True Greatness beckons for LH

[Mintexmemory]

As a person with a life I only occasionally look at this & other F1 fora. It has become apparent that finally the Spanish have something to be proud of in terms of world champions (never at soccer!) and can't stand the prospect of it only lasting for 2 years. Hence the disproportionate spanish postings denegrating LH. I think that if they weren't losing their continence over the prospect of the Incredible Sulk being beaten by a rookie then they'd be more laid back regarding LH.
I'm hoping that LH is still 1 point ahead going into the last race and then like all great champs of the last 20 years punts Alonso off to win the title :) Of course he can't start doing that until Kimi is mathematically unable to take the title. It's gonna be a tight call but I want to see the post race press conference in those circumstances - more entertaining than anything else this year!

Remember, 'Moseley was NOT right' (paraphrase of his Dad's fascist election slogan)

[ShiftingGears]

I can't say punting your rivals off intentionally to win is a sign of any greatness. You don't even have to be a good driver to do that. I'd much rather the championship be won via brilliant, tough, yet fair racing.

[Mintexmemory]

Good enough for Senna and Schumacher! Perhaps the FIA should've done something about that rather than wimping out every time. I share your desire for tough fair racing but with the guys involved in this scenario you can have one or the other! Remember Alonso's whinge at Massa for driving into him when 'defending' his line. I just enjoy seeing the biter bit

[ChrisS]

As a person with a life I only occasionally look at this & other F1 fora

Insult all other posters, always a good way to start a topic :up:

[Flat.tyres]

Theugs

I don't have much respect for Alonso either but this is a thread about Hamilton :D

[kalasend]

LH has been maintaining a shiny public image so far. And it will not appear well if he punts FA off at the last race. He should have done the punting more often so he wouldn't get all the finger pointing when he does that at the crucial moment.

[Flat.tyres]

If that were true, he would just have maintained track position last week and had them both off maintaining his lead.

[OmarF1]

Excuse me Sr. where's the greatness on taking somebody off the track? you are talking about cars crashing, no matter how safe an F1 is there's always the risk of somebody to get hurt or to even die. If Hamilton would to what you think as "greatness" that would taint his title even more than the Stepneygate issue. and I firmly believe that Hamilton it's an excepcional talent to start a surely succesful career this way.

I admire Senna, Prost and Schumacher but what they did taking somebody off the track was just plain wrong, there's a difference in touching each other and race hard and other to show your fear by impeding to compete to another driver.

[Flat.tyres]

Omar

What are you talking about as you have me well and trully confused. Who has Hamilton taken out :confused:

May I suggest for the challenged of thought out there that you use Alonso's driving example last week as the benchmark before even considering any of Schumachers moves to classify what taking out a driver is.

Than come back and put the whining to bed :D

[OmarF1]

Flat.Tyres, please read carefully again my previous post.

First of all my reply wasn't directed at you or any comment you have made, in fact, I was talking about MintexMemory's comment about the "greatness" of taking someone off to win.

second, In my reply I never said that Hamilton HAS taken some other driver off, he hasn't, or at least I haven't seen him doing it, due to the fact that I only have seen him race at GP2 and now F1, I knew that he was British F3 Champion in '05, but that's it.

third, thankfully, I'm not challenged of thought and Alonso did not take anybody off in the Spa race, at least he did not took Hamilton off the race, plus I consider myself an F1 in general fan, not a fanboy.

fourth, I was using some cuestionable moves by Prost, Senna and Schumacher as an example of my dislike of winning in a machiavellic way, even when this particular moves on the track by them does not change my image of such great drivers to my eyes, I have no agenda in bashing Schumy, Prost, Senna, Alonso, Hamilton or anyone.

Fifth, my comment was in disapprobal of the opportunity of Hamilton to win his championship "legend-style" by taking someone off, I was not stating that he already has done it. so please my friend please learn to read before you make such disfortunate comments about me.

Cheers!

[wmcot]

Excuse me Sr. where's the greatness on taking somebody off the track? you are talking about cars crashing, no matter how safe an F1 is there's always the risk of somebody to get hurt or to even die. If Hamilton would to what you think as "greatness" that would taint his title even more than the Stepneygate issue. and I firmly believe that Hamilton it's an excepcional talent to start a surely succesful career this way.

I admire Senna, Prost and Schumacher but what they did taking somebody off the track was just plain wrong, there's a difference in touching each other and race hard and other to show your fear by impeding to compete to another driver.
Refresh my memory - when did Prost and Schumacher punt someone off and win a championship? I remember Senna punting Prost twice (lost one WDC, won one). Schumacher only lost all his points and any hope of the WDC.

[Juppe]

Here you go, wmcot! (Don't know about Prost, though)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Schumacher#1994.E2.80.931995:_World_Champi onship_years



With Schumacher leading by a single point going into the final race in Australia, Schumacher made a mistake and left the track. After rejoining, he collided with Hill and crashed out of the race. Furthermore, the damage to Hill's car from the collision forced him to retire.[33] Thus, he became the first German to win the Formula One World Championship.[3]

[wmcot]

Here you go, wmcot! (Don't know about Prost, though)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Schumacher#1994.E2.80.931995:_World_Champi onship_years
Oh, sorry. I was just thinking about 1997. 1994 wasn't as obvious as 1997 and I've never heard MS admit that '94 was planned as he has done for '97.

[Ranger]

Oh, sorry. I was just thinking about 1997. 1994 wasn't as obvious as 1997 and I've never heard MS admit that '94 was planned as he has done for '97.
And that makes it any better?

Inbetween the last 2 races of that season, Hill and Schumacher shook hands as a sporting gesture saying that the title wouldn't be decided by a collision (theres a picture of it), and what happened?

Talk and media fodder aside, the fact of the matter is that collisions that decide titles are unsportsmanly and whether attempts to decide the outcome of a title as such are successful or not does not detract from the action itself.

[wmcot]

And that makes it any better?

Inbetween the last 2 races of that season, Hill and Schumacher shook hands as a sporting gesture saying that the title wouldn't be decided by a collision (theres a picture of it), and what happened?

Talk and media fodder aside, the fact of the matter is that collisions that decide titles are unsportsmanly and whether attempts to decide the outcome of a title as such are successful or not does not detract from the action itself.
No, not better. I just wonder if it was deliberately planned in the few seconds that everything took place?

MS did admit that what happened in '97 was not right, but he didn't feel guilt about it since that was the way F1 was when he came into racing. He learned it from watching Senna (and being punted off by him a time or two.) We can only wonder if Senna had lived how many '89 and '90 repeats he would have had.

Still, it doesn't make it right and nobody wants a championship to end that way. F1 should take a rule from ALMS and immediately punish rough or dangerous driving. I've seen time penalties up to 5 minutes given out this year.

[Ranger]

MS did admit that what happened in '97 was not right, but he didn't feel guilt about it since that was the way F1 was when he came into racing. He learned it from watching Senna (and being punted off by him a time or two.) We can only wonder if Senna had lived how many '89 and '90 repeats he would have had.
Personally I wouldn't waste my time, nor should anyone for that matter! and IMO there was nothing wrong with what Senna did in 1989.

Still, it doesn't make it right and nobody wants a championship to end that way. F1 should take a rule from ALMS and immediately punish rough or dangerous driving. I've seen time penalties up to 5 minutes given out this year.
In V8 Supercars they are pretty strict on dangerous driving (you get an eventual black flag for blocking) but this still doesn't prevent dangerous incidents from happening. I think F1 is already pretty decent at awarding driving penalties where due, and in F1, drivers don't need a further incentive not to come close to someone, because the cars are barely close half the time anyway.

[Priorat]

wmcot[quote]:Refresh my memory - when did Prost and Schumacher punt someone off and win a championship? I remember Senna punting Prost twice (lost one WDC, won one). Schumacher only lost all his points and any hope of the WDC.

In 1989 Senna didn't punt Prost. It was Prost who intentionally clashed against Senna to avoid being overtaken.

[ShiftingGears]

I've always thought that Suzuka '89 was a racing incident, no intention. Afterall Senna came from a long way back to make that corner.

[Priorat]

But if you see the view from the air, Prost line was going to the grass before the chicane if Senna had not been there.
It was similar to the Schumacher-Villeneuve move in Jerez 1997.

[ShiftingGears]

"But if you see the view from the air..."

Do you have a link to a chopper cam?

[ShiftingGears]

Also interestingly, it appears that many on this forum would still prefer Alonso winning over Hamilton.

[Priorat]

quote:"But if you see the view from the air..."

Do you have a link to a chopper cam?

It was repeated many times on race day so I still remember. Don't have any link.

[jso1985]

what? punting your rivals is a sign of greatness?

I'd rather not comment on such dumb comments...

but as we are here already... I don't have anything agaisnt LH or his fans, but honestly wishing he punts out Alonso to win the WDC is juts blind stupid hate

[Flat.tyres]

Flat.Tyres, please read carefully again my previous post.

First of all my reply wasn't directed at you or any comment you have made, in fact, I was talking about MintexMemory's comment about the "greatness" of taking someone off to win.

second, In my reply I never said that Hamilton HAS taken some other driver off, he hasn't, or at least I haven't seen him doing it, due to the fact that I only have seen him race at GP2 and now F1, I knew that he was British F3 Champion in '05, but that's it.

third, thankfully, I'm not challenged of thought and Alonso did not take anybody off in the Spa race, at least he did not took Hamilton off the race, plus I consider myself an F1 in general fan, not a fanboy.

fourth, I was using some cuestionable moves by Prost, Senna and Schumacher as an example of my dislike of winning in a machiavellic way, even when this particular moves on the track by them does not change my image of such great drivers to my eyes, I have no agenda in bashing Schumy, Prost, Senna, Alonso, Hamilton or anyone.

Fifth, my comment was in disapprobal of the opportunity of Hamilton to win his championship "legend-style" by taking someone off, I was not stating that he already has done it. so please my friend please learn to read before you make such disfortunate comments about me.

Cheers!

Omar

You are quite right. God knows what I was on about and I 100% retract my last post. Sorry.

[OmarF1]

Omar

You are quite right. God knows what I was on about and I 100% retract my last post. Sorry.

Don't worry mate, No hard feelings, have a nice day

[Garry Walker]

Refresh my memory - when did Prost punt someone off and win a championship?
Gladly.1989.

[samuratt]

Also interestingly, it appears that many on this forum would still prefer Alonso winning over Hamilton.

Why it should be the other way around? :S

[Flat.tyres]

Why it should be the other way around? :S

Alonso has been at the heart of the cheating fiasco, Lewis wasn't.

Alonso has been whining like a baby all year, Lewis has not.

Alonso has attempted to blackmail his team to get an unfair advantage over his team-mate, Lewis has not.

Alonso cannot take the pressure of a Rookie in the team where Lewis seems to be holding up to the pressure of having a 2X WDC pretty well.

Why would anyone want to see a Champion that is partly responsible for having his team thrown out of the championship, whines, gets beaten by a Rookie, blackmails and tries to win by the team ordering his team mate to let him rather than proving himself on track?

[donKey jote]

Ok, I'll bite... now a blinkered view from the "other side":


Alonso has been at the heart of the cheating fiasco, Lewis wasn't.
Silly me thought Coughlin and Stepney were at the heart of the cheating fiasco. :dozey:


Alonso has been whining like a baby all year, Lewis has not.
Lewis "at the end of the day I have a big 2 on my car" Hamilton started with a massive whine after being pwned in Monaco, and it all snowballed from there, culminating in his and his dad's massive whine at Hungary, which cost his team the Hungary points, and triggered the ultimate split.


Alonso has attempted to blackmail his team to get an unfair advantage over his team-mate, Lewis has not.
Alonso had a heated discussion in private with Ron on Hungary race day. Lewis had a heated discussion with Ron over the radio on Hungary qualy day.


Alonso cannot take the pressure of a Rookie in the team where Lewis seems to be holding up to the pressure of having a 2X WDC pretty well.
Can he not? He seemed pretty cool in Spa. He seems to take the pressure of fighting alone against his windmills quite well.


Why would anyone want to see a Champion that is partly responsible for having his team thrown out of the championship, whines, gets beaten by a Rookie, blackmails and tries to win by the team ordering his team mate to let him rather than proving himself on track?
Because if he wins (and I have no doubt that he won't :vader: ), he will have proven himself on the track, against all odds. That's why. And because my english background somehow makes me root for the underdog ;) :p :

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Crypt]

The fastest way to jinx a driver is to call him the greates before he is.

Once he does what Kimi did at Suzuka in 2005, I may give him a eye.

[jso1985]

Why would anyone want to see a Champion that is partly responsible for having his team thrown out of the championship?

according to the WMSC the whole team was responsible, and if you want the one who had the biggest fault on the mess it was Coughlan not Alonso



proving himself on track?

guess you didn't watch the Italian, Belgian and other GP's this season

[wmcot]

according to the WMSC the whole team was responsible, and if you want the one who had the biggest fault on the mess it was Coughlan not Alonso


I think that's why Flat.tyres used the words "partly responsible." There are a number of people at McLaren who are known to be responsible and I'm sure many more who haven't been named.

[Flat.tyres]

Is anyone apart from me looking forward with even more anticipation than normal to Fuji.

Neither Alonso nor Hamilton has raced there as far as I know so it will be a good test from a standing start as to who can get the best out of the team, car and themselves.

Is the only reason Alonso is still in touch his prior knowledge of circuits as some here suggest by attributing Hamiltons success to Alonso's settings?

This could be one of the best races of the year.

[Garry Walker]

Alonso has been at the heart of the cheating fiasco, Lewis wasn't.

Alonso has been whining like a baby all year, Lewis has not.

Alonso has attempted to blackmail his team to get an unfair advantage over his team-mate, Lewis has not.

Alonso cannot take the pressure of a Rookie in the team where Lewis seems to be holding up to the pressure of having a 2X WDC pretty well.

Why would anyone want to see a Champion that is partly responsible for having his team thrown out of the championship, whines, gets beaten by a Rookie, blackmails and tries to win by the team ordering his team mate to let him rather than proving himself on track? While alonsos behaviour has been the sort that would embarrass a thief, Lewis hasnt been so innocent as he tries to portray himself to be. His comments at Monaco were not very good for the team and at Hungary he did screw Alonso deliberately.