No1 at Ferrari in 08?

[seppefan]

So will the team offer Alonso no1 status? Not sure Kimi will like that and if they do not then will Alonso play his sulking games again in 08 ? Reckon that Kimi will be the one who says enough is enough.



[No doubt the mod will merge this but I have set up this new thread as they all get submerged and lost in the process when popped onto one thread only.]

[janneppi]

If the discussion topic is who will be the No1 driver at Ferrari, we have to wait for the next season progresses enough, Neither Kimi or Massa have earned a spot from the beginning of the 2008 season. If by some chance Alonso joins Ferrari, he won't get preferencial treatment, Kimi's salary has made sure of that. You don't pay 30 million a year to a driver and have him/her play second fiddle from the start. ;)

[seppefan]

If by some chance Alonso joins Ferrari, he won't get preferencial treatment, Kimi's salary has made sure of that. You don't pay 30 million a year to a driver and have him/her play second fiddle from the start. ;)

That is exactly my point......what does alonso achieve by moving in terms of number one status, nothing. So how will he handle it ?

[Juppe]

That is exactly my point......what does alonso achieve by moving in terms of number one status, nothing. So how will he handle it ?

If Ferrari is stupid enough to take Fernando and Fernando is stupid enough to go there, it will end up in tears.

Fernando has proven that he is some sort of sociopath who is capable of working in a hostile environment, but moaning and backstabbing your own team is not usually tolerated very well at Ferrari, so I don't think it would work.

[ShiftingGears]

"If Ferrari is stupid enough to take Fernando and Fernando is stupid enough to go there, it will end up in tears."

Sums it all up really...it won't happen.

[seppefan]

Why is Massa looking then ?

[ShiftingGears]

link please.

[Buzz Lightyear]

link please.

http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~154835.htm

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe Ron will want some money in return if he is to let Alonso depart.

[ShiftingGears]

That is being based off what the Daily Mail writes...

Would you trust them to put honest reporting before a good story? ;)

[seppefan]

From AR1




http://www.autoracing1.com/Images/PageStuff/Button_Speculation.gif
Alonso to replace Massa UPDATE #2 (GMM) Speculation is rife that Fernando Alonso could be about to drop a bomb on the formula one silly-season. Felipe Massa was spotted by paddock observers meeting with Toyota officials at Spa-Francorchamps, sparking rumors that he might need to vacate his Ferrari seat for 2008.
The tale ties in with fresh speculation that Jean Todt - whose son Nicolas manages Brazilian Massa, 26 - is increasingly under pressure to keep his top job at Ferrari, and also Toyota's reluctance so far to confirm a teammate for Jarno Trulli in 2008.
It has long been suggested that reigning world champion Alonso's most likely destination, if he leaves McLaren after a single unhappy season, is his former camp at Renault.
But the Ferrari gossip, raising the prospect of the Spaniard's pairing with Kimi Raikkonen next year, is now gathering strength, including in the pages of the British newspaper The Daily Mail.
"One stumbling block exists, however," the report read. "Would Ferrari be willing to buy out the remainder of Alonso's contract with McLaren, believed to be worth at least (US) $20 million?"
09/22/07 There have been suggestions in recent days that negotiations between Ferrari and McLaren have included the sale of Fernando Alonso's McLaren contract to Ferrari - in exchange for a sizeable sum of money. This would rid McLaren of the Alonso problem, provide funding to pay the $100M fine (and to acquire another driver) and give Ferrari a stronger driver line-up in the future.

09/20/07 There is no doubt that part of the negotiation going on at Spa last weekend was to find a way for Fernando Alonso to get out of his McLaren contract. Our spies suggest that while everyone seems to think that Fernando will wash up at Renault, it is much more likely that he will be popping up as Kimi Raikkonen's team-mate at Ferrari. The Italian team would obviously have to pay a considerable sum of money in order to achieve that goal but no doubt that money could be used by McLaren to find a replacement and perhaps even to pay its fine.
Alonso was busy doing the rounds in Spa and was spotted at Red Bull Racing, which can only be seen as a courtesy call, rather than something serious. At the same time the sharp-eyed observers will have seen Felipe Massa visiting Toyota.
We also hear that a group of Ferrari owners recently visited the factory in Italy and were told by a senior Ferrari man that there was a possibility that Alonso would drive for Ferrari next season and that the team was working on a deal. More at Grandprix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19670.html) [Editor's Note: Do not forget that now Renault are third in the manufacturers championship, because of McLaren’s exclusion. This will result in more money from the FOM and activate clauses in the ING contract with Renault to pay more.]

[ioan]

From AR1

The tale ties in with fresh speculation that Jean Todt - whose son Nicolas manages Brazilian Massa, 26 - is increasingly under pressure to keep his top job at Ferrari

Winning all those titles with Jean Todt at Ferrari is in no way a reason to put pressure on him. :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

Ok, the fact that he was seen with Toyota guys gives a little substance to the speculation. I can't see Massa leaving though.

[veeten]

"If Ferrari is stupid enough to take Fernando and Fernando is stupid enough to go there, it will end up in tears."

Sums it all up really...it won't happen.

why not, its happened before...

just ask Eddie Irvine.

[ShiftingGears]

But unlike Irvine, Massa is much closer to his teammates abilities. And I think Ferrari would have a lot more team cohesion with Massa than Alonso.

[Trqster]

But unlike Irvine, Massa is much closer to his teammates abilities. And I think Ferrari would have a lot more team cohesion with Massa than Alonso.

Is he really? He didn't compare that favorably in the past against Michael Schumacher and now it seems that Kimi is also getting the upper hand.

The pairing of Kimi and Alonso would be a great one, but like some have already expressed before it won't end well for sure... It seems that Alonso simply isn't a team player and problems will likely arise anywhere he'll drive...

[Sleeper]

If Alonso goes to Ferrari, then I think he would be more willing to take a joint No1 role their than at McLaren. After all, he would be partnering a driver who has more experience and fought for 3 world championships and lost them through car problems, not lack of talent, wereas he was partnering a rookie this and expected to be showing him the ropes.

Still, if Kimi starts getting the upper hand on Alonso regularly then we could see his toys flying out of the pram again.

[GP-M3]

[No doubt the mod will merge this but I have set up this new thread as they all get submerged and lost in the process when popped onto one thread only.]

Agreed, the MODS here are way too trigger happy in merging threads and it makes them disappear and harder to follow. Lighten up guys.


If Ferrari is stupid enough to take Fernando and Fernando is stupid enough to go there, it will end up in tears.



Yes, well said. Hopefully this will not happen. I don't see the upside to this.


link please.

The old "link please" always sounds a bit annoying, and shifts the proof back to those who keep up on this stuff. I see from below you were sincere in not believing this, but still, it is a glib and easy way out of the argument which I only ever see on this board. <sigh>


Is he really? He didn't compare that favorably in the past against Michael Schumacher and now it seems that Kimi is also getting the upper hand.


I agree. Massa is very quick in qualifying, even as he was last year, but have we really seen anything wonderful from FM. He only seems to win when he is out front to begin with. But he made up almost no places when he started down the grid this year, (unlike Kimi and Micheal) and had some problems in the early races when he was behind the Macs. IMO he is not in KR, FA, MS's class when he needs to race from anything but the front.

[janneppi]

Agreed, the MODS here are way too trigger happy in merging threads and it makes them disappear and harder to follow. Lighten up guys.
As I said earlier in another thread, it's too much hassle for me to go through five threads of the exact same topic with the exactly same people saying the exactly same stuff in each thread.

I honestly can't understand the need to start a new thread for every thought that comes to mind, if one has something to say about Alonso moving to Ferrari and there is a thread about Alonso moving to Ferrari on bloody front page of the forum, use it. :)


The old "link please" always sounds a bit annoying, and shifts the proof back to those who keep up on this stuff. I see from below you were sincere in not believing this, but still, it is a glib and easy way out of the argument which I only ever see on this board. <sigh>

That should be viewed as a playfull comment these days.
Mind you, the rumour, at the moment has as much weight as a anorectic bumblebee.

[inimitablestoo]

No1 at Ferrari? I'm sure there'll be some1 at Ferrari ;)

You never know, if Alonso wins the title at McLaren and then goes to Ferrari, he could not only join Fangio in winning back-to-back titles for two different teams, but match the Argentine's record of doing it for three...

[OmarF1]

Well, even when I like Fernando as a driver, I find this news very strange due to the fact of the lack of diplomacy in the way Fernando talked about Ferrari in the past, even in the last race with Renault he said "If I Don't win I hope you guys do, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T PAINT THE CAR RED", haha and what about Kimi, Alonso seems to respect Kimi a lot, I think Alonso likes Kimi because the latter rarely speaks about anything but taking a dump before a race :D , well our world it's small and anything can happen, I would love to see those 2 racers in the same machinery indeed.

[Valve Bounce]

The pairing of Kimi and Alonso would be a great one, but like some have already expressed before it won't end well for sure... It seems that Alonso simply isn't a team player and problems will likely arise anywhere he'll drive...


Maybe Kimi has found a great snake bite cure, or even a snake repellant. :eek:

[Ranger]

even in the last race with Renault he said "If I Don't win I hope you guys do, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T PAINT THE CAR RED",
Really? I thought he said "If I Don't win I hope you guys do, Because you are the best". Matter of fact he did say that I'm sure. It is in last December's f1.com news stories.

[ShiftingGears]

"Is he really? He didn't compare that favorably in the past against Michael Schumacher and now it seems that Kimi is also getting the upper hand.

The pairing of Kimi and Alonso would be a great one, but like some have already expressed before it won't end well for sure... It seems that Alonso simply isn't a team player and problems will likely arise anywhere he'll drive..."

Well the fact that Ferrari only had to implement team orders after Monza shows how close hes been to his teammate. I don't think Irvine (barring injury) was ever that close to Schumacher come the Italian Grand prix.


"The old "link please" always sounds a bit annoying, and shifts the proof back to those who keep up on this stuff."
I don't see it as a way out of arguments, it's just to question the sources that they base their argument upon. And the argument that Massa is leaving is at the moment based purely on factless speculation, and Massa being seen with some Toyota fellas.
Alonso was seen at RBR...so theres as much credibility in a rumour that Alonso is looking to join RBR next season than there is to the Massa/Toyota rumour. So...until there's solid evidence, I don't buy it.
However I'd love to see a Raikkonen/Alonso team!

[wmcot]

Maybe Ron will want some money in return if he is to let Alonso depart.

Or maybe Ron will have to pay to dump him! ;)

[Priorat]

Well, if Alonso thinks he must be first driver just because he is the World Champion, he will must accept to be 2nd driver at Ferrari if KR takes the 2007 WDC.

[Garry Walker]

If alonso does join Ferrari, and I hope he doesnt, then be prepared for more crying next year from alonso and his fans on how unfair everything and everyone is to poor baby alonso.

[samuratt]

Maybe Alonso is looking at Ferrari what he has lacked of at McLaren: a fair treatment. And maybe Ferrari sings him because they really know what has happened at McLaren this year. After all Ferrari is the sort of company that uses every trick in the book to win!

Did not know that insulting drivers in this forum was allowed at all. Can we do the same with forums members? :D

[Priorat]

Maybe what Ferrari wants from his drivers is what McLaren has lacked of: a fair treatment. And maybe Ferrari doesn't sing Alonso because they really know what has happened at McLaren this year. After all Alonso is the sort of driver that uses every trick in the book to win!

[ioan]

I agree. Massa is very quick in qualifying, even as he was last year, but have we really seen anything wonderful from FM. He only seems to win when he is out front to begin with. But he made up almost no places when he started down the grid this year, (unlike Kimi and Micheal) and had some problems in the early races when he was behind the Macs. IMO he is not in KR, FA, MS's class when he needs to race from anything but the front.

I suppose you didn't watch the Oz and GB GPs this year! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Did not know that insulting drivers in this forum was allowed at all. Can we do the same with forums members? :D

Try it! :D

[Flat.tyres]

I suppose the question is whether there is a significant performance benefit in taking Alonso over Massa.

Personally, I think that Alonso has the edge but that's not to say Ferrari should take him.

Alonso has proved devisive and a dangerous man to have around a team if he doesn't get his own way. I think Ferrari would be mad to get rid of Massa for Alonso.

Kimi vs Alonso is a no go for Ferrari.

[jens]

If Alonso really demands No.1 status, then I can't see Ferrari hiring him not just in the shorter future, but also in the long run.

And I don't quite get, why Alonso wants to move to Ferrari if he can't stand intra-team rivalry?! Heck, he wants Fisichella to partner him again next year at Renault. Maybe in negotiations with Ferrari Alonso demands Badoer or Filippi as his new teammate-lapdog. :laugh:

[ClarkFan]

"If Ferrari is stupid enough to take Fernando and Fernando is stupid enough to go there, it will end up in tears."

Sums it all up really...it won't happen.

People have said all sorts of things about Jean Todt, but I don't recall anyone saying he is stupid.

Ferrari has a well-balance pairing now and they appear to get on reasonably well. If the car is fast, KR will be fast. In the past Todt has been patient and willing to let a new driver pairing develop. I don't expect to see Alonso at Ferrari next year.

ClarkFan

[samuratt]

Maybe what Ferrari wants from his drivers is what McLaren has lacked of: a fair treatment. And maybe Ferrari doesn't sing Alonso because they really know what has happened at McLaren this year. After all Alonso is the sort of driver that uses every trick in the book to win!

Quite an original post mate :up:

[leopard]

After all Ferrari is the sort of company that uses every trick in the book to win!

After all Alonso is the sort of driver that uses every trick in the book to win!
Then it would be fine and compatible, and they may have bigger chance on winning. It's rather difficult to win a game without implementing trick.

[janneppi]

People have said all sorts of things about Jean Todt, but I don't recall anyone saying he is stupid.

Ferrari has a well-balance pairing now and they appear to get on reasonably well. If the car is fast, KR will be fast. In the past Todt has been patient and willing to let a new driver pairing develop. I don't expect to see Alonso at Ferrari next year.

ClarkFan
The meat of this rumour is that Todt is supposedly going to get the boot from Ferrari, which would leave Massa hanging as his manager is Todt junior. :)

[wmcot]

I suppose the question is whether there is a significant performance benefit in taking Alonso over Massa.

Personally, I think that Alonso has the edge but that's not to say Ferrari should take him.

Alonso has proved devisive and a dangerous man to have around a team if he doesn't get his own way. I think Ferrari would be mad to get rid of Massa for Alonso.

Kimi vs Alonso is a no go for Ferrari.

I think Alonso has an advantage over Massa in the wet, but I still don't see him at Ferrari. My money is on Renault.

[Dzeidzei]

Maybe Alonso is looking at Ferrari what he has lacked of at McLaren: a fair treatment. And maybe Ferrari sings him because they really know what has happened at McLaren this year. After all Ferrari is the sort of company that uses every trick in the book to win!


Which book is that? The F2007 manual? Then the sentence applies to McLaren as well.




:)

[Mihai]

No1 at Ferrari in 08? We don't know yet who is no 1 at Ferrari in 07 ! :D

[Garry Walker]

Maybe Alonso is looking at Ferrari what he has lacked of at McLaren: a fair treatment. Yeah, He has lacked fair treatment indeed. How dare Ron not treat him as god and nr.1 and best ever person in world. Stupid Ron.


And maybe Ferrari sings him because they really know what has happened at McLaren this year.Ferrari know full well what a cheat and decadent person Alonso has shown himself to be. Ferrari wants nothing to do with a maggot like him.


I suppose you didn't watch the Oz and GB GPs this year! :rolleyes:
FM was very impressive at Silverstone (he probably deserved to win there), but less so at Oz for various reasons.