Fuji - Which team is it going to favor?

[CaptainRaiden]

As we have seen in the last three races, the momentum can swing either ways between Mclaren and Ferrari depending upon the track and their aerodynamic setup. It seems Ferrari don't have any answer to Mclaren's low downforce setup, whereas Mclaren seems to struggle on medium to fast speed tracks where Ferrari have been dominating this year.

Here is the circuit diagram for Fuji: http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/784/circuit_diagram.html

Now, since Fuji is a brand new track for most of the drivers and teams, what do you think is going to be the outcome? I think this track again could favor ferrari, but I'm not too sure.

[ShiftingGears]

Well turn 3 and the 100R are the only medium-high speed corners on the circuit, and they're the type of corners that seem to suit Ferrari...

My bet is on McLaren. Hope I'm wrong though.

[seppefan]

ITV tv reckoned ferrari as they have the longer wheelbase for all three gps.....

[Flat.tyres]

Toyota ;)

[F1boat]

I guess McLaren... I hope Ferrari.

[Flat.tyres]

Well turn 3 and the 100R are the only medium-high speed corners on the circuit, and they're the type of corners that seem to suit Ferrari...

My bet is on McLaren. Hope I'm wrong though.

300R?

It's going to be an interesting race.

You have a main straight that is practically a mile long followed by a killer on the brakes. Could possibly see some ducking and diving here.

Rain could be a factor as well.

The trick with Fuji is how much time do you compromise on the corners for the opportunity to slip on the straight. The fastest lapping car here may not be the fastest race car.

I suspect that it will favour the Ferrari especially with Bridgestones experience of the track but not by much.

[555-04Q2]

Watch out for Mclaren and Lewis Hamilton for the victory.

[seppefan]

I guess McLaren... I hope Ferrari.


Why do you guess Mclaren? illuminate please

[osg]

Ferrari...... Massa will run interference for the final 3 races, Kimi wins all 3 and the title in the process by virtue of Massa finishing 2nd in all 3 ;)

This is what i pray for each night before going to sleep........

[Hawkmoon]

Brundle said he thinks that Japan and China should suit the Reds with Brazil a toss-up.

I think he could have a point. The track from Turn 2 right through to Turn 10 looks pretty quick. The rest of the lap looks like the sort of low-speed Mickey Mouse rubbish that drivers and fans alike hate.

So I'm going for advantage Reds.....just.

The pitstrait

[janneppi]

Kimi said Fuji shouldn't suit Ferrari, at least not as much as spa did.

[gm99]

I'd say McLaren on account of the long straight, where McLaren seem to have the advantage over Ferrari (like at Indy and Monza). Of the McLaren drivers, I'd go for Hamilton, because the track is new to everyone so he doesn't have the disadvantage of not having run on it in an F1 car (not that that slowed him down much at Indy, Canada and Hungary).

I wouldn't be surprised to see a short-fuelled Toyota towards the front of the grid - surely it will be an important race for the Japanese company at their home track and they have used this tactic before to impress (Trulli's pole at Indy in '05).

[ShiftingGears]

300R?


Looking at the track map the 300R is taken flat, so I don't think it would favour any car setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_3i4dbT1Co

Thats the only onboard I could find that wasnt a playstation game.

The mickey mouse section is weirdly cambered, and it looks like the cars have to take some unusual lines through it.

As been said, the chicane is absolutely awful.

[wedge]

I'd say McLaren on account of the long straight, where McLaren seem to have the advantage over Ferrari (like at Indy and Monza). Of the McLaren drivers, I'd go for Hamilton, because the track is new to everyone so he doesn't have the disadvantage of not having run on it in an F1 car (not that that slowed him down much at Indy, Canada and Hungary).


Pretty much agree with you.

You have long straights and massive braking zones and some mickey mouse bits that'll suit the McLaren. They have been the cars to beat on compromising tracks except Spa which has long straights and minimal low speed corners.

Shanghai will suit Ferrari and Interlagos will again favour the McLarens greater mechanical grip.

[Flat.tyres]

300r because a car needs to be planted at speed and the Ferrari looks better at that. Particulaly Lewis looks a bit tail happy on some of the faster corners (or fast curves if you like) where it suits his sliding style in the med and low corners.


I'm dying to see what the "Rookie" will do into the first corner. :D

[jens]

Well. We will get a better impression of the track, when cars are actually racing on it rather than from a map, but I think it looks more like a Ferrari track, but I reckon McLaren might be closer to Ferrari than at Spa or Istanbul. What I have noticed, then McLaren has looked closer to Ferrari in qualis than in the races - arguably Ferrari has had problems in warming up their tyres during one lap. So McLaren chance can be qualifying (and then blocking in the race) - they could try putting a lap or two less fuel on board for Q3.

Btw, I can't see Toyota trying a surprise with low-fuelled Q3. They are lucky to make it into Top10 and they are quite clearly slower than Ferraris and McLarens, also BMWs, so they must have fuel just for 1 or 2 laps if they want to make it into Top5 or something. But that would be useless. Also last year at Suzuka Toyota pitted as "late" as on laps 11 and 12. Similar strategy might put them up to 4th row at best on the grid. Last year Toyota was good at Suzuka partly thanks to Bridgestone tyres, but this year due to same tyres and also engine freeze, there isn't that significant difference on different circuits.

Btw, Honda promised to bring out a new update for Fuji - wonder whether that would help them. :p :

[Sleeper]

I'm going to say McLaren, Fuji seems to demand the same compramises as Indy, and we all know how that one went.

[kalasend]

I think McLaren is going to benefit from the painfully slow complex and then either be faster on the straight or can hang on to a Ferrari via slipstream. 2 out of 3 sections of the track will see McLaren stronger than Ferrari. I would tip LH to be the winner here.

[nigelred5]

I agree that the McLArens will probably have the best sector 3 times, while I suspect ferrari should have a better sector one and two, but coming out of sector three will be the key.

[truefan72]

I'm going to say McLaren, Fuji seems to demand the same compramises as Indy, and we all know how that one went.

the consens is that the McClaren's should do well. But I'd be surprised if the Ferrari's weren't competitive. The track is more suited to McClarens. Suzuka would have suited the Ferrari's.

Also look for a good race from the Spykers... don't laugh, I'm serious.

[velo]

Let's see ... 12 races in there were 4 drivers with 3 wins each, 2 teams with 6 wins each. Since then, 2 of those drivers and each team has picked up a win, so clearly it's Massa's or Hamilton's turn. Since China seems to favor the Ferrari more I'll go with Hamilton this time. Random obs: what happened to Suzuka? That's a much more charismatic track than Fuji.

[ShiftingGears]

Toyota paid more to have the Jap GP at Fuji. But its going to alternate between Suzuka and Fuji after 2009, I think.

[millencolin]

Red Bull and mainly Mark Webber... he will see flying my Aussie flag in the grandstand at turn one and he will raise his game :p :

well, thats what i want to see happen at my first ever live gp.... extremely doubt it will happen... but motorsport is a funny game

[Sleeper]

the consens is that the McClaren's should do well. But I'd be surprised if the Ferrari's weren't competitive. The track is more suited to McClarens. Suzuka would have suited the Ferrari's.

Also look for a good race from the Spykers... don't laugh, I'm serious.
Yeah, since I posted that I realise that Ferrari were a bit lost on why they were so far behind McLaren from Monaco to Indy, but cured that so it will probably be very close, but still with McLaren infront.

And I wont laugh, apparantley Sutil had a very good race at Spa (wishing I hadnt missed that).

[Garry Walker]

Unfortunately Fuji will be a track that suits McLaren more than Ferrari. :(

[Tazio]

Is there any elevation change at the Fuji track?

[ShiftingGears]

Tazio - Yes there is. This is a fairly accurate Gran Turismo simulation of the circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvStOF6Ki60

[Tazio]

Tazio - Yes there is. This is a fairly accurate Gran Turismo simulation of the circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvStOF6Ki60
Thanks !!
I think that track will favor whoever can put their car on the front row!

[CaptainRaiden]

You know, after looking at some of the videos, I have a gut feeling the track is going to suit Ferrari. Mainly because it's not completely flat out, and so the low downforce aerodynamic setup is out of the question. It has got some medium to fast corners and some slow corners as well, which to some extent(but not totally) are like Magny Cours, where Ferrari was dominant this year.

Also, I don't know if anyone has noticed, but strangely enough Ferrari is fastest in a straight line in their mid downforce setup, whereas Mclaren are the fastest cars in a low downforce setup, so that again could favor Ferrari on that loooong straight. Still speculating, still not sure, but this is what I could think of thus far. :look: :p

[Hawkmoon]

I think a lot will depend on where the most time can be gained. If more time is to be had through the first part of the lap, the fast sweeping stuff, then the Ferrari will be strong. If more time is to be gained in the last part, the twisty stuff, then the McLaren will probably be the better car.

It might be a pretty good circuit. I wasn't happy that Suzuka got it in the neck and didn't think much of the track when I first saw the layout but after watching a couple of videos I think the possibility of a good race is definently there. Here's hoping!

[ioan]

They say it's a medium downforce circuit, at least for BMW.
Very interesting read:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=32886

[jso1985]

I think both cars will perform equally

[King Stromba]

I think Ferrari have been working hard on their mechanical grip. The failures at monza were 'possibly' new suspension components, perhaps that couldnt take the bashing on the curbs as they maybe hadnt been tested in such conditions before. It was all very cloak and dagger with kimi taking the blame for an obvious mechanical failure, and massa first confirming then denying the prolem was the same as kimis.

On the ferrari boards someone pointed out that in the 'twisty' middle section at spa kimi was consistently the fastest driver, but was running the least wing, suggesting to me that ferrari has found mechnical grip in testing. Ferrari has said that badoer has been working on both mechanical grip and set up work.

The middle section at spa is less twisty than the last part of this track, but my gut feeling is that ferrari will be failry strong here, and might suprise mclaren. The curbs are low so shouldnt hurt them too much. The track looks very much like Magny Course to me. The corners will be faster than they look, as the track is very wide.

Im going to stick my neck out and say that in a dry race, ferrari will be as convincing as they were in spa.

[Tazio]

I think Ferrari have been working hard on their mechanical grip. The failures at monza were 'possibly' new suspension components, perhaps that couldnt take the bashing on the curbs as they maybe hadnt been tested in such conditions before. It was all very cloak and dagger with kimi taking the blame for an obvious mechanical failure, and massa first confirming then denying the prolem was the same as kimis.

On the ferrari boards someone pointed out that in the 'twisty' middle section at spa kimi was consistently the fastest driver, but was running the least wing, suggesting to me that ferrari has found mechnical grip in testing. Ferrari has said that badoer has been working on both mechanical grip and set up work.

The middle section at spa is less twisty than the last part of this track, but my gut feeling is that ferrari will be failry strong here, and might suprise mclaren. The curbs are low so shouldnt hurt them too much. The track looks very much like Magny Course to me. The corners will be faster than they look, as the track is very wide.

Im going to stick my neck out and say that in a dry race, ferrari will be as convincing as they were in spa.
"LONG LIVE THE KING"

[Crypt]

McLaren is due for the gremlins to come out and blow up something on the cars.

So, Ferrari :D

[King Stromba]

The more i see the track, the less it looks like hungary, indy, canada or monza....


.....and the more it looks like magney cours or turkey. The 'twisty' section at the end is more like the end of silverstone, and kimi was awesome through there. The last corner looks very much like woodcote.


Also looks very smooth and the curbs are almost non existant.


I cant see at all why people say its like indy. The 'slow' corners are actually medium speed stuff. Three of the last 5 corners will be 3-4th gear i think.

But what do i know? These teams spend millions on track information, so im waiting to be proved wrong.

[ShiftingGears]

Kimi is 3 tenths up on Massa and half a second up on Alonso in first practice.

[leopard]

Did this race determine Alonso's title last year? It's quite possible to make its repetition, go up or give up.

[ArrowsFA1]

Oooops, wrong thread :D

[Tazio]

Did this race determine Alonso's title last year? It's quite possible to make its repetition, go up or give up.
Yes it did (Shumacher retired with blown engine)
And, yes it might!

[jens]

McLaren was quicker than Ferrari in qualifying as expected, but it's worth noting that Ferrari was very close - just a couple of tenths behind. And Ferrari is usually more competitive in race conditions. So we might see an interesting battle in the race.