Nige on Louie

[Shifter]

http://www.sportasylum.com/page/FormulaBio/0,,10301~1029896,00.html?gclid=COWfhdD-2Y4CFSasGgod20OVBQ

Very interesting...thought I'd share.

[ioan]

What can I say. I completely agree with Nige.

After all those thousand of kms testing in an F1 car and in simulators he's been given a very competitive car, setup was done by his 2xWDC team mate! Everything was served to him on a golden plate! Most of the drivers on the grid would have been able to achieve what he achieved or even to do better.
It doesn't mean that he didn't do well just that it was that much easier than it is for Sutil for example, or as it was for AS or MS or many other drivers when they arrived into F1.

[jso1985]

he had way more help from what he actually needed

[ShiftingGears]

He's certainly very fortunate. But like all great drivers he capitalises on what equipment he has. But he wouldn't have the McLaren drive now if he hadn't asked Ron all those years ago, so he's made some of his luck.

However a few things that about that article...

"They are calling him the Tiger Woods of Formula One."
They being?... This is a phrase in the media that really means "we're calling him..."
"...a far cry from the rich kids that populate the sport."
How does that make him any different from drivers in formula one? I can't think of any F1 drivers that were rich kids...
It's a little irritating when they're trying to promote a formula one driver as unique when he really isn't.

[Flat.tyres]

What can I say. I completely agree with Nige.


I also agree. McLaren are a fantastic team and Lewis has been very impressive.

Still, it would have been nice to have the whole interview instead of just a soundbite.

[ArrowsFA1]

Very interesting...
Interesting indeed, but I'd take Mansell's comments with a pinch of salt. Why (he always liked to pose questions himself then answer them :p )? Because they merely serve to reinforce the tale of his own rise to F1, which was full of impossible challenges, painful injuries, lack of money etc etc etc all of which no-one ever in the history of the sport has ever experienced, let alone overcome; and yet somehow he overcame them with little or no help from anyone!!

Hamilton has not "lucked into a fabulous car". He has earned his place at McLaren through his efforts, results and achievements over the years. At any point he could have given up, or decided to to something else. He didn't. He has showed ability and dedication that meant firstly that Ron Dennis took note of him, then supported him, then put him in the McLaren race seat this year. That's not luck.

[Flat.tyres]

Interesting indeed, but I'd take Mansell's comments with a pinch of salt. Why (he always liked to pose questions himself then answer them :p )? Because they merely serve to reinforce the tale of his own rise to F1, which was full of impossible challenges, painful injuries, lack of money etc etc etc all of which no-one ever in the history of the sport has ever experienced, let alone overcome; and yet somehow he overcame them with little or no help from anyone!!

Hamilton has not "lucked into a fabulous car". He has earned his place at McLaren through his efforts, results and achievements over the years. At any point he could have given up, or decided to to something else. He didn't. He has showed ability and dedication that meant firstly that Ron Dennis took note of him, then supported him, then put him in the McLaren race seat this year. That's not luck.

Sorry for the last post but I was being a bit flippant with ioan.

As someone that understands the overall drift of the sport, if perhaps not the individual eddies, what do you make of Nigels words. I have tried to find the article instead of the quote but cannot. Nigel can sometimes be a bit single minded but I thought he would associate with Lewis?

We all know nigel is a single minded SOB but this sounds like sour grapes a bit and he has no reason unless he feels he will lose his place as the Lion heart? Surely this is not so petty?

[ArrowsFA1]

...what do you make of Nigels words...We all know nigel is a single minded SOB but this sounds like sour grapes a bit and he has no reason unless he feels he will lose his place as the Lion heart? Surely this is not so petty?
I don't think it's sour grapes as such, or even petty, but even 15 years after winning the WDC Noige still carries those chips around on his shoulders!! Watching him in GPM was enough to know that!!

He makes a fair point in that Hamilton has jumped straight into a competitive car, whereas the likes of Senna & Schumacher did not, nor did Mansell of course! But so what! Hamilton has more than justified that decision on the basis of the season so far.

[Rudy Tamasz]

I don't think it's sour grapes as such, or even petty, but even 15 years after winning the WDC Noige still carries those chips around on his shoulders!! Watching him in GPM was enough to know that!!

He makes a fair point in that Hamilton has jumped straight into a competitive car, whereas the likes of Senna & Schumacher did not, nor did Mansell of course! But so what! Hamilton has more than justified that decision on the basis of the season so far.

"So far" is the key word. I would rate somebody as an accomplished F1 driver only after he overcame a real problem (crash, mistake, ban etc.) and came back strong. Nige did plenty of that after losing title in '86, '87 and '91. Hill had to cope with Senna's death and a poor '95 season before he won the title. Even that Ferrari guy had to fight many nightmares, some of them of his own making, and came out victorious.

I think in this season Lewis is doing it just like every young man, based on raw energy and his belief in his immortality. I think his sophomore year will be more indicative of how good he actually is.

[Flat.tyres]

"So far" is the key word. I would rate somebody as an accomplished F1 driver only after he overcame a real problem (crash, mistake, ban etc.) and came back strong. Nige did plenty of that after losing title in '86, '87 and '91. Hill had to cope with Senna's death and a poor '95 season before he won the title. Even that Ferrari guy had to fight many nightmares, some of them of his own making, and came out victorious.

I think in this season Lewis is doing it just like every young man, based on raw energy and his belief in his immortality. I think his sophomore year will be more indicative of how good he actually is.

Real problems?

He has had the toughest year I think a Rookie ever has.

He was pitted against the current 2x champion in a very high profile team. He has had to put up with this partners antics, a team that has been thrown out of the championship, court cases, allergations over his personal life, the continuing in-team battle and accusations, being scrutinised like no other rookie and is still winning the championship.

What more could possibly be expected from him ?????

[ioan]

He makes a fair point in that Hamilton has jumped straight into a competitive car, whereas the likes of Senna & Schumacher did not, nor did Mansell of course! But so what! Hamilton has more than justified that decision on the basis of the season so far.

Whoa. You're comparing great results that others achieved with poor cars with Hamilton's results in the McCheat?

For what we know he might be doing worse than Yamamoto if he drove for Spyker (or Team India)!

He's only difficult race was Nurburgring and he made it a disaster while driving the best car. :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

For what we know he might be doing worse than Yamamoto if he drove for Spyker (or Team India)!

Maybe for all you know...don't be stupid.


He's only difficult race was Nurburgring and he made it a disaster while driving the best car. :rolleyes:

Oh no, a mistake from a rookie!

Look, he's leading the championship, and currently beating his 2xWDC teammate. And Alonso is a great driver, like it or not. He's obviously proved his worth.

[ioan]

Maybe for all you know...don't be stupid.



Oh no, a mistake from a rookie!

Look, he's leading the championship, and currently beating his 2xWDC teammate. And Alonso is a great driver, like it or not. He's obviously proved his worth.

It's all a matter of subjective opinion. So, keep abusive language for yourself.

[BDunnell]

Where was the abusive language there? I can't see any, even though some might say that your 'opinions' deserve it.

[Flat.tyres]

It's all a matter of subjective opinion. So, keep abusive language for yourself.

Well, with silly comments, it does leave you open ;)

What you cannot deny ioan is that he is having a fabulous debut season in the face of some difficult circumstances and is beating the 2x WDC, the same WDC that beat MS twice.

Surely if you are diminshing his achievements over Alonso, you are further degrading the achievements of MS.

[ShiftingGears]

It's all a matter of subjective opinion. So, keep abusive language for yourself.

And its wrong, simply. Unless you seriously think that Yamamoto is better than Alonso. Which I think is stupid (which is not abusive language, it's subjective opinion).

[ioan]

And its wrong, simply. Unless you seriously think that Yamamoto is better than Alonso. Which I think is stupid (which is not abusive language, it's subjective opinion).

Some people can't understand why I put Yamamoto there instead of Sutil for example, still it won't stop them from calling it stupid!
Should I explain why I exagerated using Yamamoto instead of Sutil?

Or maybe not bowing down in front of the "greatness" of Hamilton makes someone to look not as bright as Lewy's worshipers?!

Take a look at this season and see how he fared when his car wasn't better than the oposition's car.
He either didn't try or he was simply ordinary. Take your pick!

And then try to compare that with what some of the great names of this sport achieved in inferior equipment.

BTW try to leave subjectivity out of this reasoning exercise.

The above is aimed not only to the quoted person! ;)

[ioan]

And its wrong, simply. Unless you seriously think that Yamamoto is better than Alonso. Which I think is stupid (which is not abusive language, it's subjective opinion).

I almost forgot.
I don't think that Yamamoto is better than Alonso, I simply don't know it. But I do know that Alonso is overall better than Hamilton, and man I'm no Alonso fan.

[OTA]

I think LH is better than Yamamoto :) , but to say that LH has had the most difficult season of any rookie in history is a bit out of order in my opinion. LH is a great talent, but as any other rookie he still has to go the distance.

Just to compare it with FA and Kimi for instance, when they took the start in Aus 01 they had barely driven an F1(just a test with a Minardi, and a couple I think with Renault in FA's case). They had just 2 seasons after they left Karting and they had little, if any acces to simulators and all those little toys. Also they had little data from team mates to study. So LH came into F1 with a significant better position that either of them. May be if Kimi or FA would had jump in the Ferrari...

Having said that, I do beleive that LH is the real deal, but not the only deal.

Cheers
David

[Flat.tyres]

I think LH is better than Yamamoto :) , but to say that LH has had the most difficult season of any rookie in history is a bit out of order in my opinion. LH is a great talent, but as any other rookie he still has to go the distance.

Just to compare it with FA and Kimi for instance, when they took the start in Aus 01 they had barely driven an F1(just a test with a Minardi, and a couple I think with Renault in FA's case). They had just 2 seasons after they left Karting and they had little, if any acces to simulators and all those little toys. Also they had little data from team mates to study. So LH came into F1 with a significant better position that either of them. May be if Kimi or FA would had jump in the Ferrari...

Having said that, I do beleive that LH is the real deal, but not the only deal.

Cheers
David

David

I don't think it's out of order but a fair comment.

I agree that McLaren have a lot of facilities that have helped but I was talking about the actual situation within McLaren and F1 at the moment.

The problem team mate, the FIAsco with MC, the backbiting, the pressure of racing against a team mate with obvious emnity, the publicity and media frenzy etc.

When Alonso came in, there was no real focus on him but Lewis has been in the middle of a hugely difficult situation since before day 1.

[trumperZ06]

;) Hhmmm... this thread seems to be wandering around... thanks to ioan !!!

Now if you want a "read" on good ole Nige's character... go ask Mario Andretti, who was his team-mate for a year or two !!!

:p : IMO... Nige's comments on LH is simply "Sour Grapes"... from a man who resents others who do well.

[ShiftingGears]

Some people can't understand why I put Yamamoto there instead of Sutil for example, still it won't stop them from calling it stupid!
Should I explain why I exagerated using Yamamoto instead of Sutil?

Or maybe not bowing down in front of the "greatness" of Hamilton makes someone to look not as bright as Lewy's worshipers?!

Take a look at this season and see how he fared when his car wasn't better than the oposition's car.
He either didn't try or he was simply ordinary. Take your pick!
Like coming second in Bahrain while Alonso finished 5th? Pretty ordinary...
I'm not idolising Hamilton by any means. But the fact that you're devaluing him beating his 2x WDC teammate because the McLaren has been the best car this season, is foolish.


And then try to compare that with what some of the great names of this sport achieved in inferior equipment.
Well - Schumacher had greater pace than his 3 x WDC teammate, Nelson Piquet, in the races in 1991 that he was in Bennetton. So yes, using that bit of info, I can compare.


BTW try to leave subjectivity out of this reasoning exercise.

The above is aimed not only to the quoted person! ;)

Practice what you preach ;)

[ShiftingGears]

I almost forgot.
I don't think that Yamamoto is better than Alonso, I simply don't know it. But I do know that Alonso is overall better than Hamilton, and man I'm no Alonso fan.

I think so too at the moment. Hamilton needs to learn how to set up the car better, if indeed Alonso beating him is down to Alonso withholding (rightfully!) his setup information. I'll wait for another wet GP to judge Hamilton's wet weather abilities.

[ShiftingGears]

;) Hhmmm... this thread seems to be wandering around... thanks to ioan !!!

Now if you want a "read" on good ole Nige's character... go ask Mario Andretti, who was his team-mate for a year or two !!!

:p : IMO... Nige's comments on LH is simply "Sour Grapes"... from a man who resents others who do well.

I agree - he's a fantastic driver as long as you don't have to listen to him :p :

[fandango]

I've only just watched that interview snippet now. It follows the standard "well, in my day" old F1 driver line. It's true, though, that LH has been lucky to get a good car, but that doesn't take anything away from him. He still had to get out there and drive it.

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the impression Nige may have been tippling on a sherry or two before the interview?