reboot, restart, reinstall, BSOD, updates, revisions, patches, etc.

You keep claiming that people whine about Windows, yet you keep trying to claim you have the answers to Microsofts problems. I might have believed Microsoft and their promise of fixes back many years ago when I was involved in the beta testing for Win95, but I'll never believe them again with such claims.

[Daniel]

Yes.
My workmate was having issues with notepad. Although I think it was more him :)

Markabilly. XP Pro had good support for dual cores out of the box :) I doubt Vista will improve that much if at all.

Airshifter. I'm interested in this DOS you speak of :) Will it recognise the 4gb of memory my next PC will have plus the 512mb of memory on my graphics card? Will Steam run on it? Will Team Fortress 2 run on it? I'm very curious you know :)

If it was up to people like yourself we'd all still be driving around in Model T Ford's :laugh:

[Erki]

Hey, leave Vista alone! :mad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vje5LVSJYQI

[Daniel]

Good idea but the execution was a bit lame :(

[airshifter]

Airshifter. I'm interested in this DOS you speak of :) Will it recognise the 4gb of memory my next PC will have plus the 512mb of memory on my graphics card? Will Steam run on it? Will Team Fortress 2 run on it? I'm very curious you know :)

If it was up to people like yourself we'd all still be driving around in Model T Ford's :laugh:


That's the point though. That DOS program did (and still will) perform serious multi-tasking while recognizing only 1 meg of memory. I could spool to two sign plotters without it flinching, and still be creating new designs on the screen. I still use it from time to time to perform functions I've yet to find a Windows based program to do. It seems that with vasty greater resources available it tend to either lock up, slow to next to nothing, or create an error.


One is a Ferrari that looks like a Yugo. The other is a Yugo that looks like a Ferrari.


Function has a much greater priority to me over form.

[Daniel]

You have a point. But if you don't need a Ferrari then don't pay for one :) My mum uses Excel, Word and Internet Explorer to check email and browse the web and my dad checks email and looks at stuff on Youtube. They don't need anything too flashy or anything so they've got my PC which is now about 4 years old. But in 2 or 3 years time when they get another PC then I'll make sure it has Vista on it because they'll be guaranteed that it'll get updates, any programs they buy will support it and so on.

At the last place I worked at we used to get Pentium 1 machines in running Dos 6.2 which were used for data logging by large oil companies and they would spend thousands on getting them fixed and it makes sense because it would be a lot more difficult to get someone to write a totally new program for XP or Vista to do the most basic of operations. Just like for plotting a simple design Dos works just fine :)

[Andrewmcm]

The word you're looking for is "bloatware" as in 90% of people only use 10% of Word/Excel/Access/Vista/XPs functions. How many people would rather they just made the core stuff work well than having tonnes of extra glitz and glamour that serves very little useful purpose?

[airshifter]

You have a point. But if you don't need a Ferrari then don't pay for one :) My mum uses Excel, Word and Internet Explorer to check email and browse the web and my dad checks email and looks at stuff on Youtube. They don't need anything too flashy or anything so they've got my PC which is now about 4 years old. But in 2 or 3 years time when they get another PC then I'll make sure it has Vista on it because they'll be guaranteed that it'll get updates, any programs they buy will support it and so on.

At the last place I worked at we used to get Pentium 1 machines in running Dos 6.2 which were used for data logging by large oil companies and they would spend thousands on getting them fixed and it makes sense because it would be a lot more difficult to get someone to write a totally new program for XP or Vista to do the most basic of operations. Just like for plotting a simple design Dos works just fine :)

Daniel,

The plotting I'm speaking of is running sign cutting machines. Though I have only ever run two on that program, I'm fairly sure I could run as many as four at once. Similar to a print spooler, the program spooled to the machines while still allowing on screen design work. It's similar to driving CAD devices, and far from simplistic in terms of computers as resolutions were down well into thousandths of inches.

Windows choked trying to perform these same functions, even though it had access to all system resources to do so. I have no problem if a simple user interface takes more resources, but when the interface takes more resources and keeps the primary concerns from working it's another issue. With 512 times more available memory, more than enough hard disk space, and in theory much better display drivers and resource management, Windows couldn't handle it.

If later versions of Windows used resources in an efficient manner, even a Pentium or PII machine would be blazing fast. The bloated code and problems don't allow this to happen. When it becomes so over saturated with code that really does nothing but provide a different interface, it seems that they have lost perspective on function as a primary concern.

In attempts to make Windows user friendly and somewhat idiot proof, they have destroyed it for those that would rather set their own hardware resources to a configuration that works, rather than use the "plug and pray" method.

[Daniel]

The thing is when you've got hardware involved you've got issues such as driver support. Like I said if whatever works for you, works and is fast enough then why change? But I'm sure you don't use DOS at home for going on the internet and doing things your average user would do.

[Valve Bounce]

I got my XP (Home Edition) with my Dell, and my MechWarrior4Mercs MekTek MP-3 runs OK. Seeing that I got my own Windows XP with my PC, I don't think I'd bother with anything else until this PC goes kaput, and I have to buy a new one. Then, I'll make sure I get a Windows program and not just the recovery thing when I buy my new PC.

[306 Cosworth]

I got a new download today from Microsoft, it was SP1 for Microsoft Office! Anyone else got this yet?

[Daniel]

Both Dave and myself have had it for a while.